the, the, the harbor buddy. i'm rick sanchez. i've been doing news for 30 years and 2 languages all over the world. here in the us, i've interviewed for president's work that for the u. s. has major television networks. i don't like what they do is he, isaac, new should be honest, and direct and impactful. and this is direct impact. the want to start by talking about history. you see, history doesn't begin when we want it to. history begins when it begins ukraine, despite what my friends in the us corporate media report, for example,

didn't become a story in just. busy last year, in fact, it probably happened closer to 20. 14 is a just because you don't cover a story. doesn't mean it didn't happen. and so it is with this latest conflagration between israel and home us. now don't get me wrong. there is no question that what her mazda did, and attacking israel and killing civilians, is on its face. a barbaric act. something for which there is no place in civilized society, but that one at say those and follow the middle east conflict does not represent the totality of his railey palestinian relations. and without understanding the past. it's kind of impossible to truly assess or even criticize the here and now which is where we are. and here is the palestinian ambassador to the united nations

re months or taking a shot at the media for that very thing whose duty for some media and politicians start twin is riley's up to a lot of people have endured one deadlier after another we came to the security council months of the month, warning over the consequences of as a helium community, an international match. now to be sure, israel is unimportant geopolitical ally for the united states for this country. it's also a country that both abundant advances in technology and science and business. very impressive. and if you're an, as wally jewish citizen, and you live there, you'll enjoy the fruits of billions of dollars and usa given to a fully functioning democracy which rivals that of any country in the world.

however, if you're a palestinian living in gaza or in the west bank, your life kind of sucks. the treatment of palestinians, according to human rights groups, is nothing short of awful. those human rights groups, right? as well as the united nations in reports that indicate the march of what israel does in gaza. and the west bank is illegal, there words which is why they have been cited repeatedly for violating international law most pointedly. because palestinians live is they say occupied citizens. that's the word they use. and some of the you on reports, citizens are generally denied adequate access to water and food and fuel or even the freedom to travel. it is something some, if not most, western reporters generally do not cover. and it's not something you're weighed in places like england or the united states media. yet, ironically,

when russia during its incursion into ukraine, damage the flow of water and electricity in the key of western media headlines, waiting about it about how russia was denying those civilians essentials like their water, their food, their electricity, violating international law and how russia should be held to account for that. is it not fair then to ask the same question of israel if the u. n is saying they're doing that? you tell me mentally, scholars call it a mile big calculus. one in which quote, israel is always the victim. but how did we get there? how do we get to this place? how does israel become so powerful in palestinian so weak? and how did the relationship become so dis, functional?

and so bangs years comes down really? historically one word, deception and one country. the okay. the united kingdom see, let me take it back after world war one. it was the british who essentially re drew the map of the middle east and did so by lying and cheating. eric's it was the arabs of the region who actually helped beat back the ottoman empire. and for doing so, the brits promised them as well as other countries that that land that includes distort . palestine would be given to them, but they be able to live there. and work it, but instead something else happens after the war world war one. the british broker promised and announced the balfour declaration establishing in palestine

a national home for the jewish people. the problem. yeah. area was 90 percent era, but the time nonetheless, beginning 1923 and lasting until about 1948. the british, facilitated a mass, jewish immigration into that area exacerbated and eventually joined on to by the united states. see about the right thing to do for the jewish people of europe who had suffered historically from anti semitism. there's no denying that culminating in the mass killings the tortures and the displacement at the hands of the nazis. the palestinians were then led to ask this question, why us? why don't we have to give up our lab? and soon afterward, they watched as their homes were confiscated by the british and turned over to jewish settlers. palestinians pushed back as best they could with strikes and boycott, some protests and peasant revolts. but the british wouldn't have it. they answered

with curfews and mass arrests and demolition. and then they even said 30000 troops in by 1947, the jewish population of the area that was originally just 10 percent had ballooned to 33 percent. but still that jewish population on my own 6 percent of alam. so once again, in step the united nations with a resolution, it was a resolution $181.00 resolution $181.00. and what that resolution 181 called for was a partition of palestine into 2 states, one jewish and one or. but the jews got the majority of the land as well as the most coastal and fertile land. and then things got even worse for palestinians. they call it knack box or the catastrophe. more than 70 percent of historic palestine had changed. hands as towns and villages were destroyed to make room for

new jewish settlers. and finally, all palestinians were left with was the west bank and the gaza strip. today. many of the descendants of those palestinians who left are scattered throughout countries like 11 on syria, jordan egypt, many of them living and squalid conditions in those countries as well. and finally, december 1948, the you and passed a resolution. it was resolution 194 resolution 194. that's a big one. it declared the palestinian refugees had the right to return to their ancestral homeland. imagine the un saying this and that sold every thing, right? i mean that's the, that's the big the right. that's the quickest central call by the united nations right? wrong then work. see by then things have gotten so hostile. neither side

accepted the plan. egypt took over the administration of the gaza strip. jordan took over the administration of the west bank by 1964 palestinians began to run their own affairs with the establishment of the p l. o and their political party for ty, pensions discount, worse and $67.00. 1967 more. israel beat back a coalition of arab armies and they did so in only 6 days called 6 day war. feeling both threatened and confident is real, occupied the rest of historic palestine after that, including the gaza strip and the west bank and east jerusalem. and some of the things we see now happened as a result of that moment, really. and they brought in more jewish settlers who moved in most were foreigners . but they were immediately afford it all the rights and privileges of as rarely citizens, while palestinians argued that they were forced to live under military occupation.

in the 19 eighties and the 90s out of palestinian anger was born. the intifada of the intifada, which a narrow it means uprising, and boy was it it brought about mass protests, riots rocked, rolling strikes, regional boycotts. and it also led to the eventual formation of how boss i, yes, that's how we got to come us. this para military group responsible for the recent surprise attack on israel, the intifada years bloody as they were got the world's attention led to the oslo accords. the establishment of the palestinian authority granted palestinian self rule in the west bank and gaza, but a 951995 is real. started building electric fences. concrete walls splitting separating the palestinian territories into 2 distinct regions where people could not interact. roads were billed for jewish settlers to pass through,

but palestinians were not allowed to use those roads. and eventually the palestinians got even more angry. and they began fighting amongst themselves in a civil war between 5 pine moss that lasted several months. and in 2007, israel imposed the land and air and naval blockade of the gaza strip, accusing a mazda of terrorism. sounds familiar since then. here's where y'all has lodged for, for track the military assaults on garza one and 2008. then in 2012 another in 20142021. and now this, this what we're seeing there now. but these pictures show and what is feared will become the most severe military assault of all. and by the time it's. busy all said and done. it's to punish them us for it's most,

according to israel. brazen attack to date. by the way, with all that history and all that said, i'd like to continue this conversation. you probably have some thoughts yourself about this history that we just discussed. you can do it with me on twitter. in fact, my handled there is rick sanchez, tv. so i'll join you on x or twitter or whatever it's called. and i'll be looking for you there. but when we come back, we're going to be joined by 2 experts on the middle east pensions, and trust me there will be tension. this is a passion of debate. my guess have much to say steve osborne and dr. norman finkelstein will respectfully, or at least as respectfully as possible, try to talk about this very passionate argument with their own perspectives. about this dire situation will be right back

the the

the, and to talk about this. we're joined now by doctor norman the finkelstein, who is an american political scientist. an active is an expert on the error is really conflict. we're also joined by tv and radio personality, syndicated columnist and political commentator who has worked with me in the past. and you've seen us together sometimes agreeing and sometimes not agreeing steve balls burg. gentleman, i'd like to thank both of you for joining us. this is a this is a heck of a thing that we're in right now, and one can't help but think. and i think we're making this point that it doesn't start with just what happened with him us. this has been taking place for some time

now, dr. finkelstein, i'd like for you to start us on this discussion of how and when this thing got out of hand to the point wherever it is now being talked about in terms of a prelude to a potential world war 3. what, what, what is the genesis of this in your eyes without, i mean being to descriptive of everything that's happened over the last 100 years, where this thing really get away from us. since 2006 when elections in the west bank and gaza, which almost won the selections, were described by former us pro. ready and jimmy carter, as quote, completely honest and fair. after the selections were held, israel and the united states and you, the european union, slap the brutal mark stating on the us or no, i would like you listeners,

these are the facts very closely. overall population, consumers, 70 percent of the refugees and sundance houses, the children know, got a lot of your listeners to your closely. nobody, with rarest exception is allowed to go into gouter or is allowed to leave, does or accordingly to monetary organizations. before october 7, half of the population of guys so was described as suffered from cindy or showed in security. let me stop you, is the professor. i'm going to, i'm going to stop you there because i think that gets to in many ways. but the genesis of the problem, and that is you do have a people who are isolated and is,

you know, that you have people who have been fine in the, you're in a concentration camp for 20 years. so that is a strong word that, that, that is a strong word. so why, but what, what the and quality the, kimberly be i'm and then to sort of see you all just from the university who described jobs. so as quote, the largest concentration can ever and i have no, and i hold on, i have read those quotes, i understand them. i understand from once that ceiling comes. i want a good stephen here. so he has an opportunity to respond to the accusation. that essentially is real, is a pressing people and doing it on purpose and has been doing it for years and years

now. how, how, what would be the response, steve, for, for that charge, which is not just being made by dr. finkelstein, we hear it all the time and the error world in the scripture do, of course you do because the palestinians teach their kids to hate the jews to kill the june. that there is no way israel, and i'm not going back in history for that. i'm going to this year the european union passed a resolution against the palestinian textbooks, which call for exactly what i said the us congress has taken that up this year as well. there's also in the palestinian authority, the moderates the good gods, but they pay for slaves. and the us congress has taken that up. they reward the families of the terrorist animals who go into israel and slaughter innocent civilian, but let's do the same. i'm not you to that but but by later that you don't want to

hear? no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't please real repressing. no, no, no. okay, no, no. what you're saying is the arrows and pals, city and pages, and that's not a show. no, no, no, no, no, i'm saying, i'm the, i'm telling you why. okay. reason why they teach their children this. yeah. on television shows in textbooks, what kind of civilization, what other civilization does that, what other people do that? okay, world for the most part with the exception of b, u. n. america at times is silent. well, as actually, if you were gonna ask me that question, and i was gonna answer at all, what doctor finkelstein answer it, but what kind of country does that actually the united states when it comes to iran, russia, china, and that as well. but that's, that's another point that's not teaching children in school and on their sesame

street. that's raising children to kill the jewel. okay. the media news shows that's a different story. okay. all right. i would argue it's not because essentially when you, every night on your newscasts, tell people that these countries are awful, that's all award start. and that's the reason the ridiculousness of a rock happened as well as afghanistan. but dr finkelstein, i'd like for you to answer his legitimate charge that if your era or come from a palestinian community or any of these and cabinets in places like jordan, you really are being told to hate jews. that sort of undeniable right. well, i'm not going to address that right now. let me address the substance of his go. his comment. ok. i asked you now if you were in to a concentration camp and you had no help whatsoever.

seeing the light of the day except those 25 miles by far as miles, no hold of a job, no of a full stomach. no how old are realizing any of your pills and dreams. and then the, sorry that besides the only few years as for all the expert reading from is rarely 20 points. most i'm know, as you know, every few years is real and it's safe time language talks about quote, mowing the lawn in god. so your oscar x were, seems to believe that they need textbooks coincides. this

is where a lease i got news for you, sir. march 3rd floor of the concentration camps. caverns did not need jewish textbooks to convince them to pay the germans. there was no life as really convinced the i'd like to i'd like to, i'd like to pause for a moment and ask a question because it doesn't seem like in this moment as apoplectic as we all are discussing this from all sides. um, i can't help but not to go back to the history of this. and let me ask you this question. call me naive. is the way it was possible to go back in history and, and do or redo the way things were shaped during the battle for agreement. where we

decided that this land would be essentially given to a people who were by the way, some of the most impressed people in the history of the world. not just due to the anti semitism that's always existed in europe, but what happened during world war 2 because of the nazis. we all understand that these are people who deserve to have a place and some dignity, but in the process of giving them that place and that dignity another people say they lost their place and their dignity. steve, that is the u. m. and the bread to do this again, should they have done it differently? should there been a more accepting way of giving jews their place and their dignity without making the people who were there feel like they lost theirs? is that a fair question? i don't think anything. what a matter the jews were attacked from the 2nd, the whole concept of israel was attacked from the 2nd it was discussed. and i think

the history that really is relevant, more relevant with all due respect to you, rick. of course. yeah, uh is, is, does. uh, i mean, 1st of all, you know, all this gives the land back. how many times have we heard over the course of many, many, many years, give the land back to the palestinians. well, when israel fort moore's in top of the sinai, and the gods are they took it from egypt when they took jerusalem and they took the westbank, they took it from jordan. and when they talked, of course, the golan heights, they took it from syria. so when they say give it back to the palestinians and they didn't have it, when is real, talk it in these wars. so i guess the, our countries stolen from the palestinians. that's number one. yeah. why does not one country in the entire arab world not want to help their brothers and take them and spread them out? you don't all want them in egypt. you don't want them in jordan,

you don't want them in syria. you don't want them. and sadie, right, what was a 1000000 come to the right of that old body wants to help them, but why this is a difficult and i'll tell you what, let's, let's pause for a moment for a moment. thank you. i'm should be sent to to make your point to make your point, but why we're going to the countries or the united states. warranty choose before to not see how it cost me. maybe the jews were like the palestinians. they were so horrible. they were so vicious they were so peace, joe, or if the current is really government calls them human animals, maybe that's why not of the european country and the united states didn't work there. yes, i think that's the reason this is not easy. this is not easy. but we're going to have the gentleman in television just tomorrow. when you have spoken smart. won't

change the fact that the very argumentative you was going to use or yeah, the you were the how much you bought. and then you're the gentleman in your argument was used by yeah. for the just as far the extermination of that use no my argument the student as the herbal and so horrible your nazi speaking uh in those parts of argument. the funny, this has become very contentious. we're going to take a break. i want to back out of our doctor. i want to thank dr norman to go to i'm going about, as well as steve malls berg for this very passionate. and as you can see, very, very interesting discussion that we have at these times filled with lots of passion as we expected. so thank you so much gentlemen. before we go,

i want to remind you of our mission. really, it's a well try and the silo the world we've got to stop living in these boxes truths don't live in boxes. they live everywhere. i'm actually interest. i'll be looking for you again, right here for i help to provide a direct impact the so to the 1st was little, what i mean. the close i filled with the mean good will which, which i'm really pleased with for the junior. my solution

will cook and you would have them, i really love myself to you to as to what to just to point to a phone call. if you please don't. so little was i mean you solution. i'm will controlling the question rolling with can you find out from national criteria awesome, of course struggle with of some of to the social media. and so the number of the walls were pointing to the luxury. despite to miss sharon, to bring the soldier monument was erected in 1947 in the estonian capital by the soviets authorities origin. any bells above the burial site of troops remains its

memorials of the soldiers who gave their lives in world war 2 will say, that's good that i need to go to the department service. good morning and for the for really traditionally in 2007, the stony and government decided to relocate the monument from the city center for, for the year on the got rid of the apartment to the sooner frustrating to move divided the population is stony, is large of russian speaking communities strongly opposed. it an intense rising broke out and talents. these have since become the, as the problems night drives people across the username and it covers the the,

[000:00:00;00] the, the for the a position associated with them. and if they had the bushes, if she could get us for the us a but for this progress clearly tells me that this was the 1st quote the, the customer knows and then the bus