belongs to god's messengers and the land belongs to posting in such a land. to be honest, i'm holding supportive police to unions and pray. god gives them victory. you for example, you're mostly, my circumstance has happened which you lost your life in the holy land of mecca. there is no problem in that because it's a fully worth. and if i have the opportunity to go there, i will not hesitate to go. i can, so all of my belongings just to go there again, a have bus in the center. i'm just praying the nation and a if i to inside that if i was may god have was inside been in this issue a little mix, the solution come down with anybody and this will leave your sleep. don't want any war. that's knowing that he'll get what you will know getting for the walk for the lead this way. we live live on completely. we need to free our life. much more timothy, easy are to a blue job material. and finally, additional authorities have detained them on believe to have coordinate to the recent assassination attempt on

a permanent politician and don't boss. this last night is said to be a russian national, who confessed he was recruited by ukrainian intelligence, the victim of the study of a sofa, multiple gunshot wounds and nearly died in the side. he previously said, as you cleaning parliament vend, but before you cited with russia, when the don't boss conflicts adopted in 2014. but you know, it's hard to say they found the bottom of the suspects home and materials about study all of these movements and investigations. you find the government and the potential a conferences is ongoing, are with us all. so now from want any of those stories do head over to our websites are come monday. speak to scott's gonna be back in just under 30 minutes time. thanks for watching the,

[000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to worlds apart. suppressing an issue in the whole that it will go away by itself is a common strategy for dealing with challenging and unpleasant realities. and sometimes it works. but clearly not in the case of israel and palestine, the deck as long procrastination as addressing the problem in an authentic and meaningful way has led to such an accumulation of a range and violence that the state of course is no longer sustainable. is there still a civil way out? well, to discuss it, i'm now joined by a booth, a former member of the lebanese parliament advisor to a former lebanese president, michelle allen. mister zavy,

it's great to talk to thank you very much for being available. thank you for giving me this opportunity. now, in my introduction, i just said the, the status quoting these rarely posting and conflicts seems no longer a sustainable. but i wonder if you actually agree with that with this latest or option of wildlands. do you think the problem can still be put on hold, that is israel retreating to its previous strategy off for to find its own defenses and sealing of gals are from the rest of the world and frankly, from a dignified life? well, i think we have to all of us all the phone. so thought because a lot of people have to have this ability to just say that the such as well, it has to be maintained. otherwise you'll be able to flinch water, which nobody wants. know nobody desires on both the, on both sides. but for this to happen, we have to get a, the whole issue from a different perspective because i may say,

which means and justice. i mean, uh, we have is, i is, has to stop this. i guess i'm has to stop. it's a, it's a way of just sending guarding the dsl for determination for the both statements all over these channels. savings about 75. yes. i've anything that divide from that on mentioned in the states. so once this is being added as accepted the command diplomatically, i think we, uh, everybody would be happy to see this abuse. and if this was only 2nd spite or what's happening and doesn't missed those 8, i mean as much as me all one that i think this the current status for is based actually on the invoice and denial all for the palestinian rights and the palestinian dignity. you know, normal life to millions of the palestinian people and i think it's fair to say that for many decades keeping gaza on duplicate has been israel's preferred strategy.

that's uh essentially how they've been conducting that policy of israel in deep moves into guys or do you think they actually understand what they are going to encounter there? do you think israel is fully aware of what kind of consequences it will have to deal with? i think is no they do, they do find the decision to enter into guys have to go by the age of 40. if i'm at, let's say around the fact because they should be aware, especially dr. what's happened to them on the 2nd of october that was taken by surprise and this the best, the best for them. if the bill will not be bad, they sold up everything is going to be according to the agenda, but things have changed. if i've seen this, they have changed, and as, as we just mentioned before, if we look at this stuff, just go as it was before, just to keep an eye. and then if i've seen the lights upside of determination to have the entire stage at that sort of the and so on. so i and saw this be,

is a, continue with the office, 3 minutes on both sides of the function you with your floor plan. let's stop by locating the does, which they did. busy several years but has changed. nothing gets has increased the vehicle and increase a gave how because of the, you know, groups assigned it is. busy part of the, of the a whole bunch sides, there is a well defined motor arms on it. all right? and so i suspect that this time you've been on the 15th when they will be paying your very high for us. now if we put aside the emotional and rhetoric on political reasons for, they need to know who govern government because to some extent they are wiping out of the steri around the take over all guys a to cover for their own security family is that's pretty clear and i think given these really need to recognize that, but if you put all of that aside,

it seems that the full scale invasion of guys that goes against israel's interest because as just sad it's, it's impossible to even imagine what kind of consequences they will have to face, because you know, 3000000 people who are highly antagonistic towards israel and are likely to remain sol for many, many decades. why do you think the uh, these really government is still uh, storing on this hornets nest. why do you seeing the sort of telling the whole world that they're about to invade gaza? it was today, you know, they have the most very high expectations they wanted to, to at that goes up as to why does this have to. ready finish because it was from us and secondly to maintain all that and the governors over there about for this to happen, it'd be size or just and it needs to have the brakes to a minute or to finish with millions of people to see what's going on and goes that these days they usually one button from. busy by and different parts of both

weapons on the air from the airplanes from. ready see whatever you just named it as well. so what's going on more schedule, this mandated children women to really, as i've had being. and if they go up and she had the box or good expectation as a government in order to face up to save the pace, and zillow, nathaniel is in deep the probably be the vision inside big baby community. you don't want to have him, dr. be after the 7. ok, they fault a unit, the government or let's say in medicine government. but this would be for this are fine, but cheap while they are what they want, it's going to take them lots of guys with this from the side and nobody. ready sure whether there will be, uh, finish it will come us because, you know, i'm us comes from the people. the thing is, i'm a brokerage, i try to do where i live in the same guys are you just mentioned the sort of saving

basis to be fair. i want to bring it into our conversation, the arab and muslim countries who, for whom i think the power steering issue has also become a bit of a token. i mean, they all express that a rhetorical, a sofa direct tv, the palestinians, but they don't influence the balance on the ground or the fair resolution of this, of this crisis. what kind of a reaction or perhaps a retribution and may we expect from the arab and muslim world if indeed the is really a movement into guys the proceeds. well, i will be by the standard size bed hoping too much about the pollution of the list of guns. but in the suspect, we have to do a door and notified everybody that what's happened is called the slope acceptable. they it took place really just level. it's not only political, you know, and this sentiment is very much touching, but the most names one by, um, by uh,

13 goes up. i believe the most space is, will be included in both of the streets all over there. most of them worked out other customers because not one government can stop them from the resort, whether this will affect the decision of data elements or business governments if there's something else. but definitely, there should be some different addresses and that such governments would not state or without taking any action. i mean politically different method and receptive because none of them is east, as for the front of the as has been used in there. and that's gonna serve in dispute the mainland once again. yes. these are sending them out by the people themselves. so something is going to happen. they upset and say, you didn't see of the quotes for you, but now in o is rarely our horse. until now, israel prevailed due to his larger army and far better equipped army. and it's clear at this point, as you said, the,

they're very few if any muslim countries that want to get involved by putting the troops on the ground. but on the other hand, if they don't do anything, they also face um a considerable threat for example of the influx of palestinian refugees into egypt into lab and on into jordan. that is quite an existential issue with threats and or undermine the security of those countries. in a very significant way, do you think they should been dealing with this gordon? not them. the one have not one thing together and both militarily, but also feeling the pressure to do something to prevent the, you know, thousands. if not millions of palestinian refugees from streaming into that countries. few days ago there was a dimension on the summit and then in cairo. and this issue was addressed general guy. you tube is the 1st company which has been active progressive through the buses and they refused to open dispatchers because they don't want any influx of i've seen as dental

b is the injection that the stipends in me is we are finishing more, but these are the cnn mental issue, which has been going on for the 75 years. so we are dividing the boasting and bias and demands whether you buy for quite a use for the estate in dependents that i know i'd love to have you. ready know they can do so many things a they, they can use, as i said, if not the extras they can be go anywhere they can pull on the, on both of those. uh, especially with discount. those that'll be spent this way, which they have exchanged domestic relations. they can talk to them and it goes into international really big on the exact sort them president, if not the politically also and government because they have the means dental how to use it. i'm sometimes wondering whether israel may be playing on these danger all by a total takeover of gaza to essentially pool um it's air of neighbors into solving this issue because as you said,

it would be playing into israel's hands if all the guys a residence on a significant portion of them leads to the neighboring countries. he's a real can know when and take the territory on the, you know, judging from the past history, the really gives up the territories that if the it seems militarily so don't you think that perhaps oldest hysteria about the impending invasion of gaza is a, a little bit artificial on manipulative in order to essentially encourage arab and muslim countries to solve that issue or control them in judging on the bottom of the so if any of the time in office as a prime minister, he was all the time refusing to add meant to recognize an independent the state for about a student. and so just to, to us, if you eyes on video is a, we'd be going to with this. i've been your because they are very much serviced in

that. and then in this case, they will not the bulk, but if they will die, they withdrawal from the phone go. so i don't think it's designed for them to come again. so i, i love you, bye. i guys the way they they, they won't do that to 1000000 population more until the bought them a huge from the side st unit. they for medicaid do cash and so on. so so this discount time, the area there are, again, i think, and i'm trying to save the image of the idea of the government obviously. yeah. because they have the phase, some guys, i cannot say i got the sort of, you know, but we've, i've ever heard about the industry general saying that they have the best of me and this vision, this best buy would be on and all the incentives and services that they have phase and dfcs or to, to submit but was being bought. so now the government.

but if somebody isn't going to put another he guy the gun, if they damage on himself and on others and the yeah, i think we essentially agree here that they are corners by their own arrogance and believing that they can control the situation. only by flores when in fact we're talking about millions and millions of people who have been put in under very uh, disney 5 conditions for what a case and that problems. no one can. sure. that's what the social issues. i mean issues like this. if we move up to all over the history of the day, this would be the magic solution, political sort of mission. people have to sit together on the table and discuss things. i'm addressing anybody a realistic way. the only way, i just the way is to have to separate the 2 independent states. we have you and then there's

a new sense which i bought the accepted by the national community we have before, which is west. how are you about to stay and sort of being here in any reservations that exist thing they would they survive? forget the believe limit, but each and implement it. but i think that's what i want to know. if both sides will accept that discount then, but at the end of today we should have a product and service miss as a we, we have to take a very short break right now, but i think it will go back to this discussion in a few seconds. please stay tuned. the welcome back to was a part of was a former member of the lebanese parliament and adviser to a former lebanese president michelle, our own research,

a before the break. we have started talking about the historical lessons and i know that through all of your lifetime, you've been a very active member of the narrow and nice community off level. no, it's a christian asner religious group that has been able to preserve its collective identity throughout the centuries without having uh, its own state. and i think it's example is very relevant for, for the current. the a is rarely policy in the context because of the ultimately they are also fighting overland over state who over uh, collected identity. and the question i wanna ask you is, what do you think has allowed the, the narrow knobs to develop as a people all the way from the 4th century, without having these protective a unifying structure over state. first of all, because most of them i'd say, you know, they are christians, as you just said, very much the believers and, and it was sent at the end at that time,

any of the old age and all that. it was actually just visiting. ready among many uh, many sections and many it impious it all up. so all be, is we, we have many things over on a, uh, let's say in this, along the, the, because you know, we, we, we live and live at home and we got them up on the live on them and live at home. and by this time you can see area enjoy live and some other also area. so god spread all over this company is we have, we've been doing this and with all the other communities be all together, live in bees. and he and, and then we'd be swear with the really every community, every ethnic group as advocates on vice of believe it's or less of the nation if, if i think advice as well. oh, the each, the defense men, dave, that we work with others that i know living in this,

that i'm being specified in that in the being off today. we went our most of them uh also, but didn't seem to form a government account that which is a little different. but everybody estimate people of its own rights produce a basically, you know, religiously educationally, and make it. so it's a practice the this is about the use of the east man speaking about nationalized identity. so i think it's more or less clear what israel stands for. but what about the palestinians? do you think they carry any, am this think national identity apart from the resistance to israel's domination and is resistance alone to sustain a collective or national identity? think they have the identity, which is clear, it may be biased,

union identity up to or if i may say, because or, or what's happened is that, oh, this is the 75 years or more. you know, the identity is very important, doesn't work for them because most of them are muslims. to be, you know, they belong to you in the twin by jonathan. this. and this audience has to be say, so yes, they have their own identity, whether it's connected or not. it is part of the if i missed it and it must have to say of this in the words which a dad because of the as part of them and because the they have just losing. and i like so much go with that. so yes, the connected and they have to spend the way then you mentioned your believe that they still to stay solution is the only bible scenario. and to some extent, the thing leads service to the 2 state solution has allowed israel to maintain this very unjust. the start is cool for many, many decades. and i'm sure you're,

you've heard that some people are suggesting to keeps things as they are. that is, uh, sort of quasi one state, but the press for equal rights for all, perhaps a dog, the lebanese model that you just mentioned, where, you know, christians and she and sunni muslims can least side by side as well as some other groups like choose for example why, why do you think the 2 stay solution is still a better option given again uh the, the current reality is on how much the situation on the ground has changed over the past 75 years or so. yeah, this is because this is ready to stay as low as this day, but choose. it is very simple because they say that i'm not saying it. so even if you have before did not get for the ups moving the, i wonder if they have. busy invites as the others right is leaving the draws they think that's what all you know is that a certain distance. ready ok, the solution of one state whereby what his pinions,

jews are living together and under the same uh flag as we say. we really with the head shedding the same uh, identity. uh, but still i don't think it's a viable so you should before or what happened in our case in the as level of the we didn't have this kind of process is between oh and says, okay, we have the civil war and you know, 75 and the instigated by putting in 13 is because, because everybody's getting an issue because of the presence of the students in the to be is to be more model besides, they wanted to solve the. so it'd be the issue of the step of the expense of the needs to be a. ready pick up in a 40 by the speed you saw, other than that? no, but i do think it is okay. we have our differences everywhere over the web. b and then we have dismissal in december. i'm going to bump this up there and it was asking for

a loving blogs on file. so it's been edited the legs off of the 2 level. and these are, you know, well, it may be different, but i think that the example of the is really intervention and loving them back in the mid 19 ages is also a relevant one because uh correct me if i'm wrong here. but i think the efforts to eradicate the pillow basis has actually led to the consolidation and empowerment of his ball. uh so uh, even if they succeed in uh, removing or significantly undermining. how much do you think they can slowly deal with this bigger problem of an armed resistance to that policies? because they, they seem to be chasing, not the actual good 0 but this whole idea that the opposition to the way they're ok supplying the holy land. it seems to be much broader than or much deeper than just one insurgent grow. what do you think your is what you're saying is whether i believe even the way when you,

when you all know about the education of the vehicle from level. but do this in a division stop being all existing as the body or as ambulatory? uh, no, i did not. even if they met each one to goes about this doesn't mean that there was also and it became a months. so it means that the then yours of course is not the proper answer to all one big questions about the issues and differences of problems that we are facing. we have to look. ready into another and there is one more question i want to ask you. um whenever we deal with a major international issue these days, they're always 2 ways of looking at it. one that allows for the presence of a historical context and one that's 6 to eliminated. and i think both these really some, the americans had clearly preferred the latter option. you know, they are, they're focusing now or older attention on the brutality of come us

and refusing to recognize that these brutalities didn't a crew out of nowhere. it grew wrong. the suppression of legitimate drives, of, of certain people. and i wonder how would you approach this very intricate problem of historical realities and the actual reality is because we need to rectify some historical injustice and, but also with, with some semblance of respect to the current, the events. well, i can give you a little long uh, expedius in that. so since 1948, when the other student in crisis, you know, i came to the international letting as was state that was being facing the, the s mitchell obviously is the top is a, we have a very high presence, several, several times that back live alone we made the civilian vices, economic and oppressive. i'm doing all these events or on your end,

and that we never have any salt or, or any, let's say, a guy, both the west of the american book about the whole was the same about buyers with us as, as the minis on december size. with that, with the with i would like the casual visit every about, we are on the defense and we're a thought and the all the time supporting is way it was or, but it was doing. so this gives you an example is who's thought ago. it's been since it's been like this, i'll keep a nowadays or, or, but they said or by dimensions, but maybe do that. they're both gusted up how much they tend to be, not through what's, what's happening every single day, every over, every minute of up to date. they continuous. oh, but then go to the people and goes up. why does this, is it the human being cannot see it? he and then i was no problem at it for many go or other parts will go as

d all to gaze more. but sometimes you have to put in a position. you have to defend yourself and to defend you advise you are a human being. you have that i have to exist to be live in the as i said, people saw, well, uh, i got for many of them just because we had that up. and we had been up from the rest inside. and i want to mention here the experience of my colleague here there to one of our camera. remember, he is originally from palestine, i just last week. and his really bomb him, the house where his family was living and more than 12 members of his family, our dad in one single home and do it. and i'm sure there, you know, people all over the world who can uh, either sympathize and be directly affected by, by these crisis. and the, the worst thing about it, i remember this call like, like sometimes years ago we were traveling around the middle east. i think we were

in syria and he told me that look you as a russian with no collection to israel, you can go there any time you can get these or you can travel to holy places. and i, as somebody who was born in palestine cannot go there and you know that, that's, there's something about the, you know, the very something in dignity. it's like some something very exist special for me to stay. and so have been denied the right to be themselves. actually, israel always claims being the right to protect itself, but it's doing it at the cost of other people's rights of existence. the only thing you do with due to dealing with it means it's very hot. you know, i was living to live on getting the civil war and during the tax or the x rays, especially the 106, you know what it is to move on from your village another, but it's live in shelter. we. we have witnessed this others, the police thing is i look the same the same and that i think after all,

what's happening to international. busy has to wake up, let me say that we have to say the way up and inside. it's is up to date the stand and just stop on this is it is made by raise, right? is that the do it? well, let me say that i hope they hear it, at least, but the loved me, thank you for sharing your insights with us today. and let's hope that the as many lives could be safe as possible. and in this very, very difficult and very, very long conflict. i enjoyed in, in loving this auction because we have enough, we new people not having enough to really just to much hey, thank you for watching and hope to say we're again. and it was

a part of the, [000:00:00;00] the refugee camp in northern gaza is reportedly hit by these really strikes coming at least 50 people and injuring dozens, palestinian desktops, the process a $1300.00 since the world, the guns 3 weeks ago. you and has labeled before the displacements of 1400000 gallons of civilians as collective punishments. the tubes, prime minister says he's country will not give any portion of the countries landed