it's rebecca. oh, she is an author and managing editor of the palestine chronicle. all right, cross side girls in effect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate, let's go to rome 1st. remember this, what i want to make here a program is to talk about messaging and context. i'm not looking through. he looked at who's right or wrong here, but how the public is understanding the conflict that is going on in gaza. and it seems to me that on the one side, there's a lot of people really smart people that know the history of this conflict inside, out and backwards. it's one of the most studied conflicts in history. but the text opposed to it. there's a hell of a lot of emotion and it's a very toxic mixture your thoughts? it's absolutely true. i have to say that there are 2 levels to layers. in this debate on one side, we have the intention, the deliberate intention of putting a rising discussion and the scenario to be in a very silly way. on one side,

we have the intention by east well by the united states by west some countries to say that there is a party in this conflict, the dispute e mail and the party in this conflict that is pure goods. and it's the theme of the class of civilization that we have been listening to and experiencing throughout. uh, you know, uh at least at least the last 2 decades. uh, so these narratives wanted to be applied exactly to what was happening in palestine and as well. but the have to say that may be like, never before i have seen a level of awareness. i'm of the general population. yep. completely different. like people seem to know that the, you know, the discussion can not be reduced to such a cd. put a ration that, you know, there are some complex to this and that we have to go deeper into,

on the nice the context. the west bridge says in the few some narrative at that infuriated east. well, for example, the when the united nations secretary general, i'm talking with tara said that the october 7 sucks, did not happen in a vacuum. it was kind of a, you know, a very simple and very logical conclusion. but still, he's what was infuriated by thought because it was breaking the narrative, the extremely put a rice and narrative that he's functional to the genocide and to the reaction the, you know, competing disproportionate reaction and to what we are seeing and which i think awesome. so it's, um, yeah, i'm sorry, keep going there. so i'm sorry, go ahead. keep going. i think that, you know, the most important reading that we are experiencing added to you putting you to a level is also, and most people are using in the information room. so it is far more difficult now

to impose and narrative from above and the public is far more reactive to a different sources of information. so some media and alternative media. so it's not so easy a to have a port arrived discussing the all the more so all the more so a sense because of technology. um that is the advanced immensely over the last few years. we're actually, and this is what kind of shocks my conscience all the time is that we can watch this live on television. so when an apartment block blows up, you know, a lot of people just died. you're watching it in real time. you're watching this catastrophe on folds and if you want for myself, i feel powerless alone. one of the things that i find really interesting kind of dump tailing. what we heard for romano is that, you know, we had us state department officials that again create this false dichotomy. this

falls by an area of pure evil. but when they ask, you know, um, are you sure, are you sure that the israel isn't committing more crimes? well, they may skip it. you know, they just say, well, you know, we know that they're doing their best, you know, as someone is pointed out to me or they're doing surgical strikes. but if they're doing surgical strikes, who is the doctor, doctor? death. okay. but then, you know, there is no, you know, but come on, selection is pure evil, they commit war crimes all of the time. again, you know, the public's watch this and they say that's just the double standard alone in new york. well we have, we have to look at the picture. i'm from a number of fine guns actually is there's no question if you just see what you see . and what for you here, that is b is right here where my television is, uh, disproportionate. my day bomb is system building. they should know that sibling will get killed. on the other hand, they are excusing or their expansion is that

a mass is in video within this video community. and there's not much we can do. they're doing everything we can to prevent. so they had casualties. but that is the nature of this terrible work. but i think going back to what's in much earlier mation is that, you know, the most people simply do not know really the bad crowd. what actually happens. you can go back to 1948. yeah. but yeah, there's a lot of them i can if i can interrupt, but do you think that's intentional but they don't know the history. sorry to interrupt. go ahead. when i think i think many of them, as was mentioned earlier, you know, they were linked to the public narrative. and these are, it is probably on the idea of the policy. you have the on there to where we have to understand where this came from. and that is really that there are 2 points here. you have to go back all the way to impact 219 forget what you have created this to have 2 people have claim to the same, right?

that's a, that's a fact and remains to this very day. true. it's the same for the same d, my boss have the same same. granted the same with that on that date is built into the there's a psychological destination photocopy which people say you do not. okay? that is, you cannot ship you sick today and decide, okay, this is that's, i agree on the visa card with these kind of terms. you have to address the history, historical perspective of the conflict itself. and this is where these menus tell me quite as people are simply doing. let's see. there is a psychological empowerment they need to be. the dress is really so example of doing not accept the fact they have proceed precipitated when they are the catastrophe with the policy and quote and not the the, the say is on the other, say the, this is their perpetual and maybe we can not trust them and therefore, we cannot have to assist in the policy we have now that is the occupation in the west bank, the seizure of the blockade of our guys that's by so the only way we can keep the

student that day that it is a problem. the question is, how do you unravel those? yep. and this isn't a my argument. so is being, you know, is there is no more powerful party here. is there a lot to take more initiative is, or i can assist in occupation in depth energy. and what happened, and i know some of our 7 is not in vacuum. this is exactly happening because going back to the history of what is a quarter of what oppression and their waste my business. not nothing in your i in october for i was very clear, not profit, but i said it is really down. government does not change its policy in the west bank. in particular, we are going to see another explosion. that's why i'm making the 2nd into 5 that looks back in regards to this exactly what happened. i myco commission was based on what i being watching. i see a white sticker based on the westbank. and then the,

like you said, there's not a big question of fact are wrong, but this is the fact this, it was about a student are experiencing day in and out the same thing for 17 years. luckett, whether you can justify it or not, as far as the publishing and the tests are concerned, they feel they are in prison. and so is very attentive to maintain the status quote, but they should have known. this is not sustainable. and that is the result is what be out to you today. funding was yours. was this treasure in romano. one of the interesting things kind of reflecting on what you said earlier is that it, i've been quite um, it's a, it gives me a joy and happiness. the more and more people come come to the conclusion to the palestinians actually do have a narrative. they do have a history, they do have a legacy, and that is something i have to say. i was really surprised by, particularly by the younger generation in the western world,

in europe and in the united states. and so after this onslaught, to be a very for a forceful narrative, i remember being brought in growing up. i remember this narrative very clearly. and it somehow with that the foundations of that narrative had been shaken to its core . go ahead. yes. and what is really encouraging in gifts, thoughts, there is not only in narrative was linked to humanitarian reasons, of course, the strength of what we see the horror of what we are witnessing these days is so strong that you know what the tools emotions give is clear but in the same time, people seem to be aware that this is not just a humanitarian issue, because yes, it's true. there are 2 people who have the same claim. the claim on the same land abuse is true, but we have a pull nicer and a corner nice. and what i am, you know, seeing these days is that the public seems aware of these dynamic. precisely,

that's the risk of an ideology, the scientist ideology, which inspired as well, which steve, which is a set of the colonial ideology. so the ultimate goal is to remove all the, any elation of the native population of the policy and population. and people seem very aware of this and to have to say that these awareness have to be credited to many policy and intellectuals that you know never to be bought throughout the years and tried to push their point of view their narrative. and now it is curious, you know what, that is, what has long denied the neck box to the point that from a legal point of view, it easily does not allow to mention that there was a knack box. this is true the what it is denial, but in the meantime we fee is right. it will be sold is really ministers, claiming the neck by saying we want to do

a 2nd neck above. we want the got the neck about to roll out. so, you know, the contradictions of bead colonial zion is experiencing, i think they are emerging in a very strong way and is so difficult for them to deny them from an intellectual and problem to good points. as a reminder, before we go to the break and like a law, allows it to respond to what you just said, go ahead and do your yes. i think i think the uses, the purpose of design is moment for us to evaluate the indigenous population. it's going to file because if you stay here, designers to ideology, you'll find it wasn't very clear i've been going on here till then. so well, i realize the fact that we are investing in that did use would have to go exist for that. but i've seen it this one is it really, there may have been 90, but the time thinking that co exist as was entirely possible. but what happened is that over the years, there is a huge develop, the insatiable,

less for more and more territory. going back to the people to occur. no profit. i see that this thing belongs to the us. i visit a lot of, oh, i'm sorry, i have to jump in here. we're going to go to a hard break. and after that hard break will continue our discussion on palestine state without the executive. and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show . seriously. why watch something that's so different. several opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please, or do you have the state department to see i a weapons bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. i changed and whatever you do. don't want marshall state main street because i'm probably

going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the wayne thing. the little to no. one, no, no, no, no, no, not. for to most of the location of the unit 731 was a unique organization in the history of the world. what they were trying to do was to simply do nothing short and build the most powerful and most deadly biological weapons program that the world had every now through you know, to production with it. so it gives you or show the great

deal to the new. so new the, you keep a new month, uh, mazda thought, dismissed noon to one of our, from the sale of that. i don't understand. i've wished enough about doing so need, i know he gave him some more promotion to try to put on with this kind of them. why the, i don't know a party bill. you cannot push the couch. so for those people to go to 00, want this on this to she my a new on it on site in sentiment 7 won't get to the yo yo, now. i'm gonna put them out there to give us the the,

the welcome back across stock. we're all things considered. i'm pete a little bell to mind you were discussing palestine. the okay, i want to go back to a lot of new york i unfortunately we had to interrupt you to go to a break, but i'd like you to continue please. so, so what i'm saying then, you know, over the years they say it is a particular that extreme is the right of center and develop this insatiable bass, going back to try to recover the entire line from the budget to the right. and i took his yoga and look at this current as a government is basically is being very open about that, that intent to next, the entire waste bank, if they only could so. so what do we have today? in my view, what's happening in october center. as a matter of fact, this is

a major breakdown and the relationship between the 2 side, where they also offer a ranking. so that is we can no longer go back to the status quo. anti at this point is awakened to a good to fact that they promised gene and a problem is that they have. yeah, but uh, but the problem is i agree with you. the status quo is untenable, but there are 2 different directions. one direction is to go back to what used to be called the 2 states as a solution which seems almost impossible or an isolation of the palestinian people . that's the way the trajectories are played out here. let me go back to romano in rome. i mean, i personally think as an american, this entire zine, this project wouldn't have gotten to the point where it is now without american health. i mean, joe biden could have said a ceasefire and you know what? most likely it would have happened. but the kid odor those words. okay. and that

makes him complicit. go ahead, enroll. oh, i see there is being a complete city and even an encouragement to some extent when i instantly blink. and when i, in the 1st vivid after over 7 a few hours, she was actually openly encouraging genocide. and even worse than media their marriage and their approach. they were not the only companies that were basically encouraging the genocide of a population. we celebrated works that are open, lead calling for genocide. now we kind of jack that there was the intention, i honestly, i insist on the fact that i do not recognize that contention since the very start of the vendors project because you know, the telemundo was there and the me of the land with new people for people with no land a company to design this project seems that our stuff for to all the decades. we have seen these completely deep and we have seen the exceptionally thing so easy to

out. not only can open the. ringback for genocide, we several nuances can we say that we never knew. and so sometimes it was more totally read the, you know, it, me, a publishing of we're told to read more or less. but at the end, the ultimate board was there, and these will was never held accountable despite the fact that ease works is the main violator of un resolutions and of all the norms of international law that the west it says set up. so uh, yeah, everybody recognized that is what was violating international, but these are, it has never been held accountable. and we have seen that the united states keep to continue to protect as well, with their visual power, for example, that the united nations, they have blocked at any attempts, a resolution in the 1st phases of these, of these lead to genocide, the war on god though the engine at the end they agreed on these to many term incidences. that's where it clearly you know, that's

a way to be to find and meet or wrong in a situation that has no major ground. because here we are witnessing the genocide of 2300000 people in a very small piece of land. so there's really no me to ground. we have to take a stance and the style. i suppose, that's why i got a long this. go ahead, jump in, go ahead. that's apparently right. i think i think it's a consistent use of the word genocide. and then the night ration is simply going to file. let me just remind you a couple of things there. whereas i actually do a tbd as opposed to have the right to establish this jacob. there are, i do believe still to this day is it to, is there a solution? is the only solution because they're both exist. i'm neither side couldn't get 3. the fit simply is there, i cannot imagine that the policy you use north 100 about a student. and i have that the say. i just also want to remind the audience that publish student decided is using of course

a that the narrative that seem is narrative coming from some policies. and it seems like how much does that cost damage? you have to adjust it by itself because ition in terms of the occupation in terms of the block it. but we also have the publishing and have also most many, many opportunities that these, that fact so that you can go back to 47. they refused to accept the partition that you come back to 1967. when goes, i mean invited to come to the table. that is, and then there are 2 as after they are, is there a solution to particular west passive united nation and 1973. i knew or said that, but they weren't english and weathers are invited the 1st to to, to join the prices and make peace. whether it's that they did not did not happen in 2000 again at the game did major effort. they went back to find the step in your body, shut alone. oh, but i'm going, i'm trying. but it could make like say a critic would say, even with or without those the apply to the palestinians in the west bank because

only gotten worse. plight of the palestinians and gods is only gotten worse. i mean, i mean i, i see your point and i, i know this narrative here, but romano, what is the results for the, for, for the level. but let me just all right, uh, go ahead please. let me just say one point because what i'm saying is if i was doing it did use opportunities to reach undergrad, but that does not the fact that they lost opportunity and does not that you can use . so they are right of establishing. but you're making that are separate between you. when you say me, let me get all that you could make the argument. and now this is kind of fanciful here, but these really is called it's forrest a tuesday. and so the power of attorney and forced them to have their own states, they could have done that as well. and i think that it'd be a lot more piece. okay. but you know, there's missed opportunity narrative. i've come across it a lot, but i look at results from on the go ahead and room. well, i honestly, the sign is approach to that to the so the fact that there are good policy

now we're able to talk and discuss and better policy. is that for me, single protective, you know, a monster. i do get the a told that at least say that we, i've heard it's to all the years. fortunately, i repeat the public is even beginning to reject these narrative that is completely, you know, biased towards $11.00 side. because while we were having a fee and negotiations and fig piece processes and you know, it was very convenient for us in the west to speak about the 2 state solution. the truth is that on the ground at the ministry occupation was more and more stuff. ok, dig a d a port federal the settlement expansion was, you know, unbearable basically the talks about an eviction about open the genocide, the a talk on who decides the harassment of probably seen in women of palestine and

children. a double standard original voltage side. and i am not see this uh, you know, well known uh, organizations, human rights organizations have called it an upper type regina. so speaking about the missed opportunity, it is honestly, i find you treated offensive to for a people that is a color nice people and oppress people, an occupied people and the have, the palestinians have indeed the right to defend themselves according to international rule. and one last thing, i'm not speaking about the genocide lightly here. i speaking about genocide because i think the international law gives me the chance to speak about it. because i think there are several entities that speak about the genocide in the city. and the book which risk of genocide has been, uh, you know, uh do you know, well, we're ramada. you're absolutely right. i mean, up until like 15 seconds ago using that term you,

you should have some gravitas because the us would say the week, or is there a separate genocide. they're not of ukrainians or suffered a jet as i know they're not. and then when it's being asked to be us administration, that they get really nervous and they change the topic. okay, alone that what we're but we're rapidly running out of time. i want to ask you, i want to ask you a question. you know, it is real, is not winning the information more here. the they, they 50 be headed baby story was a flop of the tunnels under, i'll see for that. looks like a block to or, i mean it's just sloppiness or air against. go ahead and now i don't think it's either cyber, this arrogance is very still continue. believe absolutely. there is a massive network of tunnels and the not the about and that's and they are still looking for that. but let me just be very, very clear, but it's a one thing. i am actually here to the been disturbed for years extremely,

it goes out there. but when they say i have been doing of the west back to me as this never, it'd be next up to never. and i have gotten extensively on that subject. but again, when we speak about genocide, united, united lives, and when you take that narrative, that's why you're going to create another account another. this is make the situation even worse when you effect jane or sad. it really did not happen. i agree that these are a retaliation in guys that was, is disproportionate, but we have now to take it from here. why do we go from here? because we can ginger this morning is narrative between that to say we are not going to go anywhere. they know that 75 years of occupants that you're not happy, that's what i'm saying. when you have this kind of bring it down, we have to consider the historical perspective as well. so that we look at the reality today and begin to think in terms of the solution. because accusation keeping acquisition one or above between the 2 set is that down to 5?

yeah, the, let me, let me, let me, let me set it up here. and then i'll tell you is just a, you know, they did a genocide convention, talks a lot about intentionality. well, we have a government in israel that they're sending it to you in black and white white the mount career, you know, and a push them up. i mean, we can go on and on about what government officials are saying, and when i think that's why the discussion of genocide is being brought up. because intentionality is cor, go ahead and roam, run almost out of time. just running more there by that you know, the current is a government. my view is the worst government ever. great. i agree with the week. i want to give the last 30 seconds to our guest and brother. go ahead. yes, i don't find it fair to don't say, you know, the trauma of palestinians, since the knacker buttoned to out generation simply say, oh do you do that to be says we should leave it alone? no, i don't think the, the, what we should do about this thing as have all the right to ask for justice to

demand for justice before any solution. because death trauma is there. and the fact that we deny, because we can denied doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. we have seen that in other experiences we are not allowed. and rightly so, to deny the trauma, we shouldn't do it for publishing and ballasting if need to get to just if, before we start talking about solutions. because otherwise i do not think that any piece process or any pos towards peace can be successful, right? that's all the time with output. i'm sorry, we brought out of time, fascinating discussion and in a, in quite informative, i must say, i want to take my get to new york engine room. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here in our see and see you next time. and remember, prospect rules the,

the russian states never as tight as i'm one of the most sense community best most i'll send, send the, send the system to progress be the one else calls question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin mission the state on the russians to day and split the ortiz full neck, keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube tv services. for what question did you say from stephen twist, which is the

1941 with the nazis health situation? ultra nationalists, the you astonishes the claim, the independent state of croatia. shortly off, the seizing power. they built the scene of us concentration camp a place associated with the worst atrocities committed in yugoslavia during world war 2. use dash is used to come system to isolate and exterminate subs, roma, jews, and other non catholic minorities, and political opponents of the fascist regime. conditions in the scene of us come when the gods tortured to arise and the prisoners they send them the constitution camps. so most of them died. it was incredible genocide. the the,

the, instead of the size of the 20th floor house, it is free blank. i must have reese is well and are all the way to hospitals in country capacity and detainees. the part of the swamp with is well, have been released from the west side and romano. i'm the displaced by us that is flying through his end to the lenovo gauze about the idea of gloves they were walking. and among the if the trees didn't guarantee a safe passage for us from southern to northern causes to meet my family and check on my house, then this truth is useless. the .