also, it indicates that whoever wrote her for presentation and the remarks that she gave for the council was probably much more familiar with internet debating culture. regardless of the united states and western leaders, stuck to their standard narrative, blaming russia for the entire crisis and refusing to acknowledge the underlying routes of the conflict. however, this was an important the opportunity for the russian ambassador to get a presentation laying out the details on the 10 year anniversary of the euro made in advance, which led to toppling of the granting government and to the situation. the world now faces in ukraine developing did 5 did over the years as us leaders seem unwilling to de escalate. we spoke with klein, preston and international attorney who says the 2014 might on to was triggered by western interference and has prevented the people in don baths from living in peace . there will not be any agreement on you praying, even once this war or military operation is concluded in russia's favor,

we do all know now what the reality is and the people in the eastern part of the former ukraine, or are now part of the russian federation. and that was, that was caused by the actions by the, by the nato nations, and he's running against the civilians, the people in and done this and, and those barriers who were simply wanting to live their lives peacefully and after them the coo and the, my don in 2014, they weren't committed to do so, and we're actually attacked in ways that are as risk as what's happening in gaza. now these people were attacked by their own government and um, which actually makes it worse to guys. so you just that it's not yours any surprise . what happened in the union today?

but it reminded me of an impasse because russia is a permanent member. and any kind of resolutions raxon is that the union tries to take will be retailed. so i think this is just going to be the way it is spoken a like some cross talk. peter lavelle talks with his guests about how the west gambled and last when it comes to the complex and gaza. the hello and welcome across the top where all things are considered on peter lavelle. ukraine is on a losing streak. i just can't get a break. is counter offensive as an odor. catastrophe is reputation for gross

mismanagement and corruption is on display. there is zelinski fatigue and now the gods of war. the west gambled in last times to end this conflict. the cross. how can you create? i'm joined by my guess, larry johnson in tampa. he is a managing partner with burg associates or former c. i a analyst and us state department counterterrorism official in miami. we have nicholas davies. he is co author of war in ukraine, making sense of a sense was conflict. and here in moscow we crossed the dimitri bobbitt. she is a political analyst and editor at in us me, internet media project or a gentleman, cross talk roles. and if that means you can jump any time you want, i'll let me go to larry 1st here. i mean, things are going pretty bad for ukraine. i don't even know where to begin. i hinted towards it in my introduction. where would you begin? larry?

when penny print skirt, the new newly appointed envoy by joe biden, to handle the ukrainian affairs, shows up and basically entails the lensky. uh, so can you get along without any money from us? that's a clear sign that the things are not going well. they're already starting to appear videos on kilogram with pension errors in ukraine, yelling and being quite upset because they're not getting paid. so they're on, there's no single point of light and for ukraine, and this is sort of ironic or it's symbolic is uh, you know, that part of the world descends into winter and dark this. uh, ukraine is headed into great darkness. yeah. well, nicholas um, you know, i don't like to use the phrase i told you so, but those of us that bit are serious about following this conflict. predicted this

almost to the t. i mean, this is the way it was going to work out. but the problem is, so many people have died in the process and ukraine as a functioning civil society is teetering right now. um and you hear all of these kinds of voices in the background. no one wants to be the 1st to say, well, something has to be done about it. you know, you can go through, you know, even the mainstream media and their whispers and, and rumors and innuendos about, you know, what needs to be done because everyone knows it's an older catastrophe and failure . nicholas and yes, and the catastrophe is, is, is really the direct result of the british and american decision in march and april. yep. up to $22.00, to kill the peace talks, kill the neutrality agreement. and while now we are hearing a lot of voices in the us and in the west,

and who are ready to make territorial concessions. uh, what we're not hearing from uh, from leaders in the west is the recognition that a neutrality agreement is what is needed for ukraine. as zalinski said on march the 27th of last year, to as quickly as possible, restore peace in our native land. and that's of course, what bar as johnson went to kiff and talked him out of um, so the needs to be the recognition from west and leaders that, that new try to let the agreement it or some form of neutrality for ukraine is key to lasting, stable resolution of this conflict, and i don't see that happening yet. yeah. and nicholas to add onto it. let's remind

our viewers. zelinski at the exact moment that you mentioned there. he was asking to give up what he did not even have. he didn't have crime in it and he didn't have the down bass now his loss so much more. so at that point he was, he was asked to give up something that he didn't have. that was not as hard as it seemed the most. let me read you some headlines here. top zalinski aid questions, ukraine survival, another one. ukraine must brace for the loss of us support. rene, this is coming out of to, i mean, these are not, we're a no republican saying they're going to cut off the funding. i mean, these are the, this is the client states saying, you know, you let us down this path. now, what demo uh, what was, yes. uh, basically we've had the is, uh, so ro, scans of us articles. uh, there was, uh, the handle. uh you agree and all the forces was what was the what it is that what

was the was said that the ukrainian forces and the russians was wondering, the dead more that there was no victory inside that people are just dying for nothing. then uh, there was a report uh from uh, simon schuster you know, which described to the atmosphere around. was it ask yes, very much that must be around. that'll keep you into the, during his last mom's in the imperial transfer rate inches bunker. ah, so basically you, well, the western media are starting to raise the wall. so the assumption is wrong. that the expected victory, you know from that so hold counter offensive. that's mystery will never come. and uh, and then we've had these depressing not to go from prison by the few days ago, bobby assumed the washington post, but wrecked to there. he was not a she did not write

a single word about the compromise she kept comparing. rosset to come us, which is absurd, and which is simply counter productive. and she kept saying that the invest in money, and i'm sorry people, you know, the war in your brain and the, in the water and gaza was i go to investment. yeah, i mean, this is just terrible in south coast, and it's only, it's only strengthens the result over options between all these branch. so, you know, the basement of russian is, leads from that even the games, the brakes to be sure, you know, basically where for example, the whole dollar rolling games, you know, the why the end of the organization. so saying they want to bias this, these woke up at school, so all the adjuster can basis, the rochester them. there is no other way we must we because we even put rules where we're down. yeah. i mean, we will not be treated as human beings anymore. yeah, well, you know, larry,

i don't think joe biden is knows the difference between a mouse and homeless, but that's not the topic of the program. larry, you know what? one of the most important misunderstandings and false narratives that we have had all about this conflict. it's about territory, it's not about territory at all. we go back to the very beginning, the not to vacation, that means the regime in care of and it's in its satellite figures must go. this is ultra nationalism must go. i mean, in the last new cycle we had an uh, you cleaning official saying, you know, russian, you know, russian isn't russians are not even a minority and they don't exist in ukraine. okay. that's very much like what we hear about the what, what the israelis have to say about palestinians. again, another topic, the 2nd one was demilitarization and that's what's happening. what is really remarkable, gentlemen, over the last couple of days or so we had officials in camps, there was never

a counter offensive. what are you talking about then you it's still become, i mean this is, this is a kind of delusion that they're living in larry. i have never seen this kind of disconnect from reality. among people who are actually, you know, they're educated and experienced people. richard hawes and that good lord, he's, you know, he's been around for 40 years going back to the 1980s. he was sort of a protege of uh, henry kissinger. and he writes with charles captcha about a piece of foreign affairs that is so out of touch with i. on the one hand, they admit what's going on, taking place on the ground in ukraine that ukraine is losing, that ukraine hasn't made progress. and yet they didn't turn around and pretend that ukraine still has a chance. it doesn't. if it's gone is over, it's a, it's like that seen from the movie dumb and dumber where jim kerry is asking this

woman who's already rejected and said no other. yeah. basically no way i'm going out with you and he goes so there's still a chance. yeah. there's no chance. oh yeah. and yeah, i really like the dumb dumb are because i think that really, yeah, it's i, i always kind of look for those analogies, but it's per because i'm sorry, keep going larry. what, no, i just gonna say, in fact, the guy, some dumb and dumber are smarter than these policy makers that we see in the west. they continue, as you said, they focus on this notion that all right, so last territory. completely ignoring the fact that when russia withdrew its tank and columns from north of kia on april 1st started on april 1st and began that withdrawal that was always presented in the west as russian to feed. and, but we now know that that was a goodwill. good faith gesture by putting in order to say ok, we're going to,

we're serious about this piece negotiation and that the united states and nato were the and so full, sab, a tours in that process, and destroying that piece process. nicholas, the problem is that the overarching problem is, is that the west nato world is never recognized that russia has any legitimate security interest. yeah, i mean the, the, and this is why they are now starting to aim for a frozen conflict with, by, you know, drawing new lines on the map through ukraine, but not actually resolving the underlying conflict. yeah. um, you know, they, they want to have another roll the dice, uh, at a later, later date. uh and so you know that with that willing to uh, negotiate some sort of cease fire and, and some such as territorial settlement that uh, the like,

all these other frozen conflicts around the world. and of course, once again, back to power stein is that the most terrific one we're seeing right now. um, but that's uh, so sit so yeah, when you look at the highest and comp chan would you who are say what they, the 2 of them have been saying all along. essentially this is yeah. that they, they are accepting. they are accepting the neo cons. yeah. oh, of a u. s. foreign policy. they know that victoria newland, and antennae blinking well that nicholas i moved up here because we have to go to our break. was it the way they phrase it? they always probably will get a find that will give the russians an offer, and that's how they do it. it's hilarious. okay, gentlemen, i have to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on you can stay with our team, the

the needs of counter rushing states never as tight as i'm one of the most sense community best. in most all sense and up the must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on russia to day and split the r t smooth neck,

even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube. the services for the question, did you say they requested the 1941 with the nazis health situation, ultra nationalist, the astonishes the claim, the independent state of croatia. shortly off, the seizing power. they built the scene of us concentration camp a place associated with the worst atrocities committed in yugoslavia during we'll go to use dashes, use the cam system to isolate and exterminate subs, roma, jews, and other non catholic minorities and political opponents of the fascist regime conditions in the senate of us campbell, who renders the gods to which it to arise and the prisoners they send them

a consultation temps. so most of them died. it was incredible genocide. the welcome act across sack were all things are considered on peter lavelle, german and you were discussing the situation and you could right, the ok, let's go back to the team and here in moscow is the, these ridiculous narratives. the person there, there was no counter offensive. it's a stalemate. no, it's not a sale made by a this good. when we was these people say it, it just makes the round. so it really is very irritating here. but but, but demons. what are the, what are the problems is here is that, um, why would rush should be in a rush because everybody says the putting this thinking this, the crime,

one thing says they have no idea what they're thinking. i always find it appealing to who on the bbc? well, thing is thinking this, you know, i have no idea how they know these things. okay. what the russians aren't in a rush for good reasons. daemon. yes. and uh, basically uh, the western media contradicts itself on the long term, the right that the roster joules of the war of attrition. that basically your brain is running all the resources unless we help. there is that sense of agency we need to help as soon as possible. otherwise they're great in front of will collapse and all the other crimes they say, oh you do. it is not deliberate and what he promised to deliver. uh probably they say that we just went okay some, some of the medias say that we do have to hardy out because he has an excess before you just a few months ago and all these years they said their connections and roger made no

sense. so there's a lot of contradiction in what we hear from the west. uh, but the reality is indeed that the roster even the law is stronger and, and the there is absolutely no way you can deny this and also gray me, it's all community and all of them and people don't boss all 3 media and all that. they little man or never angry to leave it be under the opinions gauntlet of the ukrainian troops. if the, our, our, uh, try to answer the standard you will need real, get real, resist the snow, the kind, all the real resistance. there was problem for us to us by the west, the media and of never realized. i mean that you bring in on it turned out much stronger than the worst expected. but there was no real, a garage. there was good view of movement which, which, which was processed by the west and media and the d,

the in terms of what his thoughts as solidly turned out that the world is not so much determined by the west to the point him as you come all the point them, as you can sell oil, not only do they your be union and the uh to japan who can sell it to india. you can sell it to china. you know, uh basically country is over uh, brakes uh, gauge and more and more of importance van d b is already exceeding the g d p. all the just uh, so uh there was a lot of things that the west did not include and it is going to go away since when the provo josh it into the small. and we can see right now that the will do indeed have for an a and b and the certainly which is not thinking of what fiona hill and mr cop to expect him to do. you know the meds you've made them so it's about a discussion glove who tried to be able to talk to them honestly. you know,

i think he was very soon seeing it on us to talk to them for all of us and while, and then you well supported z, but that's not what is a good game. it didn't. you notice, but at those con pads that we, you know, when people in these journalists and so called analysts stand up, they're more interested in hearing their own voice in their own question. they never listen to the answer. okay. they're just, there's that's way to or wired larry i, what i'm looking to add a bit more carefully than all of this rubbish that is constantly being written that makes less and less sense as deem is pointed out. as all 3 of you pointed out, is it a political collapse within cube? i mean it's, it's so interesting. when you see the economist been time magazine or, you know, other european above. okay. they're kind of like picking winners. have you noticed that lose name rone, are we getting a landscape? i mean, this is kind of inside baseball stuff could be a lot of smoke, but it's kind of interesting, larry. well, there's a little bit of psychological projection going on with the west in terms of

protecting the collapse of putting because what we're seeing in the united states politically, it is a great division and a lack of consensus that the one candidate that seems to have the most support, donald trump is the ones. this is most of the bill of 5 by the establishment and yet, and that the thing i, you know, i hope that the russian listeners and the russian people understand one thing about what's going on in the united states. swipe down. there is no body in any position of authority or influence that can stand up and talk about. we need to re establish normal relations with russia. we need to recognize that blood or mere prudence is a genuine leader and somebody we're going to have to deal with any, any politician that attempts that is immediately tarred as some create, you know, popping to put some uh cell out to the communists. i mean,

there's still that there's still so many americans who can said, can you believe that russia today is the soviet union of yesterday. yeah, yeah, absolutely. know. well, you know, you know, larry, if, if you say something like that eventually eventually you'll be called an anti semite and a racist. okay. the they close the default positions. okay. and no matter what you say, and the establishment disagrees with you, you're either an anti semite or a racist. okay? and of course, by donald trump so much he must be both even though is a daughter converted today is but you know, those are details here. you know, nicholas, one of the things that you know, really bother me like from a responsible state craft and all of that, they know that very well funded places. you know, when you to still it all down, they all and they said it and the 1st week when after the complex started but they, they won't use the term exactly. but what they want is minutes. 3, we need minutes. 3, that's what they think they think they just do it always down to that. well that is

well if minutes one and $2.00 didn't work, why would minutes? 3 work the nicholas. yeah, it's we we, we surely have done past that. i mean, the basis of minutes to which did bring a relative piece uh, and an end to the worst fighting of 20142015 with the at least 14000 people killed. but yes, ukraine completely failed to fulfill the political aspects of that agreement. and in other words, to grant or economy to little hands and don't yet. and so now yes, the one has gone down yet uh are gone. they are an independent to a part of russian. so, um, so yes, i don't think, i don't think that is a revival. but again, going back to march 2022,

ukraine and russia were able to sit around to table in turkey and, and reach an agreement that they both could live with. and this is obviously what needs to happen again, but the needs to be a realism on all sides in as long as the west is, is effectively a, in forming the strategy for ukraine. and ukraine is acting as a puppet of nato and the united states. and then they heat, they are still not going to be allowed to negotiate a viable, stable agreement. and so the shift the needs to happen is the shift in the united states. and, you know, kind of, as larry is suggesting that the biden administration, under the grid of, of the,

of the neil collins who had let the united states into a dead end all over the world. since the 19 ninety's, the needs to be a returned to 2 serious diplomatic relations with every kind of a weapon spreading, polluting china and russia so that we can actually solve the real problems that we're all facing in this world. yeah, but yeah, i agree of a 100 percent nicholas, but that would compromise a gemini, that would compromise the supremacy of nato. they're not going to lead either one go diem. a supremacy nato's a nato's rid around the world now adds out of area ambitions. this is what happens, what has to happen is a catastrophe when and i don't say that lively because a catastrophe means a lot of people die, diem a well,

that's true. and i completely agree with nicholas i. i feel what he does describe, but i spoke with the wrong, ready to go. i knew would be the i d o d o the more than the west needs to change. because this is a ready to go. i told you which rejects compromise which rejects any kind of diplomacy. actually look, i recently a drum, a magazine called the drum and forwarded me to stop the variable that on the diploma attempt. so that the, it was it or what a diploma to be. because what she is doing, and what by that is, do you know that quoted respectively does a lot of accounting data solve as the doing before then the most, each. sometimes you meet the often, any voltage they reach the, you know, the a test, the old rules of diplomacy, even the common decency you know that you don't insult your opponent,

that you don't teach your opponent, you don't collect to see more her. this is the reason why the problem is always where ties and, and the dolls use, you know, they, they almost never wear uniforms. because the aim is to make a distinction between the process as a function. we're not talking during the diplomatic adults. people are not talking about i d o n g. they're not teaching each other. the result of the program. yeah. because the west is not. i mean, let me, let me finish up with larry here. it's kind of like the, the, the state department coming out. we're not going to judge in israel fits it. we're not going to be the judge jury and executioner of israel's breaking international law is some us oh, of course they are. okay. that's exactly what deem is debbie yet? that's it exactly. what do you mean? because a, this inability to think differently. last 30 seconds. go ahead larry. the art of diplomacy is telling

a mother that her child is ugly and she thank show at the end. so being able to have that kind of scale. but what the united states has turned into our, our approach is either sanctions or war. we can't do both. well, that's something they have to wake up to. and the guy said, i didn't want to say it lightly. but this the way, the, the, the way the train is leaving going on course the catastrophe is an impending, unfortunately for all of a gentleman, that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guest in tampa, miami, and here in moscow. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our dc and next time remember prospect the, [000:00:00;00]

the, the say is really a cabinet reportedly approves a hostage exchange with some us for a temporary cease fire. sylvia is expected to release over $100.00 the palestinian prisoners amid the ongoing diplomatic efforts, he is really armies priced out of hospital in northern and it does the killing is free doctors and, and heirs private kills to journalists from 11 is tv channel near the countries border with israel. some european news outlets accused the journalist of having tries to terrorist their colleagues and i like the color that says it's fair reporters are being targeted. they were trying to get the jewels