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tv   Worlds Apart  RT  October 29, 2023 2:30pm-3:01pm EDT

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solutions. what does this crisis mean for the international system? well, to discuss that i'm now enjoying by demetrius, so slow deputation, director of the center for comprehensive if your opinion and international studies are the higher school of economics in moscow. demetrius good to see you again. thank you very much for your time. hello, side of nice to meet you. nice to see you or was pleasure. thank you. now, let me 1st ask, you know, there's a schooler but is a colleague of mine as a media professional and for our audience, i want to mention that demetrius also, hosting a jo political show called great game on one of russia's biggest channels. um i think is media professionals we have just witnessed a major change in the and how will the media currents flow because um, uh, the reality in guys of was so unexpected. and so shocking that i think you caught many western media of god, then they were put in the to situation when they actually have to report on death
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reality, rather than trying to preemptively shape the the frame. and so in that case, very rare case, reality seems to be trumping perceptions. what does it mean in terms of the global uh, informational award? because whether we like it or not, their, their reason battle of narrative is going on. well like a sudden, i think this is a very significant developments in the west on media and several science. first, of course the western media, it was called of god because we all remember us, 3 weeks ago, jake solve them. the national security advisor, united states, tried to convince everyone that the middle east was the most peaceful position within decades right on the west of need. it seemed to believe that they deliberately tried to ignore the question of these available is dino conflict. and we'll just kind of be off the brackets thing with forget about it and focus um
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different things. second points uh, i think that was going. busy on him, garza now is uh, putting the western media in a very awkward position. and the west is basically losing the global information more because israel unquestionably is a part of bustle of the west. but today, after experiencing this. busy looking at back there was that back, israel in it's term is conducting a process is on such a scale that you can't really present that support shape the narrative. busy of a justified abrupt. busy and the use of force and justified self defense. you, you kind of do it. and this really boats, the media universe walk with position. they have to report on what's going on. instead of trying to shape the narrative of easily all being on the good side of history, i wonder how do you understand the math?
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half was government seeming resolve to take gods and by force because all hughes, fiber and rhetoric benjamin netanyahu is known as a highly calculating politician. he cannot be ignorant of all the possible repercussions of such a move military civilian economic international. and by proceeding with a military operation, is there a wouldn't be destroying the very status for the itself, how to create and maintain why take such as huge risk as well? uh 1st i, i think you have the leaves, its uh, 2 rolled cheese political existence. you know, because people and where to ask questions, how it all would happen. people both of the blame on the a by the way, and because government personally cleaning quite right, lit up that's uh certain in the gaithersburg, the goals at the level of political leadership. and they actually made this
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a situation possible. so they be are the political responsibility in order to avoid paying the price for. busy that i think about an yackel was to the soul, the caught on the golf live in it. bigger goals live. which key is now trying to deliberately create the bigger cause list, i think is a conflict with euro and what we are seeing. and i think this is over madison phones, yahoo is trying to do to shift the narrative to, you know, completely see the narrative claiming that what is going on because nothing to do with the goal is the name is really conflict. bruce. that the real reason before uh the uh for the crisis is your app. but yeah, the, i mean, you're good to hear something because i think this is a very interesting analysis of the assignments done. having a war with around which is still a state actor. therefore, it's far more responsible and in some ways more predictable. what suit
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a israel's current situation? because on the one hand you don't have to in wave gaza as they have been suggesting or have been talking about. but on the other hand, it essentially, it allows them to have a more but this sort of an easier way. is that what you're suggesting? well, it's not necessarily easy. it was a certainly, it'd be go more of a war on several fronts because it would definitely involve kids belie and the level. well, in general, it was also editable. it seems to be involved the united states, and i say it on yellows. calculus is that if there is such a such an escalation on the wall from just if you're a local conflict in gaza to a broader conflict at least with. busy be around, you know, brocks is and at the maximum with itself, the united states would have to engage. and that would, you know,
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completely switch beverly was that, that shouldn't, for all, why actually because the back from the, what's the use of them is a proxy more. but a proxy word that will be filled out for a rather than by israel, by the united states. it's the same thing, but shifting the, the burden onto the bigger actor. you have uh, with the help of the united states and ethan yahoo calls to prevail in this brought a conflict with your on them eventually a term, a, you know, turn out as and when they're in this ground can foundation against, you know, remote meaning. they just talked about with on the floors but you know, reducing the iranian outrage and abuse lambs. busy the neighboring regions, neighboring regions for uh, for israel envelope i think it is very significant because ease of elk is long positions. you know, multiple is damian's, most ada spots iran as the major as
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a special for for itself. so the bailing. busy with these eggs, the spanish will thread, will make me the whole. there we are, you know, one of the biggest winters in the survey and the history instead of a loser. because of domestic political struggles and frictions actually made this, that, that bike, almost possible. i think this explain skills got on behaviors and don't want to ask her about the is rarely posting and problem, which is this the for so many days that i think we all have become somewhat detached and desensitize to what is actually happening on the ground. and what is happening on the ground is it is essentially a huge human pressure cooker and in gaza, that's been generating range and resistance for 3 generations and perhaps want we'll continue to do so for me anymore. and it's like a real live laboratory for training humans into human blogs because this is what
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people become when they're denied some semblance of dignified life. for way too long, can you even think about possible ways of defusing this mixer for co, explosive device made of millions of human souls? well, i think the oldest way to refuse this problem is degree to release the state. uh, to uh, you know, a change completely, the policies we've been conducting with, by israel, we, they sell the united states. they should have been deliberately trying, actually to, to solve this problem. you know, by, by the settlement flawlessly, by the eyes. the lation ball is that uh by pointing people as the name you should be all the brackets by focusing. busy your on by focusing on these really solve the problem mam. uh, over the recent uh months you know, i m, this made this explosion,
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really possible and editable. so you be if you have to create the listing and stay cool and boasting of state forest. secondly, you have to guarantee it's existence from the security perspective. for all the company perspective you have to, you know, do invest into ballast. i'm and bring some build up, some real economy. uh there with the help of neighboring countries. it is in the bristol, god was like jordan. yeah it egypt israel itself because after all, all now we see the the color black does not really guarantee is really a secure thing. so we have to return to the spirit the awfully agreements of 9 to 92 for emily jack basically depaula's this uh, the kind of been conducting wrongly off the words, but unfortunately more, but just by israel bought by the united states as well. can i ask you something here? uh, because one of your colleagues for the piano uh said recently the one of the things
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that this or option of wireless has demonstrated is that a strategy of binding time and essentially putting a frozen conflict on hold on hold in the hold. so if petering out by itself doesn't seem to work, it seems to be pretty dangerous. and the semblance of control that these rails may have had, has been not just broken. it was broken in a very humiliating and i totally sadistic way. but from what you've been suggesting about and it's in the alkalis attempt to move or to shift all the attention to it to ron, it seems like he's still pursuing the same tactic. what can possibly for sweep israel to change its time guessing that americans want to be taking poor arrived here by israel? well 1st of course you have to come bell and convince these rail. it leads and society of israel as well. you know, to focus on palestine instead of iraq will be difficult. right?
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because these way all kids and convinced itself of your on most of the bull is being, it's being used as a central threat. and the real and the real a danger. how to do it? well, i think the world has changed significantly as since my engine settled is even mine's in miners. and the major change is the emergence of the world. majority of it as a subject of international affairs says something that does cause huge agency or m, i are, you know, causes lifestyle. do you have any idea of the egypt talk is no longer just the origin. so great power confrontation, they are the subjects. they are the actors and they can create a new reality together with ease were right. uh, and i think it, we just are the dimensional community and the world majority. it simply needs to
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convince israel that it is impossible for uh, easily able to continue. uh, you know, the existing bulldozers as a, as it was it was more bring secure to say, you know, the united states as most of the, the kind of the united states that was in my engine light is extra with the interest to let, let me i'm sorry for interrupting you over time, but let me stop your desk here because this is a very important question. the role of the americans in these, this whole conflagration. let's address it. after a very, very short break. we're moving back states you and the to take a fresh look around as a life kaleidoscopic isn't just
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a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures, design to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills. and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground can there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth. is the case for the med, most of the people. i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also a pursuit. this is the 3rd world lunacy re washing press for. so the funder line likes to say, we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deal. so what should be living on that we have very close propaganda, you know, price here in new york. i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're
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not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. the more questions ask a better. the answer is will be the welcome back to was a portsmouth demetrius, so slim deputy director of the center for comprehensive if you're a fan and international studies are the higher school of economics and must go meter. and just before the break, we were talking about the, the whole new world, the main emerging, the global majority, that the needs to put pressure on israel. and of course, it's impossible to have this conversation without mentioning the americans who have always assumed the role of a chaperone of these rarely posting and conflicts. and i wonder, uh oh, rather let me repeat the 2nd part of my previous question. that is,
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do you think the americans want to be used by israel is as the big proxy with big guns with lots of influence g thing they want to be utilized in such a way that they usually utilize other countries? look, uh the united states, i think it is or is have put themselves in the very difficult position. first. they uh buy them, administration tries to build bridges with the world majority. i think the great and conflict it showed very explicitly of that the global majority is multi at the size, the united states, the us is losing global before us and they tried to reverse it. why it accommodating major countries in the global majority including solve their area, which they do not wants to, you know, further. 1 a partnership with the, with china and dicing the, actually one of the major reasons why the us for promoting this solid is really repre swan is to try to at least limits the solid,
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the bottom if it was driving. so the states needs global majority. there's as far as point, but the other hand, uh easily oh, is it possible american domestic politics, not just the of the us for as well as a bunch of the american domestic politics. these really question is all you want, you was, you know, that's, you know, it is very difficult for the united states. you know, they try to most, to take an ice israel on the why don't you have the counter for doing that because of the domestic. ready vertical vectors, but they caused the 4th for the issue of the global, mature, at the same time, right? and, uh, the, what does that mean? it means that the united states, per se, can no longer monopolized the is available is the no question. they try, they fail, they can no longer continue as the sure, let me let,
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let's talk about monopolizing because, i mean, i think this in this case, provides a very important litmus tests for leadership. and by leadership. i mean, not just the rhetorical statements of support the nation, but the actual, difficult, painstaking work off why diplomacy, uh, negotiating skills, etc. and it doesn't seem like the united states possesses any of that. i mean, now the situation is actually calling for a bold, responsible leadership and look at the, the track records of floating in the united nations security council that they, they don't seem to be able to do anything. and, you know, like, and my question here is actually a, it is a visitation and demonstrating that the united states, even if it wants to be a leader. i mean, it can be a leader in a stations when you know if the participation is not necessary, but when it is calling for it and they don't seem to possess even the skills of approaching it as well. absolutely, absolutely. are you know,
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why didn't the continues to say the united states all the world together? i think the reality is just the quarter. i think that's in the middle east. the original powers, the global majority, or the world much your, the cap and what the cap kept the situation together or avoiding escalation. whereas the united states is the reason for these to be licensed agent . and now we see just the questionable proof of that in the case of the escalation in, in the, in the middle east. uh so indeed, the united states cannot provide the necessary normally they should be course, it is focused on other priorities because the priorities of the united states is struggling in china and struggling in getting process and keeping the needle east. either way that it cannot be kind of dominated by china or why russia. so the view
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of this situation from the perspective of great baldwin competition, most of the perspective of regional security. and also from the perspective of data domestic bolts, you know, combined the united states cannot be a fair and effective mediator. so you have to add to it creates the participation of the world much your, that comprising of both global actors like russia, china, maybe brazil, you know, the brakes uh as a cool in the regional player. so of course including israel, but. busy also including your on in the air of a major companies, i as the it as a, it isn't use the diesel, i visual collective lives. so most american junior level one but collective literature by the world majority, i think, is necessary to resolve this crisis. now. now, uh, let us bring our discussion
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a little bit closer to home because of where the last 2 or 3 years we have well been following the confrontation in an over ukraine between russia and the collective west. and i've heard many analysis on the list, including yourself, said that the next world order, the new composition of the international system will be based on the outcome of done by the battle. i wonder if what's happening in the middle east can change the prediction. do you see any implications all for this latest interruption of violence and the focus of international attack, attention on it for the ukrainian from? well, i think that's the needle. eastern conflict is also a very clear indicator of the failure of the west to build new sustainable international order. right? the west of the united states has tried and failed and now it is impossible to
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bring sustainable stability into the middle east. for the oh, i mean, you, we've all been, uh, assuming that it's the ultimate goal to create peace and the, you know, sustainable development. but uh, on 32 months buying into the american veteran, do they actually want to be there's what i'm saying? they don't, i'm in the best uh, you know, they, the similarity between the ukraine off live down the middle east on the conflict is that in both cases, united states is trying to, for a long day to jump on it. instead of building piece right out of the complex themselves are instruments for the united states to continue. it's gives you more like pull it's, it's right by defeating the birth of it. so in the middle east, they tried to weaken and defeated the wrong in the ukraine. they tried to weaken a defeat process and so on, so forth. so it's more the most the deal is about the americans hegemony. right? uh, this as far as one second point, of course, uh,
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the escalation in the middle east is a bad news for you. green because the, the, the, the global and wisdom media is distract the political intention is distractive just little what's going on in the american congress won't just, because are presented as, but even the republican senators, they've been traditionally more friendly. it is a view, graeme are claiming that in the context of the escalation of the middle east, there's no way, but they're not as states to sustain the previous month because of the time. so they'll be able to support this service and the career critical issue. uh for us to discuss because i know that a couple of months ago you predicted that the, you more predicting that the united states uh would be increasing that military. so for the visit landscape, government in quantitative and qualitative terms. uh, it seems like uh your changing your opinion on that, i mean is it. 5 ultimately sustainable, especially not only in the views of israel's plans, but within the prospect of
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a major regional conflict, they assure the united states may need that the weapons, those weapons squared. so i think that i was absolutely right because i was making those predictions in the context of the beginning of ukrainian calendar offensive towards the c o. as all right, it was just the initial stages of, of course, the west was going to use this to helping ukraine in the full scale way to make this comp. and if i come from offensive affective so the, the west was really increasing. it's me with the felt through your grading quantities of weight as well as the delay over the last several months, including of course, the provisional cluster balls of attack comes a long range, ballistic missiles, the promise to deliver at $165.00 thursday and so on. and so forth. so it was really the case, but now the situation changed. right. and the major difference why i have,
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i'm not changing my opinion of this a based on change a, the cranium called but offensive failed. every model recognizes that. secondly, use the radio is more vital and emailed them to priority and for the uh, for the united states. so uh they can together of course the west will reduce the color of the quote that the uh, its uh, shelves, to ukraine, the by the ministration will not provide you green balls. but i think we should forget about any prospect of another major degree. i'm calling professor next year, at least right here. can i ask you something very quick because we have running out of time, but i think this is a coastal problem. you've been riding along the, the, one of the major reasons for confrontation of is the rush on the western side is what it are. western attempts to, uh, st. rushed off with great power status and re power means being able to influence
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events practically, on the ground, diplomatically, economically. sometimes, militarily, do you think they may ever come a point when the united states would not supply those russian abilities to influence the balance? but actually try to benefit from them either in the ukraine or let's say in the context of the middle east, because russia does have a lot of capacity for settling disputes in a fair and balanced way. well, the z idealistic image that you have created requires a fundamental change of the major problem with or so the us for and both sides most and see that in the making in the observable future. i think that during the next down 15 maybe 20 years, the united states will be still obsessed with the great power struggle. struggling russia and struggling china will be focused on uh, you know, uh,
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preservation of american primacy and a, he gemini, in the world, even in the absence of it's a huge you, i'm gonna, of the, even, you know, despite a certain generational change of, despite the change of the mood and model republicans, i'm the left is the liberal democrats, the us foreign policy is still monopolized by the deep state and the traditional establishment which are committed to the cold war paradigm of the us global leadership. so much more internal and external crisis. unfortunately, wouldn't be required and for the united states to reject this policy will come from being a russian or they will continue the hybrid war against bratia and systemic confrontational bullets is unfortunately, even after there is a ceasefire or resolution of the conflict in the ukraine,
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they will continue sanctions, they will continue to demonize ational process. unfortunately, i do not see any indication of any c and uh for a change of american ford in bull is the visa gosh, right? uh, to the uh, to work some improvements in the, uh, in the observable prospect in the longer term prospect. and even when the united states final it accepts the yellow, it is a multi polarity and starts to play a role of one among many. this change will certainly become in the editable. well, let me try and find it a very black or rather pessimistic picture. i would the use the israel's, the recent problems as a glory, but to some extent inspiring example. because reality still has its ways of, of imposing himself onto perceptions. and if that happened to is around maybe that will also happen to the united states. although i hope in the less blood the way we,
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we have to leave it there. but it's been a great pleasure, as always for me to talk to thank you very much for your insights. thank you. it's on always blessed. thank you for watching hope to sara. again, kind of was a part of the the, the or in ukraine crate who's present as a last,
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russia and ukraine. are you crazy there and you create us m tires. it does as you know, for the world. it is, i mean, it's proven, you know, it's against and we're the global warrant, tara, and it's now we need a new business project. oh, there's a concert. can you create real pool nato countries and helps to destroy the native military facilities and military production. the new york ukraine and ukraine means they're just kind of products. nobody cares about new cream. they did not care about the ukraine, people, not at all the and this morning. i was pleased to announce another major rounds of us security assistance designed to meet you frames urgent battle feel required. actually. ok, he did. it was sent to
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the slides as long as the ged wrong to go outside is or extend its ground operations. i've been to supplies is building campaign. as of us in the thought of holding the top 10000 people raised continues to fund anyone buried under the rubble of the many distorted buildings. and one of the towns offices of the why and how most of the retail rate is really prime minister. the money more is done to rescue the one the available welcome to from the inside seats.

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