the crossing ukraine. i'm joined by mega sony, kevin, and ken brown. he is a former australian career diplomat in bel rate. we have even guides. he's a research associate at build rates, institute of european studies, and in budapest, requests of george samuel. we use a pod cast, or it's a gaggle which can be found on youtube and locals, or gentleman, cross loc rules, and the fact that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate it, mr. former investor tony, let me go to you 1st here you recently wrote a pendant article under the title is the in game inside for ukraine, and i'm going to paraphrase you a little bit. ukraine has no options left, and russia has plenty. please explain that as well. the rest of it has military and political and psychological superiority. a key for a shame that has clearly been established since last september. and the traits

of the key of regime, in my opinion, has become a ralph, russia now controls the pace of military activity at the friends. they can decide whether they wish to go forward or whether they wish to stay in place. they couldn't vote a special military and circumvent uh which ukrainians on the side of christ with a choice of either going forward and being killed or not going forward and being seen to be a to us. i mean, unfortunately, zalinski watched them to go to the floor to be killed. and so we see an increasing decline in the military quality of k of sources. the tragic decline and the non bill of tree results of any consequence. now press one to to go forward.

they could, but we're up against t approaching this, then self imposed limits that the skill regardless ukraine as in some way the russian world. he's still trying to protect as much as he can of ukraine, civil society and civil infrastructure. he's instructed is this only to take out what is necessary to take us in order to main site, including military superiority. and he's hoping, i think, rather desperately. well, that's a good now, if i said, is that something will happen then keith? yeah, brand new battery changed to achieve a more realistic sense. all right. same with the realistic taste conveyed, the guys gave it to somebody. he holds all the options, but yes, he is constrained. well, you know, it's even let me go to you in belgrade, it's really interesting. they use the term stalemate because i think the west is

based the stalemate in its thinking and its approach. because it's not achieving any of its policy and aims. because at the same time and in this is something that is contentious at times. my good friend, george and i, are you up is all the time, is that russia steadily is degrading our ukraine's military. that is one of the primary objectives and it is being done, though. those of us will not. everyone is happy with the pace a bit. so i tend to agree with the former ambassador that, you know, as i've asked before, who's got the clock and who else the time and the russians have both stephen, go ahead and build. great. yeah, exactly. i mean, what we're dealing with now is the blame game. it is obvious that i wouldn't even say ukraine and in many respects. so ukraine and even tommy was an object of a proxy ward that wash and then he's waging and gas drug shop. and we see that the now now we don't know, you know who you who used to be blank if the last key is not responsible that it is

natal. therefore. 2 it seems to me that the weiss is trying to blame him for the feet that especially for the uh, failed counter offensive that took uh $200000.00 ukrainian soldiers, either being killed or severely uh, severely uh, injured. so uh, there are some really strange things happening here. uh, recently, major, uh, getting id talked yackel was, uh, was killed in his uh apartment. and he was the advisor to a general zillow's, me commander in chief of the ukrainian army, who is in a conflict with the landscape because he had other ideas about how the war should be waged. and this is not the 1st time and things like this happening, kids are left lucky, remind you all what happened at the beginning of the special military operation. after the 1st round of negotiations between moscow and give danny. so you have who

was one of the negotiating members of the negotiating team uh, all the, all the, the key a side of the cranial side was gold murdered in cold blood. yep. in front of his house and nothing happened, nothing followed. and so there are some really serious conflicts and the source of these conflicts is the right side of the blame game. yeah, it's or it's, it's really interesting when you and i have done it in our pod cast, kind of deciphering what's going on. and it seems like some publications are denigrating uminski pushing, so lose me. and then, but then the other way around here is there is a blame game going on. there is there's a, there's a lot of panic going on. and, and of course, because of circumstances the ukraine isn't always top of mind if you know what i mean, george, you know, what are the tea leaves tell you george story not to say because um, we know visit the, the ukraine you encounter offensive as failed. however,

rochester has to win this war and the russians who has to achieve the objectives that it had a set out on the february the 24th of last year, which was demilitarize ation denot, typic ation deliberation of the, the dumbass. they haven't been achieved yet. so it's one thing to say that your grade lily has fail. um and it's uh, account or offensive, but then russia has to then move forward and at the very minimum, liberate dumbass. i mean that, that has to be done and, and as well as a separate or for you. and you know, some of the difficulty is that there is nobody in ukraine, no one in here who's going to accept to the minimum conditions that were offered with the mine, which is that you asked you to give up where you have a territorial claims on the dumbass and it's a promotion here, so you give up on crimea and you give up on the nato membership.

it's so it is very difficult to seeing how i mean the native memberships of the united states and nato. and i'm going to give up on that goal, but it's hard to see how any regime can emerge in uh into that with accept those terms. so that's way to be honest, i think this will will continue. yeah, well, with the final final decision. yeah, essentially georgia in it, we're both in agreement there, there has to be reaching change or a different personality, lenient when you go back to the former ambassador in australia. also in the background of all of this, you know, feelers are being sent out anonymous sources say approaching to of and members of the zalinski. so it goes all kind of all pay care about, you know, who would be willing, under what circumstances to have some kind of negotiation. the problem with this kind of cloak and dagger journalism that i've come across is it doesn't really take into account. well, the russians even want to negotiate with these people, go ahead and i'll spell. yeah. well,

the answer is that the russians would not want to negotiate with the very young, trustworthy. and, and i pay, you know, a group of people who are running the show a new credit. and i mean, these people are not serious. they, they have a tom lee and equitably dealing with some indifference to the fact there's hundreds of the best man i've gone dead or permanently incapacitated. and now moving forward, the old and the week and the la even pregnant women to the friends putting uniforms on them. there seems to be explaining difference on the part of the people around zalinski to the loss of the, of the life blood to last with a member. so how could you guys have someone who is essentially so c, i pass these people out. yeah, patrick, of that, i mean this is, this is

a huge dilemma for us so that they have assume that if it's a rational act up and then at a certain point in time, the realization would be broad time to key. is that, hey you've lost this, it's time to come to you last isn't the gosh guide. but these people are not rational. so once again, i come back to this dreadful joyce and click and sizes. do you go forward to a huge offensive will, which will obviously cause great freedom on the civilian population and the infrastructure right across the brain? or do you somehow wait and hope that something happens in k s. and i think for the moment it seems to be a waiting game, the coach and the staple that i have decided to play. yeah. is stephen, what's your read on that? i oh, also thinking, i mean, it is kind of the way you want to phrase it. i mean, as long as you're not losing your winning so that that's one kind of

a rushing interpretation of what's going on right now in light of this quote unquote stalemate. steven? yeah, exactly. uh well, it depends on manufacturers how long this is going to last for i think i will certainly go into a 2024. uh and now the washington has with a lamb. uh uh, more precisely by those items organization, because uh they, i think it came to the realization that directly is winning the war that the crane is losing the bobs. the, the question is whether they wants to pro long this indefinitely with the aim of, uh, as many russians soldiers and equipments being got, you know, destroyed, and people killed. it's very cynical logic, but that's exactly what they are doing. however, russia is, it came out to be stronger now after 2 years of war. and the on the other hand, you have the upcoming election is in the united states. by the way, there won't be,

uh, most, probably any elections in ukraine because it's in war and the last 2000 and needs the elections because it would show that he's not as strong as he pretends to be. so washington has about a year to figure out what is going to, what it stands is going to be about is because uh as soon as uh, as trump wins. and it seems to be an imminent result. if the elections, fox defeats held in november and next year, uh then uh, the whole boise of washington 2 words uh, eastern europe towards your european question i would say will change. uh, so maybe the option of washington uh would be to drag more of european countries into the war. and that would be the most tragic outcome for you is we have the minnesota, i have the jump in here. but we can, we, with that, that is a real possibility with the people that were dealing with their gentlemen, i have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break,

we'll continue our discussion on ukraine's option. stay with all the new. i mean, you clear love seeing those little muscles do. if you look on the initial do one a significant dealer post on zillow, while the deal was, can use the put body. what do you do origin, but you also still was done those oxy green only believe sisters to do what i see these the buses, the little gear litigation says this done by to

the russian states never as one of the most sense community best most i'll send send up the keys to progress, be the one else calls question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin mission, the state on the russians cruising and split the ortiz full neck. even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the said this is steve and twist, which is the

hi. i'm rick sanchez. and i'm here to plan with you. whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. little opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please do the have the state department to see i a weapons bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your facts for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want my show stay main street because i'm probably going to make you comfortable. my show is called stretching time. but again, it's not. we don't want to watch it because it might just change the way in say the welcome back across. ok, we're all things are considered. i'm peter will build to remind you we're discussing ukraine's options. the

okay, let's go to my favorite sputtering partner george in buddha, pass. okay, we can put on the peter and george show right now, and i'm going to tear a page from your script and use it against me. and so i'm, so what solve the problem here? i mean, the russians are tied down. ukraine is a huge headache for them. there's other things going on in the post, so be in space. also a headache. the money is not going to dry up. i don't care how you do it. it's gonna get there. and so, you know, what's the big deal? okay, well, keep kinase in winning, but it's not losing the status. why was just fine, that's what you've been telling me for 20 months. george does ring true. many times go ahead as well. i've been saying it, then i have to keep say it on the link for the united states. this is still a relatively low cost affair. it's sort of penny ante stuff. i mean, american has truly is to but you know, how it 1cw2cw. it doesn't mean

a great deal of all the united states given the scale of its budget. and as long as americans are not dying, and as long as america kind of avoid getting into a direct shooting war with russia, which is very serious, then america can keep it going. now the only cabby at the, the only limitation is then you can keep it going. can you bring along without collapsing? and i, and in the that's a possibility. you great, good indeed. collapse and then biden's plans will be but no, but at the moment that as they see it is a bite ministration in the us balls and they can see it. this is a good deal because this is a headache for russia. russia doesn't know how to bring it to a satisfactory conclusion. they continue to lose lives. they continue to spend a great resources, and they haven't yet made a decision to fully commit to this war. you know, to say, okay, when we're not going to, we mobilize, we're going to really put our economy on

a war funding and we're going to just bring this more finally to a conclusion. they haven't made that decision. so as far as the americans are concerned, well, let's keep it going. it's they had a not house. well, let's go back to the farming basset or in australia i a, a variation on george's argument right there. actually, it does apply to the cube regime. i mean zalinski and is inner circle. okay. maybe there won't be as much money, but it's still a lot of money. and as long as there's complet goes on, the us is go to pay for it. oh and it's gonna pay for itself here. it's its features and all that. i mean, okay, maybe we're, we're not making much more progress at the front, but, you know, the status quote is least for the leads there. it's a good dig. yes. and can i have to know on stewart george just said, and that is, and it's very clear when you look at people like lindsey graham to the united states, it says goods to be killing soldiers on the training side as it is to be killing.

so i'm just on the russian side, and of course a lot, most of it is a dying on the, on the training side by an order of magnitude. but if you say, this is all kind of way cutting the rest and wilt. and if you're looking at it in cold april, um i used to it able advisedly, g, i political times a week and you cry into the long run things a week or rest. well. so the weakening of you cried if you're looking at it from associate past. the point of view from washington is a good saying that it doesn't matter really which side is being wake. and i want to emphasize that because the, the associate pass the, i mentioned the key evaluate is power levels button associated patsy. of the sorts of people in washington who uh, visually rest of the big uh we like kelly does the reasons why they're historical and cultural anselm. and i'm so, yeah, i mean they,

they will keep it going until something breaks in kids. and surely something must break and k of i'm very impressed by the sort of human interest stories that are coming out all the time from a website that i'm impressed by cold crime leaks in g. and i mean they, they produce so much come remove and that's what's really happening. something kind of break. well, you know, stephen is that, that's one of the things that i brought up in it is i actually jump george kind of already hinted towards it is that the ukraine is facing. society will collapse because it's completely financially dependent on it. donors in the west. okay. it's g d p is not worth talking about. it's indebted to its neck of the status quote is untenable, for least a long time we have winter coming up. of course it gets very cold there like it

does here in russia. i mean, we'd, so, i mean the, the move, the political elites and the military leads. they may have their own designs, but society is good. it continues to suffer. and we're going to still see people moving across the border and to europe. steven, exactly. i mean, to be quite frank, there is a big question whether ukraine is going to survive in any shape and form at the end of this as a country. because uh, besides the war happening in the east and southeast of today's you, ukraine. there are, of course pretensions on the parts of other countries on its west of the borders at the same time why i'm really concerned about is the possibility of the spreading of this war. and, you know, this associate, a static logic was, was just mentioned. and in that light, i just brought brought it up in the previous section the, the states and by german, a minister of, uh, a milli, 3 bodies be starting us who said that the german society should be prepared for the

possibility of a war in europe. i think this is really a scary, a language that he's using and i'm afraid that may be by those administration might just want to let the europeans deal with this, i think and elegantly moved towards other spots, all the room complex. we see what, what's, what is happening in the middle as well as the state of the state. but i think it's quite interesting. you said that because it, you could say that with tony told us the same thing about we're getting the russian world. i think that's really an interesting observation, but the bottom increase is, administration isn't bothered by a week in europe at the same time. or. yeah, exactly. i mean, they have a result of this is that the work that europe is, uh, it'd be became your relevance. and then you can see people like us to bypass around who globally sub sub that recently in the light on the stand. so who's on the line

and other european leaders towards the what is happening in gaza? so you're a, is the great it as a power and this especially goals for germany and, and, and friends who were blindly, constantly just, uh, fulfilling the wishes of washington by sending all the weapons all the money, all of the a, a for a war in which there is no clear a gold that these countries have. yeah, well there they were. we can by design. let's remember that by design george over the last couple of days we had the former head of nato. what else? milson and another head. i mean, his name doesn't come to mind real quickly. they're all coming out with these new fangled ideas about how to change nato, partial nato limited nato. i mean it's, it's really quite astounding and scary because they,

i guess they never read the 1st article of the nato trinity, what you're not supposed to be starting military complex. okay. but by integrating ukraine partially, what is that, is that like partially pregnant? i don't really know what they're talking about. they sound like socio pass to be george by the associate by the yeah, the under sluggers, moose and other thing as models the read the they will go to columbus supreme allied commander. and they're suggesting that. okay, well, we'll give up on some of the territories. again, there's no basis for thinking that anyone who can just give up on searches and the wrong ukraine can join late. so, but the idea is, of course, in saying in, because, because if the russians realize that this around the brain will become a member of nato, russia has every incentive to keep the will going and prevent this pump. the ukraine become a member of later and no, i mean, nato is going to accept us around the state. that is the bet you live at will with

in other states. i mean that's, that's the minimum condition that you have to fulfill to be a member of nato is, as you said, article one says, you cannot have any member of nato that is involved in a, or any kind of a conflict with a non member, non nato a member of state, so if you grand would do it wrong to greenwich or join nato, i am still have claims on the territory that is not by the russian federation and you are violating article one, no one the native is going to agree essentially to be in a defacto war against russia want maybe honestly in a bad but, but i don't think someone else is going to buy into it. well, i mean, it, let's go back to australia, tony. i mean, if, if there is a ukraine in some limited way is brought into nato and it's in, in conflict with russia, then one, what would stop the russians from hitting tale named berlin,

washington mean the alliances at war with russia. and this would be something that would be a choice of graven choice on the part of nato. the don't, these people are just standard the according world war 3. go ahead. to be honest, i don't worry about the ward extending into your i think since that last crucial, amazing of the night. so it ministers with zalinski came and then was humiliated. yeah. a few months ago. i think that prospect has completely receded now. so the robot assistance thing is gotta be settled within the present board. is of you crying one way, one way or another statement. let me give you the last word before we go to it before we end the program. yeah, well uh, i think that the, this is the treasure is developing, want to, and we know is the war. we'll continue and the washington will continue to,

to pay for as maybe they will sound less aid. but recently we're seeing the f sixteens being deployed the romania from uh, from the other ones. and uh, most probably, uh, the brain will get these uh, these plans. so the war will continue for some extent. but i think that that is more than clear that russia is winning the war. yeah, it's a, it's unfortunate. it will have to have so much more waste of treasury and of lives with the outcome that was already pre determined on the 1st day of this conflict. in february of last year, gentlemen, that's all the time we have want to take my guessing temperate bell rate and in budapest and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t. so you next time, remember, cross talk rules the, [000:00:00;00]

the, [000:00:00;00] the, by the middle of the 20th century, the portuguese colonial empire was in an acute crisis, particularly late 10 situation had developed in mozambique the people of this country were put in a humiliating position, income inequality ramp and illiteracy, this respect by the portuguese for the local traditions led to a mass unrest. getting 1964, the liberation front of mozambie for a limo began its armed struggle for freedom. the regular army was not easy to resist,

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like that is somewhat of the media you got on. i'm glad you know you got one way just under then use it in video sorta. my idea that i fits on a k. i knew i love is that goes to you that i mean, i think you can only go see i'm a persona on the be that me card number that i didn't go by. don't get almost the end to see if, if it's still not filled up by that out of in the see it, the single man, the manual and all that. i don't want to lose the remainder measured on it. be just a model units off on, you know, the system just likes it and say i could be of them, but these are, let's see. let me look to see then kind of see what i do. you have the candidate of this that fit on. so being at that full, let's see on there the most to go boss on the i suppose you, i'm let me say one of us, one of the meeting the union. so those new battery needs to be what somebody that get some given which are my policy. ok. so you see the goals in the 2nd. i mean,

either it is by you say know things on a, something different then generally a good thing fall into the 2nd floor on the top headlines right now and i'll see international as israel announced as a full hour. she monetary and pause for parts of northern gaza, coming off to her as for his engage and what a cold of military operation call getting tunnels on to the regions largest hospital. last set. as default, us narrative, gape israel, the green light to strike the issue of hospitals. his medical facilities are in dire need all across the entire public speaking english. so we're here in downtown san francisco, and as you can see around me is a crowd of people that are close to us. support for israel. yeah, cool. to end the siege of gauze or a hood on the streets of san francisco,