the the, [000:00:00;00] the, the welcome to worlds apart suppressing an issue in the whole that it will go away by itself is a common strategy for dealing with challenging and unpleasant realities. and sometimes it works. but clearly not in the case of israel and palestine. the deck as long procrastination as addressing the problem in an authentic and meaningful way has led to such an accumulation of

a range and violence that the state of course is no longer sustainable. is there still a civil way out? well, to discuss it, i'm now joined by i'm on a booth a former member of the lebanese parliament advisor to a former liberties president, michelle allen. mister zavy, it's great to talk to thank you very much for being available. thank you for giving me this opportunity. now in my introduction, i just said the, the status quoting these rarely posting and conflicts seems no longer the sustainable. but i wonder if you actually agree with that with this latest or option of wildlands. do you think the problem can still be put on hold, that is israel retreating to its previous strategy or mortifying its own defenses and sealing of gals, or from the rest of the world? and frankly, from a dignified life? well, i think we have to all of us, all of the sudden focus a lot of people have to have this ability. just say that the subscriber has to be

maintained. otherwise, the re book flips, which nobody wants. know, nobody desires, on both the, on both sides. sides, but for this to happen a, so we have to get a hold of you. so from edison perspective, if i, if i may say, which means and justice, i mean, we have is the past to strongest. i guess i'm has to stop. and it's a, it's a way of just sitting, guarding the dsl or get the dimension for the students all over the state. ready $75.00 to $75.00. yes. i've anything that divide from that on and measuring the state. so once this is being added as accepted, if de perfect man, diplomatically, i think we, uh, everybody would be happy to see that. so the issue is for 22nd spice for what's happening and doesn't missed those 8. i mean it must be all one that i think this the current status for is based actually on the invoice and denial all for the

palestinian rights and the palestinian dignity. you know, normal life to millions of the policy new people. and i think it's fair to say that for many decades keeping gaza on the blockade has been israel's preferred strategy . that's essentially how they've been conducting that policy. of israel in deep moves into guys or do you think they actually understand what they are going to encounter there? do you think israel is fully aware of what kind of consequences it will have to deal with? i think they do, they do find the decision to answer them to guys have to go by the aid of 40 if i'm in it for let's say around that because they should be aware especially the up or what's happening to them on the 7th of october that was taken by surprise and this the best, the best for them, but they will not be bad. they sold up, everything is going to be according to the agenda, but things have changed about his team. does that have changed?

and as, as we've just mentioned before, if we look at the stuff just go as it was before, just to keep an eye. you know, if i've seen the lights upside of determination to have the entire stage and that sort of the and so on. so i and saw this b is a continue with the op ex 3 means i'm on both sides of the function you with your floor. ready well let's stop by locating the does, which they did. busy several years but has changed. nothing just has increased the vehicle. they increase a gave how, because of the, you know, groups assigned it is smaller part of the, of the a whole bunch size. there is a will define both arms on it. all right? and so i suspect that this time, if it, on the 15th, when it would be pending, you're very high for us. now if we put aside the emotional and rhetoric on political reasons for, they need to know who govern government because to some extent they are wiping out

of the steri around the take over all guys a to cover for their own security family is that's pretty clear and i think given these rarely media, i recognize that, but if we put all of that aside, it seems that the full scale invasion of guys that goes against israel's interest because as just sad it's, it's impossible to even imagine what kind of consequences they will have to face, because you know, 3000000 people who are highly antagonistic towards israel and are likely to remain sol for many, many decades. why do you think them uh, these really government is still uh, storing on this hornets nest. why do you seeing the sort of is telling the whole world that they're about to invade gaza? they will, they, you know, they have the most very high expectations they wanted to, to, at that goes up as well as the said to. ready to finish because it would come us

and secondly to maintain or but i'm the governess over there about for this to happen, it'd be size. we just need to have the brakes to the minute or to finish with millions of people to see what's going on. and goes that these days, they usually one button bro bye and different types of both weapons on the from the airplanes from. ready see whatever you just named it as well. so what's going on more schedule this man, it children women to really is i've had being killed. and if they go up and she had the box, or are they to expect patients as a government in order to face and have to save the patients? zillow, and then, you know, is in deep the probably be the vision inside pennsylvania community. you know, what happens after the, after the 7. ok, they fault a unity government or let's say in medicine government. but this would be for this are fine. but cheap. while they are what they. busy want it's got they've done lots of guys with this from the side and nobody. ready sure,

read them and then we'd be finishing with come us because, you know, i'm us comes from the people. the thing is that a brokerage, i tried to do where you live in the gods, or you just mentioned the sort of saving basis. to be fair. i want to bring it into our conversation, the arab and muslim countries who, for whom i think the power steering issue has also become a bit of a token. i mean, they all express their rhetorical, a sofa direct tv, the palestinians, but they don't influence the balance on the ground or the fair resolution of this, of this crisis. what kind of a reaction or perhaps a retribution and may we expect from the arab and muslim world if indeed the is really a movement into guys the proceeds. well, i won't be able to buy the standard size bed hoping too much about the pollution will be uh, unless them got stuck in the suspect. we have to do

a door and notified everybody that what happens is called the float, a softball. they, it's a good place to live, just let them, it's not only political, you know, and this sentiment is very much stretching, but the most names one bye bye bye, at 13, goes up. i'd be the most space is, will be able to both of the streets over there. most of them worked out other customers because not one government can stop them from the way. so whether this will affect the decision of data elements or business governments. if there's something else, but definitely there should be some different addresses and there such governments that we would not state or without taking any action. i mean, political, diplomatic, and the deceptive because ultimately uses for the front of the, it has been used in the investigative services the most again is these are sending them out by the people themselves. so something is going to happen. they upset and

say 1000000000 see of it onto everything. what's going on now in o is rarely our horse until now israel prevailed due to its larger army and far better equipped army. and it's, we're at this point, as you said, the, they're very few. if any muslim countries that want to get involved by putting the troops on the ground, but on the other hand, if they don't do anything, they also face um a considerable threat, for example of the influx of palestinian refugees into egypt into lab and on into jordan that is quite an existential issue with threats and or undermine the security of those countries in a very significant way. do you think they should been dealing with this gordon? not them. the one has not one thing together and both militarily, but also feeling the pressure to do something to prevent the, you know, thousands if not millions of palestinian refugees from streaming into that countries. 2 days ago there was

a dimension on the summit. ready then entitled and busy issue was addressed, general issue is the 1st company which has been active progressive through the buses and they refused to open dispatchers because they don't want any influx of i've seen is info the, the injection that the stipends in me is we are finishing more, but these are the cnn mental issue, which is they've been been going on for the 75 years. so we are dividing the boasting and bias and do you mind whether you buy for quite a funny estate in defendant's name? i know i'd love to have you. ready know they can do so many things a they, they can use as i said, it's not the extras they, can we go anywhere they can form on the, on both of those. uh, especially with discount. those that'll be sent this way, which they have exchanged, their monthly conditions, they can do both of them and it goes into, into a massive,

really big on the exhaust. so it's impressive if not the only thing we also do because they have the means it's dental how to use it. i'm sometimes wondering whether israel may be playing out of this danger all by a total takeover of gaza to essentially pool. um, it's our of neighbors into solving this issue because as you said, it would be playing into israel's hands. if all the guys a residence on a significant portion of them leads to the neighboring countries. he's a real can know when and take the territory on the, you know, judging from the past history, the rarely gives up the, the territories that if the it seems militarily so don't you think that perhaps oldest hysteria about the pending invasion of gaza is a, a little bit artificial on manipulative in order to essentially encourage arab and muslim countries to solve the issue or control them in judging on the bottom of the so if any of the time in office as a prime minister,

he was all the time refusing to admit to recognize an independent the state for about a senior. so just to try us, if you eyes on vivian is a, it would be going to this, i've been your because they are very much extremist in that. and then in this case, they will not the both, but if they wouldn't buy it, they withdrawal from phone guys. so i don't think it's designed for them to come again. so i, i love to play. i guys the way they, they, they wanted the 1000000 population more to go to the hips on the side, st units a for medical education. so and so also at this time, the area there are, again, i think, and i'm trying to save the image of the, in the idea of the government obviously. and because they have the face, some guys, i cannot say i got best of you know, but we went, everybody,

a industry jim was saying that they have the best of me and this vision, this best started me on and all the incentives and services that they have raised in dfcs or to anticipate what was going on. so now the government. but if somebody is, isn't it for another he guy because it's being done, it's on himself alone. others and the yeah, i think we essentially agree here that they are corners by their own arrogance and believing that they can control the situation only by force. uh, when, in fact we're talking about millions and millions of people who have been put in under very uh, disney 5 conditions for what a case and that problems. no one can tell you. that's all the social issues. i mean issues like this. if we move up to all over the history of the day, this would be the magic solution only because one of the same people have to sit

together on the table and discuss things aggressive. anybody, a realistically, the only way i just the way is to have to separate the 2 independent states. we have you and there's a new sense which are above the accepted by the national community. we have the positive which is west. how are you about to stay and sort of being here again, any recognition that existing they would, they survive, forget the believe limit, but each and then prevent it. but i think that's what i want to know. if both sides will accept that discount then, but at the end of the day, we should have a ticket. so this mr. as a we, we have to take a very short break right now, but we will go back to this discussion in

a few seconds. please stay tuned. the, the, the,

[000:00:00;00] the welcome back to wells appliance with apple is a former member of the lebanese parliament and adviser to a former lebanese president michelle, our research a before the break. we have started talking about the historical lessons and i know that throughout the lifetime you've been a very active member of the matter. and i've community of 11 on its christian asking a religious room that has been able to preserve its collective identity throughout centuries without having its own state. and i think it's example is very relevant for, for the current is rarely policy and in the context, because the ultimately, they're also fighting overland over statewood over uh, collected identity. and

a question i want to ask you is, what do you think has allowed the, the narrow knobs to develop as a people of all the way from the 4th century, without having this protective a unifying structure over state. first of all, because said motor, and i'd say i know that chris choose as you just said, very much the believers and, and it was 70. and at that time any of the old age and all that, it was actually just the district. ready among many uh, manufacturing and many it in bios, you know about. so i'll be, is we, we have many things over on a, let's say in this, on the, the, because even though we, we, we live and live at home and without us got them up on the live on them and live at home. and by this time, because celia enjoy live and some other also there. yes. so god spent all over this company is we have,

we've been doing this and with all the other communities be all together, live in bees. and really, and then we'd be swear with the really every, every ethnic group as advocates on vice of believe it. ringback or less of the nation if, if i don't think advice as well the each, the defense mandate that we work with others today living and just said i'm being specified in that in the being off today. we went our most them uh, also brothers here to hold a gun. the guns images will depend on what everybody else and they get all of it. it's on the lights, but it's a basically, you know, religiously educationally, and make it. so it's a practice that to move out of the this is just about the, the is under these 2 men speaking both nationalist identity. so i think it's more or less clear what israel stands for. but what about the palestinians?

do you think they carry any, am this think national identity apart from the resistance to israel's domination and is resistance alone to sustain a collective or national identity? i think they have the identity, which is clear, the device to union identity up to or if i may say, because or, or what's happened is throughout this uh, in the 75 years or more. you know, the identity is very important as the rest of them because that model, most of them are most of the, you know, baby last the, the plan by jonathan. this and this audience has to be say, so yes, they have their own identity, whether it's collective a month, it is part of the if i miss it, i bet admit, must have to say all of this in the woods. which a dad because of that as part of them as close to the they have julian and i like so most of over there. so just connected and they have proof of residency. you

mentioned that you are a believe that they still to stay solution is the only viable scenario and to some extent, the thing lead service to the 2 state solution has allowed israel to maintain this a very unjust a status call for many, many decades. and i'm sure you're, you've heard that some people are suggesting to keep things as they are. that is, uh, sort of quasi one state, but uh, press for equal rights for all, perhaps a dog, the lebanese model that you just mentioned, where, you know, christians and she and sunni muslims can least side by side as well as some other groups like choose for example uh why, why do you think the to stay solution is still a better option given again uh the, the current reality is on how much the situation on the ground has changed over the past 75 years or so. yeah,

this is because this is where you just stay as long as it's paid for choose. it is very simple because they say that i'm not saying it. so even if you have before, did not get for the ups moving the, i wonder if they have one bytes as the other is right, is leaving the controls. they think that's what all you know is that a certain distance is ok. there wasn't a solution of one state whereby, but his pinions, jews are living together and under the same uh, flag, as we say. we're really with the head shedding the same uh, identity. uh, but still, i don't think it's a viable. so have you seen before or what happened in our case in the as the level of the we didn't have this kind of a bulky piece between all sides. okay. we had the civil war and instead of default on the instigators by playing in 13 is because because if i send you an issue because of the presence of the students to be able to be more mobile besides,

they won't have to solve this. so it'd be useful although, but instead of the expense of them, it needs to be a pick up and a 40 by the speed you saw other than that. no, but i do think it is okay. we have our differences everywhere over the web. b and then we have dismissal in december. so i'm going to bump this up there and. ready the boring blogs on file, so it's been edited exhausted between level and these are, you know, well it may be different, but i think that the example of the is really intervention 11 on back in the midnight tonight is, is also relevant one because uh correct me if i'm wrong here, but i think the efforts to eradicate the pillow basis has actually led to the consolidation and empowerment of his bullet. so even if they succeed in uh, removing or significantly undermining, how much do you think they can fully deal with this bigger problem of an armed resistance to that policies?

because they, they seem to be chasing, not the actual good 0 but this whole idea that the opposition to the way they're ok supplying the holy land. it seems to be much broader than or much deeper than just one insurgent grow. what do you think? yeah, it's what you're saying is because i, i believe even the way when you, when you all know about the vacation of the piano from the bottom. but this, it'd be vision stopped vehicle from existing as important thinking body or as an immunization at all. no, i did not. even if they met each one to goes about this doesn't mean that there were also added to it from us. so it means that the, the use of force is not the proper answer that the old one big questions are, all the issues and differences of problems that we are facing. we have to know it to another. and there's one more question i want to ask you. um whenever we deal

with a major international issue these days, they're always 2 ways of looking at it. one that allows for the presence of a historical context and one that's 6 to eliminated. and i think both these really some, the americans had clearly preferred the latter option. you know, they are, they're focusing now or older attention on the brutality of him as a and this using to recognize that these mortality didn't a crew out of nowhere. it grew wrong, the suppression of legitimate drives, of, of certain people. and i wonder how would you approach this very intricate problem of historical realities and the actual reality is because we need to rectify some historical injustice and, but also with, with some semblance of respect to the current. they advance well i can give you a little of them uh expedius and that so since 1948,

when the student in crisis, you know, i came to the international. ready very nice because it is being facing the mitchell obviously is the fact to be as a we have been very high prices several, several times that back live alone. we made the civilian vices, economic and the prices i'm doing all these events or on your end, and that book that we never have any salt or, or any, let's say a guy and boss, uh, west. i'm not going to be a medical book about the whole was the same by buyers with us as, as the minis on december's eyes. with that, with the with i was like the casual gives it every mom we are on the defense and we're outside and there, when all of them supporting is way, it was all but it was doing. so this gives you, i mean, something is his thought to go into as being like this of the day nowadays or, or, but they said, or like you mentioned,

maybe do the broadcast it up. how much that tends to be, not through your website, what's happening every single day, every over, every minute of up to date, the continuous flow about been to, to the people and goes up, what does this is it the human being cannot see it, he and he develops no problem at it for monica or other parts will go as d all vegas more. but sometimes you have to put in a position. you have to defend yourself and to defend you advise you are a human being. you have that i have to exist to be live and then going to have been, as i said, people saw, well, uh, i got for many of them just because we had that up. and we had run up from the western side. and i want to mention here the experience of my colleague here there to you one of our camera. remember, he is originally from palestine and just last week. and his really belong him, the house where his family was living and more than 12 members of his family,

our dad in one single home and do it. and i'm sure there, you know, people all over the world who can uh, either sympathize and be directly affected by, by these crisis. and the, the worst thing about it, i remember this call like, like sometimes years ago we were traveling around the middle east. i think we were in syria and he told me that look you as a russian and we have no collection to israel, you can go there any time you can get these or you can travel the holy places. and i, as somebody who was born in palestine cannot go there. and uh, you know, that says something about the, you know, the very something in dignity. it's like some something very exist special for me to stay. and so have been denied the right to be themselves. actually, i'm going to israel always claims the underwriter protective. so, but it's doing it at the cost of other people's rights of existence. the only thing you do with the to, to do the means it's very hot. you know,

i was living to live on getting the civil war and during the tax or the x rays especially be the $106.00. you know what it is to move from from your village, my mother that live in shelter we. we have witnessed this others, the police thing is i look missing the same and that i think after all, what's happening the international. busy has to wake up, let me say, then we have to say the way up and it's i, as it's is up to date the stand i'm to stop on this outdoors is made by raise, right. is that the do it? well, let me say that i hope they hear it, at least, but the, let me thank you for sharing your insights with us today. and let's hope that the, as many lives could be safe as possible. and in this, a very, very difficult and very, very long conflict by joining in, in, in offering this actually because we have enough,

we new people are having enough spending so much. hey, thank you for watching and hope to say we're again. and it was a part of the, the there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth. is the case all the methods of the people. i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also of soon, this is the 3rd world lunacy re washing press for so the funder line likes to say, we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deals. what, let me let me on mind. you have very quick propaganda. you know

a price here in new york, i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. some more questions ask the better. the answer is will be the to the. ready ready ready ready ready ready the former send, the option of assets to players is less than if i've got a board outside to the lot plugin,