of the the hi, i'm rick sanchez and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. whitelisted opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please, or do the have the state department c i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. i changed and whatever you do. don't marshall state main street because i'm probably going to

make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the waiting thing. you might think that when a major international bank is caught violating the laws of dozens of countries, including in the areas of money laundering and tax evasion, it would want to clean up itself. you might think that when this major international bank is caught, breaking the law red handed by a whistle blower who then reports his or her revelations, to the us department of treasury and justice. that the bank would want to ensure that it's and it's employees then word solely within the confines of the law. unfortunately though, at least in the case of swiss banking, giant, u. b. s. u would be wrong. i'm john kerry. ok, welcome to the whistle blowers, the

. 2 2 2 2 2 2 last year we told you the story of bradley brick and spelled d u b s. whistleblower who reported to the us government that u. b. s. had helped literally thousands of wealthy americans avoid federal taxes and longer money off shore, particularly in accounts in the caribbean. broken fields revelations eventually resulted in u. b. s paying a penalty of $780000000.00. at the time that was the biggest fine ever imposed on a bank in 2008, about a year after brick and feld had reported u. b. s to the us government bank executives ordered some of its employees, including our next guest to destroy all of their computer files related to customers, with offshore accounts in switzerland. the unspoken message here was clear brook, and feld hadn't been able to reveal all of the banks, illegalities and bank executives wanted to destroy whatever evidence was left to

try to protect themselves from further litigation, prosecution, and fines. but one employee, stephanie's hugo refused to destroy every and, and she was the only one. stephanie protested to u. b. s. management into french regulators. her documents would eventually help to identify $38000.00 offshore bank accounts, containing $12000000000.00. u b. s responded by trying to fire her during the 2008 financial crisis. the french government intervene, but u. b. s. was successful in harassing and intimidating her and didn't isolating her professionally. she soon begin suffering from anxiety and depression. in 2012 u b. s finally fired her, and not only did the bank fire her, but it sued her to seeking damages for defamation. after the publication of her book, the woman who knew too much part of that series of lawsuits, plagues her today. with that said,

stephanie did not roll over. she filed her own suit against u. b. s seeking compensation totaling 3500000 euros she one. but the judge gave her only 4500 zeros. you'd be us eventually paid a record fine of $4900000000.00 in 2019. but stephanie was left financially ruined and blacklisted in the financial sector. in the united states, whistle blowers are usually rewarded financially for their whistle blowing. brick and field was given a whistle blower. we're award of $104000000.00. that was a record at the time. just a few years ago. another whistle blower whose anonymous was given to a $100000000.00 for providing information about deutscher bank submitted the elation of the lead board benchmark. stephanie is now seeking to become the 1st french whistleblower to be awarded compensation for her revelations. stephanie's

you bo, welcome to the show. we are very happy to have you a. thank you john, for where kind of way coming me here. thank you very much, stephanie. it's painful to read what you have gone through over the past 15 years. you did the right thing, other whistle blowers who did exactly the same thing that you did were richly rewarded for you. it was the beginning of the end of your career. so take us back to you vs in 20072008. bradley burke and failed had just made his revelations, your superiors ordered you to destroy bank files. and then what happened and i did not comply, which means that as i refused to do need those fives because somehow i was not understanding what it meant. uh, it's very strange to work in a company for 10 years. and all of a sudden there's a kind of un nami, there has been a search in the office of the general manager. and it's off to the search that i

was asked should you need my 5. but i could not understand the link between the search and the office of the general manager and my job. so somehow i just industry that they want you to get rid of me, that there was something wrong with me. i never, i mean i do not understand by that time that the content of lightning fires were extremely dangerous for the bank. uh, i, i really couldn't understand what was wrong i, i just understood that there was something really wrong with me. so i thought i had made a mistake and i really felt that they wanted to get rid of me. and because i didn't all delete those fives, no audio cards, because then i was asked, did you need 0 cars i had in my office? because i didn't, i was not a big deal and then i suffered 3 and

a half years to be as in between 20082012. i suffered like many whistle blowers, which is harassment. isolate issue, distribute you be a spending a complaint against me when i was student executive of the bank. and um, well it, it was the beginning of a very sad story because somehow i lived stopped in june 2008. when i refused to do those fines, i saw an interview that you gave research very, very difficult. i'm sorry to interrupt you. i saw an interview that you gave recently to my friend chris hedges in which you said that when you were at u. b. s you never received any training in things like how to prevent money laundering or how to prevent income tax evasion. you also never received any ethics training. i'm

certain that that's true because when i was at the c, i a i to never received any training and ethics or even in the rule of law. but you knew instinctively that what you were being ordered to do was wrong. what was it about you? or about your background that made you question what you were ordered to do it's it's true that i feel really different from many people and i've always wondered why i was not behaving like others, somehow of a kind of guilt. you know? no behaving like other people, and i think it's my personality, but i think it's meant to be a couple of shock. a couple of shocks i suffered when i was a charge, a name me. one of the things i can remember is when i was 12 years old, my mother took me to a to partner and she took me to the hours of 8 scam. and i was not prepared for

that. i was not mature enough. i was not prepared. i was too young and i thing that the shocking tours for me made then me uh, try to to challenge everything that had been told to me. why do people obey what even if it's wrong, why do we human beings who have, you know, language scales compared to animals? why do we destroy our own space shoes? why? why do we comply without asking questions? you know, when yours a chart and if you have children, you know that children ask lots of questions. mm hm. and of continue, there's a grown up to always ask questions and not to accept things like they are. so it's

my behavior. so because i was trusting us because i was voting my time and my energy to be as i was saying now, you know, my boss is and my colleagues mold and i was seeing my own children. me, obviously, when this story happened, i felt that something was really serious. it's really serious. you know, not something like and we were detained on the daily basis and you live close like, but what on earth is going on? so obviously it was extremely scared. i was in as canada, i'm always in the state of fear. exactly likes, you know, hunted animals, you know, during the hunting season you see the other one was a run everywhere on the extremely scared. but many, many people that u b. s. well, i this and usually fear per lives. these people,

when people are in a state of fear, they don't do anything. the just boy, you know, they comply. yes. but may be because i had this experience as a terrific experience. so as a child, and because it's something i remember every, every day of my life since maybe just has told me the less than of my life. like, i think think differently, you know, some house think out of the box and do what students do, what you have to do. i, it's the only explanation i can, i can do. i think that's, i think that's a very good explanation. and, you know, the psychologist who worked with whistle blowers say that whistle blowers have a very clearly defined sense of right and wrong. it's, it's far more developed than the general population. one of the things that you have spoken about and written about has been the personal, social and professional solution that you've experienced. once you blew the whistle

to french authorities, the bank worked hard to try to ruin you. so tell us what that was like, especially what was the reaction from your, your coworkers, from your friends, even from your family members? was there anybody that you could lean on for support? well, i was like, anybody else who do i have the children. i had a family, i had friends under social life, i had the job. so obviously i was doing what all of our of you do. i was going to send them all. i was going into sports events that was going on holidays. but as i said, my life stopped in 2008 because nobody understood why i refused to do this. why? why i decided to stand for the truth. why it didn't long to somehow shut up and be a be doing and be what everyone perceives as being a good person. somehow i was the monster i was perceived as the

black sheep. yes. and i'll just be here. you know, we just talked about uh about uh about for di, windows. so and what i understood as a china, but what could happen with it now people's mind and uh, what they do when people are re news care. mm hm. but this is exactly fit your family, your friends, your company's the potential employers, even journalist. yeah. yeah. like but or is that it's too violent? so people freeze, you know, and um, as you may know, the major um experience, you understand that everyone comply with the rules. if you know, an instruction is being given by an authority, whoever they are, people just okay. they fall into the responsibility run,

say he or she is responsible. i just of a, i am know, trying this and i don't why i'm not likely to somehow, i'm really angry at myself is because i'm myself that them, you know, being to the side of society. so it's, it's extremely complicated because people knew, you know, we're talking about trust, i read his trust in my company, i really trust in my managers. but i also trusted my friends and my family and my cummings and mine too long try. as i trust you, the, everybody, including the french society is up towards when i had to work with them. and somehow i understood that. i don't know if it's fate. i have no idea. but somehow that the rude and was on was the one. no one wouldn't backup. i was too scary and many people have said that to me we understand that you're a very courageous woman, but you know you're a very scare me and i have never had this on my on my shoulders before. so

yes, it's um, it's a blessing of life somehow. what happened to me when i was 40 years for 40 years old and terrible? stephanie, please stay with us. we are going to take a short break. we're speaking with u. b. s whistleblower stephanie zebo about her revelations of wrong doing at the bank including the order destruction of evidence of criminal activity. we're going to take that short break and come back to talk about the aftermath of her revelations and about her book stay tune. 2 the,

[000:00:00;00] the, the welcome back to the list of lawyers. i'm john kerry, onto we're speaking with u. b. s with of lower stephanie zebo. stephanie, thanks again for being with us. a thing to jones. there's a huge difference between being a banking whistleblower in the united states and being

a banking whistleblower in france. in the united states. the whistleblower is eligible for a reward of between 26 and 34 percent of the amount of money that the government recovers. thanks to the whistle, blowers, revelations, in the case of your former colleague, bradley burke and failed. for example. that meant that he received a $104000000.00 reward. but not only did you get nothing, you were harassed. why is the situation so different in france? why do whistle blowers there? have so few protections who it's going to be a very long? yeah, it could be a very long answer. big cose. first of all, what we can say is that the lows and friends are extremely new. new in the us have, which were blowing in the constitution in france, it's back to 2016. so only 7 years ago. so obviously they are no

previous cases. i am the 1st one, and this is on seen the, sorry i'm, i've been telling you for the 1st couple of minutes, it's on seen and it's unknown. so as we have a new legal or the frame, well, nobody is used to that. the lawyers are not used to, it just is nothing used to it. politicians as you know, the talk and instead of talking the talk, they should walk the walk. but no one does because it's very complicated because it needs courage and it needs the truce. we see it all we're we're still living away. busy where lies are much more accepted, send a truce and i'm being warm during the fact this. i'm a woman in this man's environment because finance is last man,

everywhere you know was bankers and i was not and i was an alter banker. and also because i've dealt with the ministry of finance, is where they are. many men maybe has something to do with that. i have no idea because i'm french and i so i was a citizen of the so called country of human rights, right. which protects people or which way comes and protects people persecuted in countries. and you know, when there is a war when there are plenty to go out and scandals on political issues. i'm a french women, nice stood up against frank bench and i worked for more than a year with sworn office yours. so the french government has low was because in france they have 2 separate close as a load to protect with the drawers and there's a low we should work with this with the state on fraud. and so the figures are

different than what the new announce for the us. i think it's by 15 person for the big pros, it's something like 15 percent, but then you'll be a scandal. is the biggest road ever ever? friends? that's right. it's the biggest one. i've never seen that. yeah. they have never seen that and all of them, you know, civil servants i worked with never, never dealt with something as big as that. when that, that lead to my next on single was in charge of that. why don't they won the load to be applying to me? that leads to my next question. actually, i know that you are seeking legal redress against u. b. s. and that there are several parts of your lawsuit that are still pending. can you tell us about that lawsuit and about your work to have whistle blowers and friends recognized well, i used to have a pending case about that harassment i suffered at the bank,

but also because somehow my life a substance as you know, re you be as you know, in the media, they were extra me a angry and to me so obviously this credit crediting me was very easy and you'll be as being such a par for bank because the on the well as if people have accounts was you b as in name me on the ceo's on the heads of multinational companies on the heads of the media. so as i was a communication person, all the series i send to have never received any answers to my career editors. so obviously the so called protection low of width of ours is suppose to make a windows case and u b s would be we have to pay what they owe me, which means the past 11 years plus everything regarding my retirement right game

and regarding pay raise and rebuilding inflation and regarding bonuses and regarding one of our it's a huge mistake for me, but i think it's up to you and steak for you be asked to because you'll be s as just credit to me every where. but i haven't stolen any documents. that's right, i have an internal wizard blowing case i went in, so everyone a to be is the president john badger the ahead of law h r i to to the head of legal and compliance. i talked to everyone i could refer to and all of them had the same model. so it was means that there was tired, there was no to banker that that was unable to understand what was going on. so somehow i the dev or the played with me. however, as i helped the french government and because you b as has been fined, because you b as

a manager is i've been fined as well. they've been sentenced and fine. so it means that i told the truths me see if i told the truth, i guess that the judges will uh, trust me. right. and that way when want my child versus to be asked. but once again, i am the 1st one. so when you are the 1st one, it's as if you with tip toeing on uh, on own channel, is it no, wait? oh yes, extremely difficult. oh yes, it's a new world in that respect, you're the one that the really, that's really creating the precedent for for what comes next. i wanted to say also that i'm glad that i had the chance to read your excellent book, which i whole heartedly recommend to our viewers. one of the really terrific things about it besides your very compelling story is the fact that wiki leaks co founder julian assange wrote the introduction. can you tell us about that? how you got to know julian, hassan, and uh,

and how he came to write the introduction to your book. well, i was honored to meet julian within the embassy of a quarter of a quarter and london towards the 8th 8 years ago. and we spent 4 hours and discussing many subjects, obviously the relation between whistler bowers and media. and the trust one has a just as a, as, as a joyce with a whistle glory and as a whistle, glory to a journalist because it's, it should be a win win situation. and what we can do is somehow to keep people informed and how to protect people and how to protect with of lawyers and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. we have many, many, many subjects to discuss. and as you know, 2 years later, i think the embassy over quit or decided that to enjoy and would be kept

a science. and his cell phone was disconnected and he could not communicate to the world anymore. so i had a friend, was able to send you and your name and under. and uh he agreed to provide me with a text. and if you've read the book, i guess it read the children's text, which is extra me i to rate because it talks about the hypocrisy of the presentations about the lies, about the truth, about fair fights, about fighting for the truth. so the text children, as the reason is extremely important when you know what your situation is like in daily days and days, you know, has been detained for more than 4 years now. or yeah, and as you know, we might be extradited to the us any time now. yes. so

a meeting i saw was for me some how extraordinary because i'm french and i'm a woman. and i have a special profile as a whistle blower because i was not a whistle blower who came public because i gave information to the press. i had to enter a little alerts and somehow i became a public person because right, some people have given my. busy name to the mean. yeah. so we talked to june about on this, and i think that we will have to unite an or all of us whoever we are on dependence because this case is the case of our western democracies. you know? yes, as i've said to many people, um, because i gave you interviews everywhere in the world is that only dictatorships a separate children, young children from the parents. yes. and who are we in europe?

who are the brakes to have been able to separate julian from mississippi to trigger? it means that when babies, when or when, when your children was taken to the last. and we have to stand between this family . because uh, it's not only do you know, soul just case, it's all of us. it's not read out speech. yes. and the freedom of the press. and uh, it's information that all of those of citizens are supposed to get on a daily basis of free information. and obviously i'm sure it's a permissions, so we will have to stand for our associates. well, i want to thank you stephanie, very much for being with us. it was a pleasure speaking with you. thank you, john. thank you very much for. busy your time, the truth telling can be very difficult, unnecessarily. so the support of truth takes integrity. people with integrity do

what they say they're going to do. others make excuses. people with integrity do the right thing, even when they know that they will pay a personal price, but the foundation stones for integrity or honesty, character and loyalty. i for 1 am grateful for people like stephanie's hugo. thanks for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers i'm john kerry echo. we'll see you next time. 2 2 2 2 the look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings accept. we're such orders at conflict with the 1st law show your mind, anticipation. we should be very careful about our professional intelligence at the point, obviously is to create a trustee,

or rather than to the various jobs. i mean with artificial intelligence. we have somebody in the team and the robot must protect this phone. existence was on the take a fresh look around. there's a life kaleidoscopic, isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real live indians. fixtures, design to simplify will confuse really once a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few. fractured images presented. it is 1st. can you see through their illusion going underground? can

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