it would flow through immediately if a mouse would release the hostages, i mean they're, they're using the hostages and, and the civilians and gaza as, as sort of their, their, their shields. if they released the hostages, i think you'd see the, the 8 flo immediately. now there's still concerns that they would be stealing the fuel in the food and the other parts of the, of the humanitarian aid. but perhaps the united nations could intervene and make sure that that gets into the hands of people. it belongs to just that 8 actually goes through. but i think that last really has the opportunity to slow things down, pause things and and that and gets as you manage, hearing a if they cared about the palestinian people in gaza now. well said indeed, right? yeah, husband, friends of holland, that is the b o is a pleasure as a my have to end of the items again for your time as well as of this. and he is as always a pleasure. and so have you with us here on auntie. in the meantime, to count on to the most interesting stories of that,

we'll be back in about 30 minutes with the latest global news around up. we'll have to diagnose them the i'm action or times a welcome back to going underground broadcast people around the world from the u. a . it's been just over a month since israel failed to prevent massive palestinian resistance, retaliation for decades of slaughter in gaza. the response from television is thousands of children killed by nature, nation back multi $1000000000.00 military, industrial complex, un secretary general engineer gutierrez, won the world not to treat the atrocities of october the 7th, as if it happened in

a vacuum. and no historian has done more to explain the context of mass murder in palestine and professor. you then pop a director of the art, the incentive about us indian studies at the university of exeter and author of the ethnic cleansing of palestine. these in haifa, partition from palestine by the u. n. and 1947. professor vadlira, thank you so much for coming on. again, on the going, i'm the guy last time you were on the for a book that probably educated the so many of those demonstrating in those native nations against what's happening in the middle east right now i've got to really begin by asking you why the lack of compassion across the israel, for god's or i know a lot of the images, a sense of the nature of nations presume in israel as well. but why that lack of seeming compassion for what the rest of the world is. seeing israel's troops due to gaza to thank you, living you once again having me once again on your, on your program, i think that there's nothing you in the way under level compression is you say,

i mean i've been experiencing it long before the services looked older. if i tried to speak with is really just on the human side of the catastrophe is 1948, i failed to see any compassion. i remember the, the at tech on guys in 122014 with the event by the high a number. ready of children killed and i couldn't it extract any compassionate reaction for most of these really dues i knew and definitely there was no compassion conveyed through the main and media. also, it was the the disclose of the politician. why is it happening? i think this has a lot to do with. ready nature. ready of design isn't as a circular colonial movement. i mean, you have to go to the origins and they're like many of the cervical, even movies like the ones that establish the united states and australia. if,

for instance, in order to get rid of the native indigenous population you had to do when i the 1st and foremost and, and there's nothing you in the way is raise the the see. most of the other thing is even the young ones as potential enemies. as an existential danger, they are not getting to that conclusion by themselves. that is the outcome of the very uh, deep indoctrination educational system and it is sustained by the media. i mean you, you just have to he. ready the benjamin antonio's language when he talks about the palestinians, people think that this is a new language because of what happens of the 7, the silver. but this is because people have very short memory. you spoke this say the way as well. it is going to be or is it by minister and do you from the. ready member yourself prime minister banging and the way he talked about effect in 1980

do is during these really invasion of live alone when you compared alpha to get to the bunker. so i'm afraid that this is not unique to the particular. a catastrophe that we are witnessing it today. it's the most structurally is riley joyce perception, i would say races, deception, or the palestinians as a sub humans or in for you mean as some of our new trends, like z, z a and likes to research or government and government as well. and some i'd say is inside lack of compassion is reflected, of course, in london, berlin and notably washington had not wanting a cease fire. do you think that many jews in what was palestine understand that the biblical prophecy did do by the american christian rights from which uh, american politicians get the vote just from that. they end up uh, believing in your day or side on the day of judgment to do you think they understand

that this is very little boy the i i remember the, the early the honeymoon between binge. i mean that the me, when he was still a, these really and bustle go to the united nation, he started in 1992, this serious connection with the, the christian designers. and he was asked about these a, you know, the find letters in the contract, mainly the jews would be either barbecued, didn't have the ultimate to do research on it in this design scenarios the end of time. and he said that doesn't matter. now with mentors is that now we have genuine headlines and i think that's how these ladies are treated. but moses res, i would say underwear of course of. ready and they just a very even though right, they don't know very much and their media feeds them. that's kind of narrative and

historical knowledge which fits the ideology and the propaganda rather than allows them to be accurate of those thinkers and, and take a more independent position towards the reality. so given what we've been seeing in recent weeks, always seeing the beginning of the end, or could we be seeing the end of the israel project? it's a very good question. and i, i think that, uh, the internal is really was that, uh, kind of raised me full the savings of october between with i both the state of do the name, the, the state of the settlers. let's see on a field practice from the minute the list and the state at least the most secular. um kind of multicultural version of these really up i think were fighting each other for the future. i think this a despite the fact that it has stopped, of course, because of the war will be resumed very soon. i. ready really can see the integration

void arriving again. this implosion from within. i think it indicates always a precursor. uh for the beginning of the end of all the end of, of the beginning if you want. but uh, i do warm you and the viewer as an historian, as these processes which we to as beginning of an end, can be quite long in our lifetime. uh and more important there, uh like dishes and fees. we remember the last days of uh, a buffet, so as africa and is the mother and it seems like that and, and therefore yes, i do think that the, the. ready validity of this project is not holding water and it'd be the levy, the right the. ready he's a is really, don't really say the knowledge. it seems as we're going to is only 2 options. and i

agree with him. either a knew nothing about. and this is unfolding in front of our eyes as we speak, or a one democratic state for. ready and i still hold, but it has to be in an active list as well as a new story. and it has to be optimised the despite the, the unfolding of the 1st option and maybe was into nash. ready and regional intervention, we might build the basis for the 2nd option. there's no 3rd option. the present reality will not stay forever. so it's either adult, the task to feed or hopefully building a very different future for those. but this thing is andrews in the story. the lender, by this time and of course, accompanying all of this uh these uh, warships and perhaps one of the largest nato nation. ahmad is in history in the eastern mediterranean. the form is extra, genuinely, i really gamma most runs out. it is, joe smiled when i asked, why is it everyone gives invoking iran when it comes that i'm us assume the

organization does a boat and it's some guys is the u. s. policy in syria trying to went through a president that said, how successfully is how successful is the media en espanol and joe biden. and your b indeed is in trying to make out that this is somehow to do with a ron the october 7th attack. this is, i think we have the best, the narratives and we have something that i agree. ready with the best, the pre text with the context. and namely people use the same as a builder, as a pretext to implement policies that were unable to implementing food before. let's take the americans. the americans use the, the, the events of the service of october or is it predicts to resend all research military presence in the, in the area and to try and win back. some of that has them on the they have lost and due to their failed policies after 2001 is really

does use the event as a pretext to implement massive asked me cleansing, which they could not implemented during a time of no more. i do for the time of peace because there was no fees, but if he's entitled no war is really is fully aware of the viewing of. ready or you can do much. ready in terms of mass explosions, then you can do uh during the time of the. ready work so yes i, i do think that this is one method of not do the other one is of course, to, to build this story that the earnings behind everything like and also boost. it sends all its, uh, you know, whatever you call them hands into into, or. ready faxing things into, into various areas. instead of, you know, listening to the secretary general's the united nation, who would say, how much does it need to you're on the listing is don't need to, you're on uh to resist the throughout the use of the. ready of your

patient colonization and oppression against these ladies. there's no need for any power from the outside with the regional or international to pay like personalized people who are exposed to ethnic lensing and now getting the size of the policies. they don't need someone from the outside to tell. ready to try and was a is then to drive to the. ready road stop the end stuff this going on. these ation and oppression. it's but incredible how some intelligent people in the west repeating this. a narrative which comes out of the hollywood budget has nothing to do. that will be reality on the drought. and anyone who knows the other thing is driving from the very beginning, knows as christians and muslims are involved in that that it has a very str. ready left a side to it as well. that is relies on a russian on china and iran in brazil. and other countries are willing to challenge

the american hegemony. i mean, this is a typical says will be belong in this drug. ready that just in terms of period the zation is outside the convention. the framework of most of the empty colonial and successful is driving that happened totally between the 1970s until the end of the last century. but this is an ongoing struggle that belongs to that period. they just didn't materialize it. i know there's a picture on social media and change of our in, in gaza doing the rounds. and it was louise also who we interviewed on this. show the president of bolivia has of to 7 diplomatic relations with he is right. we so columbia acting energy savers, old china, russia, all these different voices quietly confident that the arab world doesn't really matter when it comes to what's happening in guys that regardless of a pattern, the summit in saudi arabia, inside the,

they don't really have any impact into what happens to palestinians and all the thousands of children being killed? yes, but the, it's a very steep. ready ocean by the hour of the genes because i like the genes themselves and societies are very broad. the listing is still regard. palestine is a symbol for. ready the struggle will be out of. ready ready together to be deliberated, to fries and to progress. so i'm going a such a leeway against the wishes of most of the people who live in the, in these are countries can, that can be very dangerous in the future. i think it's not a coincidence. the, during the so called the, i don't know, spring assume many of the demonstrators don't themselves with about us being in a flag. i think there is a kind of an understanding that there is

a very complex reality here. you have some regions that assignment committed to the struggle on the side of the better state is like the syrian one and the same time, they also have their own issues of human rights and civil rights. that the auto blue ones, ones 2 souls which gives you a very clear indication that without a just solution for the palestine question, the other will not be able to deal with issues of human rights and civil rights release itself from the grip of american imperialism. and build itself as an independent and in both in actor and international relations hasn't gone by how stop you, the more from the director of europe, you incentive about us any and sadly, isn't the university of extra after this break the,

the, the, [000:00:00;00] the,

[000:00:00;00] the, the welcome back to going underground, i'm still here with the renown to story and then also all the ethnic cleansing of palestine president in on papa. well, we were talking about instability in this region, but of course it becomes increasingly clear that in the same nato countries all being the ledge genocide in gaza. this seems to be a degree of instability given the british politicians are considering binding the palestinian flag in uh, in britain of shocking the obviously the united states wouldn't do that. they have a, they have a 1st amendment. what makes this conflict and, and as i say in

a genocide occurring now, so different in terms of blow back when it comes to a civic society in the united states. in western europe. the exist in both the states, the very beginnings that is a risk because this event is it doesn't, it's all the game changer it's, it's uh was however, the events in does that. ready unfold is right, it would still be in the pocket state design isn't, would still be a circular colonial state in the listing. it would still be a colonized people struggling with very little regional and international help to drive and when they're at negotiation, independence and freedom. so so i think that is where you, you, you and from that perspective you can see that there is, there may be a change in the leg. ready also. ready to the civil society, maybe it's even more. ready movie, it's higher then it was and there it and exactly the, the mirror image of it. there is even less solar and by the government's in the

west to allow freedom of speech and on palestine. i think all this would, fortunately or unfortunately depends how you look at it go back to its previous levels. namely, i'm afraid that. ready level is also the directors of both for the police being is, would not be the same after the events and goes again however they would and it was on the other end. i'm quite sure that the draconian measures the basic government, for example, is taking may not really stay in place. so that's a really shows us that as active is especially in the solely donkey movement. we should think about. this is a chapter that a lot as a, as a, as an event, i'll just call tags and everything we faced as challenges. and the biggest challenge we have this needs to be in the global most and in the west is the civil society that he's very broke on this thing and, and yet unable until today,

to have any significant insights on the policies of the governments towards palestine. this is that for me is a main issue i'm, i'm, i'm less vista though though it, i'm outraged schools when president biden, it tries to explain why he does not support the chinese and russian coal for a ceasefire, which is the most normal and right thing to do i know thing how, how they can sleep at night, knowing what it means not to a cold forest east by but only known. i don't think that this is that different toler policies in the future in the past, and i'm afraid this will be. ready the policies in the future i did, my only hope is that somehow the civil societies and so the, during the movement maybe that was them. well maybe the or will i would step upgrade. the call is what you want. visually, diety, with about his being is and making the month and much more effective,

fixed or in changing the reality on the ground. not just in. ready the distilled agend, assigning does a but also to uh, change the reality because as you probably know more than 100 but this thing is word field. since the beginning of the 7th of october and the west bank sizes have been arrested without trying. and the palestinian citizens and israel being harassed daily and by the police and andrew citizen. so we have here a situation. ready were all the other students all over historically, by this thing, need urgently the international community in the region to intervene because they're in balance of power at this moment that history is against them. or is there a change because as per events of the un security council of to be you a back resolution? it is now okay. according to london, berlin washington said that killing children,

invoice numbers on the basis of their ethnicity is okay. now, as the self defense that's now being established. yeah. you know i, i'm even willing to give them some sort of a margin of doubt that they do not fully understand. and that's only about the, the leaders at what their messages supposed to is, or how their message to support. and it was very, is understood by these ratings. and i told him about this aside in the, but it is the leadership. i like it is these mass, you know, if you don't follow them and houses are these really flat colors, are these red flags or the that the i some dollars with the colors of these ladies like he's right. he's understand, it is a message that says we absolve you from all those things you have done until the service of october and you have another free license to do whatever you want

regardless of international. and then are you in those was in, in the gaza strip. i'm not sure every american, every british policy makers uh, is, is, this is the kind of message they want to do as well. but to have, i still hope some of them are the logical of humanity in them. uh, but what we know from the story is a design is low, be in america and in britain. even these, they would have no doubts whether they took the right decision by giving is rarely stopped lunch. they would be very timid and careful not to a challenge. these are, you know, be in the countries and, and be a, you know, exposed to allegations of, of the same it is and so on. so it's, it's a situation where they are in the reputable that they themselves put themselves in it. and this is an assumption that lease some of them are not as,

as colors as you have just described them, you know, totally in different due to the images and, and, and the, and, and the repos we're getting on and i'll on the basis it's only does this good, while they were proud about if you trucks coming across the graphic crossing, of course, and for all the international isolation of these nato powers. as regards what's happening, why the using violent be approved, you then change in being leads, administration, speed it so necessary to talk about a 2 state solution after all the work you've done after all the work. so many scholars have done it to explain why only a one state solution will solve this question. it is interesting to say that i, i spend the very excellent 2 weeks in china in the beginning of this month teaching . and so in. ready universe, these summit,

few diplomats from the chinese foreign ministry and i put that question to them as well. and i think the the mission that the both the russians floor and ministry and it's a nice long list, a few, let them know. ready as do at least challenge the new this goes the west is putting that's what matters now is. ready so is road to implemented the destructive policies and only pay it looks service to a solution in the future. so in any way it is, i hope it is destined to indicate that these 2 powers, these 2 global powers, might be more involved in the future. and i still learning what should be the original position, because i think also china, china and russia. and he's recently, you know, if you think about the russian participation,

the part that before where allowing the west and especially in the united states to be the main mediate. and really this all of this boker, but to the domain broker. if they want to replace it with maybe other countries, like their busy lives, south africa is broke, is probably they would have to study again, the origins of the conflict, the essence of the conflict. and hopefully they would understand that the 2 state solution is not viable anymore. and if there is an international pressure, it should be towards a different kind of political solution. of course, given this discussion between us, it would help pull any member of netanyahu's cabinet. and that alone a left wing, so called left clicking is riley's, how desperate, good, uh, israel, and i mean that you all good of course go to jail anyway after this car in terms of

kidding. but uh, how desperate could the is really leads get, what is the nuclear weapon threats in israel and i think, but so far i, i really cannot predict. uh i, i can only tell you what i think happened so far at these really uh elite is made of 2 main uh, components 11 is the political one and the other one is the security organization which includes the army and most of the secret service and so on to do today the additions where contained a limited in their extremes against iran, by the people who are paying for all the security a pillar, so to speak. however, there is a demographic changing those institutions. and quite a lot of people who come from

a certain lens are now beginning to climb up in the actual loans, also have the security services. so i don't know how long this more goes more pragmatic, you know, even more rest. and i'm willing to give it to them. ready or i shall approach that was the around all the use of nuclear weapons. how long will it be sustained if i'm, if my fear, which would become true, that the demographics fullstep declare military and so use the lead with exchange at which time? uh it, by the way, this, this uh lead does not have the bonus being, as you obviously can see it, they, oh, they totally agree with the presentations about the, the, the destruction of the palestinians and genocide, the policies and ethnic cleansing policy. but when it comes to regional war, i see their bit more bushes, then they are right, we voted additions. so we have to watch and see whether this balance of power is

changing. in order to fully answer your a right to an important question. promising you not a problem, i thank you a thank you very much and that's it for the show. and condolences from the whole team here, we're going underground to those bereaved by the ongoing violence here in the middle east. we'll be back in a brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch by a little less social media if it's not sensitive and your country, and had to a channel going on. the run tv on mobile dot com to watch new and old episodes of going underground seas after the israel continues to attack us with impunity. the civilian death told is staggering . incredibly, during all this carnage, washington. and this is really allied for telegraphing their vision for the palestinians after the war. of course it's for

the, the, there's no net up in the the is really on. so it's all gone. so as the all me and now it has the enclave been to have gaza cities. so completely surrounded guy. so he's been coming to get a job. and as it goes on board, sorry, 423, q 4 engine. everything. 073 general ratings of the alarm of the conference calls is texting on future generation. the size of