most of the world, all to detroit and towards innovation to meet each other and talk about some of the big issues in the world today and how by coming together they can overcome them. we've been speaking to some of those young, sorry to shoot me an explaining why they think the congress in russia is so important. site does not have what is going to be found by anything. you know, we're all scientists, we needs to try and solve problems. i've been seeing a lot of things. yeah. some of the impressive research projects that are happening in my area also in all different areas. and what is impressed me is the workmanship of the displays that i'm seeing, the way the opponents into another interesting projects that show that russia is progressing in terms of the research and the science. and for me, that is inspiring, and i've seen a lot of the young, the scientist, which is what is most impressive. it's such a great even plus depaula and you're able to see. so many scientists come across and i think more than 30 countries have coming year,

so i'm meeting them in boston was so good. and i think of it typically like redirecting communities at all, not just enrollment. we're talking about ways we're talking about medicine, we're talking about. i agree. it's aspiring and this is really motivating as well. mostly for young sciences. when me, once it gets into science to come in witness, there's amazing, you know, the innovation at really results the science and all of those participants clearly impressed with the dazzling array of production technologies. the participants being here in salt chief over the last few days and of course, taking those contacts and those ideas that they come up with a back to the home countries i'm present to team will be hoping that by doing so, having these contacts with the russian sciences, it will be the story of a long and beautiful friendship between scientists across the was un here in russia

. well, that's the update this hour. you can check r t dot com for more updates of some of the stories we're following. i'll see you again the the hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, nato's ukraine proxy. war and russia should have never happened before the conflict . there were options a month into the complex. there were options to ended. the west refuse to negotiate now ending this conflict is proving most difficult. the cross talking ukraine. i'm joined by my guessing nichol. i petro in kingston. he is

professor of political science at the university of rhode island and in brussels. we cross the go, but carol, he is an independent political analyst, an author of my mazda, of an x pad manager in moscow during the 19 ninety's. i gentleman crosstalk roles, and i think that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate nichol, i recently wrote a very, very interesting article i thought, quite provocative in and, and compelling in many ways titled, what's next for ukraine? the outlines of a peaceful settlement. can you, if this is hard to do with television, it's better to do it in print, but can you give us the main con tours of what a peaceful settlement would be? but i think there is a general agreement among the analysts that this war is not going to be won by ukraine. greene therefore needs to seek a settlement on the outlines of this settlement were already reached in march and april of 2022. uh, and they basically uh,

boil down to an exchange of security for land. um the issue that remains of guaranteeing the, uh, the rights of, uh, with the russian minority, russian speaking minority in ukraine. and i think that can be done by hearing to the stipulations of the opinion constitution and should be made a requirement for you admission for you pray to which rush or by the way, according to president clinton has never objected. okay, but you know, gilbert, you know, as, as we are convening here, the wall street journal is running an article titled, you officials fear ukraine, military collapse. so a lot of this talk is kind of academic and no, no offense. the academics like our guest here. but the fax on the ground are,

are coming a pace, aren't they here? i mean, the, the if, if, and we see what's going on in the us congress that looks like the g o. p in the house is not in any rush to help out ukraine, which the ukrainians have admitted that they're completely dependent on western aid right now. so talking about a settlement is actually quite germane. go ahead gilbert. to talk about a settlement. is it entirely between washington in washington? yep. the there is the assumption that whenever washington gives a week and a come together um, but just gesture of its fingers, moscow will little day and will be pleased to be to be considered as a talking partner. not as crowds, nothing could be further from the truth. the histories we're discussing today has been virtually a daily subject of discussion on the talk shows that russian state television features 5 days, 6 days a week,

which are widely watched. and these talk shows have been to my estimation in the past few weeks, kind of going very much in line. but you can imagine is going on every time the russians in their apartment or, or josh is break. greg, with french, these are, these are the most important and topical questions. can there be a piece and should there be a piece whenever washington says, come hither the consensus that i see there's no way that for once. ok, full twice, but full speed times rush. it will not be full 3 times. and the notion that uh that that can be a supplement of uh, utilizing the terms of the, of the ukrainian constitution to protect. so the, the rights of minorities, which menard has, it's not just russian minorities, gary and the job of not is romanian minorities who are all treated to the same. uh,

a very crude terms, the, the russian speakers i've had experience with the, with the t you be able to enforce such demands on ukraine. that it did honor this constitution and honor the, the general rules of 4 of you main practices and use of proper freedom of expression, but education and so forth to his restless picking minority. no way. we've been through minutes to it brought us nothing. the you, itself is not proper enforcer of these rights is menard's within media. you the right. so just to look at the russian case, a russian speak minorities are trampled on and have been trampled on just before 2004 when the baltic states were admitted. everyone knew within that the, that the states or in strict violation of the rules within the d. u for emission based on the protection of minority as well as about gilbert gilbert. yeah,

you have to add on add on. i'll throw it to nikolai right now. is it, we've had this intense ukrainian ization of culture of language. i mean, and, you know, i, i don't, you know, what i could mention, you know, and kind of the band or not a vendor, right? idea all the g here, but only the last couple of new cycles. there are no russians speakers in ukraine. they don't exist. i mean, how do you deal with a government like that? okay. i mean, and, and it's all fueled on um, by western officials in money. i mean, if the problem is that i want peace as much as anyone else, i really do. but how do you talk to people like that? say there aren't any russians speakers and ukraine. it's absurd, nikolai. i agree with all the points made. and yet the outcome inevitably is the same. namely, that negotiated settlement will have to be reached. that doesn't mean that one side or the other cool doesn't claim victory. in fact,

the victory is most likely to go to russia, which means that the terms of settlement will be defined largely by russia. but never the less a settlement it'll be and it'll be a negotiated settlement with who uh, that's a matter that will no doubt of evolved over time whether zalinski is that person looks increasingly. but this is purely speculation, but it might not be we could speculate endlessly about who is replaced by might be it's likely that a success is to zalinski will do exactly with zelinski did to put our friend go and bought a friend, khadija his predecessor, which was which is to run out of the peace candidate. now at that point, uh uh, russia will still have to negotiate with terms of its settlement, assuming its victorious. and there will be, uh,

some sort of adaptations. and some sort of a queen pro, quote, in order to achieve rushes, security objective, that the important thing that is by far the most important thing is go back to gilbert in, in, in brussels, watching for us to go to the table right now. why? why, okay, because you know what restaurant is not interested in the go shading minutes 3. okay. so, and that's the west is always going to do that. nato is always going to do that by time until they could do it again. go ahead gilbert. first i'd like to ask, what do we mean by russia here, or you can produce an angle of i think my colleague, nikolai will, will find attractive. that is taking a lesson from literature and from, from the arts. the literature that i wanted to bring in, it's not great classics but russian classics to be precise laptop. so i the warranties, just total promo, the pro largest, maybe

a 100 pages long. and it deals with the question this very topical today. and it has to do with, with the very question you posed, peter, that is, who runs the show. is it the great man in history, readers who are making decisions that doesn't have great consequences for their countries in the world? or are they the, the, the expression, the implement, the tool my one might say of the national will. and here it says in the, in the west, it's assuming that russert means one man pushing the. busy know he's a tech date are we all know the dictators control everything that a 145000000 people under them to a cellphone. that is a carpet nonsense, but it's the kind of fairy tale that is the mainstream understanding of how the world works. it doesn't work that way, and russia, as it does anywhere, mr. pushing is did. in many respects, i helped formulate a russian policy. but he also was an expression of the role of the people and the

role of the people today and russia done. i mean, primarily the, the, the leads is very much against sitting down to table with anyone coming from from kids. because they, there is a, the, the quick question applies to to kids who runs the show. i don't think anyone believes that's the landscape ones the show or the sub usually would run the show or the restore, which wouldn't put rent would or so would would one the show. there is a group, a creek called of neo nazis, and the label isn't important. but there is a clique of people who for who, who are responsible for the quarter to february 2014, who are still calling the shots. and that's the issue for russia. how those people can be removed from power if there is to be a negotiated settlement. but let's take a step back. negotiated settlement, why it is, even on the bill. the article was last friday, which,

which was discussing a secret agreement between biting and shows that they would cut back on arms deliveries to ukraine and try to pressure mr. zalinski to that, to go to his people and to call for the well i'm but i'm sorry, i'm sorry gilbert. i'm sorry gilbert that that's his kabuki feet or i mean um bite and can call is it lensky right now? we've got a nickel. i call them right now and tell them what to do. i mean, i, i get and you know, nothing about ukraine without ukraine. this is all nonsense. it's, it's nonsense. go ahead. nikolai, as we can rely on all leaders, including the cranial leaders to struggle for their own personal survival share and their own interests. one of the leading opposition papers now managed outside of ukraine. but why is the red still in ukraine? is argued or pointed out. i should say that there been a, there's been

a great empower ization of ukraine, but at the very top's, people have managed very well and, and indeed are making money hand over fist through the system of brian. all right, we're good way that i want to go, i want to know what to do with corruption. after our break here, we're gonna have to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion. then you can stay with our to the only way, not comfortable with the product was are out there. so some of this, so basically of course we need the last name was name is read. those can,

will be used to be too much and we have some more more for someone who is this relationship to the the i look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except we're so charters at conflict with the 1st law show your mind. and just in case we should be very careful about our personal intelligence. the point obviously is to create a trust rather than fit the various job. i mean with the

artificial intelligence we have summoning the theme and the robot must protect this phone. existence was on the welcome x across software. all things are considered. i'm peter to about your mind you were discussing. you train the, let's go back to nikolai and kingston. i'm like, let's finish up on this point on corruption because this is something that, you know, in the very beginning i war and very, very clearly this is, you know, you're only making it worse, the corruption in ukraine and it was very bad. and, but prior to the conflict that was, that was a talking point. ukraine's one of the most corrupt countries in the world. and then for about a year,

you couldn't say it. and then suddenly could start saying that because they really weren't getting their money is worth meaning the, the tax payers in the west here. um there's going to be a reckoning with that. i mean, i've often surmised that even if there is a settlement, there's going to be a lot of people being held account or should be held accounting ukraine. where does that all that money actually go? a well, we'll probably never know for sure, since even the pentagon can't do them. they can't even do an audit plus out here. but i did want to get to the, to reiterate the point that there will be negotiations between moscow and ukraine for any settlement of this war, for any ceasefire, for any armistice. any step along the way will require negotiations. and i have little doubt that people will step for whether they want to or not,

whether simply because the field of people above them has been abandoned and everyone else is less than they are, the only ones left to hold the bag. nevertheless, there will be people with whom these negotiations will be undertaken. of course, they will be in a week or position because they will, to the extent that they're interested in reaching any accord with russia. they will be abandoned by the west. and as a result, they will have little choice, but to concede to russia's demands my warning, however, drew rushes that we all have something to lose here. okay. it is quite possible that russia will push too far demand too much for even too quickly into territories that it really does not want in your brain. and therefore opening its itself up to counter strikes and moves and more military stalemate. so there's danger on all sides to be aware of. that's such a good point in. um, i think you might, i,

i'm pretty sure both of you read an article written by john mearsheimer recently. and then he comes to what kind of settlement will it be? well, he believes that like, we all do, that russia is going to win, but it will be an ugly piece, which i thought was a very interesting way of describing it. gilbert, i don't, i don't think that a rush. it has maxima list views here of, but the speed of the, the word is already been mentioned on this program, it will solve a lot of problems. finally, take seriously rushes, security demands the rest of it. believe it or not, can be a detail, just details, but brush who wants it security respects it. and i think from that point, if things could actually um, and reasonably easily, and magnanimously gilbert of the 4 times magnanimously, they would have 3 people up to us on the green and on the us side too. and i don't see it, such people exist, but i didn't get

a chance to quite finish the remark about the bills article the they have agreed that if you claim cannot hold up consent and entrance negotiations, then they would be content with the pros and cons. but the idea of approach and conflict has been floated united states repeatedly over the last month or 2 and it so, and it's dealt with as if it's a natural thing to happen because we all know that they are at an impasse and that's no one has won the war. well, that observation is strictly one of the of the washington line. it doesn't the correspond to reality on the ground. and it has the needs that are behind it. the concept, what's words about which is no way to take someone took out rushes own definition of the subject is not america's definition, but what is subject to should be its own definition of objectives are to destroy the ukrainian harm forces and not to cease territory. this is not a territorial war from the russian perspective. and from their perspective,

they are winning the wonderful because they are in fact destroying demand power reserves of ukrainian army. so they would be content i believe, with a frozen conflict, but not the that's not, that's a point. good washington thinks it will take. the frozen conflict from the muscular perspective would be one in which russia takes a guess, a moves up to tries ministry and closes the ukraine from the black sea essentially leaving the country a handicapped. it's not a failed states to fall into the hands of b. u. and to be massively subsidized forever by the you that would suit russia find . the main issue, as you have said repeatedly, is that the russian security and that will depend not on assigned the street is simple, depend on the facts on the grounds that's ukraine's borders. a sufficiently far that ukraine's military potential is sufficiently handicapped is that the west is

perfectly understanding the attempt to install the missiles and other other military equipment threatening. the russia will be leach with the response that is devastating, perhaps not just on ukrainian territory, but back in germany or whatever else this equipment is coming from. so russia will look after its own security that doesn't need a security guaranteed uh from the united states. so you, you to protect itself. well, i mean, well, well, you know, you in security doesn't happen in a vacuum. and this segue is perfectly to where i want it to go. nikolai has the 3 of us. i very rationally and i think, compassionately, and will all of us want this to come to an end. they stop the killing, but you know, we have um, next year, the 75th anniversary of nato. okay. and they're coming up with, you know, little magical ideas. how that kind of twist and turn and you know, we can slip them in this way. slip them in that way. i mean it's quite grotesque.

okay. because we even stilton bird. the hit the secretary generally admitted off the counselor by mistake. i don't know that yes, nato expansion was the origins of this conflict, but they're still talking about nato expansion. i mean, what, what, where do these people come from and what do they want to achieve? well, they to has the purpose of expanding nato. ok. okay, there you go. that's their, that's their mission, right? yes. okay, well it says it suffices for survival and funding but i think of a rump ukrainian stage without an outlet to the black sea would leave a territory that is sizable attached to nato.

and that wouldn't be real honest just in nature, and that wouldn't be dangerous to russia in perpetuity is one of the reasons when 196016, why prime minister of the law of a said we should not annex galicia in a memo to sar nicholas the 2nd because we would not gain anything from it. and one of the wisest things i've read is that russia has no interest culturally historically. or in terms of security, a 2 x regions that do not want to be part of it or could not reason a reasonable amount of time be pacified and, and, and with the majority would not be comfortable being part of russia. and i'm afraid that much of western and even now central ukraine falls into the category that territory and its relationship to russia. add to the,

the end to europe. that still has to be negotiated. and that is, in fact, the central point. they will have to be negotiated in any larger pioneer p and security arrangement, which should be at this point already. insight as part of our objectives. well, what we just heard from nichol i is possible, but if that's the goal that they want to achieve. well, i got a i, i differ slightly with you, but i think at the end of the day rush, it has that security interest at heart. that's it's number one issue here. how that is translated into policy and dealing with the neighborhood can go in different directions here. but i mean, i'm not sure nato is interested in security in europe the. and now the difference is now, is that russia is the official enemy, remember they? oh, where does a defensive alliance? what watches bottom, you know, our enemy hold all that is changed right now and rush. it has to keep an eye on nato, considering its already expanded during this conflict. go ahead gilbert. the most

expensive nature that we've seen since the admission of the bowls exchange has been counter productive for the security of europe. i think that my i used to correspond very closely with steve collins. and he was saying that nato is not a fraternity club. but the university is the idea of admitting new members should be conditions on one question. will this increase or decrease the security of the existing members? that is passively clear to just if it became a actionable only several years after the fact that emitting the baltic states was a big negative for security of the existing members. so is true or for admitting of finland, but as 1200 kilometer long border. this to be defended by a population of 9000000. it's absurd. it can only be a detract, detract from the security of europe. now,

i don't think the russians would be to put out if the display to them brought into it a rug. uh ukraine, that is some distance from, from where you're creating and borders were. yeah. before oldest this war began in the, the fact that that brussels would be controlling the other was insane. people running ukraine has preventing them from, of triggering a pan. you repeat and it's not global war, but i think that in itself would be positive. but only after ukraine has been so reduced in size, as in population, that's and removed had a greater distance from, from russia's borders. so under those conditions, i think russia could live with a new member ukraine, whether you use the, whether the national members fall live with me, it's all the risk is then let me add less than 30 seconds to

a nickel. i would really react to what we just heard from gilbert 30 seconds. go ahead. i mean, i think that effectively transforms billable into the buffer state. the rush is looking for what i don't need to keep going. i, i, i just think, well, if it closes some problems by the raises others and the oil of these issues, this will be what we need is advance of leaving us. we need to, we need another helsinki process. okay, that's, that's what we need. need right now, rapidly i'm running out of time. i want to remind our viewers. nicolai's a s a is what's next for ukraine, the outlines for a peaceful settlement. you can find it at anti ward dot com. it's all the time we have a what i think my guess in brussels and it takes and, and of course i want to take our viewers for watching us here at our dc and next time and we member cross off the

the pit the with get ready to go was like who are fine, but i was calling to check to see to see, oh see on the move to see she must see washing who'd be in the, in the most of the you have to put us on that i can is i'm definitely an institution developed dependent on many countries. they have 1300000000 roman catholics around the world. and as they say in america, follow the money that it can get most of its money from pro western countries. that lot of the nato countries, spain, italy, england, germany, as well as mexico and the united states. so it is dependent on the fact that people sort of come on vehicle grants. and you said you have to deal with rich new i'm is

the, the final day of the truce between him as a new user. all adults do, instead of temporary receipts why i continue. that comes as a $180.00 policy. and then 6 to one is where your hosted use return home to their families and advise release to russian. these ready hostages, who have already made their way through the roof of crossing to egypt. and after more than 50 days of bombing, 15000 policy and civilians in gather had been killed with most buildings. often that's the case president did you step out of on last, invalid diabetes? ready? broad minister. go to the full awesome net on yahoo! who has committed one of the worst atrocities of the last century and.