and bring us more as more people, sorry it won't stone towards israel is becoming the hall, get $30000.00 members of her most powerful best each federal military force have gathered across the country for now. so support for homos, enforcing the event to your commander of these wanting to cover lucian, gar. score joey will say. so on the side as well as quote, self proclaimed victory is fate. i've got the will is not over yet. the don't proceed by the sound of their ease rose bombardment of garza, the existing political, turbulent social disarray and confusion is morally sol for design and split patients and citizens than the events grouping people and gaza. people and goals are being boomed, but despite that, they're steadfast and composed, while design is so furious and nervous. meanwhile, military officials anyway, i'll say the idea if it's trying to pose as the victor when in fact is covering up its failures in gaza and is tied in its own casualties. base,

a pressure is mounting on these right, the government from within its motors as the idea of has failed to even secure the release of the hostages. held by have us in the stage of is really from us more will defeat the us. it's western l as an israel in terms of international moral principles and joseph politics, psychological warfare and in the middle to receive it. and this issue will not be too far away. design is have just come to realize that their geographic distance from their collapse is only 8 to kilometers. and there are temporal distance, this 48 hours in the army days of the car flags. we heard a lot about the was foreign minister jose, and i mean i below here on traveling to different countries and that we don't to advance a ceasefire in what is viewed as a moderate gesture toward the conflict with sense, the violence costs to 40 of the day and the death toll kept the surgeon. we have seen military officials in iran stepping off to the podium. and there is no sign of that careful part of the language anymore. as to one now says as well is doing to

to feed in a more of a for sure. that's why why, how mosse say israel is of committed stupidity by entering goza. the spread out and does it know they're faced with the listing in fighters who cannot be seen. it's a war with ghost such a whirl and in the favor of those who can not be seen the israel as could not see them. but how must fight us can see and strike the israel is. and the story goes on like this, along with a change and there was rhetoric resistance for all self ramped up their operations against israel and the american bases. and that region, apart from launching several rockets and drones against his ro, humans chose a group has recently seized, the cargo ship that is, claims is really owned for the escalating, but still balling, vigil, spillover, which are on, has warned, off shopping to how many put a little bit that the immunization is unanimous and supporting the posting in cost best buy the internal differences in the government. the government explained effective role in the conflict. the red seat is a major treatment, which is bible for design is entity,

so young and explaining influential and strategic role in the conflict on the, on the claims where the forces and feel free to go. there 1st thing didn't resistance and the more they go ahead with the recursion, the more they will turn to the quad meyer, the regional composition seems to be already on holding everybody in military officials or in the coming days additional will joins accomplish usability. our with more on we're western nations appearing to nudge p up towards the negotiating table with russia is an end to the conflict. they're not approaching faster than many had anticipated cross talk debates that next the

the hello and welcome across the top where all things are considered on peter level. ukraine is on a losing streak. i just can't get a break. is counter offensive as an odor. catastrophe is reputation for gross mismanagement, and corruption is on display. there's zalinski fatigue and now the gods of war. the west gambled in last times to end this conflict. the process you create, i'm joined by my guess, larry johnson in tampa. he is a managing partner with burg associates, a former c i, a analyst, and us state department counterterrorism official in miami. we have nicholas davies . he is co author of war in ukraine, making sense of

a sense was conflict. and here in moscow we crossed the dimitri bobbitt. she is a political analyst and editor at, you know, it's me internet media project or a gentleman cross type roles. and if that means you can jump anytime you want. i'll let me go to the larry 1st here. i mean, things are going pretty bad for ukraine. i don't even know where to begin. i hinted towards it in my introduction. where would you begin? larry? when penny print skirt, the new newly appointed envoy by joe biden, to handle the ukrainian affairs, shows up and basically entails the lensky. uh so can you get along without any money from us? that's a clear sign that the things are not going well. they're already starting to appear videos on kilogram with pension errors in ukraine, yelling and being quite upset because they're not getting paid. so they're on, there's no single point of light and for ukraine,

and this is sort of ironic or it's, it's symbolic is uh, you know, that part of the world descends into winter and dark this. uh, ukraine is headed into great darkness. yeah. well, nicholas, you know, i don't like to use the phrase i told you so, but those of us that bit are serious about following this conflict. predicted this almost to the ti. i mean, this is the way it was going to work out. but the problem is, so many people have died in the process and ukraine as a functioning civil society is teetering right now. and you hear all of these kind of voices in the background. no one wants to be the 1st to say, well, something has to be done about it. you know, you can go through, you know, even the mainstream media and their whispers and, and rumors and new windows about, you know, what needs to be done because everyone knows it's an older catastrophe in failure. nicholas and yes, and the catastrophe is, is,

is really the direct result of the british and american decision in march and april. yep. up to $22.00, to kill the peace talks, kill the neutrality agreement. and while now we are hearing a lot of voices in the us and in the west, and who are ready to make territorial concessions. uh, what we're not hearing from uh, from leaders in the west is the recognition that a neutrality agreement is what is needed for ukraine. as zalinski said on march the 27th of last year, to as quickly as possible, restore peace in our native land. and that's of course what bar as johnson went to kiff and took him out of um,

so the needs to be the recognition from west and leaders that, that new try to let the agreement it or some form of neutrality for ukraine is key to last thing stable resolution of this conflict, and i don't see that happening yet. yeah. and nicholas to add onto it. let's remind our viewers. zelinski at the exact moment that you mentioned there. he was asking to give up what he did not even have. he didn't have crime in it and he didn't have the down bass now his loss so much more. so at that point he was, he was asked to give up something that he didn't have. that was not as hard as it seemed the most. let me read you some headlines here, top. so lensky aid questions, ukraine's survival. another one. ukraine must brace for the loss of us support. rene, this is coming out of to, i mean, these are not, we're

a no republican saying they're going to cut off the funding. i mean, these are the, this is the client states saying, you know, you let us down this path. now what demo? uh, what was yes. uh basically we've had the is the silver oh scans of us articles. uh there was, uh, the handle. uh you agree and all the forces was what was the, what is that, what was the was said that the uranium forces and the russians was wondering, the dead more that there was no victory inside that people are just dying for nothing. then uh, there was a report uh from uh, simon schuster you know, which describes to the atmosphere around 0 to ask yes, very much that must be around. that will keep you into the, during his last mom's in the imperial transfer rate inches bunker. ah, so basically you, well, the western media starts him to raise the law says that something is wrong that

they expect it to victory. you know from that. so hold counter offensive. that's mystery will never come. and the, and then the, we've had these depressed and not to go from prison by the a few days ago, bobby assumed the washington post by direct to there. he was not a c. c did not write a single word about compromise. she kept comparing russia to come us, which is absurd, and which is simply counter productive. and she kept saying that the invest in money, and i'm sorry, people, you know, the war in your brain and the, in the water. and guys, i was i gloating voting investment. yeah, i mean, this is just terrible in south coast and it's only, it's only strengthens the result over options between all these branch. so, you know, the basement of russian is, leads from that even be games the pregnancy base, you know,

basically well keep it that the whole dollar rolling gigs, you know, the why the end of the organization. so saying they want to finance this lease, woke up at school, so they're just uh can basis directions to them. there is no other way we must we because we even put rules where we're down. yeah. i mean we will not be treated as human beings anymore. yeah, well, you know, larry, i don't think joe biden is knows the difference between a moss and homeless, but that's not the topic of the program. larry, you know what? one of the most important misunderstandings and false narratives that we have had all about this conflict. it's about territory, it's not about territory at all. we go back to the very beginning, the not to vacation, that means the regime in care of and it's in its satellite figures must go. this is ultra nationalism must go. i mean, in the last new cycle we had an uh, you cleaning official saying, you know, russian, you know, russian is,

and russians are not even in minority and they don't exist in ukraine. okay. that's very much like what we hear about the what, what the israelis have to say about palestinians. again, another topic, the 2nd one was demilitarization and that's what's happening. what is really remarkable, gentlemen, over the last couple of days or so we had officials in camps, there was never a counter offensive. what are you talking about that you, it's still become, i mean, this is, this is a kind of delusion that they're living in larry. and i have never seen this kind of disconnect from reality. among people who are actually, you know, they're educated and experienced people. richard hoss. net good lord, he's, you know, he's been around for 40 years going back to the 1980s. he was sort of a protege of henry kissinger and he writes with charles captcha about a piece of foreign affairs that is so out of touch with i. on the one hand, they admit what's going on, taking place on the ground in ukraine,

that ukraine is losing, that ukraine hasn't made progress. and yet they didn't turn around and pretend that ukraine still has a chance. it doesn't. the it's gone is over. it's a, it's like that seen from the movie dumb and dumber where jim kerry is asking this woman who's already rejected it and said no other. yeah, basically no way i'm going out with you and he goes. so there's still a chance. yeah. there's no chance. oh yeah, and yeah, i really like the dumb dumb are because i think that really, yeah it's i, i always kind of look for those uh analogies, but it's perfect cuz i'm sorry, keep going larry. what? no, i just gonna say in fact, the guy, some dumb and dumber are smarter than these policy makers that we see in the west. they continue, as you said, they focus on this notion that all right. so last territory. completely ignoring

the fact that when russia withdrew its tank and columns from north of kia on april 1st started on april. first, we'll begin that withdrawal that was always presented in the west as russian to feed them. but we now know that that was a goodwill. good faith gesture by putting in order to say ok, we're good, we're serious about this piece negotiation and that the united states and nato were the and so full, sab, a tours in that process, and destroying that piece process. nicholas, the problem is that the overarching problem is, is that the west nato world is never recognized that russia has any legitimate security interest. yeah, i mean the, the, and this is why they are now starting to aim for a frozen conflict with, by, you know, drawing new lines on the maps are ukraine,

but not actually resolving the underlying conflict. yeah. um, you know, they, they want to have another roll the dice, uh at a later later date. uh and so you know that will it, that willing to negotiate some sort of cease fire and, and some such as territorial settlement that the, like all these other frozen conflicts around the world. and of course, once again, back to palestine, is that the most terrific one we're seeing right now? um, but that's uh, so sit so yeah, when you look at the highest and comp chan which is who would say what they, the 2 of them have been saying all along. essentially this is yeah. that they, they are accepting. they are accepting the neo cons. yeah. oh, of a u. s. foreign policy. they know that victoria newland,

and antennae blinking well that nicholas i moved up here because we have to go to our brand was a the way they phrase it. they always probably will get a find that will give the russians an offer, and that's how they do it. it's hilarious. okay, gentlemen, i have to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on you can stay with our to the the,

the welcome back across, ok, we're all things are considered. i'm funeral about your mind. you were discussing the situation in ukraine. the ok, let's go back to the demon here. in moscow as the, these ridiculous narratives, the person there, there was no counter offensive. it's a stalemate. no, it's not a snail made by a this good. when we cease people say it, it just makes the round. so it really is very irritating here. but, but, but demons, what are the, what are the problems is here is that, um, why would rush should be in a rush? because everybody says the putting this thinking this, the crime,

one thing says they have no idea what they're thinking. i always find it appealing to who on the bbc? well, thing is thinking this, you know, i have no idea how they know these things. okay. what the russians aren't in a rush for good reasons. demo us. yes. and uh, basically, uh, the western media contradicts itself. on the long term, the rise that the roster jones of the war of attrition, that basically ukraine is running all the resources unless we help there is that sense of urgency. we need to help as soon as possible. otherwise, they're great in problems, will collapse and all the other crimes they say, oh, you do, it is not deliberate. and what he promised to deliver solidly, they say the origin with okay, some, some of the media say that which and we'll have to hardy out because he has elections before you just a few months ago. and the all these years, they said their connections and roger made no sense. so there's

a lot of contradiction in what we hear from the west. uh, but the reality is indeed that the roster even the law is stronger and the there is absolutely no way you can deny this. and also gray me is on community and all that. and people don't boss all 3 media and all that. they will never, never agree to leave it be under the premium you got uh they, you bring in troops. if the error error uh, try to answer the standard you will need. real good, real resist does not the kind of the real resistance. that's what was pro as to us by the west, the media, and they've never realized, i mean, that you bring in on it turned out much stronger than the worst expected. but there was no real, a garage that was good to you. i'm meant which, which, which was promised by the west and media, and indeed the in terms of what his thoughts as solidly turned out that the world

is not so much are determined by the west to the point him is you can, of all the, for them is you can sell oil, not only do they your be union and not on the it you can jump and you can sell it to you. yeah. you can sell it to china. you know, uh basically country is over uh, brakes uh, gauge and more and more of importance van d b is already exceeding the g dvd be over there. just uh, so uh, there was a lot of things that the west did not include any concrete populations when they provoked russia into the small. and we can see right now that the would you indeed have for an a and b. and the certainly which is not thinking of what fiona hill and mr cop to expect him to do, you know the meds you've made them so it's about a discussion glove which and try to steer to talk to them honestly. you know,

i think he was very seen and don't want us to talk to them for all us. and while when they knew i don't support z, but that's not what does a good them it didn't you notice? but at those of con pads that we, you know, when people in these journalists and so called analysts spanned up, they're more interested in hearing their own voice in their own question. they never listen to the answer. okay. they're just there. that's way they're wired. larry, i, what i'm looking at a bit more carefully than all of this rubbish that is constantly being written that makes less and less sense as deem is pointed out. as all 3 of you pointed out, is it a political collapse within care of? i mean it's, it's so interesting when you see the economist been time magazine or you know, other european above. ok. they're kind of like picking winners. have you noticed that the lose name rone, are we getting the landscape? i mean, this is kind of inside baseball stuff. could be a lot of smoke, but it's kind of interesting, larry, as well. there's a little bit of psychological projection going on with the west in terms of

protecting the collapse of putting because what we're seeing in the united states politically is a great division. and a lack of consensus that the, the one candidate that seems to have the most support, donald trump, is the ones. this is most of the bill of 5 by the establishment. yep. and that the thing i, you know, i hope that the russian listeners and the russian people understand one thing about what's going on in the united states right down. there is no body in any position of authority or influence that can stand up and talk about. we need to re establish normal relations with russia. we need to recognize a lot of them are approved and is a genuine leader and somebody we're going to have to deal with any, any politicians that attempts that is immediately tard as some create you know, pop in to put some uh, sell out to the communists. i mean, they're still,

there's still so many americans who can so can you believe that russia today is the soviet union of yesterday? yep, there absolutely, no. well, you know, you know, larry, if, if you say something like that eventually eventually you'll be called an anti semite and a racist. okay. those are they close the default positions, okay. and no matter what you say, and the establishment disagrees with you, you're either an anti semite or a racist. okay? and of course, by donald trump so much he must be both even though is a daughter converted to days. but you know, those are details here. you know, nicholas, one of the things that, you know, really bother me like from a responsible state craft and all of that. and you know, they were very well funded places, you know, when you to still it all down, they all and they said it in the 1st week when after the complex started, but they, they won't use the term exactly. but what they want is minutes. 3, we need minutes, 3, that's what they think they, they just do it always down to that. well,

that is well if minutes one and 2 didn't work. why would minutes? 3 word that nicholas. yeah, it's we we, we surely have gone past that. i mean, the basis of minutes to which did bring a relative piece uh, and an end to the worst fighting of 20142015 with that at least 14000 people killed. but yes, ukraine completely failed to fulfill the political aspects of that agreement. and in other words, to grant or economy to little hands and don't yet. and so now you have to do what has been done yet. aah! are gone. they are independent to a part of russia. so, um, so yes, i don't think i don't think that is, are advisable. but again, going back to march 2020 to ukraine and russia were able to sit

around the table in turkey and, and reach an agreement that they both could live with. and this is obviously what needs to happen again, but the needs to be a realism on all sides. and as long as the west is, is effectively a, in forming the strategy for ukraine. and ukraine is acting as a puppet of nato and the united states. and then they heat, they are still not going to be allowed to negotiate a viable, stable agreement. and so the shift the needs to happen is the shift in the united states. i think, you know, kind of as larry is suggesting that the by the end administrative sion, under the grid of, of the, of the neil collins who had let the united states into

a dead end all over the world. since the 19 ninety's, the needs to be a returned to 2 serious diplomatic relations with every kind of a weapon spread, including china and russia so that we can actually solve the real problems that we're all facing in this world. yeah, but yeah, i agree of a 100 percent nicholas, but that would compromise a gemini, that wouldn't compromise the supremacy of nato. they're not going to lead either one go diem. a supremacy nato's a nato's rid around the world now adds out of area ambitions. this is what happens, what has to happen is a catastrophe when and i don't say that lively because a catastrophe means a lot of people die, diem a well, that's true. and i completely agree with nicholas i. i told what he does describe,

but i fall with a wrong ready to go i you would be the i d o d o the more than the west needs to change because this is a ready to go. i go with you which rejects compromise, which rejects any kind of diplomacy, actually, a recently a drama magazine called the drum and forwarded me to stop the variable. is that on a diploma attempt? so that, that was it, or what a diploma it should be because what she is doing and what by that is, do you know that quoted uh, respectively does a lot of accounting data solve as the doing before they negotiates. sometimes you meet the often, any goal change they breach the, you know, the test of the diplomacy, even the common decency you know that you don't insult your opponent,

that you don't teach your opponent. you don't collect to see my her. this is the reason why the problem is always wear ties and, and the dolls use, you know, they, they almost never wear uniforms because the email is to make a distinction between the process as a function. we're not talking during the people in my thoughts. people are not talking about i d o n g. they're not teaching each other. the result of the program . yeah, because the list is not. i mean, let me, let me finish off with larry here. it's kind of like the, the, the state department coming out. we're not going to judge in israel fits it. we're not going to be the judge jury and, and the execution or of, of, if israel is breaking international law is some us, oh, of course they are. okay. that's exactly what demons getting at. that's it. exactly, what do you mean? because a, this inability to think differently. last 30 seconds. go ahead larry. the, the art of diplomacy is telling a mother that her child is ugly and she thank sure at the end. so being able to

have that kind of scale. but what the united states has turned into our, our approach is either sanctions or war. we can't do both. well, that's something they have to wake up to. and the guy said, i didn't want to say it lightly. but this the way, the, the, the way the train is leaving going on course the catastrophe is in pending. unfortunately for all of these gentlemen, that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guest in tampa, miami, and here in moscow. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c a next time. remember prospect the, [000:00:00;00]

the, the israel approves a full day 1st with her last to secure a limited present as swaps. apartment is suggesting, yahoo stays the will, is off from the heat, will not stop until we achieve complete victory and bring them all back to the south african parliament votes to suspend diplomatic relations with israel until it ends the will of greece to bring last and peace to concept also this now in energy masses to us to ice lucrative fossil fuel deals with it as well, that would include a gas reserves found in horses. neg garza thoughts as washington is expected to