the hello and welcome to world the parts and all of the hammock religions deport personality of pilots isn't major tenant engineers is no exception. in fact, according to the total dick interpretation, the 2nd temple was destroyed exactly as a punishment for gratuitous hatred, which once again, just to be driving a bounce in the middle east coast. religious or perhaps political ideas, offered any response from the blood ship and retaliation, engulfing big holy land. we'll discuss it. i'm now joined by rumsey, the room with a non resident senior research. follow the center for as long and global affairs at east timble design university. dr. barton with it's great to talk to thank you very much for being available. essentially for having that looked improved. i just use this term, the holy lands, which many people today associated with the state of israel. but historically, as i'm sure, you know, if they're refers to the entire area between the the terrain and see the eastern

bank of the jordan river, which includes the palestine. this is where i want to start. what is palestine to you at this point because it's not the state, and yet it's not fully devoid all state structures or a phantom of a state. so what is it? so of course that has to be is how this time was on its way to becoming a nation state in the modern sense. but there was a destruction that has happened, particularly when britain in 1917. also the so called both for declaration on the boss for promise has granted a israel to design is movement. and in doing so, creating this destruction in the historical cycle. palestine was becoming a state like all other states in the region, but that date and the events that relate to the equation is well between 19171948. seems to this day not mixed entirely. so they moved in by the city and

state, and the mother of danielle struggle is really essentially a political struggle. nothing really just struggled with ease of correcting the course of history, the baby to because of the british colonial has a empower response and it's inception. and the grand thing of his funds to design this moment in the 3 years. and it was there is this expression hope dies last and it's usually interpreted as something very aspirational. and the other thing it also reflects very dark connection between whole and death. because a promise was realization is denied continuously is bound to leave to the very opposite of hope, which is range, malice, despair, revenge. how much do you think this suspended scope have to do with what's happening in, in gaza today?

right, so there has really been periods of our just to even watch icons. you know, there are indeed there was this kind of collective sense of despair. and this collective sense of despair follow political promises. the foothill, for example, after the madrid negotiations in 1991 after the also a quote in 1993. this problem is that everything is going to be ok. our people are going to be ok, is we always start building supplements and there would be a palestinian state and to even make it more difficult. so that's good. yes. this palestinian hope is that they gave us enough symbols slab and actually some membership as various international distribution. so we're national team became an actual football team that is competing in the big so, so for the so on. and that kind of body with that sense of hope is indeed something real tangible is happening. what's called political point of view. the exact

opposite has happened, the number of joys, 2nd mess. tribble, the number appears to be a skilled, triple the number of books. oh, the joys federalist. move to. the westbank, contrary to international law, has increased initially so that you will have this kind of all power. all we gotta use, where we are feeding on hope. nothing is really happening on the ground. and that the sense of despair that we have seen you are the 2nd intifada and the suicide bombing put them in and i don't have that number. do you think that was a conscious strategy or do you think that was, you know, something you know, the hardest reality that not facilitating the finding of, of a compromise because americans like to say that, you know, perception is reality inducing. there wasn't a conscious attempt to create that perception while denying, realize it reality or do you think that just the way history develop is a sort of a former, not the last or, and we know that because for, for rational reasons,

i mean, you can't find settlements and legal stuff, and that's your current funds because what you need me to tell you was $3800000000.00 a year. and at the same time as the most by the study of rights in the areas that are being appropriated by the settings of industry. and people's rights to exist while you are funding the very minute. sorry. that's just dividing them that that's right. interest. so there was obviously something political and it wasn't perception that the americans were trying to market the americans. i'm very good with brandy. so if you really created this brand as the sword thus brand, and they decided that you agree with this product, you are a radical, your a terrorist, some besides or your and the american. and you're the only one piece. but also there are actual statements made by the lives of uh uh, what is the law school example who was uh, the, uh, uh, an adviser, adviser diploma. is what department are ill? sure. who, who made it very clear in 2005 that we are studying palestinians,

the idea that there would be a state and there would be no, there would be no stay. there will be a peace process. but to the contrary, what we are trying to say, and this is what you mean, the apologies necessary, not only interpretation, we want to put by the studios on a die if you said, but we don't want to kill them. i think for anyone who has even the most basic understanding of collective psychology, it's pretty obvious that guys, it has become a very dangerous human experiment because it is bound to produce a radicalism and resistance. and do i think human terrorism as a, as a natural way of opposing a person who cannot deny dignity to you know, it's a successive generations of people for way too long. i mean, then i wonder what do you think these railey and perhaps the west and leadership counted on? do they truly believe in your view that they can sort of seal these problem off in

their, her medic, fashion 2 things. number one, that is what you guys are living in the cities, the media that you have on media as well in the media, is how the different to the are aware like for example, the home to the term. that's what happened on october 7 was on approval. the actually have internalized as we believed it made on the spring. that's hope you're patient. part time sieges mass because coming was violence. the united nation instead this 2020 to was the most by that if you're the west texas to, to 2004 and then they give back again, it is a 2023 by june. it was the most violent view of the westgate since $2005.00 is on the different story. because it has already been declared and habitable by the united nations is them years ago. but in the minds of the is what it is because of the propaganda, the husband is really need it. it's completely unprovoked. we have no idea why these people hate us so much. that's the problem in the american media is

a different story. in the american media, they have established this connection that watches what else is doing as well as the read democracy, the only democracy in the middle east. and that is, will present the hopes and dreams of the great western civilization. and there are fighting a war against islam a 3rd and there's little difference between isis of how much time so organ, so on. so the americans have a different video of indoctrination that makes them blind at least mainstream media and bell harmon, concrete, the blind that applies to the city as over the course of 75 years. now this 75 here is living under conditions. most of us would recognize as highly dramatic. i think there is no dispute about it. it's a, it's bound to produce collective trauma. so let me ask you a hypothetical question here because it's easy to blame you through the americans in the west. but do you think the so called the allies or supporters of the policy and people would actually in practicality, welcome

a workable solution because when you deal with so many people who have been troubled psychologically economically logistically in all the possible ways, do you think the neighbors of palestine would actually one to see free and existing as a, as a state. right? so there are 2 different types of neighbors, all kind of studies, most very good neighbors. i don't want to go into specifics to and you know, to distract from the conversation. but these are the american olives and the work to the engines up to accommodate 2 elements. number one, the don't want too much trouble amongst their own people. the holes, maybe even minutes a cause and there's some serious gears. i think couple of these are confused. there is some way that there can be a mandatory quote in palestinians are continued to be slow, so that the site, but they will also wanting to accommodate the american big tasks and they want to stay on the what side of washington. the is their own risk come in like in

practical terms that will also understandable. this is a valid political motivation. that's why i'm asking the same question. do you think they actually won the resolution of the palestinian nature? because as in humane, as it seems right now, it seems to be keeping believe in place and making sure that the region is not troubled anymore. then i think it's kind of depends what's kinda on the kind of solution we're talking about. if the students are in indeed rented a minimum of the finish of, of justice as you know, kind of city of state that may be a step towards a future or above. so the ration or, or one state where people can follow, come and go have freedom, have political rights can vote. i don't see why this would be a problem for jordan or egypt, or anyone to the contrary is going to open up the space for not just for socio economic equality and the region. what's for economic prosperity as well. the americans have refused to all of this. the americans don't want to do it,

even though it actually by not doing it in this device. the region of the americans want stable because they are not doing it because there's a far wide government and as well. and that is what you just don't want any cause or visit lucian. that seems contrary to whatever ultimate goal they haven't thought of, but now you have reason. recently, the one take away from this crisis is the guy that has ended the secretary and the war in the, in the middle is that, you know, regardless of whether people are sunni, identify them. so the sunni or she or they tend to support the well, the policy and cost if they tend to resent what is being uh, so what the guys that people are being subjected to do, you're seeing that kind of a fact would be lasting and perhaps even game changing because i mean, and policies very natural at this point of time, but is it enough to move the situation from where it has been for many,

many decades assigned to the american program in the middle east is situated with them. division, divide and conquer is that simple, this stuff. i remember with the americans and visit the rock in 2003, and they, they, in pennsylvania and divide it logged into. she has on sundays, almost everybody knows that even though i visited your lot prior to that, and i didn't really see misconduct, step tell your cost it so ugly. it happening on a daily basis for the 1st time says the american invasion of your walk back then until today. i have not seen, for example, in egypt soon, the protesters chatting the names of housing as well as she either he been as protesters, she approved the stores sending the names of some of the leaders. we're having a business, complete the temper with ease it enough to console and then dot into something tangible into tangible, political solutions that will change that destiny on the policy and people rather

than simply being used for political purposes in those in those countries invest the struggle and that's the struggle, and that's what we're going to start seeing manifest in the coming era, the americans. and this is what you use and the allies want the region to be pro. is that exactly where it is? because it's of the interest. there is another town hall as well. uh, yeah. man, uh, palestine specific sections. okay. this thing has decided the elsewhere that is trying to create a new political paradigm. and i think the outcome of this part of the is going to change that. you can ethics of the music use itself, but also that music is visa, the new old political actors, whether be a restaurant site, that's all you know. look what we're looking for. let me stop here right here. we will talk about how exactly that could manifest in a couple of minutes, but for now, stay tuned. the,

there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the, or excuse the case for the med, most of the people. i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also of soon. this is the 3rd world lunacy re washing press for so the funder line likes to say we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deals to living on mac. we have very close propaganda. you know, a price here in new york. i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. some more questions ask a better. the answer is, will be, the russian states never is as tight as i'm assuming. the most sense community, most all sense enough in the system must be the one else holes. question about this,

even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on the russians per day and split the ortiz food next. even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services, what question did you say a request for? check the, the, the welcome back towards the portsmouth rumsey, by route and residence senior research follow as a center for as long and global affairs as symbols. i'm university dr. brewer and

before the break we started talking about the american role in this whole conflict . and you wrote recently that the guys that issue has become quite a liability for the bite and administration. and the democratic party more broadly that this re, tory police, a create bond between israel and the united states is becoming more of a jewel political bondage for the americans. do you seeing that this is their pressure or they just come for the bond and administration a feeling? the issue may lead to some converse pressure on the not gonna be a whole government because let's face it, the americans can be pretty, a ruthless, even when that own allies, one, their own american interests are affected on our so many moving pieces here as well is now going back to the status of the client's reaching, which is really interesting. this is a conversation we've had regarding the music is for many years is, is with all the clients we dream or is the, as they say that team is lacking,

is wagging the dog. and i think there's a struggle now we're some in israel, it's so are a free them, they have been saying this out loud, including a come are be viewing others within the rights we or far right government that we are going back to that kind of stuff. is where the america's telling us was due to the are those who are still insisting that isabel has not lost it's political power influence and credibility and we make our own decisions. so i think one of the moving pieces is that, well, that is what you just find himself going back to the 19 eighties and even earlier where the americans dictate is what you did, policies in the middle east, or when they continue. this new empowered up towards where they are to decide there's part of the words of george w bush back in today. so that's one of the pieces. the other one is how will this more affect the relationships between the democratic party, especially the rank and file, with the idiots who are still very kind of die hard supporters of kind of the we

are going to see this thing coming elections. and we are beginning to see changes happening in terms of numbers, especially with younger democratic voters who are making goals and palestine and showing their perception of bite. and now, uh, i'm joining you from most crime here in russia. we have this glee shade, the americans are always trying to impose their solutions on to everybody else. but in order to impose solutions, you have to have them a full stop. do you think the american, the current american administration even has an idea of how they can try to approach this very combustible issue? because if they only want to use it for political purposes, for appearances, you still need to offer something on the tricia seems to be so dire that it's very hard to understand where even to start the what to exploit. and, and this is one of the unprecedented outcomes of what's happening right now,

regardless of how we feel that that's what took place on october 7th and, and, and, and the legitimacy or lack the so the 1st time in many years. and what's the americans are not the ones who have taken the initiative. we all know now you want mcclin's famous book, the font doctrine. and the idea that you just go and you just take advantage of the existing disaster or you impose when i'm it finally organize the pieces to fit your foreign policy. i tried the best find, the americans were taken by surprise as much as they you just want taken by surprise. but what else did it blinking on the other american fish on j solid. but all the rest are trying to do here. they are pretending that nothing has changed, but they are in fact the ones that as far as the g. 7 is holding me things to talk about the future of garza without time as, as if this has been the ones who created this whole scenario and are the only ones who are capable of influencing the outcome of this scenario. and this is the

biggest political crisis, i think for the americans in a long time in the middle east is a, there's a new reality that's imposed on them. or again, they are still trying to kind of show results and the are in charge. but the actual entity, we are no longer the ones in the leadership position and they don't know what the outcome is going to want to ask you uh, one uh, religious or political question here because uh they have been some recent studies that i read recently. that israel and prominent jewish businessman through all the 20th century house, sought to essentially intertwine religious and political discourse, particularly restoring the united states, and particularly among the so called zine is christians, making them believe that the 2nd coming of christ is intrinsically linked to the political state of israel and um, you know, they and then this is a very um, you know, 10 years connection because if people vote in favor of why, you know,

supporting a military and government and in a different land because of the there will view, you know, that's good create to hold on a lot of problems and americans aren't as we know of, you know, still very powerful player. how, when do you think about it? do you think that problem hasn't been given enough attention and the political implications of using the religious and this course for creating support for it is around and is your how come us senators, quoting for really just more or saying this is that really just work is 35 because you are not no longer talking about, you know, people within the establishments who have kind of semester ideas. no, you're talking about people within government and we know that that is what you guys have already at least the conclusion that it is that really just warranty meant that very clear. and then those who are being sold for the rest of us as margaret or since, or just in his way to the positive they are using very biblical language as in

turning goals are to ashes, eradicating dependents. i mean, how do you find terrifying that we know that this must be differentiated from the language that is used by, by slightly political forces composite style. and this is quite a complicated issue. i just want to kind of highlight to things. so you sometimes can be used as a ford where you go and destroy and kill in the name of god. and sometimes face can be used as a shield. and we see this with palestinian most who's bought christians. i mean, we have seen a christian last. i mean a christian church, a christian hospital being destroyed, then we have seen that. what do you mean? anything from the christian community in gaza is very space oriented to receive themselves as a city, as far as like christian 2nd. so this is different and, and this whole idea that there are actually put fighting religious funds you made to them. the fact reality is the exact opposite. it is also on the bike or

palestinians walk by using this rather just fundamental isn't. and it's, and we are using face as a way to st. stay strong under the harshest of circumstance. now in your work for, for the center of fort is on global affairs, i'm sure you're quite familiar with this course of how potentially dangerous political design could be. i mean, a couple of years ago, it was a very popular topic. but do you see any difference between political as long and let's say political zionism in this particular case? yes, of course. and here i am. and excluding groups that could be directly or potentially manipulated and used by western governments to see political agendas in syria or elsewhere. not going to talk about these guys and i, i'm also excluding groups. and by the way, those guys, i usually turn this term is, by the way, i mean, like the prices, for example, wasn't brand of terrorism, even though they were a political the longest, in some sense. exactly. i mean,

that's the name of the game. you know, you're kind of create or many people to give a space to set themselves to operate and so you save your serve your interest. and at the same time, you dump them with all sorts of things. so in order for you to create this or to present yourself as the savior humanity, but the group's like his beloved, like like how much impact his time. and see all those in the region. the or non state actors by the operate with his national bank because they don't footprint beyond national boundaries. so if you don't have a just mission deliberate us beam, you know, and bring spin back to the baseline, the kingdoms of angels or restore that cain if they are not in any way interested, oregon, both of them that color political discourse. and unless you understand that, you could easily fall into the trouble. the american propaganda, the probably button is come us. her last is issac isis is a guy that and so forth. and certainly a lot of people in the us because they don't allow,

is serious and an honest conversation about these issues in mainstream media. a lot of people are buying into this and they are behaving as a indeed how much. and i says, are the same for the different, you mentioned his bowler and how mazda and correct me if i'm wrong with our thing. his ball of was, uh, pretty much um, empowered by the, uh, is rarely campaign against the pillow. where's come i us is a direct creation of, uh, all for israel i because, and from what i understand initially it was created as a single service group and it only through the deck and so far denying dignity into their power. steering and people that it turned into what it turned to do you think there will be any and perhaps of probably, but at least in toronto analysis on the part of these really special services on american special services about them. you know, the kind of groups that they read and what is actually supporting this resistance among the posting is that it's not about the concrete group,

but rather about the conditions on the ground. some guy who owns a student's degree, in fact i wrote a book about this issue and i derives a promise. and i wouldn't say it was created as much as it is where it is kind of hard to put bodies, go to a store for the experiments as they continue to doing. because in the west bank, again, by giving you little bit of space for a certain point, it took a rival to grow with the whole degree. it's fiction and the create civil wars and that sort of thing. but indeed, this is what happened of jamal this let me of this, that it was the, the, the kind of the 4 runner of how most in gaza and they were involved in cultural programs. university is hospitals, charities. but when you are dealing with a restaurant, organizational, but any kind is brand new or n e o otherwise, as that brussel society is part of the struggle against occupation, i guess apartheid naturally they are going to themselves motors to be part of that

movement. so we have that is what it is intended or didn't. and i really don't think that this a how much has with, on become the main resistance platform for palestine in garza. and in fact, at this point in the west bank as well. now speaking about resistance and my question may come across as very arrogant, but i do ask it out of the emphasis on the same proceed with the palestinian people . because when you leave in the, under the spirit of resistance and in the conditions of occupation for so long, i think the task of governing becomes very challenging. i mean, it's a very challenging, right back even for the most um, you know, developing nations. but i assume it's, it's, it's a, it would be a very hard challenge for the people of palestine. do you think they're still capable of from cooperating and running themselves? no. just resisting the imaginative under the support of the circumstances and goals

of government living under told to seat told a political i solutions managed to actually govern gonzalez under the circumstances . i know it's the you're not going to talk about the perfect sonata yet, but they actually did manage to govern garza to some extent on the all of this. i think, yes, i think the are more than capable of doing so. but is the external passions that make sense? so impossible. like right now, 60 percent of goals that has been either 40 or partially destroyed. if take is going to take the last number i've heard a few days ago, that is going to take about $3000000000.00. but now we might be looking at a 4 or $5000000000.00 from govern. garza the to bring water to process a brief 40 to gaza because of the pressure bite as well as the united states. how are the, you know, are going to be responsible for rebuilding garza and bring them all this money and, and so just they are capable of doing so if the external pressures allow good or is

up enough for the building of gaza to well, compared with on these very dark nodes, we have to leave it there. thank you very much for sharing your insights with us today. thank you for having and thank you for watching hope to see her again. it was a part of the the

the palestinian babies die due to a power outage of gods as largest hospital, according to local officials, thoughts as israel steps opened its ground. impatient also had the idea of us released footage of the false as the bustling it's outs inside northern gauze, among the ruins, the residential buildings. also this our, the outside jo biden's residents who took care of my favorite rallies a ceasefire and gaza safe place across the globe. the

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