versus the more they go ahead with the ring carson, the more they will see the the quad meyer, the regional composition, seems to be already on holding. everyone in the coming days. additional well joined the call for usability are now the return of our to fox to india. looted during british colonial rule, has recently taken pace. next week, chronicled painstaking efforts dedicated to repeating the complex pressures in our short documentary cost of and am part of it gets going right at the same just don't have to shape

out the application and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves will support, we choose to look so common ground the the the hello and welcome across the top where all things are considered on peter lavelle. ukraine is on a losing streak. i just can't get a break. is counter offensive as an odor. a catastrophe is reputation for gross mismanagement, and corruption is on display. there is zalinski fatigue. and now the gods. a war. the west gambled in last times to end this conflict.

the cross lucky you create. i'm joined by my guess, larry johnson in tampa. he is a managing partner at burg associates, a former c i, a analyst, and us state department counterterrorism official in miami. we have nicholas davies . he is co author of war and ukraine making sense of a sense was conflict. and here in moscow we crossed the dimitri bobbitt. she is a political analyst and editor at, you know, as me, internet media project or a gentleman cross type roles. and if that means you can jump anytime you want. i'll let me go to larry 1st here, i mean, things are going pretty bad for ukraine. i don't even know where to begin. i hinted towards it in my introduction. where would you begin? larry? when penny print skirt, the new newly appointed envoy by joe biden, to handle the ukrainian affairs, shows up and basically entails the lensky. uh so uh,

can you get along without any money from us? that's a clear sign that the things are not going well. they're already starting to appear videos on telegram with pension errors in ukraine, the yelling and being quite upset because they're not getting paid. so they're on, there's no single point of light for ukraine. and this is sort of ironic or it's, it's symbolic is uh, you know, that part of the world descends into winter and dark this. uh, ukraine is headed into great darkness. yeah. well nicholas, um, you know, i don't like to use the phrase i told you. so, but those of us that bit are serious about following this conflict. predicted this almost to the ti. i mean, this is the way it was going to work out. but the problem is, so many people have died in the process and ukraine as a functioning civil society is teetering right now. and you hear all of these kind

of voices in the background. no one wants to be the 1st to say, well, something has to be done about it. you know, you can go through, you know, even the mainstream media in their whispers and, and rumors and innuendos about, you know, what needs to be done because everyone knows it's an older catastrophe and failure . nicholas and yes, and the catastrophe is, is, is really the direct result of the british and american decision in march and april. yep. up to $22.00, to kill the peace talks, kill the neutrality agreement. and while now we are hearing a lot of voices in the us and in the west, and who are ready to make territorial concessions. uh, what we're not hearing from uh, from leaders in the west is the recognition that a new traveler,

the agreement is what is needed for ukraine. as zalinski said on march the 27th of last year to as quickly as possible, restore peace in our native land. and that's of course what bar as johnson went to kiff and took him out of um, so the needs to be the recognition from western leaders that, that new try to let the agreement it or some form of neutrality for ukraine is the key to last thing stable resolution of this conflict, and i don't see that happening yet. yeah. and nicholas to add onto it. let's remind our viewers. zelinski at the exact moment that you mentioned there. he was asking to give up what he did not even have. he didn't have crime in it and he

didn't have the down bass now his loss so much more. so at that point he was, he was asked to give up something that he didn't have. that was not as hard as it seemed the most. let me read you some headlines here. top zalinski aid questions, ukraine survival, another one. ukraine must brace for the loss of us support. rene, this is coming out of to, i mean, these are not, we're a no republican saying they're going to cut off the funding. i mean, these are the, this is the client states saying, you know, you let us down this path now what deem a well, yes, uh, basically we've had the is, uh, so ro, scandalous articles, uh, there was, uh, the handle, uh you agree, and all the forces was what was the, what it is that what was the, was said that the ukrainian forces and the russians was wondering, the dead more that there was no these dreams, sorry, that people are just dying for nothing. them uh, there was a report from uh,

simon schuster you know, which describes to the atmosphere around 0. this is very much that must be around, that will keep her in the, into the, during his last mom's in the imperial, transitory inches bunker. ah, so basically you, well the western media starts him to raise the wall. so the assumption is wrong. that the expected victory you know, uh from that sold counter offensive thats mystery will never come. and uh and then uh, we've had these depressed and not to go from prison by the a few days ago bobby assumed the washington post. but actually there, he was not. she did not write a single word about the cobra mice. she kept comparing the roster to come us, which is absurd and which is simply counter productive. and she kept saying that

the invest in money, and i'm sorry people, you know, the war in your brain and the in the water and gaza was i going to vote investment? yeah, i mean, this is just terrible in south coast, and it's only, it's only strengthens the result of reference between all these branch. so, you know, the basement of russian is, leads from that even be games. the patient base, you know, basically where they keep it, the whole dollar rolling games, you know, the why the end of the organization. so i've seen that one too bias, this least glo gunk ass cool. so they're just uh can basis. the rochester them. there is no other way we must we because we even lose where we're down. yeah. i mean, we will not be treated as human beings anymore. yeah. well, you know, larry, i don't think joe biden is knows the difference between a moss and homeless, but that's not the topic of the program. larry, you know what? one of the most important misunderstandings and false narratives that we have had

all about this complex. it's about territory, it's not about territory at all. we go back to the very beginning, the knots vacation, that means the regime in care of and it's in its satellite, figures must go. this is ultra nationalism must go. i mean, in the last new cycle we had an, an uh, ukranian official saying, you know, russian, you know, russian is, and the russians are not even in minority and they don't exist in ukraine. okay. that's very much like what we hear about the what, what the israelis have to say about palestinians. again, another topic, the 2nd one was demilitarization and that's what's happening. what is really remarkable, gentlemen, over the last couple of days or so we had officials in camps if there was never a counter offensive, what are you talking about? they do, it's still become, i mean this is, this is a kind of delusion that they're living in larry. i have never seen this kind of disconnect from reality. among people who are actually, you know,

they're educated and experience people. richard hawes and that good lord, he's, you know, he's been around for 40 years. going back to the 1980s. he was sort of a protege of henry kissinger and he writes with charles culture, i have a piece of foreign affairs that is so out of touch with i. on the one hand they admit what's going on, taking place on the ground in ukraine. the ukraine is losing that ukraine hasn't made progress. and yet they didn't turn around and pretend that ukraine still has a chance. it doesn't. if it's gone, it's over. it's a, it's like that scene from the movie dumb and dumber were jim carrie is asking this woman who's already rejected it and said, no other, you know, basically no way i'm going out with you and he goes. so there's still a chance. yeah. there's no chance. oh yeah. and yeah,

i really liked the dumb dumber because i think that really, yeah it's i, i always kind of look for those analogies, but it's perfect cuz i'm sorry, keep going larry. what? no, i just gonna say, in fact, the guy, some dumb and dumber are smarter than these policy makers that we see in the west. they continue, as you said, they focus on this notion that well rushed to los territory. completely ignoring the fact that when russia withdrew its tank and columns from north of kia on april 1st started on april 1st and began that withdrawal that was always presented in the west as russian to feed them. but we now know that that was a goodwill. good faith gesture by putting in order to say, okay, we're going to, we're serious about this piece negotiation and that the united states and nato, or the and so full, sab, a tours, and that process and destroying that piece process. nicholas, the problem is,

the overarching problem is that the west nato world is never recognized that russia has any legitimate security interest. yeah, i mean the, the, and this is why they are now starting to aim for a frozen conflict with, by, you know, drawing new lines on the map through ukraine, but not actually resolving the underlying conflict. and um, you know, they, they want to have another roll the dice a at a later later date. and so you know that with that willing to negotiate some sort of cease fire and, and some such as territorial settlement that the, like all these other frozen conflicts around the world. and of course once again, back to palestine, is that the most terrific one we're seeing right now?

um but that's uh, so sit. so yeah, when you look at the highest and cub chance, which is who would say what they the 2 of them have been saying all along. um, essentially this is yeah. that they, they are accepting. they are accepting the neo cons. yeah. oh, of a u. s. foreign policy, they know that victoria newland and antennae blinking well that nicholas i moved up here because we have to go to our break. would they the way they phrase it, they always probably will get to find that will give the russians an offer. and that's how they do it. it's hilarious. okay, gentlemen, i have to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on you can stay with our to the the,

the, the, the, every spring and summer. the melting optics move reveals a band of machinery, millions of rusty barrels, and the detritus left by human expansion into this most inaccessible of territories . yes, i used to move, searching, customize them both as a simple someone from your office at the bus to be joining as an issue. call them

to us from clean optic travels the highest island home to the biggest opponent station on the friends of joseph land archipelago. really asked me for i was my was or more you have to do should. so it means if you wouldn't be able to easily see, that's one way and then put some of the some will stay on the old stuff last time i feel like you are a mess almost a little bit. see me membership when you to, i've got to read on serial. no boys the middle of these chico, i mean sort of the optic pioneers main objective was to explore and comcast, these harsh lands. they had no time to think about waste management now and, and then i can see kids remain for centuries. that's my of my choice of so it's pretty at the question system of the multiple in your scope of the team, could about the deal to issue the

welcome back across. ok, we're all things are considered non beautiful about your mind. you were discussing the situation in ukraine, the, the ok, let's go back to the demon here in moscow as the, these ridiculous narratives. the person there, there was no counter offensive. it's a stalemate. no, it's not a snail made by a this good. when, when sees people say it, it just makes the rounds, it really is very irritating here. but, but, but demons. what are the, what are the problems is here is that why would rush should be in a rush because everybody says, the fulton is thinking this, the crime. one thing says they have no idea what they're thinking. i always find it appealing to who on the bbc? well, thing is thinking this, you know, i have no idea how they know these things. okay. what the russians aren't in a rush for good reasons. lima, us. yes. and uh, basically, uh,

the western media contradicts itself. on the long term, the rise that the roster joules of the war of attrition. that basically your brain is running all the resources unless we help. there is that sense of agency we need to help as soon as possible. otherwise, they're great in front of will collapse and all the other crimes they say, oh, it is not deliberate in what you promised to deliver solidly. they say that we'll do that. okay. some, some of the media say that which will have to hardy out because he has the next us before you just a few months ago and the all these years, they said their connections and roger made no sense. so there's a lot of contradiction in what we hear from the west, but the reality is indeed that the roster, even the lone rock is stronger and, and the there is absolutely no way you can deny this. also gray me,

it's all community and all that. and people don't boss all 3 media and all that. they will never, never, i agree to leave it be under the premium gauntlet, the ukranian troops, even the, our, our, uh, trying to enter the state. you will need real, get real resist does not the kind of the real resistance, that's what was pro, store us by the west, the media. and they've never realized that means that you bring in on it turned out was much stronger than the worst expected. but there was no real, a garage that was good to you, i'm meant which, which, which was promised by the west, the media. and indeed the in terms of the source of southern lead turned out that the world is not so much are determined by the west to the point him is you can validate for them is you can sell oil. not only do they your be union and not only it to japan who can sell it to india, you can start with the china, you know, uh,

basically country is over uh, brakes uh, gauge and more and more of importance, van d. b is already exceeding the ged gd, be over there. just uh, so uh there was a lot of things that the west did not include any concrete calculations when the approval gotcha. uh, into the small. and we can see right now that the what do you indeed have for an a and b, and the search on the which is not thinking of what fuel hill and mr. cop to expect him to do. you know, the max remaining time. so its about a discussion club which and try to steer to talk to them honestly, you know, i think he was very seen and don't want us to talk to them for our m o. and they knew, i don't support it, z, but that's what does a good them it didn't you notice? but at those con pads that we, you know, when people in these journalists and so called analysts stand up,

they're more interested in hearing their own voice in their own question. they never listen to the answer. okay. they're just there. that's way they're wired. larry, i what i'm looking at a bit more carefully than all of this rubbish that is constantly being written that makes less and less sense as beam is pointed out. as all 3 of you pointed out, is it a political collapse within care of? i mean it's, it's so interesting when you see the economist been time magazine or you know, other european pub, okay, they're kind of like picking winners. so if you notice that the lose may roll, know we're going to go to the landscape. i mean, this is kind of inside baseball stuff could be a lot of smoke, but it's kind of interesting larry, well, there's a little bit of psychological projection going on with the west in terms of protecting the collapse of put because what we're seeing in the united states politically is a great division and a lack of consensus that the, the one candidates, it seems to have the most support. donald trump is the ones. this is most of the

bill of 5 by the establishment. yep. and that the thing i, you know, i hope that the russian listeners and the russian people understand one thing about what's going on in the united states right down. there is no body in any position of authority or influence that can stand up and talk about. we need to re establish normal relations with russia. we need to recognize a lot of or uprooting is a genuine leader and somebody we're going to have to deal with any, any politicians that attempts that is immediately tard, as some cri, you know, popping to put some uh cell out to the communists. i mean, they're still there still so many americans who can said, can you believe that russia today is the soviet union of yesterday. yep, there absolutely, no. well, you know, you know, larry, if, if you say something like that eventually eventually you'll be called an anti

semite and a racist. okay. those are they close the default positions, okay. and no matter what you say, and the establishment disagrees with you, you're either an anti semite or a racist. okay? and of course why donald trump so much he must be both even though is a daughter converted to day is but you know, those are details here. you know, nicholas, one of the things that, you know, really bother me like from a responsible state craft and all of that. and you know, they were very well funded places. you know, when you just steal it all down, they all and they sent it in the 1st week when after the complex started, but they, they won't use the term exactly. but what they want is minutes. 3, we need minutes. 3, that's what they think they think they just do it always down to that. well that is well if minutes one and $2.00 didn't work, why would minutes? 3 work the nicholas. yeah, it's we we, we surely have done past that. i mean, the basis of minutes to which did bring a relative piece uh,

and an end to the worst fighting of 20142015 with the at least 14000 people killed. but yes, ukraine completely failed to fulfill the political aspects of that agreement. and in other words, to grant or economy to little hands and done yet. and so now you have to do a hand getting done yet. aah! are gone. they are independent to a part of russia. so, um, so yes, i don't think i don't think that is, are advisable. but again, going back to march 2020 to ukraine and russia were able to sit around to table in turkey and, and reach an agreement that they both could live with. and this is obviously what needs to happen again, but the needs to be

a realism on all sides. and as long as the west is, is effectively a, in forming the strategy for ukraine. and ukraine is acting as a puppet of nato and the united states. and then they, he, they are still not going to be allowed to negotiate a viable, stable agreement. and so the shift the needs to happen is the shift in the united states. and, you know, kind of as larry is suggesting that the bite in administrative sion, under the grid of, of the, of the neo cons, let the united states into a dead end all over the love since the 19 ninety's, the needs to be a return to it to serious diplomatic relations with every

kind of weapons price including china and russia so that we can actually solve the real problems that we're all facing in this world. yeah, but yeah, i agree of a 100 percent nicholas, but that would compromise a gemini, that would compromise the supremacy of nato. they're not going to lead either one go diem. a supremacy nato's a nato's rich around the world now adds out of area ambitions. this it would happen. what has to happen is a catastrophe when and i don't say that lively because a catastrophe means a lot of people die, diem a as well as to and i completely agree with me because i, i told what she does describe, but i spoke with the wrong ready to go, i knew would be the i d o d o, the more than the west needs to change because this is a ready to go. i told you which rejects compromise which rejects any kind of

diplomacy actually. well, i recently a drum and magazine called the drum and forwarded me to start another of the variable. is that on a diploma attempt to that, that was it, or what a diploma it should be because what she is doing and what by that is, do you know that quoted a respected leaders of why the account is dictators solve as the doing before they go with each sometimes you meet the often goal change. they reach the, you know, the, a test of the diplomacy, even the common decency you know that you don't insult your opponent, that you don't teach your opponent. you don't collect to see more her. this is the reason why i deal with them as always, with ties and, and the dolls use, you know, they, they almost never wear uniforms. because the way is to make

a distinction between the process of as a function. we're not talking during the diplomatic thoughts. people are not talking about like the old ones either teaching each other the result of the program. yeah. because the west is not. i mean, let me, let me finish off with larry here. it's kind of like the, the, the state department coming out. we're not going to judge in israel fits it. we're not going to be the judge jury and, and the executioner of israel's breaking international law is a mazda. oh, of course they are. okay. that's exactly what demons getting at. that's it. exactly . what do you mean? because they this inability to think differently. last 30 seconds. go ahead larry. the, the art of diplomacy is telling a mother that her child is ugly and she thing show at the end. so, being able to have that kind of scale. but what the united states has turned into our, our approach is either sanctions or war. we can't do both. well, that's something they have to wake up to. and then like i said,

i didn't want to say it lightly. but this the way, the, the, the way the train is leaving going on course the catastrophe is in pending. unfortunately for all of a gentleman, that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guest in tampa, miami, and here in moscow. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. and next time, remember the, the gym. and so just stay with the, with the window taking the picture. they were proud of the muscle. by the way, to go in your mouth settings menu infringing their know that he got audio with or i so it was who i see on google. okay. and with and then almost a week ago, and then we'll get to bundle the, the general said to us, just love the screen. but this,

this in the last has never been to the did you purchase a id please? yeah. genocides hard to time page size and how are you to do that? i missed a gift of it. yeah, that's, that's us a v as in and so this is a very bold decision by the gym and government to even stop because he is when the agreement was reached, gena, they did more divisions and small and gone both ways. here. these are a lot of those they are using to pay us what they are giving us just go to the provision congress and now we have not been support you've called so what has been happening here? it will open the ponder as box the next thing it will be them both then also have

to pay the the breaking news is real approves of for day truth with from us to secure a limited prisoner swap. but prime minister netanyahu say is the war is far from over the years. behold will not stop until we achieve complete victory and bring them all back. the south african parliament votes to suspend diplomatic relations with israel until it ends the work comic readings to bring lasting peace together and also a head this hour. the us is lucrative. fossil fuel deals with israel valve would include gases, gas reserves that says washington is expected to dispute the additional oil perhaps by the open.