is in this situation with the only so called a safe uh yeah, savings wouldn't be in the form of the, the bones. but as you know, the little has also depreciates it very much. the,

the harbor, buddy. i'm rick sanchez. i've been doing news for 30 years in 2 languages all over the world. here in the us, i've interviewed for president's work. that for the us is major television networks . i don't like what they do is he, isaac, new, should be honest, and direct and impactful. and this is direct impact the i want to start by talking about history. you say history doesn't begin when we want it to. history begins when it begins ukraine, despite what my friends in the u. s. corporate media report, for example, didn't become a story in just. busy last year it's i could probably happen closer to 2014. i

say it's just because you don't cover a story. doesn't mean it didn't happen. and so it is with this latest conflagration between israel and hum off. now don't get me wrong. there is no question that what, how mazda did, and attacking israel and killing civilians, is on its face. a barbaric act, something for which there is no place in civilized society, but that one at se, those and follow the middle east conflict does not represent the totality of his railey palestinian relations. and without understanding the past. it's kind of impossible to truly assess or even criticize the here and now which is where we are here is palestinian ambassador to the united nations re i'm, i'm sure taking a shot at the media for that very thing whose duty for

some media and politicians started twin is there a these are killed, a lot of people have endured one deadlier after another. we came to the security council months of the month, warning over the consequences of his right helium community. an international match . now to be sure, israel is unimportant, g, a political ally for the united states for this country. it's also a country that both abundant advances in technology and science and business. very impressive. and if you're in is wally jewish citizen and you live there, you'll enjoy. busy the fruits of billions of dollars and usa given to a fully functioning democracy, which rivals that of any country in the world. however, if you're a palestinian living and gaza, or in the west bank,

your life kind of sucks. the treatment of palestinians, according to human rights groups, is nothing short of awful. those human rights groups, right? as well as the united nations in reports that indicate the march of what israel does in gaza. and the west bank is illegal, their words, which is why they have been cited repeatedly for violating international law most pointedly. because palestinians live is they say occupied citizens. that's the word they use, and some of you on reports, citizens are generally denied adequate access to water and food and fuel or even the freedom to travel. it is something some, if not most western reporters generally do not cover. it's not something you'll read in places like england or the united states you media get. ironically, when russia, during its incursion into ukraine damage the flow of water and electricity in the

key of western media headlines gleamed about it. about how russia was denying those civilians essentials like their water, their food, their electricity, violating international law and how russia should be held to account for that. is it not fair then to ask the same question of israel if the u. n is saying they're doing that you tell me really, scholars call it a mile big calculus. one of the which quote, israel is always the victim. but how did we get there? how do we get to this place? how does israel become so powerful in palestinian so weak? and how did the relationship become? so this functional and so bang jesus comes down really? historically one word deception and one country.

the okay. the united kingdom, the c. let me take it back. after world war one, it was the british who essentially re drew the map of the middle east and did so by lying and cheating arrows. it was the arabs of the region who actually helped beat back the ottoman empire. and for doing so, the brits promised them as well as other countries that that land that includes distort. palestine would be given to them, but they be able to live there and work it. but instead, something else happens. after the war, world war one, the british broker promised and announced the balfour declaration establishing in palestine a national home for the jewish people. problem. the area was 90 percent era, but the time nonetheless,

beginning 1923 and last thing until about 1948. the british facilitated a mass, jewish immigration into that area exacerbated and eventually joined on to by the united states. see about the right thing to do for the jewish people of europe who had suffered historically from anti semitism. there's no denying that culminating in the mass killings the tortures and the displacement at the hands of the nazis. the palestinians were then led to ask this question, why us? why don't we have to give up our land? and soon afterward, they watched as their homes were confiscated by the british and turned over to jewish settlers. palestinians pushed back as best they could with strikes and boycott, some protests and peasant revolts. but the british wouldn't have it. they answered with curfews and mass arrest and demolition. and then they even said 30000 troops

in by 1947, the jewish population of the area that was originally just 10 percent had ballooned to 33 percent. but still that jewish population on my own 6 percent of alam. so once again, in step the united nations with a resolution, it was a resolution $181.00 resolution $181.00. and what that resolution 181 called for was a partition of palestine into 2 states, one jewish and one or. but the jews got the majority of the land as well as the most coastal and fertile land. and then things got even worse for palestinians. they call it knack box or the catastrophe. more than 70 percent of historic palestine had changed. hands as towns and villages were destroyed to make room for new jewish settlers. finally,

all palestinians were left with was the west bank and the gaza strip. today, many of the descendants of those palestinians who left are scattered throughout countries like 11 on syria, jordan egypt, many of them living and squalid conditions in those countries as well. and finally, december 1948, the you and passed a resolution. it was resolution 194 resolution 194. that's a big one. it declared the palestinian refugees had the right to return to their ancestral homeland. imagine the un saying this and that sold every thing, right? i mean that's the, that's the big the right. that's the point, a central call by the united nations right? wrong then work to say by then things have gotten so hostile neither side accepted the plan. egypt took over the administration of the gaza strip. jordan

took over the administration of the west bank by 1964 palestinians began to run their own affairs with the establishment of the p l. o and their political party for ty, pensions just got worse. and in 671967 more israel be back and coalition of air of armies. and they did so in only 6 days called 6 day war. feeling both threatened and confident is real, occupied the rest of historic palestine after that, including the gaza strip and the west bank and east jerusalem. and some of the things we see now happened as a result of that moment, really. and they brought in more jewish settlers who moved in most were foreigners . but they were immediately afforded all the rights and privileges of his riley citizens while palestinians argued that they were forced to live under military occupation. in the 19 eighties and the 90s, out of palestinian anger was born. the intifada, the intifada,

which an air of means uprising and boy was it. and they're brought about mass protests, riots, rock rolling strikes, regional boycotts. and it also led to the eventual formation of hamas. ah, yes, that's how we got to come us. this para military group responsible for the recent surprise attack on israel, the intifada years bloody as they were got the world's attention led to the oslo accords. the establishment of the palestinian authority granted palestinian self rule in the west bank and gaza, but a 951995 is real started building electric fences. concrete walls splitting separating the palestinian territories into 2 distinct regions where people could not interact. roads were billed for jewish settlers to pass through, but palestinians were not allowed to use those roads. and eventually the palestinians got even more angry. and maybe he can fighting amongst themselves in

a civil war between 5 pine mice that lasted several months. and in 2007, israel impose the land and air and naval blockade of the gaza strip, accusing a mazda of terrorism. sounds familiar since then. israel has lodged for, for track the military assaults on gaza, one and 2008. then in 2012 another in 20142021. and now this, this what we're seeing there now. but these pictures show and what is feared will become the most severe military assault of all. and by the time it's. busy all said and done. it's to punish them us for it's most, according to israel. brazen attack to date. by the way, with all that history and all that said,

i'd like to continue this conversation. you probably have some thoughts yourself about this history that we just discussed. you can do it with me on twitter. in fact, my handled there is rick sanchez, tv. so i'll join you on x or twitter or whatever it's called. and i'll be looking for you there. but when we come back, we're going to be joined by 2 experts on the middle east pensions, and trust me there will be tension. this is a passion of debate. my guess have much to say steve osborne and dr. norman finkelstein will respectfully, or at least as respectfully as possible, try to talk about this very passionate argument with their own perspectives. about this dire situation will be right back, the

russian states never as one of the most sense community best. most all sun set up the must be the one else calls question about this, even though we will fan in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on the rush to day and split the smooth net keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube the question, did you say steven closer to the

and to talk about this, we're joined now by dr. norman the finkelstein, who is an american political scientist that active is an expert on the error is really conflict. we're also joined by tv and radio personality, syndicated columnist and political commentator who's worked with me in the past and you've seen us together sometimes agreeing and sometimes not agreeing steve malls berg, gentlemen, i'd like to thank both of you for joining us. this is a, this is a heck of a thing that we're in right now, and one can't help but think. and i think we're making this point that it doesn't start with just what happened with him us. this has been taking place for some time now dr. finkelstein, i'd like for you to start us on this discussion of how and when this

thing got out of hand to the point wherever it is now being talked about in terms of a prelude to a potential world war 3. what, what, what, what is the genesis of this in your eyes without, i mean being to descriptive of everything that's happened over the last 100 years, where this thing really get away from us. since 2006 when elections in the west bank and gaza, which almost won the selections, were described by former us president jimmy carter, as quote, completely honest and fair. after the selections were held, israel and the united states and you european union, slap the brutal mark, stayed on the other. no, i would like you listeners to the facts very closely. overall population,

consumers, 70 percent of the refugees and sundance houses, the children know, got a lot of your listeners here closely. nobody with the we don't, rarest exception is allowed to go into gouter or is allowed to leave, does or accordingly to matter. terry organizations before october 7 half of the population of god so was described as suffered from c d or showed in security. let me stop you, is the professor i'm going to, i'm going to stop you there because i think that gets to in many ways. but the genesis of the problem, and that is you do have a people who are isolated and israel, that you have people who have been fine in the your, in

a concentration camp for 20 years. so that is a strong word that, that, that is a strong word. so why, but what, what the and quality the, kimberly the m and, and so, so you all just the university who described god. so as quote, the largest concentration can ever and i have and i hold on, i have read those quotes, i understand them. i understand from ones that feeling comes. i want to get steve in here. so he has an opportunity to respond to the accusation. that essentially is real, is a pressing people and doing it on purpose and has been doing it for years and years now. how, how, what would be the response, steve, for that charge, which is not just being made by dr finkelstein,

we hear it all the time and the error world. and if you do, of course you do because the palestinians teach their kids the have been to the kill the june, that there is no way israel. and i'm not going back in history for that. i'm going to this year, european union passed a resolution against the palestinian textbooks, which call for exactly what i said the us congress has taken that up this year as well. there's also in the palestinian authority, the moderates the good gods, but they pay for slaves. and the us congress has taken that up, they reward the families of the terrorist animals who go into israel and slaughter innocent civilian. but lucky the dave, i'm not due to that but, but funny to that you don't want to hear. no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't please real repressing. no, no, no. okay, no,

no. what you're saying is the arabs and pals sitting and pages and that's not a show. no, no, no, no, no, i'm saying i'm the i'm telling you why. okay. reason why they teach their children this. yeah. on television shows in textbooks, what kind of civilization, what other civilization does that, what other people do that okay world for the most part with the exception of the u . n. america at times is silent. well, as actually, if you're not asking me that question, and i was gonna answer at all, what dr. finkelstein answer it, but what kind of country does that actually the united states when it comes to a rom, russia, china, and that as well? but that's, that's another point that's not teaching children in school and on their sesame street. that's raising children to kill the jew. okay. the media knew that

shows that's a different story. okay. all right. i would argue it's not because essentially when you, every night on your newscasts, tell people that these countries are awful, that's all award start. and that's the reason the ridiculousness of a rock happened as well as afghanistan. but dr finkelstein, i'd like for you to answer his legitimate charge that if your era or come from a palestinian community or any of these and cabinets in places like jordan, you really are being told to hate jews. that sort of undeniable right. well, i'm not going to address that right now. let me address the substance of his go, his comment. ok. i asked you now if you were in to a concentration camp and you have no help whatsoever. seeing the light of the day except those 25 miles by far as miles,

no hold of a job. no of a full started. know how of realizing any of your toes and dreams and then the, sorry that the size that every few years as are all the expert reading from is really 10 points most. i'm know, i've seen that know every few years israel and it's say the language talks about quote, mowing the lawn in gossip. your order expert seems to believe that they need textbooks coincides the page. is the real lease. i got news for you,

sir. my 3rd floor of the concentration jobs did not need jewish textbooks to convince them to pay the germans. that was the reason why i was really convinced that the i'd like to i'd like to, i'd like to pause for a moment and ask a question because it doesn't seem like in this moment as apoplectic as we all are discussing this from all sides. um, i can't help but not to go back to the history of this. and let me ask you this question. call me naive. is the way it was possible to go back in history and, and do or redo the way things were shaped during the balfour agreement. where we decided that this land would be essentially given to

a people who were by the way, some of the most impressed people in the history of the world. not just due to the anti semitism that's always existed in europe, but what happened during world war 2 because of the nazis. we all understand that these are people who deserve to have a place and some dignity, but in the process of giving them that place and that dignity another people say they lost their place and their dignity. steve, it is the u. m. and the brits to do this again, should they have done it differently? should there been a more accepting way of giving jews their place and their dignity without making the people who were there feel like they lost theirs? is that a fair question? i don't think anything. what a matter the jews were attacked from the 2nd, the whole concept of israel was attacked from the 2nd it was discussed. and i think the history that really is relevant, more relevant with all due respect to you, rick. of course. yeah, it is. is, uh does. uh, i mean, 1st of all, you know,

all this gives the land back. how many times have we heard over the course of many, many, many years, give the land back to the palestinians. well, when israel fort moore's in top of the sinai, and the gods are they took it from egypt when they took jerusalem and they took the west bank, they took it from jordan. and when they talked, of course, the golan heights, they took it from syria. so when they said give it back to the palestinians because they didn't have it, when is real, talk it in these wars. so i guess the, our countries stolen from the palestinians. that's number one. yeah. why does not one country in the entire arab world not want to help their brothers and take them and spread them out? you don't want them in egypt. you don't want them in jordan, you don't want them in syria. you don't want them. and sadie wright, with a 1000000 come to the right of that old body, wants to help them. but why this is

a difficult question? i'll tell you what, let's. let's pause for a moment for a moment. thank you. goes on shopping centers to make your point to make your point, but why we're going to the countries or the united states. warranty choose before to not see how the cost may may be the jews were like the palestinians. they were so horrible. they were so vicious they were, so bes joe, or if the current is really government calls them human animals, maybe that's why not of the european countries and the united states didn't want their different that's the reason. this is not easy. this is not easy, but we're going to have the gentleman in television just tomorrow. the stupid smart won't change the fact that the very argument you was going to use or

yeah, the you were use the how much you buy it and then use the gentleman in your argument was used by hitler to justify the extermination of that. you know, that's my argument. why don't give me a so airable and so horrible your nazi speaking. i was part of argument the funny this has become very contentious. we're going to take a break. i want it back tomorrow. far not. i'm our doctor. i want to thank dr norman to go to i'm going about as well as steve malls berg for this very passionate. and as you can see, very, a very interesting discussion that we have at these times filled with lots of passion as we expected of thank you so much gentlemen. before we go, i want to remind you of our mission. really it's well try and the silo the world

we've got to stop living in these boxes truths don't live in boxes, they live everywhere. i'm rick sanchez. i'll be looking for you again right here. bright health to provide a direct impact the previously i'm going to us on the go to the quickest post the claim. you know the procedure. so when you get to the old and you start a consolidated move, so it's going to weigh like this. but there was no sign pretty much slip or

something. i just thought it would cause the punch was that the good that was for harold was go for the for the other boys alone. the question of the money, i mean you love seeing those words isn't like i do live most schools do. if you look for the initial do while i pull up significantly post on zillow, while it be honest, can use the body. what do you do origin. but the office, the was done, the newest frame on the belief systems to good ludy what i see these the buses. the little cute

little dyson says this to the, to the most of the largest possible in gaza is said to be on the ring to good pastor to be with feel supplies close to running out for the is the safety proof. so anything you provide will be allowed into the task is really refusing a temporary truce that doesn't include the release of all hostages. israel will not able beyond from fuel into guys. part of this is gather, interested in coin for the nation is ready. prime is so that his failure to rescue the opposite is taken by from us a month with a policy and just takes off his footsteps and get and live on. and it's.