is the implementation of the documents, which lays out a bold mass for the comprehensive and strategic partnership between china and of on to achieve more results. what are the al standing topics brochure was a prospect for one joining china's vicious world? why tries that scheme known as a belt road and it should, it will change to revive the ancient, so called the most modern way. the colossal projects will build a vast mobile network of land air and xerox, which will boost at trees and connectivity across asia. europe and africa, the b r a was 1st announced in 2013 by china. so far, cooperation agreements have been signed with more than 150 countries. the projects include construct a ink or upgrading roads ports, railways, pipelines, and other trade related infrastructure, including internet connectivity and digital investment programs. they want as a country to tell the title of trade cross roads on this oak road to play a key part on china's new trade quarter, mostly with the account. the one build one that old initiative is the cedric policy

proceed by china. you're on this role in the asian silk roll switches, back miscellaneous, iran held the major position of this area, giving out agreements and then the goal. she, since we had regarding the building the road initiative. it on can connected snowden neighbors did solving persian gulf countries. and east asia to northeast asia. it was a child's interests coincide. i'm very frauds. both are members of the shanghai cooperation organization. and the one will soon be a permanent member of the brakes, which also has china on board. now is the dollars extra and has become a buzzword and brooks attempt to push for a multiple or was order vision to one view this initiative as a catalyst for their tre plans. china, new role in china and to run has common interest and common challenges. so they are moving in the same direction. one of the common goals is to get treat of the yes, don't that by using their own national currencies or equation. and you carmen c,

which will also benefit breaks contradicting of a speaking of friendship. not only has vision maintained its try me relationship with the wrong. it has recently reconciled the country with its former artful saudi arabia. something which has largely we can be watched as role in the middle east. now this, i know a one in bonds will continue to face new interesting adventures as both are united by comments read study trust, usability are 2 different. what is good buy from us and most good for now, we are hunting over the next such minutes. and so the action with time food on getting underground, enjoy the

i'm option or can see it welcome back to going underground, broadcasting all around the world from dubai. we will bleed is touching down for the you in climate change conference starting this thursday. cop 28 because it means to me, alleged u. k. you as you nation back to genocide in the region, leaving hundreds of thousands hungry to night in gauze. if today we have a world full of surplus food and people are still having with tens of millions in the usa for us to rely on federal aid to eat. what happens when climate change exponentially increases? wildfires, floods and droughts all around the world with me in washington dc is the us government school. i'm a chief economist at the department of agriculture and a senior research fellow at the international food policy research institute. doctor joseph clover to thank you so much for coming on. so varied figures, but around but maybe 830000000. they're going to go hungry to night. more and more

than enough food for everyone in the world to eat. what would you have done that the reason food for him in rome, if you was still the u. s. department of agriculture is chief economist what you've sort of shouted at them. yeah, i don't. i think these problems are beyond the chief account, the some of the you have to remember that something like 60 percent of the world's hunger is people are in areas where there's conflict right now. and so that's, that's a very difficult saying. you're talking about much, much bigger problem and their sense of war is going on here. we see this all refugees, all sorts of personal calamities that are again, hunger is part of that. i mean, daily. it is a but you, if you are there, the department of agriculture for 30 years, i'll be, is the, the countries that are listed by your institute and, and others as the risk of,

of widespread big universal famine. they're all on the military attack or military intervention from the united states. i mean, what do you think is the at the agriculture department? i mean, if we can go through the, i guess i don't ever, i don't take your point. i what countries in particular you're talking about hunger ciriani tube, your have dentist on human somalia, syria garza, i suppose. yeah, i was, i or i wouldn't necessarily point the finger at the us on that. but if that's your opinion, that's fine. but really i, i'm asking you, what do you think about the connection between food and that violence, the weapons trade? oh yeah, no question. absolutely, i'm, i think, as again, as i said, it is one of the major causes of hunger. because, you know, when you look at hunger is really boils down to availability on the one hand in affordability on the other. and unfortunately, poverty and hunger or go hand in hand, best or tragic part of all this but,

but the bigger problem in some areas is just availability, particular income areas where there's conflict and, and that's what we've seen is there's big a search over the last 10 years and the number of hungry people, and there's been an areas like this a, how are the countries that you mentioned and again, is, is totally exacerbated by war. and yet the recent headlines have sent it on say the black sea green initiative, or the indian uh, number smart the rice export regime is to, to buy the indian government. so i'm going to be increasing before these 2 issues. raise their head. sure, sure. but, but prices play a big role here, and when you have actions taken by governments, the exacerbate food supplies are, you know, jeopardize food supplies that has an impact on, on, on,

on crisis. and because of that, it makes, it seems like rice and wheat and other things west affordable for those. what do you know, import those products? you're reading of the black sea green initiative because we had someone from the oakland institute who told us that the next to the next to no impact on poor countries. just 3 percent of the ukraine food went to poor countries. it was a more of a propaganda weapon in this war in, in ukraine then act. oh no i, i guess i think that's totally false. i mean that's i just, you know, you can, it's a supply 10 percent of it was week something like 13 percent of the world's core and before the war. that's been um, you know, but unfortunately they're now producing 35 percent less than what they were doing pretty more as a result of more. and that's less weak in the market that's less corn in the world market. you know, in terms of where we went in one says it's almost a material because what those supplies mean for the rest of the world is lower

prices and lower prices are felt by every country in the world. so yes, there, there was some we did go to africa through the world food program. a lot of, uh uh, we went to north africa and in the mid east, you know, traditional buyers of u claim we, but right now there's almost nothing coming out of the black seas. and their production is, you know, it's been reduced by 3040 percent. so, i mean that's, that's the reality of the war. and you might argue that that's not, it doesn't have an impact, but i would argue longer term, it has a certainly has an impact. because if there is another shortage somewhere else in the world, you'll see prices jump again a big time. but the un themselves only said 3 percent went to those countries and prices of being more historically low as to why. but what, what do you think the, what do you think the market for you claim wait was before the war in sub saharan

africa? you hazard a guess. i mean, it was, it was a tell, it is one of their big is one of their big markets. you know, the really about cents. but then why was it sold to us is, it is about all about oil supplies is all about way supplies and supplies are, when do you have less suppliers on way markets, you have higher prices, and that's why you have problems in, you know, with poor countries when there is an affordability issue in terms of buying grant here, but clearly tony blinking at the state department wasn't saying that he was saying, ukraine is a fundamental part of it's ups are and africans dependence on food. and this is what we're hearing from nato capitals. well, i guess you're talking about higher prices, you know, a, we're in the end today which will be by the actual flight exports from ukraine. yeah. so how the in the i'm just saying that the ukraine, a switch shipped,

they're very important for amenities north africa. they shift a lot of weight in the past to asian markets. they, they ship some of the subs her in africa. and what we saw last year is the sub saharan africa had last week. um, you know, they were down about 11 percent and some of that was due the fact that last week was coming out of the black sea and and the fact that we prices were so high in the 1st half of the year. yeah, i mean we have it for manual is that it was actually something benefiting big agri business. how difficult is it being a senior research fellow at the international food policy research institute because you're funded by moscow funded by washington. you're funded by k b. m g, which is the lucky martin consultant, the company. i mean that deals with raphael and how, how does an institute like yours remain independent when we have the weaponized at the moment and research on how food systems work is so weaponized?

yeah, i think you'll, i think you'll find and talking to people that the general impression of the work that my colleagues do is very a just objective the very i have your right. i've been funded by over my current a short time there. i've been funded by a lot of different countries, a little bit from the us, but mostly from europe, from other other countries around the world. and essentially to look at issues like trade, to look at food security issues and to look at at the market and analyses, which was my former job was tracking markets around the world at the department of agriculture. you do take the one of the most fundamental reasons for global hunger is how pressure global south countries are to privatize the land and been able to recreate all the gar power that ends up with their food being exported

. instead of being fed to that populations, you know, i don't, i don't think that's an issue. i think improving productivity around the world is, is very important. and that's, you know, that's true in the poorest countries of sub saharan africa is true. it's true in the big export and countries like australia or europe or the us. um, we have a serious challenge or the next several years to need a growing population and a population that is um, you know, uh, facing climate change and other things that, that are really important. and that's going to mean, you know, countries around the world need to improve productivity. yeah, we heard from progressive under the shiva on this program, people can watch our interview with their own rumbles saying actually productivity was much higher before the incoming huge crop companies. they destroyed productivity. i understand your institute is also funded by crop life international

which is represents b i. so i was like one is i don't know what i, i don't know. i cropped weiss if there's much funding that comes from them. most of the funding comes from there on your website and the major fund that govern metal. and so you can get into the, i'm the productivity of crow ups you believe is helped by these big multi nationals that clearly have an interest in making those countries dependent on i think there's a as well we also support our are other centers like center that that have public research for on, on wheat varieties that have been shipped all around the world. are you there? yes, there are private developers for things like mays and story beings in particular. but we've seen an enormous productivity gains. i don't understand. the point of, of, you know, you would refer to this other study because that certainly is contrary to anything that we have or that we've, we've shown. i mean,

when you are at the department of agriculture is during that period, the china broad, 800000000 out of poverty. clearly with the will be at some small scale farming. but under a large democratic controls right up to be ging. tonight, 40000000 in the united states will stop without federal aid. annual food snap program does not show a stock contrast about food security. how did that happen? it's is, unfortunately, there weren't changes in government or in the, in the social safety net in the ninety's that took away a lot of the income support, replaced it with a whole suite of programs. and we right now we have a food stamp program that is roughly a $142000000000.00 annually is provide supplemental nutrition assistance to families in need. and the projections are over the next 10 years that those will run, those outlays will run around a $120000000000.00 a year. yeah. but oh,

you mentioned aid and federal aid, the changes in the ninety's. but i mean, obviously the point is not to be building out a 2 people lives a, it's self sufficiency. no, absolutely. no, no, no, absolutely. i mean this is, these are big structural issues that the us has done poorly out. i would, i would argue, i mean we just, we have persistent part poverty, particularly in rural areas, are in urban areas, but also in rural areas as well. and you have families that have been generations and poppy and those are not things to be proud of. i would agree and did you see it coming when you were in the development of agriculture? because as i say, a different, you can always, there's this new like this isn't do if i were to go. if i were to go back to 1998 when we, when, when i was at the department of air and we initiated the survey, we had 12 percent of families in prison, food and secure households,

you know, is down marginally suspense. so your point of making very little progress, i think, yes that's, that's certainly a problem, but this is something that the, the us is, are certainly we've been tracking or the us department of agriculture has been tracking for many years now at least is getting better. i don't enjoy as a globe or i'll stop you there. more from the us government department, chief economist at the department of agriculture and that senior research fellow at the international food policy research institute. after this break the

the welcome back to going on the garden. i'm still here with the senior research fellow at the international food policy research institute, dr. joseph club for joseph. so we were talking about the systems of, of, of food and the bulk of the in the united states. what about the, what's really being in the news lately, which is about this india and on this multi rice ben. why? what is your understanding of wind is doing it in any way? well, hey, you have to look at this in perspective. india has, the rice production has, has increased substantially over the last 15 years back and in the early, 2, thousands, you know, they were probably about 5 percent of the world market. they're now 40 percent of

world exports come from india. they've been very important and for a number of countries, a re supplier for many, many countries, both in asia, but also in africa. subsaharan africa, west africa. i'm a yeah. so the, the, the, the, at least the way the, the indian government has articulated the banners that there they have concerned about food insulation. and food prices or rice prices have been high in india and like they have been, are all around the world. and they have more properties in the whole of subs are in africa put together in india. they have poverty. yes, that's true. they also have more rights to they have a surplus rice in their, their, their country. they have plenty of rice to their population. that's not an issue. i think um uh, but the more the government is rice isn't the only thing. they have a ban on onions. they have a ban on the they've had a ban on we last year. so this is all, you know,

it's no surprise the government is up for re election or they will stand for general elections next year. they want to keep food prices. uh, you know, i could try to keep a little insulation white's a lot of countries. i might, yeah, i mean, inflation has been food inflation. it has been, you know, in the high double digits for many countries around the world, including western economies, including the us, including the, you know, it doesn't matter. we're actually on that subject. why is, why is food inflation so much higher in western europe that in the global south countries have well, one reason for the very good. yeah. yeah, there's a good reason for that. is that, you know, this is this, i think i'll use a fact, a lot of people don't appreciate it is the fact that most the costs of retail food comes after it leaves the farm. so if you look at the price of bread, the week in that brand is only about 5 percent of the value. so all these other

costs afterwards, things like labor costs, things like energy costs, you know, to transform the middle of the wheat into flower, to transform that flower into bread, to get that on grocery shows, all that costs money. and those are been things that wage rates have been up and a lot of western economies, we've seen very, very high energy costs. so that is across the board is, you know, it was the oil, it's electricity is other things. all these things have added to processing costs and causes a big increase in um, retail food. so there's more likely to be the loss of the north stream pipeline why than in mainstream media so called are they always talking about food supply and farm supply? when it comes to hi, i agree, are you, you raise a great, great point. i have to raise the press interviews. people have done with me. i always point out to him that most of the costs come after the, the found and, and some of those. if you look at the retail price in, in uh,

a more developed developing economy that those, those margins typically are less. that is there, there may be less processed or thanks, but it is, is still true. there are 2 they are getting, for example, getting green in from the point to inland markets that all costs money. and that's where we see big inflation for a lot of countries plus the exchange rate. um, you know, commodities are old denominated in dollars a typically. so if you put those in local currencies, look at egypt, for example. we prices in egypt, in church, in pounds, you know, or at, i was very continued to be at very, very high levels. whereas world prices are generally come down to being below right now roll pre war levels. so clearly until the dollarization, the dollar is a refuge in that case, but these journalists or not, it's a, is it

a question of the fact that the food policy is weaponized, you must have come across that into department of agriculture. how food policy can be weaponized and how, whether it be protectionism or whether it be as part of military intervention. i mean, we only have to look at sanctions, regimes in both by the united states on countries. and so the salvation iraq, obviously, when you were at the department of agriculture to see how weaponized this subject can be when it find the filters. i yeah, i don't, i mean, what you're talking about in one sense, i mean, is there a conflating wars which i think again, i think we're both in agreement wars or bad things or populations. they really create enormous problems or a poverty they con, cause problems with hunger. but in terms of, of a good price is just the relationship between full prices and underlying farm

prices are in port cos. there's a lot of costs that have nothing to do with this arm stuck to have everything to do with what's going on with the rest of the economy. yeah, but the john this on it, it's where are they getting this information i have or? no, i don't, i think the journalist have a hard time understanding that i, you know, i, i find the most the conversations i have people say. huh. i didn't know that i didn't realize that, you know, you've explained it relatively simple. what, hi, it's complex in the sense of the try the other, you know, you've tried to sort through those those pasta. but, you know, the found value of food at home, consumed in the us is around 25 percent on average. if you look at total source, so including the food consumed away from home, it's less and you know, it's about 13 percent. if you look at consume away from home is like 5 percent because you you have to pay everyone in the restaurant everything else. so those are complexities. uh, just apply. got a gear play. i mean,

why don't they also understand? interestingly, i mean, you were again, you were probably at the department when the so called the natural found anything, hope you're a good leading to live aid eritrea now has full food security. why is it that a country which is closed off like that as for food security, or say, contact me on the country, i think there's a country that doesn't have a conflict going on. i mean, i, i can look this, this is, i don't think this is our tarkey is, is necessarily the expert. all tarkey works very well as long as you're having yields that you're producing enough to feed your population. unfortunately, a lot of these areas are also in areas with a very highly variable rainfall. highly variable yields and the fact is they, they have um, you know, when they have big browser production, short balls, they need to import and they, they need, they need a show or trad, does it, there is available as far as i know. and uh, i know, yeah,

when it comes to talk to us because yeah, we simply can talk about about q, but isn't the plain p a then that privatized food systems encourage scarcity to increase profits? it so i, well, i would agree, i would disagree, and i would strongly about that. i think that, that if you look at, i, you know, great cation point is what happened with ukraine. ok, so here you had a country, a day supply and 10 percent of the world suite. all of a sudden shut off entirely in those early months of the war with big markets like egypt and others, trying to find food. i think the market worked extremely well that the most of these countries were able to source food from other suppliers, and those are private trade that so essentially then which case, why was we not much cheaper for all that time when uh, when the policy you had 10 percent of the week that wasn't in the market. i think i told you this is, this is basic economics of supply and demand. if you take 10 percent of the weight

off the market because of blocking the ukraine from the rest of the market, the wheat prices will go up. in fact, i would argue that in the early months, the war there was concerned that russia wouldn't be able to export. we and rushes, another major market that cause we prices to spike, you know, to record levels. and yeah, but that always seemed to be the surplus is behind the scenes, isn't that the point? because that helps the scarcity which increases the profits. why is there any hunger if the world has enough food? is a question of, i think the, the question is affordability, and the question is poverty. and if you see the progress that was made in countries like china, this seems to look at the progress that was made below the weight prior to the, you know, the last 5 years or so, you see that they marched hand in hand with improvements and income around the world that makes food a 40 and that makes that,

that hungry is tends to diminish in those things. now when you add conflict on top of that, that's, that just creates all sorts of additional problems that aren't easy to solve. but to me, the number one thing if, if, if i working with the, to, to solve the problem with conflict and, and i think we would see poverty diminished just like we have seen in places like there are 3 us places you know, around the world as the hell where i lived for a couple of years. it's just a wonderful place. you know, buddy, if you have more is going on, it's very, very difficult. because the hell right region embracing different food systems as we speak. i mean that how dependent on the 10s of millions of people that rely on federal aid. hi, how dependent on the on on what suddenly happens in the house of representatives in

washington from day to day. i can, can suddenly as you know, it's not program not try know who your talk, barry, you talked about farms? well i'm just saying is regards budgets and with the budgets a voted on an agreed in the house. uh yeah, no, i mean the bed is right now the congress is totally dysfunctional and i think that's uh, a each huge concern. and it needs to be for how long is this house? and i mean, just even when you are at the department of agriculture, all these tens of millions of people's lives hung in the balance of if a budget was no i or if you're, if you look, if you're talking about farm bill, the, the, the one is the the deadline. yes, the farm bill expires, but, but farmers are covered this year under the, the old farm build. so the real question will be next year is planning of decisions

are being they, they don't have to have a farm bill by the end of the year, or have some extension of the current farmed or which, which could happen. but, but, you know, with a farmers you're talking about roughly there's u. s. t a club. so says that the number is around 2000000 farms in the us. but if you look at the farms that are actually producing 85 percent of the production, you're only talking about $300000.00 or so farms but, but yes, they are. a lot of them look to farm subsidies, but farms subsidies are a small part of their overall income. and in fact, i would argue as an economist, that these programs should be done away with dr. joseph global. thank you. thanks very much. and that's of, of the show will be back with a brand new episode on saturday. but until then keep me in touch my role as social media. if it's not sense in your country and had to watch, i don't going undergoing tv on rumble dot com to watch and you and all the episodes of going underground. so you said that the

west bank residents, lot of the streets enjoy as, as well, really says a sod group of thoughts. you know, i'm kind of sitting in some of the freed detainees describe life in custody. every day we were under suppression, we were severely beaten. they used to provide us with water for only an hour on a daily basis. and motional reunions and tears of happiness to me as ropes who passed hostages fried by her last all were united with best families. and a 9 year old go very age by is radia and weston major. as a victim of her last.