certainly point the finger at the us on that, but if that's your opinion, that's fine. but really i, i'm asking you, what do you think about the connection between food and that violence, the weapons trade? oh yeah, no question. absolutely, i'm, i think, as again, as i said, it is one of the major causes of hunger. because, you know, when you look at hunger is really boils out to availability on the one hand in affordability on the other. and unfortunately, poverty and hunger or go hand in hand, best or tragic part of all this but, but the bigger problem in some areas is just availability, particular income areas where there's conflict and, and that's what we've seen as big a search over the last 10 years in the number of hungry people, and it's been in areas like this to help the countries that you mentioned and again, is, is totally exacerbated by war. and yet the recent headlines have sent it on say

the blacks, the green initiative, or the indian uh nanda smart, the rice export regime is to, to buy the indian government. so i'm going to be increasing before these 2 issues raised there. sure, sure. but, but prices play a big role here, and when you have actions taken by governments, the exacerbate food supplies are, you know, jeopardize food supplies that has an impact on, on, on, on crisis. and because of that it makes, or, um, it seems like rice and we and other things less affordable for those. what do you, you know, import those products. you are reading of the black sea green initiative because we had someone from the oakland is that you told us that the next to the next to no impact on poor countries. just 3 percent of the ukraine food went to poor countries . it was a more of a propaganda weapon in this war in,

in ukraine then act. oh no i, i guess i think that's totally false. i mean that's like this. yeah. well, you can, it's a supply 10 percent of that was we something like 13 percent of the world's core and before the war that's been um, you know, unfortunately they're now producing 35 percent less than what they were doing pretty more as a result of more and that's less, we, in the world market that's less corner of the world market. you know, in terms of where we went in one sense is almost immaterial. because what those supplies mean for the rest of the world is lower prices and lower prices are felt by every country in the world. so yes, there, there was some we did go to africa through the world food program. a lot of, uh uh, we went to north africa and in the mid east, you know, traditional buyers of you claim we, but right now there's almost nothing coming out of the black seas. and their production is, you know, it's been reduced by 3040 percent. so, i mean that's,

that's the reality of the war. and you might argue that that's not, it doesn't have an impact, but i would argue longer term, it has a certainly has an impact. because if there is another shortage somewhere else in the world, you'll see prices jumped out in a big time. but the un themselves only said 3 percent went to those countries and prices of being more historically low as to why. but, but what do you think the, what do you think the market for you claim wait was before the war in sub saharan africa? hazard a guess? i mean, it was, it was a tell, it is not one of their big is one of their big markets. you know, the really about cents. but then why was it sold to us is, it is about all about oil supplies is all about when supplies and supplies are, when do we have less suppliers on way markets, you have higher prices, and that's why you have problems in, you know,

with poor countries when there's an affordability issue in terms of buying grant here, but clearly tony blinking at the state department wasn't saying that he was saying, ukraine is a fundamental part of subs are in africa and dependence on food. and this is what we're hearing from nato capitals. well, i guess you're talking about higher prices, you know, a, we're in the end today which we buy the actual flight exports from ukraine. yeah. to how the in the i'm just saying that the ukraine, a switch shipped, they're very important for embodies north africa. they shift a lot of weight in the past to asian markets. they, they ship some of the sub saharan africa. and what we saw last year is the sub saharan africa i had last week. you know, they were down about 11 percent and some of that was due the fact that less weight was coming out of the black sea and, and the fact that we prices were so high in the 1st half of the year. yeah,

i mean we have it for manual is that it was actually something benefiting big agri business. how difficult is it being a senior research fellow at the international food policy research institute because you are funded by moscow funded by washington. your funded by k b. m. g, which is lucky, martin consultant, the company, i mean they had deals with raphael and how, how does it is if you'd like us remain independent when we have a weaponized at the moment and research on how food systems work is so weaponized. yeah, i think you'll, i think you'll find and talking to people that the general impression of the work that my colleagues do is very a jet objective. the very the i have your right. i've been funded by over my current a short time. there had been funded by a lot of different countries, a little bit from the us, but mostly from europe and from other other countries around the world. and

essentially to look at issues like trade to look at food security issues and to look at, at the market analyses which was by farmer job was tracking markets around the world uh at the department of agriculture. you do take the one of the most fundamental reasons for global hunger is how pressure global south countries are to privatize the land and inevitably creates all the goc power that the ends up with their food being exported. instead of being fed to that populations, you know, i don't, i don't think that's an issue. i think improving productivity around the world is, is very important. and that's, you know, that's true in the poorest countries of sub saharan africa is true. it's true in the big export and countries like australia or europe or the us. um, we have a serious challenge or the next several years to feed

a growing population and a population that is um, you know, uh, facing climate change and other things that, that are really important. and that's going to mean, you know, countries around the world need to improve productivity. yeah, we heard from progressive under the shiva on this program, people can watch our interview with their own rumbles saying actually productivity was much higher before the incoming huge crop companies. they destroyed productivity. i understand your institute is also funded by crop life international which is who represents be a so i would be like one is i don't know what i, i don't know what crop weiss if there is much funding that comes from them. most of the funding comes from there on your website and the major fund that govern metal. and so you can get into the, i'm the productivity of crow ups that you believe is helped by these big multi nationals that clearly have an interest in making those countries dependent on i

think there's a as well we also support our are other centers like center that, that have public research for on, on wheat varieties that have been shipped to all around the world. are you there? yes, there are private developers for things like mays and story b, as in particular. but we've seen an enormous productivity gains. i don't understand the point of, of, you know, you refer to this other study because that certainly is contrary to anything that we have. right now we've, we've shown, i mean, when you are at the department of agriculture is during that period. the china broad, $800000000.00 out of poverty clearly with the will be at some small scale farming, but under a large democratic controls right up to badging tonight. 40000000 in the united states will stop without federal aid. annual food snap program does not show a stock contrast about food security. how did that happen?

it's is, unfortunately, there weren't changes in government or in the, in the social safety net in the ninety's that took away a lot of income support, replaced it with a whole suite of programs. and we right now we have a food stamp program that is roughly a $142000000000.00 annually is provide supplemental nutrition assistance to families in need. and the projections are over the next 10 years. if those will run those outlays. we'll run around a $120000000000.00 a year. yeah. but oh, you mentioned aid of and federal aid, the changes in the ninety's. but i mean, obviously the point is not to be building out a 2 people lives a it's self sufficiency. no, absolutely. no, no, no, absolutely. i mean this is, these are big structural issues that the us has done poorly. i would, i would argue, i mean we just, we have persistent part poverty, particularly in rural areas, are in urban areas,

but also in rural areas as well. and you have families that have been generations and poppy, and those are not things to be proud of. i would agree. and did you see it coming when you were in the development of agriculture? because as i say, a different, you can always this new like, this isn't new if i were to go. if i were to go back to 1998, when we, when, when i was at the department of air holding, we initiated the survey. we had 12 percent of families in prison, food and secure households, you know, is down marginally suspense. so your point of making very little progress. i think yes that's, that's certainly a problem, but this is something that the, the us is, are certainly we've been tracking or the us department of agriculture has been tracking for many years now. a, hey, lisa is getting better at dr. joseph over. i'll stop you. the more from the us government's moment chief economist at the department of agriculture and that

senior research fellow at the international food policy research institute. after this break, the news is, is, can be started by law. these can be expanded by a true importance, and we can never be of a study since that transparency is extraordinary. john mystic patrice then just succeeded in finding documents that existed in making them available to the public domain. what could be more holding back by publishing information and sharing information with the public. he was exercising the right to free speech. he did so in the public interest, watched as a mom realized tends to me. uh and, and honestly, the biggest of late,

continuously. i know why advice may assume that no one who is the guy that illegal anymore wisely fort adjusted for to be on box weighing a 175 used to go through the extensions. are we going to let that stay the the,

the welcome back to going out of the garden. i'm still here with the senior research fellow at the international food policy research institute, dr. joseph glover. joseph. so we were talking about the systems of, of, of food and the above of the, in the united states. what about the, what's really being in the news lately, which is about this india and on this multi rice, ben. why, what is your understanding of wind is doing it in any way as well? hey, you have to look at this in perspective. india has their rice production has, has increased substantially over the last 15 years back and in the early, 2, thousands, you know, they were probably about 5 percent of the world market. they're now 40 percent of world exports come from india. they've been very important and for a number of countries are now a race supplier for many, many countries,

both in asia, but also in africa, sub saharan africa, west africa, a. yeah. so the, the, the, the, at least the way the, the indian government has articulated the banners that there they have concern about food insulation. and food prices or rice prices have been high in india and like they have been, are all around the world. and they have more of a decent level of subs are in africa put together in india. they have poverty. yes, that's true. they also have more rights to they have a surplus rice in their, their, their country. they have plenty of rice to feed their population. that's not an issue. i think um uh, but the more the government is rice isn't the only thing. they have a ban on engines. they have a ban on the they've had a ban on we last year. so this is all, you know, it's no surprise the government is up for re election or they'll stand for general elections next year. they want to keep good prices uh, you know, or to try to keep

a lid on insulation whites. a lot of countries i might, yeah, i mean, inflation has been food inflation and it has been, you know, in the high double digits for many countries around the world, including western economies, including the us, including, you know, it doesn't matter. we're actually on that subject. why is, why is food inflation so much higher in western europe that in the global south countries have well, one reason for the very good, you know, yeah, there's a good reason for that. is that the, you know, this is this. i think i use the fact that a lot of people don't appreciate it is the fact that most of the costs are retail food comes after it leaves the farm. so if you look at the price of bread, the week in that brand is only about 5 percent of the value. so all these other costs afterwards, things like labor costs, things like energy costs, you know, to transform the middle of the wheat into flower,

to transform that flower into bread, to get that on grocery shelves, all that costs money. and those are been things that wage rates have been up and a lot of western economies, we've seen very, very high energy costs. so that is across the board is, you know, is the oil. it's like, tricity is other things. all these things have added to processing costs and costs a big increase in um, retail food. so it's more likely to be the loss of the north stream pipeline. why that in mainstream media? so call the they always talking about food supply and farm supply. when it comes to higher, i agree, are you, you raise a great, great point. i have to raise the press interviews. people have done with me. i always point out to him that most of costs come after the, the found and, and some of those. if you look at the retail price in, in uh, a more developed developing economy that those,

those margins typically are less. that is there, there may be less processed or fix, but it is, is still true. there are 2 there getting, for example, getting green in from the court to inland markets that all costs money. and that's where we see big inflation for a lot of countries plus exchange rate. um, you know, commodities are old uh denominated in dollars typically. so if you put those in local currencies, looking at agent, for example, uh uh, we prices in egypt or in addiction around, you know, or at hot, was there a continued to be a very, very high levels. whereas world prices are generally come down to being below right now roll pre war levels. so and clearly until the dollarization, the dollar is a refuge in that case. but these don't listen to it. it's a, is it a question of the fact that the food policy is weaponized,

you must have come across that into department of agriculture. how food policy can be weaponized and how, whether it be protectionism or whether it be as part of military intervention. i mean, we only have to look at sanctions, regimes in both by the united states on countries. and so the salvation iraq, obviously when you were at the department of agriculture to see how weaponized the subject can be when it find the filters. i yeah, i don't, i mean look, you're, you're talking about in one sense, i mean 0 conflating words, which i think again, i think we're both in agreement wars or bad things or populations. they really create enormous problems or a poverty they cause cause problems with hunger but in terms of, of food price is just the relationship between food prices and underlying farm prices are important. cos there's a lot of costs that have nothing to do with the farm sector. but have everything to

do with what's going on with the rest of the economy. yep, it's a joyless on it. it's where are they getting this information i have or? no, i don't, i think the journalist have a hard time understanding that i, you know, i, i find the most the conversations i have people say, huh. i didn't know that. i didn't realize that you didn't explain it relatively soon. i a hi, it's complex in the sense of do you try it under, you know, you've tried to sort through those, those costs, but you know, the value of food at home, consumed in the us is around 25 percent on the average. if you look at total source, so including the food consumed away from home, it's less and you know, it's about 13 percent. if you look at the consumed away from home, it's like 5 percent because you, you have to pay everyone in the restaurant everything else. so those are complexities the, just a pilot got arguably, i mean, why don't they also understand interestingly, i mean, you were again, you were probably at the department when the so called the natural family needs the

hope you're a good leading to live a eritrea now has full food security, why is it that a country which is closed off like that as for food security, or say contact me on the country that i think there's a country that doesn't have conflict going on. i mean, i, i can look this, this is, i don't think this is all tarkey is, is necessarily the yes or all tarkey works very well as long as you're having yields that you're producing enough to feed your population. unfortunately, a lot of these areas are also in areas with a very highly variable rainfall. highly variable yields and the fact is they, they have um, you know, when they have big browser production shortfalls, they need to import and they, they need, they need a sure and they're trad, doesn't, there is available for as i know. and i didn't. yeah. when it comes to talk to us was guy, we simply can talk about about q, but isn't the plain peer, then the privatized food systems encourage scarcity to increase profits?

it's no, i wasn't, i would agree with. i would disagree. i would strongly about that. i think that, that if you look at i, you know, in greek case and what is what happened with the ukraine. okay, so here you had a country, again, supply and 10 percent of the world's sweet and all of a sudden shut off entirely in those early months of the war with big markets like egypt and others, trying to find food. i think the market worked extremely well, but that most of these countries were able to source food from other suppliers and those are private trade that so essentially in which case, why was we not much cheaper for all that time when? when the previously you had 10 percent of the week that wasn't in the market. i think i told you this is, this is the basic economics of supply and demand. if you take 10 percent of the weight off the market because of blocked in the ukraine from the rest of the market,

so we prices will go up. in fact, i would argue that in the early months, the war there was concerned that russia wouldn't be able to export. we and rushes, another major market that cause we prices to spike, you know, to record levels. and yeah, but that always seem to be the surplus is behind the scenes, isn't that the point? because that helps the scarcity which increases the profits. why is there any hunger if the world has enough food? is a question of, i think the, the question is affordability, and the question is poverty. and if you see the progress that was made in countries like china, that seems to look at the progress that was made globally prior to the, you know, the last 5 years or so. you see that they marched hand in hand with improvements and income around the world that makes food a 40. and that makes that, that the hunger is, tends to diminish in those things. now when you add conflict on top of the best,

that just creates all sorts of additional problems that aren't easy to solve. but to me, the number one thing if, if, if i working with the, to, to solve the problem with conflict and, and i think we would see poverty diminished just like we have seen in places like there are 3 us places you know, around the world as a hell where i lived for a couple of years. it's just a wonderful place. you know, but the, if you have more is going on, it's very, very difficult. because the hell right region embracing different food systems as we speak. i mean that how dependent on the 10s of millions of people that rely on the federal aid. hi. how dependent on the on on what suddenly happens in the house of representatives in washington from day to day. i can,

can suddenly as you know, it's not program, not sure. i know who your talk, barry you talked about farms? well i'm just saying is regards budgets and when the budgets a voted on an agreed in the house up. yeah, no, i mean look, that is right now the congress is totally dysfunctional and i think that's uh, a each huge concern. and it needs to be for how long is this house? and i mean, just even when you are at the department of agriculture, all these tens of millions of people's lives hung in the balance of if a budget was no i or if you look, if you're talking about farm bill, the, the, the one is the, the deadline yes, the farm bill expires, but, but farmers are covered this year under the the old farm build. so the real question will be next year is planning. the decisions are being they, they don't have to have a farm bill by the end of the year, or have some extension of the current farm bill which, which could happen. but,

but, you know, with some farmers you're talking about roughly there's us ga club. so it shows that the number is around 2000000 farms in the us. but if you look at the farms that are actually producing 85 percent of the production, you're only talking about $300000.00 or so farms but, but yes, they are. a lot of them look to farm subsidies, but farm subsidies are a small part of their overall income. and in fact, i would argue as an economist, that these programs should be done away with dr. jones of global thank you. thanks very much. and that's of, of the show will be back with the brand new episode on saturday. but until then came into my role as social media, if it's not sense in your country and had to add channel going, undergoing tv on mobile dot com to watch new and old episodes of going underground . so you said the,

the russian states never as tight as i'm sort of the most sense community best, most all set and set up the same assistance and speed. the one else calls question about this, even though we will then in the you of when the kremlin the machine stayed on the rushes coding and split the r t spoke neck, keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube tv services. for what question did you say a request for check the

tape. uh, but with get ready to go. was that correct sir? but i was calling to check to see to see. oh see ya need them to see. she must see a motion to be in the, in the most of the you have to put us on that i can is i'm definitely an institution developed dependent on many countries. they have 1300000000 roman catholics around the world. and as they say in america, follow the money that it can. it gets most of its money from pro western countries that lot of the nato countries, spain, italy, england, germany, as well as mexico and the united states. so it is dependent on the fact that people sort of come on. let's get cool grants and you've got you have to deal with rich

new i'm is the what comes after the ceasefire. will this real look for a way to end the hostilities or will it continue? is more of an i elation also next year of nato turn. 75 years old. is the alliance seeking the creative way to induction ukraine in today? the of the, by the early 1950 can you became one of the centers of resistance to colonialism in africa. the british invaders infringed on the most basic rights of the local population. great britain pursued the policy of squeezing out the local population from their indigenous lands. the best airable areas were given to white farmers,

dooming canyons, stepfather, d, and hunger. this caused the sharp protest of the peasants and led to the emerging of the mile mile movement. which started the play against the invaders. the rebels called themselves canyon, land and freedom army. this spiritual leader of the movement would be anti colonial, active as jo, mo kenyata, the freedom fighters used guerrilla tactics and attacked the individual units of the british troops. the latter responded with massive air raids and artillery effects. when suppressing the uprise of london relied on the maximum cruelty over $50000.00 canyons were killed. about 300000 people were thrown into prisons and concentration camps, where tortures in no way inferior in girl z to the nazis was widely practiced. the veracity of the colonialist only led the temporary success. in 1963, the british empire had to recognize the independence of gain. yeah. however, the colonial raising left behind

a trail of blood and wounds that canyon nation has not recovered from and sale. now, [000:00:00;00] the headlines about the international us time takes the last day of the israel high, must cease fire coal some around the world demand an extension to the troops of the destruction of throughout god. that leaves it badly. recognizable in a sea arrest was very harsh to the storm to my house threatened to arrest my family . and my nephew's children, i suffered a lot the story of a palestinian prisoner who was released from his ready custody in the small deal among the 117 listing and women and children set free so far. a 9 year old girl whose dad on his riley and watched and media said that she was