children killed by nature, nation back multi 1000000000 dollar military industrial complex. un secretary general engineer gutierrez, won the world not to treat the atrocities of october. the 7th is if a happened to in the vacuum, and no historian has done more to explain the context of mass murder in palestine than professor eli and pop a director of the art. the incentive of allison in studies at the university of exeter and author of the ethnic cleansing of palestine, these in haifa, partition from palestine by the u. n. and 1947 progressive i thank you so much for coming on again on the going on the guy last time you were on the for a book that probably educated the so many of those demonstrating in those native nations against what's happening in the middle east right now i've got to really begin by asking you why the lack of compassion across the israel, for gods, or i know a lot of the images, a sense of the nature of nations, presumably in israel as well, but why the lack of seeming compassion for what the rest of the world is seeing israel's troops due to gaza, to thank you,

living you once again having me once again on your, on your program. i think that there's nothing you in the way under level compression is you say, i mean i've been experiencing it normally for the service of october. if i tried to speak with israelis additional and the human side of the catastrophe was 1948, i failed to see any compassion i. ready remember the, the at tech on goes in to us in 2014 with then by the high a number. ready of to learn killed and i couldn't it extract any compassionate reaction for most of these really dues i knew and definitely there was no compassion conveyed through the main and media or through the the disclose of the politician. why is it happening? i think this has a lot to do with. ready nature. ready of, of design isn't as

a circular colonial movement. i mean, you have to go to the origins and they're like many of the cervical even movies like the ones that establish the united states and australia, for instance, in order to get rid of the native indigenous population you had to do when i the 1st and foremost and, and there's nothing you in the way is raised the perceived most of the other thing is even the young ones as potential enemies, as an existential danger. they are not getting to that conclusion by themselves. that is the outcome of the very uh, deep indoctrination educational system and it is sustained by the media. i mean you, you just have to he. ready the benjamin antonio's language when he talks about the palestinians. people think that this is a new language because of what happens of the 7 of october. but this is because people have very short memory. he spoke the same the way as well. it is going to be,

or is it by minister and do you probably remember yourself prime minister begging and the way he talked about that i thought in 1980 do during these 80 invasions of live and let me go bed out of 5 to hitler in the bunker, so i'm afraid that this is not unique to the particular. a catastrophe that we are witnessing at today. it's a more structural is rarely joyce perception. i would say racist deception or the palestinians as a sub humans or in for you mean as some of our new trends like these a, a likes to research or government and government as well. and so i might say that that lack of compassion is reflected, of course, in london, berlin and notably washington had not wanting a cease fire. do you think that many jews in what was palestine understand that the biblical prophecy did do by the american christian rights from which uh,

american politicians get the revo just from that they end up uh, believing in your day or side on the day of judgment to do you think they understand that a this is very little boy the i, i remember the, the, the, the honeymoon between venture mean that them, you know, when he was still a, these really and bustle. ready to the united nation, he started in 1992 as this serious connection with the, the christian designers. and he was asked about these uh, you know, the find letters in the contract, mainly the jews would be either barbecued, didn't have all the to do research on it in this design scenario, the end of time. and he said that doesn't matter. now with mentors is that now we have genuine headlines and i think that's how these ladies treated. but moses res,

i would say i'm aware of course of this. and they just a very even though right, they don't know very much and their media feeds them. that's kind of narrative and historical knowledge which fits the ideology and the propaganda rather than allows them to be accurate that those thinkers and, and take a more independent position towards the reality. so given what we've been seeing in recent weeks, always seeing the beginning of the end, or could we be seeing the end of israel project? it's a very good question i, i think that uh the internal is really was that uh, kind of raised me full of the savings of october between what i told the state of do the name the, the state of the settlers. let's see on a deal practice from the minute the list and the state at least the most secular. um kind of multi cultural version of these really up i think were fighting each

other for the future. i think this a despite the fact that it has stopped, of course, because of the war will be resumed very soon. i. ready really can see the integration void arriving again, this implosion soul with n. i think that indicates always a precursor. uh for the beginning of the end or, or the end of, of the beginning if you want. but i do warm you and the viewer as any story and as these processes which we to as beginning of and then can be quite long in our lifetime. uh and more important there. uh like dishes and fee is. uh we remember the last days of uh a buffet, so as africa and is the mother and it seems like that and therefore yes, i do think that the. ready validity of this project is not holding water

and it'd be the levy, the right the. ready he's, he's really don't really so the knowledge it seems as we're going to. ready is only 2 options and i agree with him either a knew nothing about. and this is unfolding in front of our eyes as we speak or a one democratic state. ready ready and i still hope, and it has to be in an active list as well as in the story. and it has to be optimised is the despite be the unfolding of the 1st option and maybe with the international. ready regional intervention, we might build the basis for the 2nd option. there's no 3rd option. the present reality will not stay forever. so it's either adult as the fast or feet or hopefully building a very different future for those. but this thing is andrews in the story to let him know by this time. and of course, accompanying all of this uh, these uh, warships and perhaps one of the largest nato nation. ahmad is in history in the eastern mediterranean. the form is extra generally i really i'm unless it runs out

. it is joe smiled when i asked, why is it everyone keeps invoking iran when it comes to it? i'm us. a sunni organizations is a poetry and it's some guys is the u. s. policy in syria drained with went through a president that said, how successfully is, how successful is the media and that you know, and joe biden. and your b indeed is in trying to make out that this is somehow to do with a ron. the october 7th attack, this is i think we have the best the letter. it is a we have something that i. ready that the best, the pretext with the context and namely people use the 7th of october as a pretext to implement policies that were unable to implementing food before. let's take the americans, the americans use the, the, the events of the service of october or is it predicts to resend a research military presence in the area and to try and win back. some of that has

them on the they have lost and due to their failed policies after 2001 is really does use the event as a pretext to implement massive asked me cleansing, which they could not implemented during a time of no more. i do for the time of peace because there was no fees, but if he's entitled no war is really is fully aware of the viewing of. ready or you can do much more in terms of mass explosions. then you can do uh during the time of now. ready or so, yes i, i do think that this is one method of not do the other one is of course, to, to build this story that the earnings behind everything like and also boost. it sends all its, uh, you know, whatever you call them hands into, into, oh, oh, faxing, things into, into various areas. instead of, you know,

listening to the secretary general's the united nation, who would say, how much does it need to you're on the listing is the only do you're on uh to resist the throughout the use of the. ready of your patient colonization and oppression against these ladies. there's no need for any power from the outside with the region, little international to pay like personalized people who are exposed to ethnic cleansing. and now getting the size of the policies. they don't need someone from the outside to tell. ready to try and was is the to drive to the. ready road stop the end stuff this uh colonization. an impression uh its but incredible how some intelligent people in the west repeating. ready a narrative which comes out of the hollywood budget has nothing to do with the reality on the drought. and anyone who knows the other thing is driving from the very beginning. knows as christians and muslims are involved in it, that it has a very str. ready left

a side to it as well. that is relies on a russia and china and iran in brazil. and other countries are willing to challenge the american hegemony. i mean, this is a typical says, well, i'm the belong in this drug. ready that just in terms of period these ation is outside the convention, the framework of most of the empty colonial and successful strategies that happened totally between the 1970s until the end of the last century. but this is an ongoing struggle. the last of that period they just didn't materialize it. i know there's a picture on social media and change of our in, in gaza doing the rounds. and it was louise also who we interviewed on this. show the president of bolivia as of to 7 diplomatic relations with the x ray, we saw columbia acting energy savers, old china, russia, all these different voices quietly confident that the arab world doesn't really

matter when it comes to what's happening in guys that regardless of apparently as somebody's in saudi arabia inside the they don't really have any impact into what happens to palestinians and all the thousands of children being killed. yes, but the, it's a very who's the position by the, are of the james. because i like the genes themselves. the societies are very broad, the listing is still regard. palestine is a symbol for. ready of the struggling will be out of. ready all together to be deliberated, to fries and to progress. so i'm going a such a leeway against the wishes of most of the people who live in the, in these are countries can, that can be very dangerous in the future. i think it's not a coincidence that during the so called the spring assume many of the

demonstrators don't themselves with about us being in a flag. i think there is a kind of an understanding that there is a very complex reality here. you have some regions that assignment committed to the struggle on the side of the better state is like the syrian one and the same time, they also have their own issues of human rights and civil rights. that the out of little ones, ones 2 souls which gives you a very clear indication that without a just solution for the palestine question, the other will not be able to deal with issues of human rights and civil rights release itself from the grip of american imperialism. and build itself as an independent any both in active and international relations hasn't gone by. how stop you the more from the director of europe, you incentive about a senior and sadly, isn't the university of extra after this break the

the, the,

the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the renown to story and then all of the all the ethnic cleansing of alice and have as a non profit. well, we were talking about instability in this region, but of course it becomes increasingly clear that in the same nato countries arming the ledge, genocide in gaza. this seems to be a degree of instability given the british politicians are considering binding the palestinian flag in uh, in britain of shocking the obviously the united states wouldn't do that. they have a, they have a 1st amendment. what makes this conflict and, and as i say in a genocide occurring now, so different in terms of blow back when it comes to a civic society in the united states in western europe. i think this in both the states, the very beginning that is a risk that gives this event is it doesn't. it's all the game changer it's,

it's uh, was however, the events in guys that will unfold is right. it would still be in a positive state design isn't, would still be a circular, colonial state. and the other thing would still be colonized people struggling with very little regional and international help to try and when they're at negotiation independence and treat them. so i think that it, when you, you view it from that perspective, you can see that there is, there may be a change in the level sup. ready of the civil society maybe it's even more. ready moving to higher then it was and there it and exactly the, the mirror image of it. there is even less solar and by the government's in the west to allow freedom of speech on palestine. i think all this would, fortunately or unfortunately depends how you look at it, go back to its previous levels. namely,

i'm afraid that the level is also the directors of both for the police being is, would not be the same after the events and goes again. however, they would end at but on the other end, i'd quite sure that the draconian measures the division government for example, is taken, may not really stay in place. so that's a really shows us that as active is especially in the solely donkey movement. we should think about this is a chapter that a lot as a, as a, as an event i'll, i'll just call tags and everything we faced as challenges. and the biggest challenge we have this nice being the global rules and in the west is the civil society that he's very broke on this thing and, and yet unable until today to have any significant. ready insights on the policies of the governments towards palestine. this is that for me, the main issue i'm, i'm, i'm less vista though though it's, i'm outraged schools when president biden,

it tries to explain why he does not support the chinese and russian calling for a ceasefire, which is the. ready normal and, and, and the right thing to do, i know thing how, how they can sleep at night knowing what it means, not to a cold for a, seized by, but only known. i don't think that this is that different toler policies in the future in the past, and i'm afraid this will be also the policies in the future. i do, my only hope is that somehow the civil societies and so the, during the movement made even was them, well, maybe the world would step upgrade. the call is what you want this. all you gotta do with it, but this thing is and make it to month and much more effective factor in changing the reality on the ground. not just in. ready the distilled agend, assigning goes up, but also to change the reality because as you probably know, more than 100,

but as these were killed since the beginning of the service of october in the west bank sizes have been arrested without trying and about a student and citizens and israel being harassed daily, and by the police and andrew citizen. so we have here a situation where all the other students all over historically, by this thing need urgently the international community and the region to intervene because they're in balance of power. at this moment that history is against them, or is there a change because as per events of the un security council of to me, you a back resolution? it is now okay. according to london, berlin, washington. that the killing children, invoice numbers on the basis of their ethnicity is okay. now as a self defense that's now being established. yeah. you know i,

i'm even willing to give them some sort of a margin of, of doubt that they do not fully understand. and it's only about the, the leaders at what the error message they're supposed to is, or how the message to support in it do is read. it is understood by these ratings and it'll be above the society in the police. believe this, you like it is these mass, you know, if you don't follow them and causally, these really flat colors are these readings like all the, the, the iphone dollar with the colors of these various leg. he's right, he's understand, it is a mess. it says we absorbs you for all the things you have done until the service of a builder, and you had another free license to do whatever you want, regardless of international and the laws laws in, in the guise of state. i'm not sure every american, every british policy makers uh, is, is,

this is the kind of message they want. it is well that to have, i still hope some of them are the logical of humanity in them. uh, but what we know from the story is a design is low, be in america and in britain, even if they would have no doubts whether they took the right decision by giving is rarely stopped lunch. they would be very timid and careful not to a challenge. these are, you know, be in the countries and, and be, you know, exp. ready as to allegations of, of the same it isn't and so on. so it's, it's a situation where they are in the reputable, the day themselves put themselves in it. and this is an assumption that lease, some of them are not as, as colors as you have just described them, you know, totally in different due to the images and, and india and the repose we are getting on the not on the basis. it's on the guys

as good. well, they were proud about if you trucks coming across the rafa crossing, of course, and for all the international isolation of these nato powers. as regards what's happening, why do you think, well, have them be approved? you then change in being these administrations mean it's so necessary to talk about a 2 state solution after all the work you've done after all the work. so many scholars have done it to explain why only a one state solution will solve this question. it is interesting to say that i, i spend the very excellent 2 weeks in china in the beginning of this month's teaching. and so in. ready the universe, these summit, few diplomats from the chinese foreign ministry, then i put that question to them as well. and i think the

the mission that the both the russians floor and ministry and it's a nice long list. a few of them now is do at least challenge the new this goes the west is booking and that's what matters now is to. ready is to implement is the destructive policies and only pay it looks service to a solution in the future. so in any way it is, i hope it is destined to indicate that these 2 powers, these 2 global powers might be more involved in the future. and i still learning what should be the original position, because i think also china, china and russia. and he's recently, you know, if you think about the russian participation in the board tabs before we're allowing the west and especially in the united states to be the main mediate. and really this owners both are but to the domain broker. if they want to replace it

with maybe other countries, like the zealand south africa is broke, is probably they would have to study again, the origins of the conflict, the essence of the conflict. and hopefully they would understand that the 2 state solution is not viable anymore. and if there is an international pressure, it should be towards a different kind of political solution. of course, given this discussion between us, it would pull any member of netanyahu's cabinets and a left wing so called left clicking is riley's, how desperate, good, uh, israel, and i mean that you all good of course. go to jail any way after this car in to the beginning, but uh, how desperate could the is really leads get what is the nuclear weapon threats in israel and i think,

but so far i really cannot predict. uh i, i can only tell you what i think happened. so. ready far at these really uh elite is made of 2 main uh, components $11.00 is the political one and the other one is the security organization which includes the army and most of the secret service and so on. i do today uh the additions where contains a limited. ready there extra is against your, um, by the people who are paying for all the security at there, so to speak. however, there is a demographic changing those institutions. and quite a lot of people who come from the 2nd lens are now beginning to climb up in the actual loans, also have the security services. so i don't know how long this more goes more pragmatic, you know, even more rest. and i'm willing to give it to them. ready or i shall approach

towards the around all the use of nuclear weapons. how long will it be sustained if i'm, if my fear, which will become true, that the demographics, both that particular military and so use the lead, would exchange at which time? uh it, by the way this, this lead does not have the speed as you obviously can see it. they, oh, they totally agree with the presentations about the, the, the destruction of the palestinians and genocide, the policies and ethnic cleansing policy. but when it comes to regional war, i think they're a bit more bushes then they are right, we politicians. so we have to watch and see whether this balance of power is changing. in order to fully answer your a right to an important question. promising you not a problem, i thank you. thank you very much. and that's it for the show. and condolences from

the whole team here, we're going underground to those bereaved by the ongoing violence here in the middle east. we'll be back in the brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch by a little less social media if it's not sensors and your country. and then to our channel going underground tv on normal dot com to watch new and old episodes of going on dependencies after the tab to the establishment of the bosses for his email is been in 1933. the position of the indigenous population in the portuguese colonies deteriorated dramatically, especially in angola. decatur, antonio de, i live at salazar,

encourage colonizing the end goal in lands by europeans, and sought after turning the country into a portuguese province. where the and goldens would be 2nd class people. in 1961, there was an outbreak of violence on the part of the portuguese, in revenge for the plantation workers, dry portuguese aircraft bomb. the villages in northern angola and race riots took place in african parts of lawanda. the people of angelo rose in an armed rebellion . the roots atlas of the colonialists knew no bounds. despite the un calls to stop the islands, the portuguese only intensified their terror against the rebels. the 40s actively used the political contradictions between various groups of rambles during the war . colonial aircraft regularly use a farm and drop the fully ends on peaceful villages. the portuguese empire was severely exhaust is either struggle against the national liberation movements. the

revolution in portugal brought down the faucet, raising, and put it in to the murder as war against the people of angola. on january 15, 1975, the elbow or agreements were assigned and the country gained independence after so many years of the brutal war, the the, the

the, they can see it right there, that's be no laptop and the, it's rarely on slowed on gaza ami analysis of a split the enclave into 2 that has gone to city now completely surround a great milestone is reached and the full week conflict. as local officials claim the number of published against killed is now suppose the $10000.00 to the box. and some of the survivors from shed estimates and i tried to get up and so that i had to stop. i tried to remove it, but unfortunately i noticed that one leg was already turned off and the other was broken again. and as a result, my leg was going off, want to leave a normal life. we are tied, there is no to life. any one might seek to take advantage.