came a bad one like fellow congresswoman and i know moss who was kicked off the floor and a sized committee. uh yeah. this yeah. pro palestinian bias part. he meant she couldn't be an objective decision maker on like the 99 percent with pro is all by some of course, none of this the really should surprise us because off to roll the fish rocks from the head. the charges, you know, they said yesterday right now is not the time for a general ceasefire. those calling for an immediate cease fire, have an obligation to explain how to address the unacceptable result. it would likely bring about why, why i'm the spam polls for a ceasefire. at this stage, i do not believe that it is the correct position. now. pro palestine demonstrates, has that been called hate fuel mumps. in the u. k, the us state department has vetoed any use of the was the escalation ending the violence and bloodshed?

so every person who has fired and every person who has hunted is done so with the approval of the walls with tolerant capitals who preach to all the nations about human rights and freedom while criminalizing piece. by co. i'm next on all the international. don't carry out to hospitalized episode of the whistle blowers will be back with more news. the top of yeah, thanks for watching. of the many years ago when i was a brand new c, i a officer, the senior c. i a counter intelligence official warranty about the threats that the united states face from its for an adversaries. i was told that russia, china and north korea, cuba and iran met harm to us and that their intelligence services were constantly working against us. but it wasn't just those countries that the senior official mentioned. he added that one of the most dangerous countries in the world for americans, and especially for official americans with israel. if anything,

in the intervening years as far as israel goes, that's totally gotten worse. i'm john curiosity and welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 israel has one of the most advanced tech industries in the world. that's not a huge surprise. the country has long been a magnet for entrepreneurs. interested in tech development. is really companies frequently partner with international big tech. and these really government generously provide start up funding for new tech companies. more importantly though, much of the tech development that is real focus is on has multiple uses. it's used to provide blanket surveillance, coverage against palestinians. for example. it's used to infiltrate peace groups or anybody else that the extreme is right wing is really government seems to be a potential threat. it's used to spy on people all around the world,

including people active in the b s or boycott, divest and sanction movement. and it's sold to democracy's dictatorships and despots all around the world to do with what they will. in early september, i received a call from a former colleague of mine from the c i. a. he asked if i had an iphone, which i do any warn me that apple had recently determined that re, israel's notorious pegasus software could bring to apples security and that the company would soon send out a patch. i received that patch later in the day, but it confirmed to me with so many of us had already suspected these release can hack into the communications of literally anybody in the world. their technology is that good. that's all pretty frightening, isn't it? it's infuriating to but the truth is even worse is real use it's tech prominence to sell its occupation of palestine to the world and its dominance of the narrative to social media companies. it's not an accident that if you post

a pro palestinian comment or story on facebook or publisher pro palestinian tweet and algorithm will either keep people from seeing it. or perhaps we'll just delete it altogether. so we're going to talk about all this with a journalist who has covered this issue for years and who recently wrote a highly acclaimed book about it. anthony lowenstein, is the author of the book, the palestine laboratory. how is real exports, the technology of occupation around the world? anthony, welcome to the show, were so happy to have you. thanks so much for having me, john. anthony, i want to begin with something that you wrote about yourself in this book. you happen to be jewish, and like many of us who follow and have studied and lived in the middle east, you long supported a 2 state solution. you've reported on israel for nearly 25 years. and over the course of those 25 years after having lived in east jerusalem, you've changed your mind about some of these big issues. tell us about that. i grew

up in australia in melvin, in a liberal zine this time. and for those who don't know what that means, essentially israel was on the center of my life or the family's life, but i, my family will holocaust survivors. most of my family were killed in the holocaust in europe. and the 2nd the, what were the ones that got out escapes? where did i get a visa, really 1939 looks like before the wall began. so straight in canada, u. s. u k. and when i was growing up in the seventy's really use ro was saying as a safe haven, it was a place that god forbid something happens again to jews. we, i can go there. and for those who don't know as a g u, i can go to israel tomorrow. and if i can prove that my family is jewish, and my mother is jewish, i can be and he's really citizen, we can see mounts, cost, palestinians do not have that same rise. and that's the reason why i've never taken up these really citizenship off. and the fees, i believe, i guess, and he's rouse right to exist as a jewish state. i was pretty easy parents to be honest and i was growing up. tell us the names didn't really exist. i didn't mean to tell us names. i didn't speak to

palestinians, i constantly had demonized ation of palestinians by my family and the why the jewish community that was super coming back then it's still coming now though it is changing as i talk about in the book and elsewhere. and i think for years i saw a 2 state solution was the so called accepted view. that's what we should support that over time i was, i've been reporting there for about 20 years since about 2005 visiting there. every fee is reporting from israel, the west bank and gaza room between 201620. 20. i was living with my partner in east jerusalem as a j house. there was a journalist and i think of a time you start to realize 2 things. one, the 2 sites solution was always in mirage, but there was never really any intention on these rally side to equally divide the land a and b. but the idea of a 2 state solution and maintaining a jewish state is by definition discriminatory. what i mean by that is that, and i say this and various other places, including in the book my issue with the jewish states,

not because of the jewish parasite. my issue is a claim with a heating do majority state or christian majority stayed on muslim majority site. in fact, in the book i took a lot of that. what prime minister nobody is doing in india to transform that country. and so he can do fund of mental this nation, which is a deeply disturbing aspect. so, but a jewish stays, discriminates against non use. that is what he's rel does. so if you on view, if you treat it as a 2nd cost citizen, so familiar, one state solution is the most equitable, just outcome. what was it that made you interested in tech? did that happen after you arrived in israel? and more importantly, when and how did you become interested in this invasive kind of tech that's been coming out of israel for the past 20 years or so? look, i've been looking at these issues in a way for a while and not particularly displayed these relevant. obviously post 911 has been this explosion. mistakes in the us in the k, but also any, any as well. but of course, also from china and other countries, china as well. so it's not unique to the west of using modern technology to survey

old people to monitor them to track them. and israel is to come on the global leaders. and so when i was looking at this ease ago, particularly when i was living there, i became much more aware, some vehicles that were meant, the pegasus, which is the, in from the spyware that is riley company, made by and assorted group of you can put onto your phone once put onto your iphone or android, and you don't even know it's there and you can be surveilled and mtv quit us. it's used by dozens and dozens of countries, and the book talks quite a lot about that. the pegasus is literally the tip of the iceberg. and one of the things i look at in the book really is that so many of the tools and technologies that these roles been using. i tested 1st on palestinians in palestine. so tell us the names. since the guinea pigs, and one of the things that i say in the book is, and one level the us did this in the rock in afghanistan. i mean, i do this in vietnam as well that these areas become testing grounds for new weapons. i mean, the current war and ukraine that russia launched again to crime last year. you have

candles, radicals right now, in the old times num, financial times talking openly about how the us is testing weapons this, giving them so ukrainians or selling and so you craniums and the testing them and talking about high tech weaponry drawings, etc. so in one level, what is rouse doing is not the only nation that does it. the difference is that israel has a ready made occupied population on it's those that the always a half a century, the longest occupation in modern times, $56.00. he is now in counting and huge amounts of high tech within right in the modern age, spyware drawings, facial recognition, technology, biometric data. and these are used in the way initially to track and maintain the occupation to cape palestinians under control. and now what's happening to what's been going for decades, as i saw in the book, they started well before 911. and it's a mess of like celebrated since 911 is it is around really has become one of the

global leaders in not just high. it's a weapon rate, but in the industry it's now the times biggest. let's do you live in the world. can't compete with the us us remains number one must make you proud. they're about 40 percent of the world's weapons comes in the us nominations, so weapons as well. russia, france. so it's not just these route, but these are also tense because i still live in the world where he's real east number one, or 2 is spyware. so high tech surveillance and someone's find all the forms of communication. so i was fascinated by that, but particularly the genesis of that technology, which is coming from palestine on palestinians and how israel is there for marketing that as federal tested, they woods on palestinians to a global market. that's desperate for democracies and dictatorships. i find that over a 130 countries in the world, so the majority of nations on the planet had bought some of the phone with his riley, repressive technology. so it's pretty remarkable rankel and for a tiny nation in the middle east. i don't want to sound cynical or

a conspiratorial, but what's the purpose of these really tech industry, always national security? was it all ways to use against the palestinians and in what amount to is really intelligence operations? well, israel has always claim that what they doing is the national security of their protecting themselves against an enemy of the palestinians in palestine, all their neighbors who at times yes, of undeniably being aggressive against these route about i think that's it as a me. so what i mean by that is that pretty much, not from the 1st day, but from the fifty's. and he's where i was founded in 1948. so pretty much within a decade of israel's the, the latest supervision. well realized, i had to make friends down the one hand, a new nation that makes sense. you have to make friends, i understand that. but that was often made for stealing. and what's happening in the last decades particularly accelerated off to 1967 when he's real lucky part of

the westbank as a resource for them in the golan heights, is that they found that there was a very interested ready made market around the world. who would see pertain as i show extensively in the book for these kinds of federal tested weapons. so for example, in the us back, daddy was in latin in south america in the seventy's and eighty's. the history is relatively well 9 to an extent, a 100 years, columbia and others that were designated by us back more crimes, back to cost by local forces. what's the less 9? is it, israel was a key player in those was these roll off on was training those countries, so i'm giving them that we're funding them. and i show extensively in the book that in many of these countries, even in that time is that the us could not fund certain nations will cries because of some lucky and congress, even at those points. who was there is ro, israel came in and was happy to provide those weapons. so in that extent,

i think in all the israel, across in america are being closer is arouse existence. but that i think really deepened in the seventy's when somebody's israel became america's wing. man, i say very much in that sense and that hasn't really changed the spot, the rhetoric you now hear sometimes from by the end about how he's very concerned about. he's really settlements, america's posted towards these ro hasn't changed at all. and in fact, during the trump era, in some ways that was found more on his son and say that it's just as simple under trump at all. i think trump is a danger on many levels, but trump is on his trump said, i don't really care about the palestinians. i don't really care what they think, what they want wearing baby, these ro and full of presidents and the current president kind of give this idea that were even handed, not even handed you support. these are all just be honest about then trump accelerated. that's true. those trends already happening long before he came into office. so you're actually on national security is given as a reason to what he's around dallas. but in fact,

israel has used the occupation as an incredibly effective marketing tool, in some ways to get huge amounts of friends around the world, kind of transactional friendship by selling massive amounts of weaponry. anthony, please stay with us. we're going to take a short break and when we come back, we'll ask author anthony lowenstein about how is real uses. it's tech industry to spy on friends, enemies and everybody in between stages in. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the law, like, like i have asked him how to start and see all those in the region. the or non state actors by the operate within national about the normal range beyond national boundaries. so if you don't have a just harvest mission, one of the rates a stream, you know, and bring spain back to the base, love at the end,

or restore the king that they are not in any way interested or involved in that other part of the purpose. of course, unless you understand that you could easily fall into the trouble the american propaganda, the probably button has come us from us in the the welcome back to the list of lawyers and john to reaku. we're speaking with author anthony lowenstein,

about his outstanding new book, the palestine laboratory. how is real exports, the technology of occupation around the world? good to have you with us. and to me, thanks again for joining us. pleasure. let's get into some of the specifics that you discussed in this book. you open it with an absolutely awful story about a t land, jewish family by the name of silberman. i wasn't surprised by the tragedy behind the story, which i'll ask you to relate to our viewers in a moment. but i was very surprised to learn that israel was working with the military junta, led by general, a goose to pino shay. tell us about the silver man's what happened to them and about is really involvement in the g lane, coo and it's bloody aftermath. 50 years ago in 1973, there was a crew against the end day, the democratically elected later of july, and was backed by the us and other nations to support initiated, dictated for years now it's relatively now in the us role that love us documents.

we still don't know the actual great extent of us support for the co what's less, non, much less and i in fact is these riley support. now i didn't sign the book that israel was a key factor in either throwing a and a they want. but what is important to note that that would definitely a play in supporting the could they supported elements of peanut chaise raising. they sold weapons to, to lay of the, to the point. whereas i have in the book, the classified ca documents which show that at various points off to the could the biggest provider of ions to july was not america. it was a 0. it was these route for years. so that's part of the story. the story outside of a cabin, the book is really about a guy who lives in these right now. daniel silverman, whose father was killed by pina chaise, dogs essentially and his family was in sheila, his father was captured soon after the co in prison. and what they thought was

after a while released, but in the end was what was released but been killed by pernicious dogs. and to this day, daniel, who lives in israel now has no idea whose family has no idea with the bodies. they have no real record of anything, and this, this is the legacy in some ways of what happened in 1973. and the reason our accountants in the book taught from lovely just as history less than the course that's part of it, is linked to detail. he is and how those attempts to uncover what israel was doing . and she liked hearing that she is the us, as i said, role was clear. it was studies can't kissinger and others, but he's been trying for years, unsuccessfully, amada treaties, really supreme court to try to uncover what the hell is role was doing it. what were they doing? who would they supporting? what would they backing? who would they funding? who would they, how me? we know the general outlines and i haven't the book and degree of declassified documents the detail of that. but a lot of that we still don't know. and daniel,

and these are all with his friends and colleagues, have bayne stone, little time and time and time again. so that somebody was being pulled into that store. a lot of people have read the book. one of the things that really struck me was people telling me about that story, but many, many others. while the people just did not realize that profound extent of these riley complicity in some of the 20th and 21st century is nice the greatest abuses. it's much more 9 on the left with all parts on the right to i guess of american complicity in name and dictator. velaz. $5070.00 is it's 9. some of the details are still unclear to be show what solid less 9. this is, riley complicity. not going least, i won't go into all the details, but huge amounts of complicity on my list. some of the books i briefly, literally during the rwandan genocide, these are all was selling weapons to the real ones in raising in a more recent time. this got exposed a few weeks ago, they'll have some details about this in the book as well. me and my which the u. n

. found was committing genocide against its range muslim population off to the genocide after the could. in main matter fees, like israel was selling weapons to the, to latest off to the co and after the genesis. now, i'm not saying that the only nation the will to does that. the reason i put this sort of stuff in the book is so much of media framing is well rusher and trying to sell a whole format. so weapons to dictate ships around the world, which they do as to the americans of course. but the difference is when it's framed in the media rusher in china, also bad america, israel noble in good next. really? that's nonsense. the alms industry, by definition is ongoing in near russian and trying to sell a level for weapons around the world. no one's denying that i mean the evidence and that's i have a well me as does america, america does it on the 5 biggest scale. but what sort of less known is he's really um, stealing around the well the some of these awful dictated shapes and why they doing

it sometimes in partnership with us and sometimes not. and that's probably what the book tries to expose. we've read about myriad scandals internationally over the past year where pegasus software has been used to spy on politicians, on world leaders. and even on average citizens of pegasus scandal nearly brought down the greek government in just one example. what can you tell us about pegasus surveillance software? who uses it and why it is become so prevalent? and i note that in the book you say that israel has always made sales to despotic regimes. like burma so hard, those indonesia and apartheid era. south africa are countries like that still in business with israel. yes. the short answer is yes. across the parts of africa is now over, it is now a democratic regime. and so that's a good whether it's designed for me still a pod so that they can now make it possible i would suggest against as blank population look not much has changed. what has changed?

i think he's a bit of great a public scrutiny. and the reason i talk about pegasus is probably the sale of a lot of people reading the book. who may have heard of pegasus got a bit of pressing the last fees around the world and what's less understood a valid this is what i want to say. it's often framed to is this rogue is riley company selling awful technology to re james? good and bad, raging cycled, good and bad. the market that democratic and despotic and fidelity. see the underwear this can be put onto your fine without you knowing there's no way you would know it's on there unless he gets forensically checked. so essentially it's a silent weapon, which is put onto your iphone or android. everything on your assign can be viewed or accessed your camera, your microphone, your photos, your e mails, information about your loved ones, old girlfriend, boyfriend work like whatever it may be. and one of the things i challenge in the book is sorry much, so the media coverage in the last few years is focused on pegasus. and that's an

important subject and get me talking about the chapter in the book about a but what's missing about so not to this coverage is the inside group, which is a company behind it is not some road company. it's an i'm of the states. it's an i'm of these rarely governments, so it's what i mean by that is yes, it's a private company for sure. it's got a board and it has makes profits. this like lockheed martin and reyes on day. but to me, this is very similar, located mountains, a private company. yes. but lockheed martin is used by the us isn't of the state. it's been use like that for decades like re a phone has been as well. they use as an um to certain foreign policy agendas of the us and ministration might have. it's exactly the same as well. so what i show in the book is remarkable story in the last 10 years when it's in yahoo, the seemingly never ending is riley prime minister. and the most ad, these riley intelligence go around the well to regimes they wanted refrain. i'm talking about india rolanda, you a and they hold pegasus out as

a diplomatic harris essentially saying, you want to be friends with us. we want to be friends with you. we will sell you. it is amazingly powerful spyware. we don't want to assume any questions about where it's going. he using it again. so maybe selling it to you a you're pretty sure it's going to go against incidence. so active as human rights workers. i mean we're 10 is relatives. we would like, for example, you divide a certain way and the un, this is how it works. so what i've shown in the book, it's in yahoo or the last set of visits, say hungry india, rolanda you a and within 6 or 12 months, peg associates in use against critics in those countries. now, you could argue that's not a 100 percent evidence, but this is how it works. is how it works. it is reli selling this equipment as a depo medic, carriage to say we will help you refresh your on paper fee. but if you befriend us in that kind of transactional way and pegasus really, john is the tip of the iceberg. i signed the book loved the media attention is

going on pegasus. which in fact the companies that happy about because they're doing exactly the same thing. like so much less tension and one of the real things is following on this point is the real disturbing aspects of this industry is actually unregulated. there is no regulation around the supply or industry in the last fi, some view as months. so hang on a 2nd, didn't president biden sanction these companies? in fact, you did. yes. and the last fee is by them comes into office, the sanctions and it's over now the face of what do you think? one that seems great. america is working out to human rights really and what you, what he's not regularly said, is it this to me is nothing about sanctioning human rights abuses about america. and i took her by this lot in the book. america is annoyed that as well as taking their business, they're angry about the fact that american spyware companies are being superseded by as riley spyware companies. some of the us is trying to do by sanction is riley

wants, is to give a leg up to the american ones. at the moment. israel is probably number one or 2 in the global spyware industry. america is not. and is united, you on america does not like nothing. number was not a big fan of the number one, even in the study weapons. so i say by then sanctioning of these riley spyware companies, as a way to try to assist american spyware companies, to can, to the rise of the ease, riley, spyware, firms. and so far, it's not working particularly well. to be honest, you make a. ringback declarative statement in the book that i couldn't agree with more, you say that literally everything changed for these really tech and military industry on september, 11th, 2001. the change may have begun with the 1991 gulf war. can you tell us what you meant by that statement, and can you quantify for us what those changes have been? you know, on the day after 911 netanyahu who was not prime minister,

then was interviewed on american survey. and i have is quite in the book, a lot of sense, like the american tv ag house guys. what are your thoughts a so i think is great. so i'm, and i'm paraphrasing it says it's like right for res route and the host which was like, so when he told me that screaming quite serious row. now, when he explained, i mean not particularly well, but what he meant was the well to finally understand what he's rails been dealing with for decades. this was the narrative, is ro. so the narrative guys has been fighting a war on terror for decades of gains also muslim terrorist. so the argument goes and now america will understand then you're going to join us as, as ease row. to fight that similar war. i mentioned yahoo was ross. he was absolutely correct on that, that i talked about this low in the book that signed much of the actions and rhetoric of the us post 911 was copied from these riley playbook that wasn't exactly the same. but it was very similar like use route to effect a decent living on effect in the eighty's and ninety's. i lived on 9th,

92 and it's sort of loading the book about how israel use certain language and behavior collateral damage. this is the word that was thought to be used by these riley's long before the americans started using it extensively. and to me, thank you so much for joining us. i learned a lot. thank you so much for having me, john. it's been great and thank you to our viewers for taking the time to watch the great american patriot and founding father thomas paine said the government, even in its best state, is a necessary evil in its worst states. it's an intolerable one. what does the person to do when the government takes the side of the vault? we don't really have the answer to that question, but it's certainly something to ponder. thanks for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. i'm john curiosity. we will see you next time. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the,

the high acceptance and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do, you do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. whitelisted opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to planes or do they have the state department c i a weapons, bankers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't myself stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, it's not,

we don't want to watch it because it might just change the way the civilian sheltering in hospitals in northern gone to recruit some across spot. i'm it the way to get a sense if with hundreds of for, is that gold patients facing death with towel cuts have to be in even if we have to provide treatment for them by candlelight. the fuel is supposed to run out within hours will remain here and we will not reach this place no matter if the call tens of thousands of civilians fee to $7.00 gone through a method came on a terry and crisis following day. as well as from bossman to all the in today's know we have from a local journalist who's a month with the state of the basic suffering here in the us to find the findings.