and it can have a stabilizing effect across europe, thinks of west germany's accession to nato. in 1955, it was washington's view of the current status of ukraine's counter offensive in the future. if you will start looking what we see directly though, we have just heard that washington is having to, rick feed the last to bits 1000000000 in funds in terms of military assistance to quite. and that's because there's a deadlock in congress to fight a proving new money for the conflict. that's again, biggest question. so it'd be enough tens of billions of us dollars have been spent on this war. and ukraine. what has ukraine go to show? and the reality is very, very little in as a result of that, they're all concerns. and that's why there is this deadlock over the funding. there's also these reports coming out of the last few days, the us officials and even visuals of actually been speaking to keep saying, look, the time now is to look at negotiating. what are you willing to accept? that is something that so lensky has absolutely no idea that this happened. but

we've also heard from one top military official in the us that essentially it's of the war in ukraine is effectively over. everyone's focusing on these rail and mass, and they're seeing things they don't like. the region is coalescing into in the lines that otherwise would have never occurred. there was a readiness to take action against these. riley's, this cannot be ignored. the reality now is that the focus is else why ukraine hasn't been able to show any meaningful gains knowing what 20 minutes with all of that money. the funding, the ministry, support a tactical support. and we're about to enter the winter, which is a really difficult parents. the reality is things are not looking good and it seems as if weston officials finally it's missing that chart. dimansky, thanks to come in the details. thank you for more on any of those stories you've just seen, the checkouts of telecom channel monies be discards on the back with all the laces . and just on to that evening is the time. thanks for watching

the, the hardest buddy i'm or 2 inches. i've been doing news for 30 years now. 2 languages all over the world. here in the us, interviewed for us. presidents worked for us, major television networks. i don't like what they do by the way. so yeah, i think news should be honest and direct and impactful. this is direct impact. the i want to start with this. the look at that, you see that those are the voices,

the voices of thousands of young people inside the united states, protesting a grand central station in new york city. most of them are jewish by the way, and they're calling for a cease fire in the middle east. the group voices for peace has been staging many protests against israel's treatment of palestinians in the past. and now what, why is this video so important? why do i think this video is some part? well, i'm gonna come back to that as we move on to the show. but i want to start with this. last week. i tried to break down for you the genesis of these really conflict with palestinians. i showed you how it all standards from the balfour record, which is how the british one day decided that the people who lived in palestine had to leave to make room for european jews. and that is when it all actually began right. of course, we also know when we pointed out how since then there had been all types of battles

and brew haws, many of which have allowed both sides to point fingers at the other and say, it's you, this is your fault. only the here. no, it's yours, your fault. and now we come to this. now it comes with a situation we're seeing now what we, what we seem to be on, on the brink of something that could get really nasty, really quick. and i'm not talking about another so called middle east conflict between israel and the palestinians as we've often covered up and call them. no, no. what we're talking about now is a potential theater of war that couldn't. busy with the military might have many, many powerful countries, like the united states, the u. k. and canada. on one side, iran, turkey, saudi arabia, pakistan, and practically every single era country on the other. as to what countries like china, india and russia are going to do it. and if there's a total escalation,

my god, we can only guess. now, last week we had a couple of guests on here to talk about the history of this conflict on the debate . and sued right away, right? you probably watched it. it was to say the least if you haven't seen it, you will discover, are extremely passionate. as putting a model. what that showed us is just how difficult it is to have an objective, unemotional conversation. just just to have a conversation regarding this issue, even when we're talking about history, which you would think most people could generally agree on write something happened on such and such a date. so now what, what we're going to do is we're going to bring back those guess conservative radio host, steve malls berg, who is a firm defender of israel, dr. norman finkelstein, who was an equally firm and in his defense of the palestinians. but before we do

that, i'd like to catch you up on the news. israel in the government of bb, let them yahoo appear ready to use this. a force of biblical proportion. i don't use that word by coincidence, by the way. that is how nathan yahoo is framing it, and his war cabinet, they're describing their actions in that way, which is only adding by the way, gasoline to this fire, because now you have both sides saying that somehow god is only on their side, which means they're killing in god's name, that's not good. that's not good. to be clear, there is general agreement that because of what, how much did there needed to be some kind of retribution? maybe their group needed to be eradicated, come us, even arab leaders that agreed with that notion. the problem is the campaign to eradicate him off is now apparently turned into what appears to be a campaign to eradicate the entire 1000 population by sending troops in the

northern guys while effectively impacting a bombing campaign that has already killed more than 3 times the number of people that were killed by how much summer saying 3000 children have been killed in guys already. 3000 children. most of these people are civilians including women and the elderly. i think this, this heavy handed strategy is making even those who feel bad for israel now see them as offenders, because the notion of collective punishment, collective punishment. it just doesn't cut it in that region of the world. why? why? because for too long. nothing in this conflict has ever happened in a vacuum. meanwhile, our country's government appears to be giving israel a blank check to do as they please with the palestinians. and that's unconditional

us. support is not going over well, not at all in their work. this is what we used to do in these conflicts back in the 19 ninety's when washington had technological, military and geo political super your superior already in the region. but here's the problem. that is not the case today, not really yet the bottom administration. you know, a guy who's what, from the 19 forties and fifties in his thinking, the buying the administration is implementing the same cold war initiatives that are likely to create a more dangerous conflict. in fact, the american forces, in places like syria and iraq, are continuing to be attacked and us military has even shut down a turkish drone. that's an ominous undertaking. considering turkey is a nato country with an impressive if not ferocious military, which is now clearly on the side of the palestinians. so our government continues

to tell israel, do whatever you need to do. we got your back, quote, we got your back. now what that really has come to maine is we will keep writing you huge checks, right? the problem is there isn't enough money to go around these days, certainly not the fund, israel's military, in an escalating war while also funding taiwan while also fighting funding ukraine . economists and point to the us debt problem say that's impossible. yet here we are on the verge of engaging in what is almost sure to become a devastating regional conflict that could lead to i'm just going to say it. world war 3 most in washington are barely even considering that potential outcome. why? oh, and marginalized in mart, in large measure, it's because our media has become a cheerleading team. they don't have questions. they're supposed to be asking. now

when it comes to the coverage of the palestinians point of view it's non existent, the so let's go back down. remember this image i showed you at the top of the shoe. busy were thousands, were seen protesting for peace, most of them jewish americans, by the way, i checked. and it appears that cnn didn't even cover it, because it doesn't fit their pro war narrative the. that is why we're about to show you something. i'm confident you won't see on any other news network, but we're about to do here is an actual debate with both sides of this minis. conflict represented as opposed to just the point of view of israel. steam walls berg is a popular radio talk show host, who i've known for years. doctor norman finkelstein is an active as an officer whose books include gaza, an inquest into martyrdom. to save you are

being perceived as someone who is not concerned. and this should be obviously a very important concern for all of us as americans, that we could be on the brink of all out war with iran, at least if we hear the rhetoric both from washington and from tehran, not to mention the shooting, going back and forth he says, dr finkelstein, that is the israeli is go in full force with troops into the palestinian areas. there is no question that not just iran, but other arab countries will be involved and that will conflict great. this more. how concerned are you about that? of course it's, it's very concerning, but you know, i take pride when a nazi supporter calls me names. i love it, i wear it as a badge of honor and thank you. keep doing it, sir. luck. of course i, as i'm tom, what do you think anybody wants more? anybody wants the us to get involved?

anybody wants world war 3. but the bottom line here is, is that israel cannot allow more butchering, not see. what's your in unprecedented since world war 2, the butchering of their citizens. you know, they're how mazda is holding 9 month old babies and 90 year old women right now, in tunnels somewhere. israel cannot allow this to happen again, and by the way, the world can't allow it to happen because of we now start saying, well, if you have human shields, right, god forbid someone comes into your home, okay. and they're good and they got guns. would you happen to have people in your home with guns ok and these people say ok to kill your children, but they have babies or, or women in front of them with the people protecting your home and your home. not

protect, not fire at the people came into your home because they might kill a civilian who's in front of them. you can also raise like no, an inch like that. just print black. so part dr. finkelstein, what do you sorry my, what, what do you the me ask you the question, let me ask you a question and i'll try and phrase it as fairly as i can. what do you say to steve and others who say we have a right to defend ourselves because of the atrocity uh that was done to our civilians, our citizens, by how mos. what do you say to that? as i say, the israel has the right to the cell, so asper, it opens up the gates of going, so concentration can but so long as those gates are shopped into point, as they have been since 2006 are, do not believe guards,

how the rate of self service in the face of a concentration can, i don't think the dog sees has the right of self defense. if there were an insurrection in our insurance or any of the other concentration camps. rick, at the shop, really rip that you're putting up with all the concentration now wrap. not only do you know, rick, the ring longer. each of the close by 2 under these guys are close. yeah. do you believe that you believe gaza is a constant traction tab of the day, the over at over and over? so if you don't get it, the doctor got finish up the side of metal. i'm going to give you a chance to respond to another state but know i'm a to, i'm a lot more happy. ringback on october 7th, but you know, like,

you know, other people, how much do they do? what is real, periodically does incarcerated very abroad, the more you hear, the more way now you might expire at the start, the expression i'm doing. oh, i don't find any disgusting. the, the same expression is used by the is really permanent. yeah. okay. i use the disk on your gentleman word to try what, what, what, what are the top dr. bottom started, a lot of the more, let's do now let's, let's do this. we may have a different grade, the gentleman i should come to really when periodically they go. when i

say we're only waiting, no, it's uh, it's okay. so let's have, let's, let's do this, dr. for 1000000. sure. 100 and your and your new point says you're 1000000. sure. and your point is that fair want to add an accurate on. there are a 1000000 children in that area. the question is, and this is what i want to talk about when we come back from the break. and steve, i want you to start us off here. you heard discharge many times. the treatment that is riley's due to palestinians living in these areas like the gaza, is oppressive, is wrong. this is not a charge that i'm making. it's been made by human rights groups. it's been made by palestinians. it's been made by many. what do you believe is the way for the treatment of those people by israel?

i think that's a fair question. that's what i want. it will take on. when we come back, i'm talking to steve mazda parts and dr. norman finkelstein and we're going to be right back by the way, we'll continue this conversation with you as well. go to twitter and you'll find me there. and rick sanchez, tv or x or whatever they call it these days. i'm looking forward to having that conversation with you and when we come back, of course, the very latest on the us military's engagement in this complex and what it means for the future of the regions stay right there will be right back with my 2 very passionate guests the the, the law like like how about us and how to start and feel all those in the region. the or non state actors by the operate with his national have down the don't to break

beyond national golf. so if you don't have it, you have is mission to the race, spain you know, and bring spain back to the peace love at the end, or restore the king that they are not in any way interested or even both of them. that's another part of this course, unless you understand that you could easily fall into the trouble. the american propaganda, the probably button is come out of the right welcome back. we are joined by our expert panel once again dr. norman finkelstein and steve malls per gentleman walk, and dr. finkelstein has used the words repeatedly, concentration camp when referring to the treatment of palestinians. um,

it's obviously heated language, but he's not the only one who's used it. i should be fair and mentioned that steve . uh, you take umbrage at that terminology. it's not just your words, but your reaction is i'm watching your exit because rick, because rick it's, it's not only disrespectful, insensitive, and it's insane. okay, a o. c, a congresswoman here in new york from the, in the, in the united states said that our border, we were keeping our, the, the illegal immigrants to come into the country in concentration camps. the left likes to throw it around. now when you, you show me the gas chambers and the ovens and the skeletons and the star ration and the forced labor. and the lamp shades made from the skin. of those people that were in the real concentration cast run by the nazis. then we could

talk, but to throw that around casually because you hate jews and you hate is real. if i try to ignore them so. so how would you tell me so then how is your problem? so let me ask you, i think this is something our viewers are going to want to hear from you. how would you then characterize the way that palestinians are forced to live by a country they say is occupying them? there again does. how would you categorize it? is that occupying them and guys, big is real left. garza is real. dave garza to the palestinians, is real when they left on the way out left greenhouses. infrastructure, all kinds of things to give the palestinians a head start. what's the 1st thing? literally they did tort. everything is real left down and celebrated over as they tore it all down, left themselves with nothing and then elected

a terrorist group to represent them and run the territory. the terrorist group then did terrorists like things and always has, why do you think egypt has their border with gaza close? so would you say we thought we'd just start out here? so what do you say? talk about israel and i know we're talking about israel right now. well, obviously be the 2 integrity. so would you say, would you say give me a word? give me a description. the treatment of israel toward palestinians and gaza is what to describe is justified for self defense. ok, just a moment. let me tell you what that is real today. reveal the evidence that how mazda is main headquarters in gaza is located under the sheep up hospital. that's for the animals of hamas. are they use their people as human shields? they want them dead, so they could score public relations points,

but that's the kind of animals we're dealing with. ok, dr. finkelstein your response. ok. the historical question, and then there's this actual question of today. historical question is in 2006 that these were almost draw some guys. in fact, israel re deployed its troops on the calendar. there are guys of israel control. the air space is around control. the water is really controlled. every thing that went into guys, every thing that was all the guys to know to get to the current situation, i was referred to the animals. how exactly are we referring to? we know for sure. do you go israel's president,

mr. herd side said on the 2nd day on october a, he said we do not make a distinction between hallmark and the civilian population. there are no just saying he was right in on the point. there is nobody and nobody in the official position of the b 5 year old in dogs, so i'll have mosse never to, according to body. really bad. they pulled a crack. don't do all of crap. the finishes point and then i'll let, i'll give you time to start. wow. that since you're not admitting any water, any, any electricity and any food that was starting to target the terms minutes,

the long on the 2nd day. it's the optics stuff. nation not get it so you know i've, it's done and very, she's against the people of gossip. i would like any other taste there. i am aware of that was how literally our nouns, every senior is really often show. we're not distinguish between all good ad. he's what are your letters large? so let me ask you it so so, so, so, so you know, better than that? well, what i know is that when i have to guess, i should give them both their piece and you have an opportunity now to essentially counter what he just said. there has been a lot of heated rhetoric though, from both sides, including from his relatives who i've said some pretty awful things about palestinians in general. do you cop to that? and if not steve to teach us what the power is, what i'm sorry, the teacher you need to be. he said,

every government official said there's no difference. that is the complete antithesis is sitting there and lying. yeah, no, no. is it? i don't know, is it that part, but the defense official did say some pretty blasphemous things about the problem with imagine after they speak and separate the heads of babies, he said some pretty tough things. okay. i'm ok. wow. the emotions got caught up with them. but look at what they're doing, they still haven't gone in on the ground this lie or says there's been no full board or fuel by blocks. they're a big trucks coming in. now the reason is real doesn't allow all the fuel is because her mice will take the fuel. they run the government, they run garza and they'll steal the fuel and they'll use it for all kinds of weapons purposes. their animals do their animals, they don't care about the civilians, the land, right. even though the trucks have been coming in, which is

a life of answers the line to what this guy just said that none have they have are . these are hard to be very careful about what they allow you to know as the if you want to clarify something, dr. finkelstein go ahead. a kerry, sorry, not to the persons that were exhibited on israel. i was referring to the statements that were made the day after october 7th is you, i guess your ask for reading is really talking points. is he going to 9? the defense minister said there will be no food, no more, no few or no lectures. and they allow them to gossip is important. i have no idea what the median, after all, i have noticed the us the question dr. song,

person heard side said the 2nd day, we will not distinguish between mas okay, i've heard that already want me to answer. i know i went back assuming question, it's a simple question, go ahead and try who are what? sure. so they are full, as you know, towards the population for us to stay calm because you all went down to the 2nd day. it was going to be the longest more. the last year was in 2014, 31 days and your questionnaire was mine. this is for the last 31 days. you divide the version full electricity bill for the one passes. that's a question. that's if the doctor finkelstein genocide to you, steve,

you have to answer that charge. you're down, we're down to a minute, my friend. well, 1st of all, that, that is not happen because they are, there are trucks coming in. that's number one. number 2. uh, that's come off when how much gets that about? how much lets people leave the people could wave israel, says egypt cut off the border and pick them my boss won't wait. a mosque won't allow it. so screw me up and it's their problem. and therefore, and with that we have to end the discussion. it's a passion and want that. and obviously some very important points in some heated words have been used in this discussion. but that's the state of things as they are . i want to thank you, dr. norman finkelstein, as well as the steve malls berg for sharing this combat of passionate but the important debate that we were able to bring you. my thanks to you both before

we go, i want to remind you of our mission here. what we try and do with this show is simply to de silo the world. we all tend to think that we only live in one little box and we only get information about our particular point of view. we think it's important that there should be more than one point of view. truth doesn't live in boxes. truth is everywhere. comic sanchez, i'll be looking for it. and i'll be looking for you again right here, where i hope to provide a director of the the

the civilians sheltering and hospital in northern got a cold in the cross fly between the idea and from the generates a fuel about someone else, the lives of hundreds of patients service tens of thousands of civilians to play, to southern gaza amid a humanitarian crisis. as pulling itself from bob instead of the north of the enclave. you hear from a local journalist who's on the display of the precinct suffering here in the doors and go the search, find the reward or find a cliff just at the fighting. and hopefully because retail 5, a safe place over there in the south.