much stuff to match ever coming on the show you, you said recently that everything one says about recent events is going to hurt someone. why is it so difficult to even talk about foam or amongst palestinians in the parliaments of nato countries like your country, canada, that alone other countries in west and you are i think there are 2 major reasons. one of them is the reality that israel, the impetus, the found, the state of is rose, wooded and such as deep trauma of jewish people and your particular in eastern europe. but then of course, with the 2nd lower in germany as well. and europe and countries feel it, fear, offender of guilt about what happened. did you lose in europe? that's one stream. but the other end, so that there's a fear that by talking about passing in trauma you somehow and then initiating or invalidate in jewish trauma. but there's a more major reason which is that, um,

the english speaking countries, particularly where are rooted in colonialism the nail and whether it's united states or canada or australia. and of course, all on the belgian french, they all participated in the colonial project. but i'm saying is that these countries either were rooted in found in colonialism or have colonial policy themselves. so they're more likely to identify with the colonial mindset, the mindset of the people being colonial. and now it doesn't matter how you see the foundation of israel as being really dangerous trauma. the reality is that it couldn't have been established without phone imperial control. and the call is ation of the land of a land that was already populated by the end and as people. so the colonial mindset dominates less than thinking. and so the idea of this combination of historical

jewish drama, and a colonial project that to the western lines seems perfectly natural. so from the western point of view, the motion we like to do identify with the colonizer, the people being colonized, even after all the progress that so many people are talking about industry on, on television. i mean, you've, you've compared the lies in a donation media or about what's happening in gaza to the lives told the about vietnam before. um, uh the great and laid down eligible, who's been on this show actually, why, why do they lie? again, it's a, it's a, is in the service of imperial policy so that the united states has the biggest empire in the history of the world. is god, what a kind of military bases internationally it dominates the world culturally and less . so was china rising, but used to donated economically as well. and it's the united states decided long

time ago, just as breton decided back in 1917. and the 1920 is that it's an interest . so the jam prior to establish the jewish entity in palestine. i'm quoting winston churchill. in the same way the united states decided that it's in his interest to have this on single aircraft carrier go to 0 in the middle east and the press always serves the interests of the imperial project. so if you look at any number of american wars, vietnam based on the pack of legalize the gulf of tonkin incident, for example, that gave the excuse to the americans to bundle as we have now. never even happened . but all the press reporters, as reality, the weapons of mass destruction, which was the excuse to invade iraq, which a 5 year old child could tell was a could be concoction. nevertheless,

the press enthusiast will be tempted. and so for the last 6070 years, this depressed as enthused as a lead trumpeted. also, all these really talking points and totally ignored the, the, the occupation under the impression on the repeated killings of palestinians. because it suits american imperial policy, which is what the, the press is subservient to, you know, what? and then 10 years, 15 years later, they'll do some soul searching. oh my god, we made a mistake. ellsberg was right. you know, pentagon papers was right. we have now was based on a buckle buys or they'll do some soul searching. oh my god, there are no weapons of mass destruction. but the next door that comes along, they'll always fall into line. and they're doing that right now as well. and you think this is a conscious lie? i mean, clearly you've been talking design is communities in recent weeks. a mid c a that

you cause a genocide. then i'm going to say they know they're lying. and the what hillary clinton, she knows she's lying when she talks about bedded babies and the need to beaumont hospital. i don't know if this people at the top nor their line or whether they're so bought into the so boston to 80 ology that they'd be serving all their lives so that they're sitting on fluids. but the actual line probably sometimes they are. but probably also often they believe what they're saying, because i think when you consider who rises to the top in the system, nobody will speaks the truth ever rises to the top. so there's a selection process that happens, but then you get the level of a clinton or where joe biden, or reissue some smack, or justin too though, for that matter, they've been through some of the processes that they have to prove their loyalty to the system. now,

by the time they raced or taught only the most loyal to get there. and so it's hard to tell whether they're lying sometimes or whether just sincerely telling. uh, untruth is, you know, i, i'd have to talk to them personally. i can't tell i, i suspect they do both. and even though they do but, and in this context where the peoples of nato countries of the united states invest in your backing to the hilt of the israeli over ations on, on guys of the, the weaponry they've billions of dollars of age and so on. what is the rest of us and the people? how do they cope? i mean, of course, we're not, we're just forgetting for a 2nd. the trauma of all those survivors in, in gaza tonight and today. what, how do you suggest people cope with the trauma of those feeling hopeless in nato countries, arming the legs, genocide as they watch it on social media feeling deck is nothing they can do to

stop it. but of course, the reality is that these mass movements that arise in response to these horrors, they have their expressions, and a lot of people come together like a $100000.00 people them. but um, uh, a few days ago, um, but you know, it is, it is hard to keep up those kind of movements, you know, and the governments don't care. and anyway, what i say to people is number one, do the work. and this is for me as much as for anybody else, do the work, speak you to speak, and as long as you can connect with other people as much as you can. but don't be attached to the outcome. you know, going to that the outcome defeats, you know, that you contribute to the truth and the world by or pausing some atrocity. but don't take it personally because historically, the good guys always lows. that's just how it is, you know, and, and you have to just make accept the fact that you can do,

but it's something you've spoken the truth. you're, you've helped to sign something like those temporarily. i hope you mean. right. well, you lose temporarily. yeah. but you can do that, there's something important in the world in the long term. that's exactly my point . the idea of contribution has not been in vain. and there's a famous jewish rabbi said 2000 years ago or a little bit more that the task is not yours to finish. but neither are you fee not to take part in it. and so, so do you make your contribution? but don't do that as to the outcome. ok, then whatever. well, what about the this association then between the killing of children and those working on the weapons that you know, britain's biggest manufacturers be a systems, northrop grumman, raphael and boeing in your country in the united states. and of course, the canadian, the military and the associated companies, as part of the military industrial complex is massive in nature countries. how do

you explain that this association between the work is work on the weapons doing the killing that will and act as musicians. and so on told by their agents and studios and publishers just don't speak out and don't do what you just said about the need to follow your conscience or something like that. in canada and canada, there's been a number of people in the arts world who lost their jobs because of speaking out in here and vancouver, i live there are um, academics of spoken to and not being threatened by that, you know, by their employing institutions. those are the people who are participating such things. i mean the, ours, my on the manufacturer is on the civil dissociation that they, that they're cut off from now he mathee that they, they couldn't be connected to this as you commodity and do the job that they do. and i know lots of people are able to be very nice to their families and their dogs,

most filled with terrible things out there in the world. you know, and this is the wrong song. and you know, so, so that this association between what i do in the world and what i allow myself to feel is, is a very common human trait. and a lot of society, i use it to, it's like that, it's not only like that in the west. it's like that internationally. as long as there's another kind of association of talking to a young muslim student here at the time, you know, surveyors colombia, she says that she's not being on her body is the only way she can. so i, you know, so that, oh, actually she was worried about she's, and i mean, obviously i'm not feeling my feelings. and i said listen, don't worry about it that she organisms attempt to, to survive or to a new or what's on your bill. will come back to your feelings later so that this

association it can serve the function of doing terrible things in the world a but sometimes it's also a response to too much pain in the world. i mean, clearly inside edition about the holocaust came through slowly at 1st it was room or 1st about what the nazis were doing. i don't know thing. i mean, i see it's all because you're in canada and we saw a true to applauding members are not c s s, so there isn't just association going on that. but today we can use social media to see what's happening on this industrial scale in real time. well, and that's a germany in the 90s did everything they could to actually hide what they were doing. so that i actually fully believe that all the most german saw the anti jewish laws and practices and attract and violence of the nancy's they didn't know about auschwitz, you know,

they didn't know about treblinka because sometimes they didn't want to know. but they didn't know which doesn't mean that they didn't support the understand that is and then the, you know, the nasa state but is specifically know about the atrocities many people did. of course, many soldiers saw them, but just been there must have talked about it at home, but it wasn't the mass media. what is particularly horrendous right now, and i think it's a politically dark time in the world. and i've talked to a lot of people about this is that we're seeing it happen. we're seeing babies, blonde, see, and speaking the lives of their children, are the rental doctor got all my tell you. i'll have to stop you that more from the renown physician and award winning all of the after this break the,

the floor is the lowest form of human behavior. and so was upon proceed west and the weight supports the wars in ukraine and israel, but their publics. don't. another casualty is the war on free speech. conservatives to be clowned themselves for demanding, in israel exception the

the acceptance. and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show . seriously. why watch something that's so different. whitelisted opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to planes or do they have the state department, the c, i a weapons, bankers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want my show stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, it's not. we don't want to watch it because it might just change the way you

the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the renowned vision and award winning goals. i don't think i have all of my tags. so it's all right, i'll come out today for interrupting you and ended up when we were talking about the real time viewing of people billions around the world of what's happening in gaza. i was saying i wouldn't waste is particularly dark time right now. is that raleigh seen a lot. i know in live action, almost the dismemberment through young children and parents digging their kids out of the rubble and the politicians are just saying, this is okay. and. and the media for the most part is justifying. and there's a huge disconnect with move up, people are watching and what they're being told. and i think that's hard for a lot of people right now. and this is almost unprecedented. it's impossible to

compare corrupt these atrocities. and let me just say for the record that october, the 7th was, itself is an atrocity. and my view, um, but this ongoing, they have play cruelty, unspeakable cruelty that we're witnessing in the face of media support. and the political class in most of the western world is just sharing it on is the darkest thing i've ever seen in my whole life. and that's saying a lot is really saying a lot coming for coming from you. obviously. i mean, you did mentioned october 7th. the israel is indeed an apartheid state as a is rarely a n g o is like the tell him say it does that justify events like october? the 7th, i mean, nelson mandela's dad's now have interviewed him and of course he believed in the

use of violence against civilians in the fight against apartheid. south africa not nothing justifies october. the 7th. i don't, but it's not a question to justify anything. is a collection of do we understand it and how do we understand it and how do we move forward to something different? and there's always this question of is, is it is really response start over the 7th port portion of the disproportionate? well, another question is, is that the, the 7th portion of the response to the, to years of oppression and apartheid and killings and massacres. so you can begin with october, the 7th. and i don't believe that the feeling, but i firmly reject the idea that it is legitimate to kill one on people and children and all the people and so on. at the same time, when you look at where that arise from, where that came from, which is,

as other people have noted as been called, the world's largest concentration camp in 2005 people are blaming home us. and i'm not here to support on those. i don't, i come on certainly what they stand for, what they do, what they do, their own p, the factor, even if i say that to push them back to the i know, but we might get on to why you feel. you have to say that because differently. yeah, yeah, no, yeah, because the colonization is tilted in such a way as to make it necessary to even say that, you know, but what i was gonna say was, but in 2005, there was a study done in guys internationally actually looking at children in war zones, the more as traumatized kids in the world with the kids living in gaza. this before almost took over. so it's, you know, so in other words, well, we have here is generations of trauma as children growing up and it's open their prison looking across the fields where the families used to live in work. and when

they do peaceful protests, they're picked up by his early sniper. you know, so why don't we asking was october the 7th, a portion of the response to, is there any pump or see, where are we asking is on the bottom, your browser. but person to talk over the 7. i mean, it's a completely a store call. and as is really historian, you know, i'm poppy talks about the historic size, the action of, of the situation. so interested in media, every attempt is made to the store size of the so like it happened in a vacuum. it's not a justification to say that it does not happen in a vacuum. it happened after decades of collective, brutal trauma visited on the palestinians. that's ongoing. well, that's the input. that's what i told you. gutierrez said, of course, and is there a cold under the resignation of the un secretary general and the non pop a week,

a be able to see our interview with him on the rumble channel after october. the 7th, the, you know, about this region, you, ford, for through, you've studied this area all your life, given me. what about, uh, there were only hundreds of thousands of the seats of britain and so many tens of thousands. and so in the united states, the cities across the country and in north america, what about the powells favorites, stand by of human nature? how do you expect the use the events there are those that don't really understand the situation in palestine? to further the idea that this is somehow to do with human nature and that you can't really strengthen the belief that human nature has the potential to be good out of what we're watching on our social media at the moment in my book. and this will normally show kindly, mentioned as a chapter on the sole cause human nature. and the argument is that human nature is by a necessity, aggressive and individualistic,

and now style and, and violence and so on. total nonsense, you know, um human nature is a range of potentials and it's a question of what conditions give rise to what kind of potentials my son, the annual who you haven't met. but my 2nd son, let's just say my 1st and my older son into 2 young israelis and instagram a few days ago, were against or were against what this side is doing. well, if this human nature, why and a supporting the war to, you know, i mean, she looked at the boat, it was a human being, hitler was a human being a jesus was a human being and tell him, was a human being. and joe biden is a human being and so are the people that oppose jo button. so there is no human nature. what there is, that's that list there is, are systems that promote one aspect of human potential another. but people are

faithful being infinitely cruel. and incidentally kind and the question is, what kind of conversations that we need to have and what kind of conditions you need to establish. they'll promote the be not non folding over a potential, as opposed to the violent and aggressive and cruel ones. aside from the political structures obviously here in the systems, then how do you think fear perpetuates these mastic as of, of babies and children, fear of vitamins warships imagined by doing the being a human figure of a politician? well look for your father lawson's fear of speaking out. fee is of a uh you know, at the anti defamation league i understand cool jewish groups. so this is a 4 piece. hate groups. yeah. yeah, yeah. and just like me, i always told there were full of self hatred and then it was nonsense, you know,

particularly laugh if it wasn't so tragic. but so known. chowsky said that there's nothing more easy than to make the american people afraid. and fear is a powerful form of political control, because then people are afraid, the rational parts of the mind goes offline and they go into the defensive mode and defensive mode, they're willing to, but with any kind of aggression. now look to be fair. after october, the 7th, and there's every reason why many israelis will go into fear and mode. i mean, some think terrible happened during the last people and you know, now they also doing so in a vacuum where they don't understand the boston and situation at all. they're not taught it, they're taught to ignore it. but nevertheless, a lot of fear that some young nothing yahoo! who has practice the same policies all his life. he doesn't need fear to do all

this. he will pass the proposed indians. he has been tortured. he has their villages taken over by settlers. he belongs browser repeatedly getting hundreds of people. but he'll take that fear and he'll use it to justify the worst kind of atrocities. and that's what politicians do. so the vietnam war withdrawal based on his dominated theory, that is sure that the climate is degree and then they're going to take over the whole world. so you make the american people afraid and that allows you to manipulate them into it is not but dissipating animal participating in but also condoning the worst kind of atrocities. so fear is both a genuine and human response to the thread, but it's also a potent quote to, to manipulate populations with and fear some might say is a part of modern life. i mean, katy, there's a fear in the highly unstable economy about the feeding of family. the

idea are in mass media or news is often to try and create fear of your next door neighbor. because make the world see more criminal than it is stuff i might say. so how do you, how do you go past this fear and somehow and daily at the moment the fear mongering is done as how mos are isis of regardless of whether the united states are involved with isis. and they're trying to make americans and canadians feel that somehow hamas are going to attack b. c. place in vancouver or something. well, that's the conversation that's going on is that, you know, almost wants to kill all the jews in the world, and they're going to feed them there. they're going to come out to, you know, realistically, taking is speaking, just a little nonsense. a mazda is a relatively small organization compared to say, these real estate living in a area of 5 miles, but 25 miles highly controlled. they've always been the so they could sting israel,

but they could never oppose any dangerous signal, significant the entropy to let alone jews and the rest of the world. that's the 1st point. the 2nd point is, let's assume that how mazda is you heading organization. that's all it is. let's just assume that for a minute. for the sake of argument, who are these people are not much the same from what i showed him that i mentioned . i'll go into the study in 2005. where are you the most traumatized population in the world? and when most jews, they see where are the uniforms with the star of david and the you and everything that's being done to them is done in the name of the jewish state. and the major jewish organizations in the world by and large line up with what's happening to them and justify it and have for decades. do we have to

do? we have to identify the hatred of them as a member for doing business with historic and assemblies in europe is not the same . i'm not just to find it again and just saying there's nothing more natural then under those conditions, traumatized people will. they ate their oppressors, and if the oppressors are saying we're doing this as jews in the name of the jewish people, what do we expect? and so i wasn't the only one to respond to october. the 7th, in a very um, mixed way. i know, and i thought it was horrible. and at the same time i thought what are the expect after all these back is what did you expect? and that wasn't the only one lot of the people who visited the place, like i have been to the occupied territories who,

who know the situation 1st. and that's how still it to a we're the ones when i say we, i mean is really, i don't identify which is a state, but essentially state, but by the colonial powers. going back to the 19 twenty's that i've created a situation where there's gonna be a lot of hatred. and what's really interesting is if you look at the major design is leaders of been going on. the job within ski begwayne was the 1st by minister as 0 learning. the drivetrain ski found the, the version is honest. when of the scientists move in, which became her route, which would be led by begun and fundamentally by shamir, and later by shamir, both been going to gelatin ski as well as the motion of the day on, even in the 1950 said, the recall what the odds are doing cameras and but all they're doing is they're defending the land from us. don't take a moment. okay, thank you. all right,

thank you. and that's it for the show. and condolences from the whole team here we're going underground to those bereaved by the ongoing violence here in the middle east. we'll be back with a brand new episode on saturday, but until then, keep in touch by the social media. if it's not sensitive and you'll country and had to add channel going on, the ground tv on normal, don't come to watch. new and old episodes of going underground sees that the, [000:00:00;00]

the, [000:00:00;00] the police 12 people are killed as the idea shows the in the nation hospital in gaza, according to local officials as well. claims come out cause the infrastructure of that. but the humanitarian group is monitors be facilitate. so it's not say false narrative to justify the attack. this is truly a heinous crime that these guys around is committed. hospitals, enough places for financing and un children's emergency funds, cry style, or humanitarian does all say in going to we hear exclusively from the world bodies