many a before, so how do you export 2030? i suppose i should ask you about this shadow costs across this region. how difficult has it been for you personally and professionally? just watching? witnessing thousands upon thousands of children being slaughtered by all this nature nation weaponry in, in gaza, our muse covering it every day. i sincere condolences, i, i know, speak as a human being and an unfortunate citizen of this part of the region. condolences to every citizen, every a civilian that has been killed on, on either side as an editor, it's been equally painful. it's always a little bit more painful when it's in your own backyard. but also it was fascinating on a to, to look at how quickly things have changed. if you remember the last time i was here with you in the studio over 2 or 3 months ago, the vibe was complete. the different pieces we were talking about. absolutely. we

were talking piece actually just a few days before uh, in september before the, the october 7th attacks happened. we were talking about the one piece, the of that's going to solve all the regional problem. so the piece normalization attached to a cell, the palestinian deal. and it's remarkable how things change, but i suppose the only constant in politics is change. i remember the news as being the covering a minute by minute on the social media as well as in the, in the paper. the coverage cover seems very different in your newspaper to a lot of an agent nation. television, media and newspapers is a failure of empathy by journalists in western europe. and the united states is a failure is in racism against arabs is a, it's a design is lobby that they conte. appreciate what it means. regardless of how boss, i mean the favor to refer and is,

is this to empathize with the survivors of this? uh, what's being cooled, guys, a holocaust is to somehow back home us. what do you feel when you see the coverage there and compared to the coverage your overseeing army is i am editor of i am use . i'm responsible for what's in her muse. i am not responsible for what is in other countries or other newspapers in other parts of the world just went away more. however we, we, we have had this conversation before and you know, my, my, my views, i do the spice lazy journalism. i do think you cannot narrow down conflicts, wars into, and not all of our very shallow terms, which is what has been happening. uh, it seems to me, there is this obsession with black and white with good and bad cowboys and indians . and it isn't. this is a 75 year old conflict more than 50 years of occupation,

and there has been back and forth there has been his city. there has been an attempt to a piece of, you know, this conflict did not start on october 7th. and it's just, i wouldn't say shameful, but it's a disservice to the audiences of those channels who are led to think this whole conflict started on october 7th, which is absolutely not true. so why do you think it's happening? i mean, you will receive news rooms and you've ever seen lots of journalists before. what do you think is going through their heads in the news rooms in london, paris? well, in washington again, when you, again, i'm responsible for what's know of my nipple. i feel better, but the tube and the 7th, if you, if you start talking about context, if you start talking about history, you automatically somehow support domestic as of october. so i mean, look, part of it in my view is simplistic and possibly lazy,

possibly ignoring it during the reason. i'm not everybody on some part of the during noticed. unfortunately they happened to be working and very influential media outlets. but let's not also separate the coverage from the political position . so the coverage is now becoming a bit more fair across different platforms of talking in general. but the political positions, i've also changed. again, it was very one sided, it was black and white. the israel has the right to defend itself, full stop and the nobody talks about the civilian casualties on the other side. and i started this conversation by saying, you know, every life last on either side, every civilian life. last on either side is a life to many. so i think the coverage has evolved and has become fair as the political position in most western countries as also started shifting. it's not very often the thousands of children have been slow to. absolutely. it's not there

yet. uh, we do hope to see a permanent to cease fire. and we do hope to see a recognition of the state of palestine in the security council because that is the solution to this conflict. and, and that is the biggest guarantor of israel security. but of course, the fact that the new york times that amazon washington post then put the photographs that are news has been running the week before it. that was part of the narrative that helped the u. s. u k, you nation obsession with this thing. there must not be at least a narrative to take whole. the medium was presumably take some of the blame for not showing the kinds of pictures that were on newspapers in say, in our news and news outlets across the global south. oh, absolutely, but the needle has shifted and you know, we can criticize as much as we want the media and democracies, but they do have the sort of an auto correct. it doesn't function all the time, but they do have an auto connected function. if you've seen the protests outside of

the new york times, calling them then your crimes, you've seen to walk outs of employees, m as in b, c, have influenced the and shamefully stopped the programs of 3 of their most live present. there's a streets a few days into the conflict. they've of course, reversed the decision after the story that we did, by the way, uh, at a, at a muse exposing that which i think is shameful. it's on democratic. it's unconstitutional, actually in the united states. so then either is moving, it's not moving as quickly as we would have liked it to, to all we're asking here is the fed and balanced during that. isn't that we have been promised and we've been taught in textbooks and during that isn't what schools? well, because m as nbc denies has anything to do with tyler, terry, and is the one on that pop. it's as supposed to do not made the statement to be fair, which does a lot as saudi arabia as a policy is james on uh, on this uh let genocide,

i mean both savvy and the you a cooling for cease fires at the united nations and then saw the radio, the m b s saying they should be a global arms embargo on israel. what do you think? uh, i mean, i knew just as well would you would support us at the holding expo 20 for the t perhaps in response. very, very on the response, but what do you think? so how do you maybe meant by that? because obviously all the arms being is just a little to the thousands and thousands of children, all nato. so from the united states, in your opinion, in britain, what you need, what i think, what the position clearly says is you need to be said across the board, the board. so if arms producing countries such as the united states, the embargo selling weapons to countries that they think our cri, uh, are using them for genocide or for war crimes, then that should be a rule that applies on everybody. not have your favorites to,

to exclude it. what's happening here is again, with full sympathy for the innocent lives lost on october 7th. this does not justify the killing of over 15000 people. innocent people. a lot of them are babies. a lot of them they have just, there's been a footage. there's been footage recently released of a baby, an infant 3 that was picked up out of the roberts by a miracle. he or she is still alive. but you know, you and i, and possibly every human being on the plan, it's can agree that is not a terrace that cannot possibly be a total of this. so what is the condemnation? where is the sympathy and how can we know as humanity, as countries that preach mortality and breach human rights for such a crime to be committed? so absolutely, an embargo should be across the board and his role should not be exempted if it is

using these weapons to commit crimes such as these ones. well, clearly joe biden, versus your neck, your being the dis, they know how to pictures of the kind you just spoke about and said these realize the right of self defense regardless. and they knew that the thousands of children were being killed and still didn't change their policy. in any case, i mean, i want to return to expert 2050000000 odds and for saudi arabia. but of course, the fact that saudi arabia and the u. a today you a national day have taken such clear positions versus 5 when the americans and western europeans are saying a ceasefire and the benefits them us. what do you make of the lies told against the you a about $1228.00 being an exercise in fossil fuel negotiation and the increased you will propaganda are against our nations likes the idea. rayburn, the you a off to that positions on gaza. this is to full allow me here to answer 1st about the vincent positions about the u. e. and so the vehicle in for

a ceasefire and the u. s. a posing, i think the best answer to that is what the winston, how winston churchill describe. the americans is that they will do the right thing after they've tried everything else. seeing that the ceasefire only benefits from us is very short sighted. it is shallow and it is absolutely wrong. the entity is not on just not just on this instance. there has been several previous incidents with the sound. you are a b as a us ally, as a us friend have advised, particularly the obama administration and the by the ministration. that's what they are doing is, is wrong and has cautioned them that this will have a consequences. that's what harm american interest for. good, forget about our own interest. forget about the regional interest. it will harm american interest. we warrant them when they were negotiating with, with it on the nuclear deal, excluding of the 8 on the other activities in,

in the region back in 24 saturday. that on through the 2016. and we weren't the obama administration that you're going about it. the wrong way, and what was the answer? it was 34. see what a line to it on 3 attacks on the u. s. navy. so what's happening now is just has to repeating itself. we are advising as saudi arabia, as people from this region in the us, we are advised in western countries that you know, it's an immediate cease, why it is in everybody's benefit. but unfortunately, they cannot see through that. and there is the result of what they're going, what, what they're going through now is going to be more hate crimes on the street is going to be breathing more, etc. and by that time, it would be too late to pick up the pieces with regards to your point a to your question regarding a cup 20 look and i think we are at the position now in this region where we sort of got to use to be a constant finger pointing,

and the double standards one has to ask, why is it that when a uh, the u. e, which is a country that is doing its fair share in supporting sustainability gets it gets the lecture and the on the, on the fact that it's a um, an oil producing country. when you know 2 cups of good happens in scotland, we didn't see the same, the rest of it. the same arguments can happen. it can can be argued regarding the world's cup and caught caught that has human rights abuses. i'm out of hand and put that, you know, i put my hands down and i, i would agree that that does have its human rights abuses. but that does so the russia before it. and so does the united states, which country does not have a human rights abuses, sizes on, as i have to stop, use them more from the editor in chief of our muse after this, right? the

there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth. is the case for the madness of the people. i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also of soon. this is the 3rd world lunacy re washing press for so the funder line likes to say we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deals to which let me let me on my have very quick propaganda. you know price here in new york. i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. some more questions ask a better. the answer is will be the,

[000:00:00;00] the, the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the editor in chief of our muse, vice a lot of us faithful. it ended. but when we were just talking about the, i can believe the weaponized ation of human rights. no response. by the way, from the i c c, after the arab league. oh, i see conferencing that israel has to be investigated. 3 of the human rights that human rights industry is now kind of over of the genocide in nga. i mean, if you want to go to technicalities,

then they would argue that the licensee would only look into cases when nations where nations are. so israel, i have a little bit of rush, but you know, the protestant isn't recognized as a nation, but the, but then again, if you want, if they want to argue that argument, then the right to self defense is also only applicable against in other countries. like the, you know, i said it's not the effect that they want them to actually it's not applicable and this is not for me, this is from the human death palestinian human rights for, for tore at the u. n. a francesca have been easy. who is a human rights lawyer? the rights for self defense ceases to exist if you're an occupying power. so there's a lot of legal tell you that wasn't depreciated by any or western european politicians who clearly continually repeated that then. so why has the i c c being silent? do you think what is undisputable is the collapse of the moral high ground or the proceeds more on high ground of many western countries. when we see,

when we allow 16000 innocent people to be a kid when we allow babies to be uh, you know, dug up from under the rubble. when we use a few and water electricity as a weapon. who, who gave israel the rights to be able to turn on and off water. it's a basic human, a neat and i repeat to say this, this is in no way seen what happens on october 7, is justified. the fact you have to say the same. so no bit smaller, haven't gave me the editor in chief of our view is just not to support the october the 7th the attack because it's very easy for people to pick and choose a sound bites and say i, but you're saying this, what i'm seeing is what happens, any human, any innocent human life last is a life too many on an on either side. but the simple fact, i mean and,

and the fact that we have to stress this is unbelievable. but that does not justify the kink at as they say, 2 rooms do not make it right. you cannot give 50000 people because you had 1200 people. it's not the numbers. it's not the numbers game, but you cannot give a car launch for a country to do whatever it wants to innocent people in this way and then retain the motor on high ground. i think the motor on high ground of the so called what on high ground of many if there was some country has now has been exposed to the hold words population. but despite the global south, the differences with winston churchill, we've heard from the state department claims that look, look what happened to dresden in response to the nazis. that's how the major countries have been responding to. yes i, i just, i'm just making a look at drugs. been busy. i was just doing drugs of the game. yeah. the 2 rooms do not make, make it right. and you would argue that that's happened a few decades ago since then. i believe there's been

a lot of in vestments in work in technology, precision and technology. and since then, you know, arguably you should have the means to be to wage wars in a way that's causes less a damage to civilian lives and civilian areas. unless you have a car launch from the world's biggest browsers to do whatever you want. thankfully we are seeing that cards lunch slowly, being with withdrawn a bit too late in my opinion. but let us pray for 30 minutes to cease fire and let us hope for up in the city and state. because as i said earlier, that is the only way this conflict is going to end. and that is the best go into our force is real security. what can arab countries do more as regards this happening again and then other years time? say, i mean, we've seen the bombing of damascus international airport, the civilian airport, and we've got the 200 syria between you,

a inside of the and syria, a best putting aids, the giving aid the saturdays in the moratti's. they are, they're the you in force for leasing fees for this is, this is an oil $1.00 way to be able to force the issue here and save some of those children. not only for golf 28, reducing production, and to find some entity blinking school to increase production. but also to say, if you do this, production costs will be greater then you will expect. what uh, oil is not with in, in the same way that we don't want or we hope that is written answers the cause that stops getting civilian. when you cut off oil and you are affecting babies in incubators, all across the world. the effects in school children are affecting the elderly and you know, it's definitely not on the table and there are very wise reasons why it's not on the table. but the, if you're asking me, why are you, i'm optimistic that the at

a is the most them approach this time is different. i'll tell you why we are seeing and unprecedented the unified front in, in the region with support from other global power such as russia and china, perhaps were the very 1st time in, in history. so remember we had the defense with the, with the, with it on and the eating and leadership attended the meeting in the 3 up and were signatories of the declaration. if you had a risk amongst themselves, that had been the result. so you have a unified front with, between saudi arabia and cuts out, which as you know, hosts the how much leadership, which is a very powerful assets and in this unified front, at, at the moment. so what i'm trying to say is, this time we're able to do more because of the unified in rhetoric, rather than actually no, no, not really. there is what he's got to have more action than a few rhetoric,

even though there's going to send in the military to attack. is it are there is a team of out of 4 administers that have done other than most of them states for ministers that have done a world tour which has started in, in china and just recently was in new york to attending at the united nations and they, i've not seen in the past few decades, a more unified at, i'm mostly in the front. and we are hopeful that these diplomatic efforts we are using every method in the book to try to get to, to approve it and to cease fire and try to get a recognition of, of ballasting. and as the countries are frightened, always rather we've seen in reason daisy loan most such a powerful 1000000000 and with the x will relate to it to he. he got frightened of his right leg complete because he was there taking a trip round the giblets. as with the net and yahoo, he hasn't taken up on us,

is the offer to go to gaza. how frightening the people of israel in this region? well, i'll tell you people of being cool that you sent me take a look at that. can't be possible because we are semis or ourselves as a as arabs. i think this right when coalition that benjamin that then yeah. who is leading when you have one of your own minister culture ministers nevertheless. saying they want to new goes. i mean, i hardly can think of anybody that you know wouldn't be frightened if that's is the if those are the words that are being authored by a member of the cabinet. so can you just imagine if the implement that, of course, the directive, the 2nd the but you know, the fact that it, it was sent when you know, the, the defense minister and it causes, or palestinians, human animals and that they will be treated as such. that is a very frightening statement if their response to the saudi arabia, calling for homes and by go with to stop them. uh,

backing. i didn't even know they backed saudi arabia for expo 20 for the although israel vitally denied backing saturday. one sign maybe of optimism, perhaps they'll be signs of optimism at cop $28.00 for saving the the planet. just to explain what it means that expo 21st he will be inside of the arabian announced this week. and i think it's a huge victory for a saudi arabia in terms of its diplomatic efforts. because as you know, it took a lot of lobbying, but also an excellent opportunity to showcase the new and saudi arabia to showcase old, the reforms that have been and in a very interesting coincidence, schoolvision 2030. so people will get an opportunity to come to saudi arabia and witness really a miracle in the making. because what has happened in the last 7 years? it's been unprecedented on so many levels. and it's one of the few countries in the world where there's actually, i mean, the crump, in school, the,

the success story of the 21st century. and that is the reality. when you see that we are scheduled to be the fastest growing economy in the g 20 this year. when we exceed the target set for a woman, employment, or inclusion in the workforce, we get we went from less than 9 percent to more than 36 percent. and in less than 6 years, that is remarkable. and i don't want to even start talking about the architecture buildings that are being that are being created because that's the easiest. that's the easiest part, but it is a melting pot of different cultures and people shouldn't be surprised. i argue we have been holding expo for to 1400 years. we have organized the has since these of the profit. so we are very used to welcoming people from all nationalities. and this would be an opportunity in

a very different the context of course. but people will experience the saudi hospitality on our excellence at what coming people just just finally then, i mean, we've seen this me as against the u. e because of the comp 28 as well. no doubt it seems to me is against saudi arabia because that not so much it holding x to expo, but because of its positions on numerous global south issues. what more can jesus, the country is do to fight that? or maybe it doesn't get perceptions of that are clearly created by some groups in western europe and in nature, nations against gcc countries, against as well. i think we should carry on by doing the right things because they are in the benefit of our own people and if our own country and one would hope that the viewers leaders in the cities around the world become, are becoming more educated and no one to take it back to that goes

a conflict. it was a fascinating that the, you know, people are constantly asking, do you come to them? how much do you know who the biggest sympathizer will support of thomas? is it is benjamin netanyahu, and those are not my words. those are an editorial in the times of israel. so in one of israel's only newspapers, they are blaming and nothing you know, for what has happened. and they said his strategy for the past 15 years of undermining the legitimate palestinian authority in the best westbank what. how much does not exist and a one at the same time and followed and come us. in fact, he's quoted to see if you want to, for ever forgets or a disabled opinion state or do you need to do is continue to support. uh, how much will they say it? suddenly a recruitment to sergeant, i think, is seen by most of the global south, the actions of israel. i'm by these ne donations. i should just say a culture of the 8 all these important degrees flying in to do by do you think they'll be

a lot of guys are on the sidelines and do you think they'll be success stories emerging out of this while a single day and usually we see what's going on in the west bank in syria, in uh, in guys to the u. e is a very important player and hats off to them for carrying on with what they need to do with the important agenda. they have 4 cop 28 for the important agenda that they have, and i'm not a few minutes adrian, aspects in their mission to mars the continue a heads up to them. the continue with disregarding the virtual signaling, the finger pointing, and the students that goes on, i think word leaders would be one advice to a have serious conversations with the leadership of the u. e, with the leadership of saudi arabia, and try to find the solutions to the 21st century from the country that as described by the saudi conference is going to be the 21st century success story. i think there's

a lot of wisdom in having these discussions and start having constructive conversations as opposed to disruptive ones. pass all of us. thank you. and that's it for the show will be back on monday, hearing host, who called 20 i do by we don't 3 in front of the united nation special rapids on climate change and human rights. but until then give it to us. why are we lost social media results sense in your country and had to our channel going on? the run tv on rumbled welcome to watching you and old episodes on going on to go and see him on the screen on the bus can do either speak with key at the washington state,

the most of the computer and he was supposed to phone and send 2 professional men to keep the list of all but huge,

but they use the of the dead tongue grief spread across gals. as is really palding's return to the enclave . and at least 2 older people have lost their lives since friday. according to poets giving enough pharmacies, a local journalist, spoke to us from the territory, saw in its vicinity what i'm out, lots of posts, but that has been almost 5 times and it says haven't stopped thrusting back and forth. people are discussing the chaos, not knowing where to go and not knowing where to sleep. the point where to address the renewed idea of a sol came just minutes after a 7 days. the fire expired,