absolutely broke these picture and each they showed that the ukraine was prevented from accepting the peace deal with russia, which was quite favorable. and i think you're gonna be start off. i mean, she's interview acknowledges this was not a bad deal at this time. but down came the boys, johnson, i've said that we have, we will have to fight them, we will fight them. and this was absolutely driven not by you bring them into the spot by the interest of some members of the western establishment in particular. mister johnson. well, files over this thing is our next close talk and we'll be back in about 30 minutes . the

the the hello and welcome to cross stock. were all things are considered? non peter labelle, what comes after the ceasefire? will israel look for a way to end the hostilities or will it continue? it's more of an i elation. also next year, nato turn. 75 years old. is the align seeking a creative way to induct ukraine into nato. the to discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess, george samuel lee in budapest. he is

a pod cast or at the goggle which can be found on youtube and locals and american us. we have martin j t is an award winning journalist and commentator or a gentleman crossed up rules and effect. that means you can jump any time you want and i always appreciate it. okay, we'll start out with george and in budapest like as we're speaking gentleman. the ceasefire is holding. the 2nd day was it was a bit wobbly. some doubts into going into the night, but they made it through so um and there's every reason to believe that the ceasefire, pause, exchange of how of, of captives will proceed. and i don't think there's much doubt about that. it's what comes after, and i think that's really the big question and they'll still be a lot of captives in gaza. we and there are a lot of military officials as well. a mazda is not going to give them up very easily. we've seen in the past, i think it was for one soldier, a 1000 prisoners. the problem is really jail. so this is,

this whole process of exchange is far from over. and they would really be letting you know whose government has made it very, very clear with the blessing of the, by the administration. but how fidelity is will continue. so what's george the day after this? um law in, um the uh, the fighting. what happens? so that's a really good question. i don't think anybody has exactly the answer. i'm so i'm asking you to kind of, you know, but i have the lines of my feeling is that given the very new emotional response on the bought of these radius to the hostage release. and those are just the 2 more days of these. um uh, release us to come, i think is going to be very difficult to go back to the um, the, the same mass bombing and destruction that was prevalent before the, the, the,

the exchange because i hear something these republic good will stand that. and then there are still some 200 hostages left a, these right, he's one of the release. i mean they, they, they, the very, very distressed about it. and they've already been, uh, you know, these mass demonstrations, even yesterday in israel, demanding that the remaining of hostages be released. so i dentist saying that, um, yes, this is ro will resume uh, its bombing and is disruptive campaign. but i think that it's going to gradually winded down i think that's um it's, it's difficult for them to, for the government to sustain this public support. they losing if they've gone completely lost the whatever international support that they have um, even the by the ministration has become exasperated as well. so i did this thing, but it will gradually be wound down and then they'll be more of these um,

pauses and um, hostage exchanges uh, down the road before. finally uh, some, some kind of a ceasefire as cobbled together. well, that happens over here that, that, that in itself is also very difficult to say. well, not a martin during all this more and more uh, got is, is uninhabitable. they just, you can't live there. there's no infrastructure at all to the, to sustain existence here. but i, i think i'm actually think the, the, the, the israelis will, with, with great fervor will continue. the operation may be less so on the ground, but certainly the bombing because more than one thing that's not only does october 7th, mean a lot to a lot of people in israel fair enough. but having to have to negotiate with how much this is. this is really, really difficult for them. okay. because when i mentioned earlier on the 2nd day of

the exchange, there was a hiccup here in the know and, and it was some us saying, oh, you're not fulfilling the agreement. so, you know, and that, that's infuriated, and i think that, you know, when you know, when this 4 day exercise comes to an end, i think the israelis going to have just as much fervor and anger and their demand for revenge. and whatever the costs you georgia, you're right, they don't have any international subordinates. so what the biden administration is behind is the expect thanksgiving speech that they even didn't. yeah. who gave ok basically whatever it takes. so i'm very pessimistic martin. i'm also very pessimistic is, well, i think i'm missing how to come back after the sci fi with o'denza blazing. i was thinking it actually intensify the campaign to, to make his point. there's a couple of issues here. festival, his own support is dwindling rapidly. i wrote an opinion piece, i think of to one week say how long has missed me. i got um i, i'm not putting myself on the back from my proceedings, but i think he hasn't got long home, i think is an awful lot of his really is

a wondering where he said, there's no way we're going to vote for this coalition again. and, but nothing knows and popularity is plummeted. so there's pressure on him at home. but i think internationally, it's the key internationally. there are too many western leaders who on the one hand buying the drum and say, is realize every right as into sales. but on the other hand, i'm looking at the numbers of people in london, an, an american and dc, and around the world and thinking how much longer we got politically, if we don't do something about the seats for, you know, so you have spain and those them who were to come out and really faced the campaign for us. these for immediate recognition on morris and media recognition of a police new state, if one or 2 of the e and my mistakes joined them, which i guess they will assume outputs. and that's known as campaign on a stop watch. and he may, will be thinking, like, are we done a 7 week, something like that? um, can we do another 7 or 8 weeks? i'm get another 15000. they'll say, it probably isn't 15000 foot of all,

it may will be 30 or 40. we just don't know who's, who's on the rubble, you know, but he's probably thinking he needs to intensify this because he thinks that he can bring almost to his needs and he can give that victory. that the unconditional surrender. but another factor to this is that he wants to not let inside probation anyway. well that, that will say, that's the point martin in, in the end i throw it back to george here because, you know, we, the biden is saying, you know, he supports israel's, a goal of eliminating come out as well. so far as i am concerned, that's just code for eliminating the palestinians. george well i, i don't know. um the, uh, the item in this ration has um said what we will not accept will not accept uh, re occupation of guys of israel. uh, we will not accept uh, estimate a cleansing um and uh, but all of those things are happening. well, um, nothing is happening except that isn't and they may need another permanent basis.

and then ultimately then what is, is real good. you can go on doing. i mean, yes, i can go on uh on the pointers disruptive, crazy. but they're not going to succeed in driving out the palestinian population minutes. and it's clear that egypt is not going to go along with a jordan is not going to go along with it. the by the administration isn't going to go along with the so, you know, he can go on doing this. but these really public, i think, is getting very wary of this and after that and you know, they're obviously very hostile towards a net in the apple. yeah. he's, he's politically, he's done. um, but they want the hostages back. i mean, at this stage, you know, the little there was the feeling is what get we've made a point, but we want that. we want the hostages back and, and then the, the idea that we're just going to go on bombing and bombing. and then these people say, well where, where are hostages? i just don't think that's going to happen. so, you know, this is the path of all these previous, um, what we call this of moving the law and exercises, you know,

is ro promos away. and then finally, when, when you know, they haven't really achieved anything very much, oh they, they call it a day and then just kick the can down the road. so you know, the next guy and. yeah, but, but martin, this is qualitatively and quantitative. believe this, this exercise of moving the lawn is a different magnitude. i mean totally different magnitude. and as i have already mentioned, the parts of the gaza strip now are completely uninhabitable. the, the, the, the cost and then you'll have to remember the kate is gonna continue. so, um, uh, you know, i, i tend to think that there is this kind of messy on the urge push that they want to destroy as much as possible. but you may not be, might not be bombing them anymore, but you, there's, there's no way to, to, to live. okay. and considering being these railways have been very stingy about aid coming in. um i, i think this is this being an ethnic cleansing by different means martin,

but i don't think that can continue the blockade of age. i think that would be a huge critical point. you know, took a iran cut a countries that really, really, really angry with this route and this in yahoo. and they are literally frosting at the mouth until he's been having a number of meetings with the run. you know, we comp mess with turkey. you just comp mess with that size on me. is that disciplined on me? you know, which is and they to remember, we can't afford to go down that road. but i think those countries will demo. and when the, when the dust settles, they will adopt because they will basically rebuild in a couple of years old of those problem blogs or those institutions arise everything . and what would this role do then? you know, i mean, i think it'd be a question here, going back to the, to the, to the 66 weeks, or 8 weeks or can, you know, do another run and he's done. i think that the clock is really ticking and i think it would be countries like cuts and took a who will actually put pressure on through back channels. the button

administration and the a you, i'm more a members days to say low enough is enough. let us now build the 2 state solution. we will come to guys and we will build and then you know, we haven't got any situation that will the full that nothing you know, you can play with now he's pushed himself into a cool one. anybody? the other thing is, is a israel, i mean a little of his raise, a lot of humble is ready to begin as well as themselves. how do we continue up to this? how do we function? we were an internationally plugged in the country to the rest of the world. you know, how do we explore goods? how do we trade? how do we, there was so much. i'm a, i'm girls. there is so much um, well yeah. okay. yep. fair enough. martin j but you know what, how many of these countries have cut diplomatic relations with israel? okay. where is the, um, the uh, oil embargo is george has mentioned in the past. okay. uh, there's a lot of anger, but i mean, when it comes to policy, i still think there's a lot of weakness, particularly in the air bro, george, as we finish up this, a part of the program here. how does by move,

move forward. i mean he is running for re election. we have um a 70 percent of young people polled. do not like his foreign policy. i think that's obviously what when and reference the gods. but i think some of this i'm excited with we ukraine as well. is a permanently stained by this really adventurous foreign policy of his well, i would like to think that that so and, and that's probably so, but there is one cavity as well that is that, um, you know, if with this, this come to an end, let's say within the next, um, well lets say something within the next 2 months it comes with it. so that takes us through to uh, january. you know, whenever we, we start the primary season. um, you know, what does the democratic body do in those circumstances? well, they do what they always do, which is, oh my god, if you don't go by the big bad, horrible orange man is going to come in. do you have to do everything you can do?

because both are buying me and all those young people who are not protesting about is the legal. are there any way you think i'm allowed from to come in the big orange man as a even bigger supporter? at least able supporter of israel as the by the ministration gentlemen going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion and some woman stay with our team. the boss can do either speak with key at the washington state. the most of the computer

guys has to phone and send 2 professional men video to you for the list of all but huge, but they use the a welcome act across the dock were all things are considered 9 people. now this is the home addition remind you we're discussing some real news the let's go back to georgia in the change gears here. the, the, you and i've been using about over the last few weeks on how the nature wants to become like, who do you need? you know, they want to be made a magicians. they want to come up with creative ideas. okay. and obviously i'm

making reference to ukraine after all, next year is the 75th anniversary of the alliance. they're all very, very proud of themselves. and even though it's completely failed to keep the peace in europe, but it's primary mission. and we've heard of these different ideas that, you know, you don't have to recognize that russia has a territorial control over the down bass to other regions and, and try me. and we'll just pretend they don't. okay? and you don't have to walk away from, we're just gonna pretend. and then you know, the old and tried tried and tire some policy. how about a no fly zone? okay, is it that's like an a new idea. okay. i mean, grasping at straws. but as the alliance goes up to its 75th birthday, you know, most people retire before 75, george, and that they may be, you know, the lines that'd be thinking about that too. okay. but they got to put a big i got to put some lipstick on this peg. george?

yes i see so well the yes, the 75th birthday party that's coming up next your life. i tend to think that need so cannot do what he did in vilnius last year, just to fall ukraine off with you know, you not a mean a bunch of meaningless words. and i've had on the head about, on my head, i have to do something to say that, hey, you know, we, we have accomplished something in ukraine and, and that's why i think of it is very significant. the those uh, i mean this is something we've discussed before. those 2 um articles that appear recently, you know, one by on this photographs, moves them to form and they just say for general, one by admiral james. the reed is the form of supreme allied commander is one of the 2 most senior people in nato. and the rose said, well, we can do it, we can actually but induct ukrainians and they,

so um and then we just present russian with the fed complete, are you ready to escalate and, and wage war against nature and russia has throughout this so several special know that your operation is showing great reluctance to extend the war and ukraine to any late. so tara trip. so i did this thing that, you know, they've given the leap, you know, this is the stature of these 2 oil says you have to say this is a stalking cause. and when they to made these previous mistake in 2008 is that instead of being public, we will bring the ukraine into the nature of that game, russia time to prepare an act. so what do you plan now? thinking in terms when we're not going to say it in public, we're just going to announce that this is done. we've gone and we've, we've been and gone and done. ukraine is now in nato, and there's nothing rusher can do about that. i think this will happen, but i do think that this is what they're thinking about. and i know that that,

that it is a really playing the ultimate game of chicken because martin. okay, what, what, what to say brussels does that, you know stilton burge, that's, you know, it's going to be his parting gift to the world. but there's where i said necessarily have to recognize it. it may, it may not, and it may continue. it's a operations in ukraine while the rest of the lions thing. so ukraine is a member, so i would throw the other way. so do you create a do nato countries want to actively get involved in the war against frustrated go cuts both ways. go ahead. bismark is just so many things wrong with it. you know, it has when you, when you think of these people you need. so you know, a acolytes with a problem you paint is rather like um, witnessing somebody standing over a sick dog beating it with a stick, you know, and the mo, the sick, the don't guess, you know, to the, how do they beat, hoping for magical solution. that's really the crazy thing miscalculation miscalculation layer,

upon layer. and this is just another one of those saw fetched ideas. you know, you're going to be going to pity the nato a lot. when they have that puts you in july, you know, what are they going to celebrate? and that's the problem. you've got ukraine, which is a spectacular failure. you know, and, and people are admitting it, it's not like people have been quiet, you know, a number of native leaders are actually alluding to this. americans are saying some of the most important people in the, in the, in the washington i'm swamp, are saying, is this a war that we can when we, you know, we're old enough, 3 of us old enough to remember. that was the rest of the week of the end of vietnam . well, he knows it's not, can we, when it is, you know, is it, is it, when it built on any level, any emotional level? of course it isn't. you know, i think there are a couple of points wrong with the form of data is the secretary general's idea. you know, the ukraine kind of have sort of semi membership off base membership of nate. so he actually said, you know, it's a cooler read that some once that was set. so once you crane would have this sort

of, um, special states as membership of nato rush, it wouldn't the inside of that point because it would be a talking and they so many, but they're already there. i know, but i think that's tied to the force as really thank you. you know, because again, united puts it doesn't put the emphasis on russia. it puts the emphasis then back again on the west, and they to states to do what if then russia attacks, it will be back on there. so the, to another point is the nature is not an institution that does state building and um, you know, it's very difficult to have really criminally blackwood corrupt the countries in it . you know, to set the level to set the standards towards countries like georgia, for example, you know, as byron to become a member member, a state of nature. so it doesn't do the unlike the e u that pretends does that nature doesn't build democracy in one of the, one of the big points, one of the, um, the, to, to, to join the nicer club. you're supposed to have a pretty clean slate on corruption and the levels of democracy,

even though it was in the us, it was less reported that some countries offered uh, you know, a get out of jail cod from for is it integrated bypass that rule in line in but i think the hardest bit to swallow of this is that in the document in that proposal, there was a suggestion, was that some, those regions that you were talking about would just be handed back to russia and forgotten about. and the problem with that of course is and that's can self. so this kid has bang the fist on the table so hard and so long and said that is not negotiable. that throws up. another question between now and july is if the nature policy is going to go ahead, could it go ahead without zalinski as well because the problem. yeah, yeah, it was a, that's exactly at george, but i'm, you know, going back to these, these nato plans, but they're not thinking in terms of security, say that that's again, nato isn't doing what it's supposed to be doing. thinking in terms of collective

security, what they're the this magical thinking and that's exactly what it is, is it increases in security for everybody involved. me is doing exactly the opposite of what it was designed to do. george? well that's, that's all they do is raise on the trip. we talked the other day about this a board at prices. there's just been manual to that of sitting there when school and, you know, here has been the, you know, no, no problems, adult, 77 years now is your nato alone bill that there's a border crisis with the russia. so you don't need to be, you know, is the, you know, it has to justify its existence and therefore it has to continue to manufacture the prices that he then presents itself as the solution towards video. now in this case of um, the inducting uh nato, infecting your brain into nato on the slide. it would probably go together with some kind of a, a, an honest so now let's just let,

let's stop fighting for the time be. so leave aside this, the roughly will accept this, but if it goes together with that is a, we're not actually accepting these there, which is a loss. and that the now bother from russia. we just will stop by doing for the time being, you know, ally, you know, korea, you know, vietnam. oh so you know, at the time of the geneva conference in the fifty's and this is the way americans often operate, which is, well, nothing is just settled. we'll leave it into the future. and then of course, make nato can the stop this whole thing up all over again. yeah, i mean, you really quick. so it appears what appears to be in play here is that they just can't utter the words we lost. okay? so martin, they basically is this, they, you know, just to it just enough to keep the lights on. okay. i mean, just the know, you know, that's what or whatever it takes means now is do we keep, we pay their bills, we keep the lights on and we,

we could keep up the rhetoric. but at the there's essentially they just, they is essentially accepting defeat just not saying martin, but how long does that go on for, you know, i don't, i don't think for that much longer. i think we'll get to the punch you in july before number of commentators, a number of member states will start say, and that something has to be done. so we have to be done about ukraine and quickly because nato itself as a credibility problem. you know? so to get this, not since the beginning of the world, you know, nato is had a fresh shot of new life, you know, injected into it. the ukraine will gave it a new identity, you know, following up from, from a microns brain, dead comment. i think that before that i don't believe that. i don't think that's still the case. i think the big of the home before. and if you're setting yourself up to be a huge international security operation, but you're afraid of funding one bullet. i'm sending one man to the front line and

i'm just touching and dr. ducking every waving all through weaving. so every possible different magic sopa so that you don't guys will, and that you just play the escalation code, everything every now and again. and you know, but at some point we're going to look for escape goods, you know, between now and july. and so let's start with the big escape there is, he's been, he's having a pressure put on him by some people in congress to hold elections next. a say no, no, this is a wrong time for elections. you know, i mean, like messing yahoo, you know, there's a, there's a link that like disney i, these are both lead to is that know if they went to the post today they wouldn't win. so, um, you know, if there was a sudden the, it isn't as he is still a puppet of the, but the ministration for as long as by and decides, you know, this is wonderful cartoon mem created on the social media of one of the blinds and putting his hand on the shoulder of those lensky as lensky is looking up to him, look into the boy saying, um, but use it until the end. and, but in the system,

this is the end as well. actually, i think we're going to reach that point between now and july, my, my $0.50 my crate again is so tray of bread putting batch is the zalinski is going to be edged out of power. i think before those celebrations can go ahead and share, but then what is the value of of need? so for ukraine, i mean it's a big so you know, some magical way george they get in. so is, is the, the 52nd airborne going to start bombing russia? i mean, none of this makes any sense. let's go ahead the last, last 15 seconds, go to the bottom. the ministration has invested a great deal. and so therefore, i don't think that just gonna let go of it. i just thought that's all the way the americans offer it. and so let's gives a useful person. and then you know, you the, you know, he's a jewish as they keep or binding us. so, so if you're okay and you're no longer have the alibi about be the will the nazis into you? i think why would you rather than so if you don't have

a jewish present and then you know yourself, okay. it's supposed to be, i, again, i'm a token is a mean american foreign policy for the food that's all the time we have jonah and then went to take my guess, americans and in budapest. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here already. so you next time, remember across top roles, the as a result online, it was can be started by line. these can be standard by turn. the importance of we can never be of a station,

so that transparency is extraordinary. john mystic, patrice then just succeeded in finding documents that existed in making them available to the world public. i mean, what could be more moving back by publishing information and sharing information with the public. he was exercising the right to free speech. he did so in the public interest. hogwash, this or mom realized tends to me and golf and, and honestly, to relate continuously. i know why advice may assume that no one who is the guy that illegal anymore wisely voltage us it's for to be on box weighing a 175 used to go through the sentence. all we're going to let that stay the, the

is footage of the full screen for hostages to be released by how us arriving black on soil. cars are, says an agreement that has been leach with as well. i'm how much to extend the current fees via for another 2 days that hadn't been due to supplant on monday. the sides is still not in the west bank because proud of people waiting for the release of the next move of the kind of seeing prisoners find supplies under these very authorities of all their attacks on the other will continue off of the truth. it surprised us wildly plans to allocate filings the new and give settlement in the west by the.