the imagery of the says florida doesn't want that text them, but the notes up under that the i'm option or can see it welcome back to going underground. broadcasting all around the world from do by way will bleed is attaching down to the you in climate change conference starting this as a comp 28 because i mean it's in a legend u k. u, as you nation backed genocide in the region, leaving hundreds of thousands hungry to night in gauze. if today we have a world full of surplus food and people are still having with tens of millions in the usa for us to rely on federal aid to eat. what happens when climate change

exponentially increases? wildfires, floods and droughts all around the world with me in washington dc is the us government's will. i'm a chief economist at the department of agriculture and as senior research fellow at the international food policy research institute. dr. joseph clover. thank you so much for coming on. so varied figures but around but maybe 830000000. they're going to go hungry to night. more and more than enough food for everyone in the world to eat. what would you have done that the reason food for them in rome, if you are still the u. s. department of agriculture is chief economist what you've sort of shows you the yeah, i don't. i think these problems are beyond the chief economist, somebody i, you have to remember that something like 60 percent of the world's hunger is people are and there is where there's conflict right now. and so that's, that's a very difficult thing. you're talking about much, much bigger problem and their sense of war is going on. you know, we've see this all refugees, all sorts of personal calamities that are again,

hunger is part of that. i mean, daily. it is so, but you, if you're there, the department of agriculture for 30 years, i'll be, is the, the countries that are listed by your institute and, and others has the risk of a wide spread, but universal family and they're all on the military attack or military intervention from the united states. i mean, what do you think is the at the agriculture department? i mean, if we can go through the, i guess i don't ever, i don't take your point. i what countries in particular, you're talking about hunger ciriani tube. your have chemist on human somalia, syria, gaza, i suppose. yeah, i, i, i wouldn't necessarily point the finger at us on that, but uh if that's your opinion, that's fine. but really i, i'm asking you, what do you think about the connection between food and that violence, the weapons trade? oh yeah, no question. absolutely, i'm, i think, as again,

as i said, it is one of the major causes of hunger because, you know, when you look at hunger is really boils out to availability on the one hand in affordability on the other. and unfortunately, poverty and hunger are go hand in hand, best or tragic a part of all this but, but the bigger problem in some areas is just availability, particular income areas where there's conflict and, and that's what we've seen is there's big a search over the last 10 years in the number of hungry people, and there's been an areas like this a, how are the countries that you mentioned and again, is, is totally exacerbated by war. and yet the recent headlines have sent it on say the black sea green initiative, or the indian uh, number smart the rice export regime is judy by the indian government. so

i'm going to be increasing before these 2 uh, issues raise their head. sure, sure. but, but prices play a big role here, and when you have actions taken by governments, the exacerbate food supplies are, you know, jeopardize food supplies that has an impact on, on, on, on prices. and because of that, it makes um, it seems like rice and wheat and other things most affordable for those. what do you, you know, import those products. you are reading of the black sea green initiative because we had someone from the oakland institute who told us that the next to the next to no impact on poor country is just 3 percent of the ukraine food went to poor countries . it was a more of a propaganda weapon in this war in, in ukraine then act. oh no i, i guess i think that's totally false. i mean that's like this. yeah. well, you can, it's a supply 10 percent of that was we something like 13 percent of the world's current before the war. that's been um, you know,

unfortunately they're now producing 35 percent less than what they were doing play more as a result of more. and that's less we in the world market that's less corner of the world market. you know, in terms of where we went in one says it's almost a material because what those supplies mean for the rest of the world is lower prices and lower prices are felt by every country in the world. so yes, there, there was some we did go to africa through the world food program. a lot of, uh uh, we went to north africa and in the middle east, you know, traditional buyers of u claim we, but right now there's almost nothing coming out of the black seas. and their production is it's, uh, yeah, it's been reduced by 3040 percent. so i mean that's, that's the reality of the war. and you might argue that that's not, it doesn't have an impact, but i would argue longer term, it has a certainly has an impact. because if there is another shortage somewhere else in

the world, you'll see prices jump again a big time. but the un themselves only said 3 percent went to those countries and prices of being more historically low as to why. but what, what do you think the, what do you think the market for you claim wait was before the war in sub saharan africa? hazard a guess? i mean, it was, it was a tell, it is not one of their big is one of their big markets. you know, the really about cents. but then why was it sold to us is, is about all about oil supplies is all about way supplies and supplies are, when do we have less suppliers on way? marcus, you have higher prices and that's why you have problems in, you know, with poor countries. when there is an affordability issue in terms of buying grand . yeah, but clearly tony, blinking at the state department wasn't saying that he was saying, ukraine is a fundamental part of subs are and africans dependence on food. and this is what

we're hearing from nato capitals. well i, again, you're talking about higher prices, you know, a, we're in the end today which will be by the actual flight exports from ukraine. yeah. to how the in the i'm just saying that the ukraine, a switch shipped, they're very important for embodies north africa. they shift a lot of, we, in the past to asian markets, they, they ship some of the sub saharan africa. and what we saw last year is the subs her . now i think i had last week, you know, they were down about 11 percent and some of that was due the fact that less weight was coming out of the black sea and, and the fact that we prices were so high in the 1st half of the year yeah, i mean we have it for manual is that it was actually something benefiting big agri business. how difficult is it being a senior research fellow at the international food policy research institute because you're funded by moscow funded by washington. you're funded by k b. m g,

which is lucky martin consult from the company. i mean that deals with raphael and how, how does it is that you'd like us remain independent when we have a weaponized at the moment and research on how food systems work is so weaponized. yeah, i think you'll, i think you'll find and talking to people, but the general impression of the work that my colleagues do is very a jet objective. the very i have your right. i've been funded by over my crew a short time there. i've been funded by a lot of different countries, a little bit from the us, but mostly from europe, from other other countries around the world. and essentially to look at issues like trade to look at food security issues and to look at, at the market analysis, which was my former job was tracking markets around the world uh at the department

of agriculture. you do take the one of the most fundamental reasons for global hunger is how pressure global south countries are to privatize the land and inevitably creates all the gar power that the ends up with their food being exported. instead of being fed to that populations, you know, i don't, i don't think that's an issue. i think improving productivity around the world is, is very important. and that's, you know, that's true in the course. countries of sub saharan africa is true. it's true in the big export and countries like australia or europe or the us. um, we have a serious challenge or the next several years to need a growing population and a population that is um, you know, uh, facing climate change and other things that, that are really important. and that's going to mean, you know,

countries around the world need to improve productivity. yeah, we heard from progressive under the shiva on this uh, program. people can watch our interview with their own. rumbles saying actually productivity was much higher before the incoming huge crop companies. they destroyed productivity. i understand your institute is also funded by crop life international, which is who represents be. so i would be like one is i don't know what i, i don't know what crop lice if there's much funding that comes from them. most of the funding comes from there on your website as a major funded govern metal. and so you can get into the, i'm the productivity of crow ups you believe is helped by these big multi nationals that clearly have an interest in making those countries dependent on i think there's a as well we also support our are other centers like center that that have public research for on, on week varieties that have been shipped to all around the world. are you there?

yes, there are private developers for things like mays and story b, as in particular. but we've seen enormous productivity gains. i don't understand the point of, of, you know, you would refer to this other study because that certainly is contrary to anything that we have. and that we've, we've shown, i mean when you are at the department of agriculture is during that period. the china broad, $800000000.00 out of poverty, clearly with the will be at some small scale farming, but under a large democratic controls right up to be jing tonight, $40000000.00 in the united states will starve without federal aid. annual food snap program does not show a stock contrast about food security. how did that happen? it's is, unfortunately, there weren't changes in government or in the, in the social safety net in the ninety's that took away a lot of the income support, replaced it with

a whole suite of programs. and we right now we have a food stamp program that is roughly a $142000000000.00 annually is provide supplemental nutrition assistance to families in need. and the projections are over the next 10 years. if those will run those outlays. we'll run around a $120000000000.00 a year. yeah. but oh, you mentioned aid and federal aid, the changes in the ninety's. but i mean, i mean obviously the point is not to be building out a to people is a, it's self sufficiency. no, absolutely. no, no, no, absolutely. i mean this is, these are big structural issues that the us has done poorly. i would, i would argue, i mean we just, we have persistent part poverty, particularly in rural areas, are in urban areas, but also in rural areas as well. and you have families that have been generations in poverty, and those are not things to be proud of. i would agree. and did you see it coming

when you were in the development of agriculture? because as i say, a different, you can always, there's this new like, this isn't new if i were to go, if i were to go back to 1998, when we, when, when i was at the department of air holding, we initiated the survey. we had 12 percent of families in prison, food and secure households, you know, is down marginally suspense. so your point of making very little progress. i think, yes that's, that's certainly a problem. but this is something that the, the us as are certainly we've been tracking or the us department of agriculture has been tracking for many years now. hey, lisa is getting better at dr. joseph over. i'll stop you. the more from the us government's moment chief economist at the department of agriculture, in that senior research fellow at the international food policy research institute . after this break, the

problem with getting ready to go was the correct time. but i was calling to check to see to see, oh see, ya need them to see. she must see washing to be in the, in the most, i'm the you have to put us on that i can is on data lee and institution developed dependent on many countries. they have 1300000000 roman catholics around the world

. and as they say in america, follow the money that it can adjust most of its money from pro western countries. a lot of the nato countries, spain, italy, england, germany, as well as mexico and the united states. so it is dependent on the fact that people sort of come on. let's get congrats on. you've got to have to deal with rich new. i mean the welcome back to going on the garden. i'm still here with the senior research fellow at the international food policy research institute, dr. joseph glover for joseph. so we were talking about the systems of, of, of food and the over the in the united states. what about the, what's really being in the news lately, which is about this india numbers monte rice, ben. why?

what is your understanding of why and is doing it in any way as well? hey, you have to look at this in perspective. india has their rice production has, has increased substantially over the last 15 years back and in the early, 2, thousands, you know, they were probably about 5 percent of the world market. they're now 40 percent of world exports come from india. they've been very important and for a number of countries are now a race supplier for many, many countries, both in asia, but also in africa, sub saharan africa, west africa. i'm a yeah. so the, the, the, the, at least the way the, the indian government has articulated the band is that there they have concern about food insulation. and food prices or rice prices have been high in india and like they have been, are all around the world. and they have more above it, even the whole of services are in africa put together in india. they have poverty.

yes, that's true. they also have more rights to they have a surplus rice in their, their, their country. they have plenty of rice to feed their population. that's not an issue. i think um, uh, but the more the government is rice isn't the only thing. they have a ban on engines. they have a ban on a, they've had a ban on wheat last year. so this is all, you know, it's no surprise the government is up for re election or they'll stand for general elections and next year they want to keep good prices. uh, you know, to try to keep a lid on insulation whites. a lot of countries i might, yeah, i mean, inflation has been food inflation and it has been, you know, in the high double digits for many countries around the world, including western economies, including the us, including, you know, it doesn't matter. we're actually on that subject. why is, why is food inflation so much higher in western europe that in the global south

countries have well, one reason for like very good. yeah. yeah. there's a good reason for that. is that, you know, this is this, i think i'll use a fact, a lot of people don't appreciate is the fact that most the costs of retail food comes after it leaves the farm. so if you look at the price of bread, the week in that brand is only about 5 percent of the value. so all these other costs afterwards, things like labor costs, things like energy costs, you know, to transform the middle of the wheat into flower, to press on that flower and the bread to get that on grocery shelves. all that costs money. and those are been things that wage rates have been up and a lot of western economies, we've seen very, very high energy costs. so that is across the board is, you know, is the oil, it's electricity is other things. all these things have added to processing costs and costs a big increase in um, retail food. so there's more likely to be the loss of the north stream pipeline.

why that in mainstream media. so gold, the, they always talking about food supply and farm supply. when it comes to hi, i agree, are you you raised? great, great point. i have to raise the press interviews. people have done with me. i always point out to him that most of the costs come after the, the farm and, and some of those. if you look at the retail price in, in uh, a more developed developing economy that those, those largest typically are less that is there, there may be less processed or thanks, but it is, is still true. there are 2, they are getting, for example, getting green in from the port to inland markets that all costs money. and that's where we see big inflation for a lot of countries plus the exchange rate. um, you know, commodities are old denominated in dollars typically. so if you put those in local

currencies, looking at egypt, for example, we prices in egypt or in addiction pounds, you know, or at, i was very continued to be at very, very high levels. whereas world prices are generally come down to being below right now roll pre war levels. so clearly until the dollar eyes ation, the dollar is a refuge in that case. but these drum listen to it. it's a, is it a question of the fact that the food policy is weaponized, you must have come across that if the department of agriculture, how food policy can be weaponized in how, whether it be protectionism or whether it be as part of military intervention. i mean, we only have to look at sanctions, regimes in both by the united states and countries. and so the salvation iraq, obviously when you were at the department of agriculture to see how weaponized the subject can be when it find the filters. i yeah, i don't, i mean you're, you're talking about in one sense, i mean, is there

a conflating wars which i think again, i think we're both under agreement wars or bad things are populations that really create enormous problems or a poverty they taught cause problems with hunger but in terms of, of price is just the relationship between food prices and underlying farm prices are important. cos there's a lot of costs that have nothing to do with the farm sector, but have everything to do with what's going on in the rest of the economy. yeah, but the john lesandra idiots. where are they getting this information? i figured or no, i just, i think the journalist have a hard time understanding that i, you know, i, i find the most the conversations i have people say, huh. i didn't know that. i didn't realize that you've explained it relatively soon . if the hi, it's complex in the sense of detroit other, you know, you've tried to sort through those, those costs, but you know,

the found value of food at home, consumed in the us is around 25 percent on average. if you look at total food, so including the food consumed away from home, it's less and you know, it's about 13 percent. if you look at the consumed away from home is like 5 percent because you you have to pay everyone in the restaurant. everything else. so those are complexities. uh, just apply. got a get play. i mean, why don't they also understand interesting, lee. i mean, you were again, you would probably at the department when the so called the natural pham. anything hope you're a good lady to live aid eritrea. now has full food security. why is it that a country which is closed off like that as for food security, or say contact to be on the country? i think there's a country that doesn't have a conflict going on. i mean, i, i can look this, this is, i don't think this is our tarkey is, is necessarily the yes or all tarkey works very well as long as you're having

yields that you're producing enough to feed your population. unfortunately, a lot of these areas are also in areas with a very highly variable rainfall. highly variable yields and the fact is they, they have um, you know, when they have big browser production, short balls, they need to import and they, they need, they need a shirt and they are trad, doesn't, there is available as far as i know. and i know, yeah, when it comes to talk to, i suppose, yeah, we simply can talk about about cuba, but isn't the plain peer then the privatized food systems encourage scarcity to increase profits? it's no, i wasn't, i would agree. i would disagree. i would strongly about that. i think that that if you look at your, oh, great case and what is what happened with ukraine? okay, so here you had a country, again, supply and 10 percent of the world suite and all of a sudden shut off entirely in those early months of the war with big markets like egypt and others, trying to find food. i think the market worked extremely well that most of these

countries were able to source food from other suppliers and those are private trade . so essentially in which case, why was we not much cheaper for all that time when? when the previously you had 10 percent of the week that was in the market. i think i told you this is, this is basic economics of supply and demand. if you take 10 percent of the weight off the market because of blocking the ukraine from the rest of the market, so we prices will go up. in fact, i would argue that in the early months, the war there was concerned that russia wouldn't be able to export week and rushes another major market that cause we prices to spike, you know, to record levels. and yeah, but that always seemed to be the surpluses behind the scenes. isn't that the point? because that helps the scarcity which increases the profits. why is there any hunger if the world has enough food? is a question of, i think the, the question is affordability,

and the question is poverty. and if you see the progress that was made in countries like china, it seems to look at the progress that was made globally prior to the, you know, the last 5 years or so. you see that they marched hand in hand with improvements and income around the world that makes food affordable. and that makes the, that the hunger is a tester diminishing those things. now when you add conflict on top of the best, that just creates all sorts of additional problems that aren't easy to solve. but to me, the number one thing if, if, if i working with the, to, to solve the problem with consulate and, and i think we would see poverty diminished just like we have seen in places like there are 3 us places you know, around the world as a hell where i lived for a couple of years. it's just a wonderful place. you know,

but a, if you have more is going on, it's very, very difficult. because the how right region embracing different food systems as we speak. i mean that how dependent on the 10s of millions of people that rely on the federal aid. hi. how dependent on the on on what suddenly happens in the house of representatives in washington from day to day. i can, can suddenly as you know, it's not program, not sure i know who you're talking about. are you talking about farms? well, i'm just saying is regards budgets and when the budgets a voted on an agreed in the house up. yeah, no, i mean look, that is right now the congress is totally dysfunctional and i think that's uh, a each huge concern. and it needs to be for how long is this house? and i mean, just even when you are at the department of agriculture,

all these tens of millions of people's lives hung in the balance of if a budget was no i or if you look, if you're talking about farm bill, the, the, the one is the, the deadline yes, the farm bill expired, but but farmers are covered this year under the, the old farm build. so the real question will be next year. as planning decisions are being they, they don't have to have a farm bill by the end of the year, or have some extension of the current farm bill which, which could happen. but, but, you know, with a farmers you're talking about roughly there's u. s. t a cost so it's just shows that the number is around $2000000.00 farms in the us. but if you look at the farms that are actually producing 85 percent of the production, you're only talking about $300000.00 or so farms but. but yes, they are a lot of them look to farm subsidies, but farm subsidies are a small part of their overall income. and in fact, i would argue as an economist,

that these programs should be done away with dr. jones of global thank you. thanks very much. and that's of and the show will be back with a brand new episode on saturday. but until then came into my role as social media, if it's not sense in your country and had to add channel going, undergoing tv on mobile dot com to watch new and old episodes of going underground . so you said that the russian states never is as tight as i'm one of the most sense community invest. not getting all sun set up the in the system must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will then in the european union,

the kremlin machine, the state on russia to day and split the r t spoke neck, keeping our video agency roughly all the band on due to the services of a question. did you say a request which is the, there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the, or just the case of the med, most of the people i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia this is also of soon, this is the 3rd world will receive re washing press for so the funder line likes to say we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deals to help me living on that. we have very quick propaganda. you know a price here in new york. i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're

not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. some more questions ask a better. the answer is will be the motion over unions and tears of joy. these are all have to do 3 by have math and that's the day of the cruise. find out where to reach their families. and while of the west, back the west bank residents enjoy the deed where we needed. the 3rd group of put in on top of cd and some of the form of detainees spoke about a during abuse while in custody. every day we were under suppression, we were severely beaten. they used to provide us with waterfall only an hour on a daily basis. for 3 policy new students, i've shopped in wounded, near a university in the, you know.