the, the, the, these real religious footage of the fulton group of hostages to be released by him by surviving back on homeless file. and good size says that a grievance has been reached with ease within him last week. stand the current c 5 for another 2 days. it has been due to expire and a monday detention center in the west bank is crowds of people waiting for the release of the next group of policy. and presidents fed 5 to tie as in this piece at these riley authorities vowed their attacks on gas that will continue after the truce expires. and that's while the plan to allocate funds for new jewish supplements in the west bank. well those are the headlines this

our large engine national will bring them. busy in our next is going underground that these episode focuses on the courses of the spiraling weld on the crisis. the i'm option or can see it welcome back to going underground. broadcasting all around the world from do by we will bleed is touching down for the you in climate change conference starting this thursday, comp 28 because i mean it's in the legend u. k. u, as you nation back to genocide in the region, leaving hundreds of thousands hungry to night in gauze. if today we have a world full of surplus food and people are still having with tens of millions in the usa for us to rely on federal aid age. what happens when climate change

exponentially increases? wildfires, floods and droughts all around the world with me in washington dc is the us government school. i'm a chief economist at the department of agriculture and a senior research fellow at the international food policy research institute. dr. joseph clover. thank you so much for coming on. so varied figures but around but maybe 830000000. they're going to go hungry to night. more and more than enough food for everyone in the world to eat. what would you have done that the reason food for them in rome, if you was still the u. s. department of agriculture is chief economist what you've sort of shows you that the yeah, i don't, i think these problems are beyond the chief economist, somebody i, you have to remember that something like 60 percent of the world's hunger is people are in there is where there's conflict right now, and so that's, that's a very difficult saying. you're talking about much, much bigger problem and their sense of war is going on. you know, we've, she,

there's all refugees, all sorts of personal calamities that are again, hunger is part of that. i mean, daily it is, but you, if you were there, the department of agriculture for 30 years, i'll be, is the, the countries that are listed by your institute and, and others as the risk of the widespread, the universal famine. they're all on the military attack or military intervention from the united states. i mean, what do you think is the at the agriculture department? i mean, if we can go to the, i guess i don't ever, i don't take your point. i what countries in particular you're talking about hunger ciriani tube, your have dentist on human somalia, syria garza, i suppose. yeah, i was, i or i wouldn't necessarily point the finger at the us on that, but uh if that's your opinion, that's fine. but really i, i'm asking you, what do you think about the connection between food and that violence,

the weapons trade? oh yeah, no question. absolutely. i'm, i, i, that as, again, as i said, it is one of the major causes of hunger. because, you know, when you look at hunger is really boils out to availability on the one hand in affordability, on the other. and unfortunately, poverty and hunger or go hand in hand, best or tragic part of all this but, but the bigger problem in some areas is just availability, particular income areas where there's conflict and, and that's what we've seen is there's big search over the last 10 years and the number of hungry people, and there's been an areas like this. so how are the countries that you mentioned and again, is, is totally exacerbated by war. and yet the recent headlines have sent it on say the black sea green initiative, or the indian uh, number smart the rice export regime is to, to buy the indian government. so i'm going to be increasing before these 2 issues

raised there. sure, sure. but, but prices play a big role here, and when you have actions taken by governments, the exacerbate food supplies for, you know, jeopardize food supplies that has an impact on, on, on, on crisis. and because of that it makes, or, um, it seems like rice and wheat and other things less affordable for those. what do you, you know, import those products. you are reading of the black sea green initiative because we had someone from the oakland assist you to told us that the next to the next to no impact on poor country is just 3 percent of the ukraine. food went to poor countries. it was a more of a propaganda weapon in this war in, in ukraine then act. oh no i, i guess i think that's totally false. i mean that's like this. yeah. well, you can, it's a supply 10 percent of it was week something like 13 percent of the world's core

and before the war. that's been um, you know, but unfortunately they're now producing 35 percent less than what they were doing pretty more. as a result of more and that's less we in the world market, that's less corner of the world market. you know, in terms of, we're the, we went in one sense, it is almost a material because what those supplies mean for the rest of the world is lower prices and lower prices are felt by every country in the world. so yes, there, there was some we did go to africa through the world food program. a lot of, uh uh, we went to north africa and in the mid east, you know, traditional buyers of u claim we, but right now there's almost nothing coming out of the black seas. and their production is it's, uh, yeah, it's been reduced by 3040 percent. so i mean that's, that's the reality of the war. and you might argue that that's not, it doesn't have an impact, but i, i would argue longer term it has a certainly has an impact. because if there is another shortage somewhere else in

the world, you'll see prices jump again a big time. but the un themselves only said 3 percent went to those countries and prices of being more historically low as to why. but, but what do you think the, what do you think the market for you claim wait was before the war in sub saharan africa? it hazard a guess. i mean, it was, it wasn't tell, it is not one of their big is one of their big markets. you know, the really about cents. but then why was it sold to us is, it is about all about oil supplies is all about one supplies and supplies, or when do we have less suppliers on way? marcus, you have higher prices, and that's why you have problems in, you know, with poor countries when there is an affordability issue in terms of buying grain here. but clearly tony blinking at the state department wasn't saying that he would say, ukraine is

a fundamental part of cups are in africa and dependence on food. and this is what we're hearing from nato capitals. well, i guess you're talking about higher prices, you know, a, we're in the end today which will be by the actual flight exports from ukraine. yeah, i do have a in the, i'm just saying that the ukraine, a switch shipped, they're very important for, embodies north africa. they shift a lot of weight in the past asian markets. they, they ship some of the sub saharan africa. and what we saw last year is the sub saharan africa i had last week. you know, they were down about 11 percent and some of that was due. the fact that last week was coming out of the black sea and, and the fact that we prices were so high in the 1st half of the year. yeah, i mean, we have it for manual is that it was actually something benefiting big agri business. how difficult is it being a senior research fellow at the international food policy research institute?

because you are funded by moscow funded by washington. you're funded by k b, m g, which is lucky martin consulting the company. i mean that deals with raphael and how, how does an institute like us remain independent when we have a weaponized at the moment and research on how food systems work is so weaponized? yeah, i think you'll, i think you'll find and talking to people that the general impression of the work that my colleagues do is very a jet objective. the very i have your right. i've been funded by over my current a short time there. i've been funded by a lot of different countries, a little bit from the us, but mostly from europe and from other other countries around the world. and essentially to look at issues like trade to look at food security issues and to look at, at the market analysis,

which was my former job was tracking markets around the world uh at the department of agriculture. you do take the one of the most fundamental reasons for global hunger is how pressure global south countries are to privatize the land and inevitably creates all the goc power that the ends up with their food being exported. instead of being fed to that populations, you know, i don't, i don't think that's an issue. i think improving productivity around the world is, is very important. and that's, you know, that's true in the poorest countries of sub saharan africa is true. it's true in the big export and countries like australia or europe or the us. um, we have a serious challenge or the next several years to feed a growing population and a population that is um, you know, uh, facing climate change and other things that, that are really important. and that's going to mean, you know,

countries around the world need to improve productivity. yeah, we heard from progressive under the shiva on this uh, program. people can watch our interview with their own. rumbles saying actually productivity was much higher before the incoming huge crop companies. they destroyed productivity. i understand your institute is also funded by crop life international, which is represents b a s i one is i don't know what i, i don't know what crop weiss if there is much funding that comes from them. most of the funding comes from there on your website and the major fundamental. and so you can get into the, i'm the productivity of crops you believe is helped by these big multi nationals that clearly have an interest in making those countries dependent on. i think there's a as well we also support our are other centers like center that, that have public research for on, on wheat varieties that have been shipped to all around the world. are you there?

yes, there are private developers for things like mays and story b, as in particular. but we've seen an enormous productivity gains. i don't understand the point of, of, you know, you refer to this other study because that certainly is contrary to anything that we have. right now we've, we've shown, i mean, when you are at the department of agriculture is during that period. the china broad, 800000000 out of poverty. clearly with the will be at some small scale farming, but under a large democratic controls right up to be ging. tonight 40000000 in the united states will stop without federal aid. annual food snap program does not show a stock contrast about food security. how did that happen? it's is, unfortunately, there weren't changes in government or in the, in the social safety net in the ninety's that took away

a lot of the income support, replaced it with a whole suite of programs. and we right now we have a food stamp program that is roughly a $142000000000.00 annually is provide supplemental nutrition assistance to families in need. and the projections are over the next 10 years. if those will run those outlays. we'll run around a $120000000000.00 a year. yeah. but oh, you mentioned aid of and federal aid, the changes in the ninety's. but i mean, obviously the point is not to be building out a to 2 people is a itself sufficient? no, absolutely. no, no, no, absolutely. i mean this is, these are big structural issues that the us has done poorly. i would, i would argue, i mean we just, we have persistent part poverty, particularly in rural areas, are in urban areas, but also in rural areas as well. and you have families that have been generations and poppy, and those are not things to be proud of. i would agree. and did you see it coming

when you were in the development of agriculture? cuz as i say, a different, you can always this new like, this is new if i were to go, if i were to go back to 1998, when we, when, when i was at the department of air holding, we initiated the survey. we had 12 percent of families in prison, food and secure households, you know, is down marginally suspense. so your point of making very little progress. i think yes that's, that's certainly a problem, but this is something that the, the us are certainly we've been tracking or the us department of agriculture has been tracking for many years now at least is getting better. i don't control the globe or i'll stop you there. more from the us government department, chief economist at the department of agriculture and that senior research fellow at the international food policy research institute. after this break, the,

[000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the

1918, the countries of the west won the final victory over the ottoman empire. the sultan's government capitulated to the inside and sign that humiliating armesis, upload grove great britain and france. and italy wanted not only to destroy the ottoman empire, but also to divide the prime orderly turkish lands among themselves. in 1919, their armies began to land on turkish territory. but the west decided to choose greece as the main striking force. seeking to make others realize this aggressive plan. for an intervention, provo mass, indignation among the turkish peoples. the national liberation struggle was led by the experience of general mustafah come all as a 3rd in order to bear down the enemy,

a bank on the mobilization of the nation. and the alliance with russia, which acted as a united front, with turkish patriots. at the end of august 1922, the 3rd army won a decisive victory over the invaders in the battle of doom living art. and within a month liberated all asia minor from them, the impressive success of the circus army force the west to make concessions. in 1923, the loss on these treaty was signed turkey. one of the 1st countries in asia managed to defeat the colonial empires and defend its independence. becoming an example for in the millions of via press on the planet. the welcome back to going on the garden. i'm still here with the senior research fellow at the international food policy research institute, dr. joseph glover,

joseph. so we were talking about the systems of, of, of food and the above of the, in the united states. what about the, what's really being in the news lately, which is about this india and on this multi rice ben. why? what is your understanding of why and is doing it in any way as well? hey, you have to look at this in perspective. india has their rice production has, has increased substantially over the last 15 years back and in the early, 2, thousands, you know, they were probably about 5 percent of the world market. they're now 40 percent of world exports come from india. they've been very important and for a number of countries are now a race supplier for many, many countries, both in asia, but also in africa, sub saharan africa, west africa. i'm a yeah. so the, the, the, the, at least the way the,

the indian government has articulated the band is that there they have concern about food insulation. and food prices or rice prices have been high in india and like they have been, are all around the world. and they have more above it, even the whole of services are in africa put together in india. they have poverty. yes, that's true. they also have more rights to they have a surplus rice in their, their, their country. they have plenty of rice to feed their population. that's not an issue. i think um, uh, but the more the government is rice isn't the only thing. they have a ban on onions. they have a ban on a, they've had a ban on we last year. so this is all, you know, it's no surprise the government is up for re election or they will stand for general elections next year. they want to keep good prices uh you know, or to try to keep a lid on insulation whites a lot of countries i might, yeah, i mean, inflation has been food inflation. it has been, you know, in the high double digits for many countries around the world,

including western economies, including the us, including the, you know, it doesn't matter. we're actually on that subject. why is, why is food inflation so much higher in western europe that in the global south countries have well, one reason for the very good. yeah. yeah, there's a good reason for that. is that the, i know this is this. i think i use the fact that a lot of people don't appreciate it is the fact that most of the costs are retail food comes after it leaves the farm. so if you look at the price of bread, the week in that brand is only about 5 percent of the value. so all these other costs afterwards, things like labor costs springs like energy costs, you know, to transform the middle of the wheat into flower, to transform that flower into bread, to get that on grocery shelves, all that costs money. and those are been things that wage rates have been up and a lot of western economies, we've seen very, very high energy costs. so that is across the board is, you know,

is the oil. it's like, tricity is other things. all these things have added to processing costs and costs a big increase in um, retail, food. there's more likely to be the loss of the north stream pipeline. why then in mainstream media? so call the they always talking about of food supply and farm supply. when it comes to hi, i agree, are you, you raise a great, great point. i have to read the press interviews. people have done with me. i always point out to him that most of costs come after the, the found and, and some of those. if you look at the retail price in, in uh, a more developed developing economy that those, those margins typically are less. that is there, there may be less processed or things, but it is, is still true. there are 2 there getting, for example,

getting green in from the court to inland markets that all costs money. and that's where we see big inflation for a lot of countries plus the exchange rate. um, you know, commodities are old uh denominated in dollars typically. so if you put those in local currencies, look at egypt, for example, we prices in egypt or in the church and around, you know, or at hot, was there a continued to be a very, very high levels. whereas world prices are generally come down to being below right now roll pre war levels. so and clearly until the dollarization, the dollar is a refuge in that case. but these don't listen to it. it's a, is it a question of the fact that the food policy is weaponized, you must have come across that into department of agriculture. how food policy can be weaponized and how, whether it be protectionism or whether it be as part of military intervention. i mean, we only have to look at sanctions,

regimes in both by the united states and countries. and so the salvation iraq, obviously when you were at the department of agriculture to see how weaponized the subject can be when it find the filters. i yeah, i don't, i mean look, you're, you're talking about in one sense, i mean 0 conflating words, which i think again, i think we're both in agreement wars or bad things or populations. they really create enormous problems or a poverty they talk cause problems with hunger but in terms of a good price is just the relationship between food prices and underlying farm prices are important. costs of there's a lot of costs that have nothing to do with the found sector to have everything to do with what's going on with the rest of the economy. do you happen to join this on it? it's where are they getting this information by fair or no i, i just, i think the journalist have a hard time understanding that i, you know, i, i find the most of the conversations. i have people say,

huh. i didn't know that i didn't realize that you didn't explain it relatively soon if well, hi, it's complex in the sense of do you try it under, you know, you've tried to sort through those, those costs, but you know, the value of food at home, consumed in the us is around 25 percent on the average. if you look at total source, so including the food consumed away from home, it's less and you know, it's about 13 percent. if you look at, consumed away from home is like 5 percent because you, you have to pay everyone in the restaurant everything else. so those are complexities the, just a pilot got arguably. i mean, why don't they also understand interestingly, i mean, you were again, you were probably at the department when the so called the natural family needs the hope you're a good leading to live a eritrea now has full food security. why is it that a country which is closed off like that as for food security,

or say contact me on the present, i think there's a country that doesn't have a conflict going on. i mean, i, i can look this, this is, i don't think this is all tarkey is, is necessarily the yes or all tarkey works very well as long as you're having yields that you're producing enough to feed your population. unfortunately, a lot of these areas are also in areas with a very highly variable rainfall. highly variable yields and the fact is they, they have um, you know, when they have big browser production shortfalls, they need to import and they, they need, they need a sure and they're trad, doesn't, there is available for as i know. and i didn't. yeah. when it comes to talk to us, because yeah, we simply can talk about about q, but isn't the plain peer, then the privatized food systems encourage scarcity to increase profits? it's no, i wasn't, i would agree with. i would disagree. i would strongly about that. i think the that if you look at, i, you know, great case of what is what happened with the ukraine. ok, so here you had

a country, again, supply and 10 percent of the world's. we are all of a sudden shut off entirely in those early months of the war with big markets like egypt and others, trying to find food. i think the market worked extremely well, but that most of these countries were able to source food from other suppliers and those are private trade that so essentially then which case, why was we not much cheaper for all that time when? when the previously you had 10 percent of the week that wasn't in the market. i think i told you this is, this is the basic economics of supply and demand. if you take 10 percent of the weight off the market because of blocking the ukraine from the rest of the market, so we prices will go up. in fact, i would argue that in the early months, the war there was concerned that russia wouldn't be able to export. we and rushes, another major market that cause we prices to spike, you know, to record levels. and yeah,

but that always seem to be the surplus is behind the scenes, isn't that the point? because that helps the scarcity which increases the profits. why is there any hunger if the world has enough food? is a question of, i think the, the question is affordability, and the question is poverty. and if you see the progress that was made in countries like china, it seems to look at the progress that was made globally prior to the, you know, the last 5 years or so. you see that they marched hand in hand with improvements and income around the world that makes the food affordable. and that makes that, that the hunger is, tends to diminish in those things. now when you add conflict on top of the best, that just creates all sorts of additional problems that aren't easy to solve. but to me, the number one thing if, if, if i working with the, to,

to solve the problem with the consulate and, and i think we would see poverty diminished just like we have seen in places like era tree, us places you know, around the world as a hell where i lived for a couple of years. it's just a wonderful place. you know, but a, if you have more is going on, it's very, very difficult. because the how right region embracing different food systems as we speak. i mean that how dependent on the 10s of millions of people that rely on the federal aid. hi. how dependent on the on on what suddenly happens in the house of representatives in washington from day to day. i can, can suddenly as you know, it's not program, not sure. i know who your talk, barry you talked about farms? well i'm just saying is regards budgets and with the budgets a voted on an agreed in the house. uh yeah. i know. i mean, look,

that is right now the congress is totally dysfunctional and i think that's uh, a each huge concern. and it needs to be for how long is this house? and i mean, just even when you are at the department of agriculture and all these tens of millions of people's lives hung in the balance of if a budget was no i or if you look, if you're talking about foreign bill or the, the one is the the deadline, yes, the farmed o expired but, but farmers are covered this year under the, the old farm build. so the real question will be next year is planning. the decisions are being they, they don't have to have a farm bill by the end of the year, or have some extension of the current farm doing which, which could happen. but, but, you know, with the farmers you're talking about roughly there's us ga club. so it shows that the number is around 2000000 farms in the us. but if you look at the farms that are actually producing 85 percent of the production,

you're only talking about $300000.00 or so farms but, but yes, they are. a lot of them look to farm subsidies, but farm subsidies are a small part of their overall income. and in fact, i would argue as an economist, that these programs should be done away with dr. jones of global. thank you. thanks very much. and that's of, of the show will be back with the brand new episode on saturday. but until then came into my role as social media, if it's not sense in your country and had to add channel going, undergoing tv on mobile dot com to watch. and you and all the episodes of going underground. so you said that the book comes after the ceasefire. well, israel look for a way to end the hostilities or will it continue? is more of an i elation. also, next year, nato turn 75 years old,