0, yeah, global issues, but you know, particularly the gross and the, you know, use of fossil fuels across the world is, is a serious concern. and we, we have to deal with those issues. some, well, a serious concerns about the strategic mentals but of technology. so he's like lithium cobalt and all these other, you know, what's called strategic minutes. the

last president joe biden surprised and disappointed many people around the world when he authorized sending kids pentagon stockpiles of cluster munitions. these munitions has been banned by most of the world, including most u. s. allies. yet nobody took a diplomatic measures to block them the nearly 20 years ago. a comprehensive treaty was developed to banned the use of cluster munitions. these versatile weapons have a long and ugly history around the world, especially their extensive deployment in laos, cambodia, and vietnam during the c i is secret war. so just what our cluster munitions, while they're basically a larger looking bomb, the houses, hundreds of smaller bonds. these munitions can be fired from the ground by all

sorts of artillery systems dropped by aircraft, and the disburse mid air spreading, the so called bomblets or balm bees indiscriminately. those smaller many bonds are supposed to explode upon impact sending shrapnel in every direction. the idea is to cause maximum carnage against the enemy. but as you'll learn today, that is not the reality of what happens to the bomb these historical records. tell us that us cluster munitions have over a one percent fail rate. they don't explode as intended. so what happens is they remain dormant in the ground for sometimes decades as it allows for an unsuspecting civilian to accidentally step on kick or whatever, maybe a farmer telling their land. most of the civilians, however, are children who think their toys because they look like

a tennis ball. a little tennis ball sized or, or you may think a one percent fail rate is actually a good number. but you'd be wrong when you consider the 10s of thousands of the ballots that are actually released since the 2008 convention on cluster munitions. more than a 100 countries have signed the treaty, including france, germany, another ones, the u. k and 20 other nato allies and partners such as japan and australia. but the us, russia and ukraine have not signed on. in fact, for the wes, a, d o d policy issued in november of 2017 permits, the use of all the millions of cluster munitions stocks. quote, until sufficient quantities of enhanced and more reliable versions are developed and fielded. and the pentagon policy also pays the way for the us acquisition of

cluster munitions from foreign sources to replenish its stock. according to human rights watch. meaning the us has to get rid of its old stockpiles somehow. so they can make way for the acquisition of new munitions. so to talk more about the ravages of cluster munitions will bring in a guest who has had on the ground 1st hand experience with the sab results of the use of these weapons. sarah cool up the law is the ceo of legacies of war and chair person for the us campaign to ban landlines and cluster munitions coalition. you can follow her on twitter or x as they are calling it these days at sarah collab fell out. thank you. so much for joining us, sarah. so there's a lot of talk lately about cluster munitions because of the war and ukraine after the us decided to send kids,

some of the pentagon old stock piles. and i think it's fair to speculate that some of these old stockpiles came from decades ago when the c, i a range these down onto a louse during the sixties and seventies. talk to us about the kind of devastation cluster munitions cause and is there any impact to these types of arms as they age? meaning could perhaps older munitions have a higher failure rate to designate then say newer ones. oh yeah, i'm the i think so much behind me on it and tires. i think this issue. so 1st i just want to say that as someone who s version witness my father, i, dr. suicide looked at work on numerous win victims. i sort of worries us so, and then my accidents, i know version the horrors that these guys are indiscriminate. that'd be what is can have on a civilian population. so, you know, was

a little bit about the munitions that in question. right? so to by the administration announce on july 7th that it was transferring munition to you. my and those munitions are now being used by the, in military. and the ones that washes are strong. do you 19 eighties? so these are the m 864. and they're at least 30 years old. and now you're absolutely right. you know, once these munitions are sitting in our saw pile, they do age and there's where i share. but i think the, the plan that we should be focusing on is the impact of civilians during and after the cost way. not that way, right. i think the dod ray is just right here and i because we know that the latest march report on the munition was just released this week and states that

east lessons impact 90 percent of civilians. a 60 percent of those are billions my children. that means they're under the age of 18. right. and like you, i'm allow heritage, my own family were victims of us, cluster munitions, my paternal grandfather and my dad. then 7 year old little brother died as a result of the secret war in the 1960. so for me, this is deeply personal as it probably is for you. but this isn't a problem that is left to history. is it? i mean it's, it's still a persistent problem. it allows today yeah, no 1st, no, thank you for sharing your own personal story. because i do feel that there is the more and more people share this as part of just really have drained the history,

learn from it as well as you try. and to me, this is a 2 day problem. so today allows every single problems, all 17 problems and the capital city. again, john has some form of contamination, right? and these are on bonds are draw exactly 50 years ago. i was just 2 miles and you know, 2 weeks before i flew out in august, there was a traffic accident that occur insight where we pods and dis involved 3 children, all under the age of 10. so to 10 year old and a 5 year old over um, just found where it was just laying around and it doesn't need it. it showed all 3 children and injured one, you know, for any stations dot receive funding from the united states government to try to address this. we're able to just call the expense on the medical expense for the

injured and then the funeral and basi by traditional religious therapy for the 3 children whose last parish. so dot is just in july that that happens. right? and today, the national regulatory authority, the governing body of the year during miles estimates that at least $20000.00 people. so cavities of these unexplored awareness these 5 decades or still are in need of chair. and that, you know, that doesn't tell you that this is a problem today. i don't know what was the right way. we have countless id, my meetings are the minors that are working to clear these orders, but still to just j less than 10 percent of the area miles has been cleared. and there's still this great need for funding to new orleans to provide

a minus education for victims. like the ones i shared with you inside which currently does not have any minus education curriculum or as the mining teen. um, not to mention the victims of the war right after the war as well as unfortunately, unless we these or i the future as well. yeah. now it's my understanding and correct me if i'm wrong, but roughly 40 percent of laos is currently completely uninhabitable due to the mass proliferation of u. x. those all over the country. talk to us about those cleaning efforts and allows. yeah. so you know, fortunately, manila is not 40 percent this 30 percent, that's the estimation. right. so 130 else i still have contamination and this is, you know, i swear or it ends on there's a least

a 183 different types of ordinance that's littering. the beautiful landscape laws and you know, as an american very how that the guy states the meetings lender globally on imagine the money. so since 1993, the united states invested at least 4 west of $1000000000.00 for clearance due for a 100 countries. and that includes loss. so due to, you know, legacy the war. our supporters are tires, obviously assets this year and miles is receiving $25000000.00 for the class afterwards. because the systems on my reservation how the united states. and this is a lot of money, but i'll give you just a quick perspective in the us. then $16000000.00 a day in today's dollar bone loss or 9 straight years. so

25000000 in my opinion, is a drop in the bucket. we need to download or this is my office to be cleared with yours and mine is lifetime right now. and this is a problem that we know how to resolve and we have play the myers got them ready to do this class effort, but they need more funding. they need to stay. yeah. id. be able to expand the team and provide more my collab to children showing that the dangers of these explosive . right. yeah. and you know, like the laughter that i have to kind of has to go to hollins, the entire boss. and you know, to give you an idea of how she use the my work is i visited the d h i or imagine inclusion team in the northern parts. and this is a project that's funded by the netherlands. so thank you. now that was and i hope

they'll continue to find the h i team doing this work, but the entire loss is very mountainous, right. so there's a lot show. the train is very difficult to access my team and i had to bring a plane to some. yeah, and then take a 3 and a half hour bought the car i to get to the the mining site. and then i slipped out to the area where you want me to clean a job. but it's really difficult because in order to clear the land you have to remove saw the vegetation right? so meaning unclear and yet so you can even get in there and then making sure you're taking all the necessary precautions yourself as well as all the things before. just designation. i not require 7 to announce that the villagers coordinate with other people living in the area as well as their livestock to make

it safe for clearance and that nation can happen. so this is, you know, um there's a lot of process and it requires like immense dedication to training as well as just like the protective that you are to ensure that you might realize are staying as well as all the people that live in that area. right. especially to your point about $45000000.00 for this one year. if we look at the broader pentagon budget of $845000000000.00 this past year alone, that is certainly less than a drop in the bucket. i say please sit tight, we're going to come back with you for some more. don't go anywhere, sarah. coming up next. the us often credits itself with being a champion of human rights, but it's track record would suggest otherwise. we'll discuss it when we return with sarah, pull up the last a tight. m o will be right back the

the acceptance. and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show . seriously. why watch something that's so different. whitelisted opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do have the state department c. i a weapons, bankers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want marshall stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching. but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the way you a the same wrong.

just don't you have to shape house because the after and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves will depart. we choose to look for common ground, the the welcome back to the m. o i manila chance. we're continuing our conversation about the cluster munitions with our guest. sarah collab, deluxe sarah is uh, the ceo of legacies of war. thank you for staying with us, sarah. so in spring of 2023, you published an op ed in usa today, calling on president bye to not to sent cluster munitions to ukraine, but also for the us to join the 100 plus countries in a multi lateral treaty to band the use of them the convention on cluster munitions

entered into force back on august 10th of 2010. so as of now the us has not signed onto the convention. do you think part of that is because the convention calls for member countries to clear contaminated areas within 10 years. and because it requires members to destroy all of its stock within 8 years now, add to that the requirement to provide assistance to victims like a victims compensation fund. i mean, is that all perhaps too tall in order for the us, especially as it pertains to allows a so great question. now, i think the best person to answer that would be covered by in congress. what i can say now is, you know, as the chair of the u. s. c o, z and z, or you can change that landline cost, municipal listen. we are greatly concerned with the awesome issues that

the united states, how transferred to ukraine, and we have consistently, you know, my polish and colleagues, 9 asked administration from washington, tennessee for clarity as well. all urge them to like stop sending, blocked munitions. now the united states have at least 1700000 classes, shells, recitals and rockets in arsenal. point to human rights watch. definitely pro lead to 500000000 cell munitions vanilla. that's a lot of issues on our side pile. right. and these are benz my over a 120 countries for a reason why there is going to that, right? they cannot how the difference between or small tile, they don't have any mechanism that will solve the straw. so that means the cheese

or countries like miles claudia and get now we're talking 5 decades. so we're still cleaning up these deadly weapons. and people has to be our, our actual line. um, now our us government and will say that we're leaning towards, you know, doing everything that you guys, you know, costs munitions would require a signature laurie. um, you know, the latest into 2017 i there was a mandate that requires congress to not be able to transfer any documentation that had a better way of overlap percent. hi, this is violated to i city nations which is own government has a that has a, again, i don't rate a 2.35 percent. now this is, this is already above the lower side, right? but still, i think we cannot trust the board because any time the use

of munition and a bad feel, always have consistently shown that is different from ways that i use this different reports. right, right. and when you look at what is like the congressional service review reports, i'm the goddess phone on how to report all these nations the rates are different. i . i'm in the case of the 2022 rational service view or is the manufacturer stated that the um the, the rate is between let to buy sense, but do you mind uh, do you mind me 1st experts with these uh, the rate uh between 10 to 30 percent. now in the case of or we have already witness. right. like the war miles. oh yeah. yeah. and um so that nation rate, those daily rate those dodd rates excuse me. so those that rate are anywhere between

10 to hours of 30 percent as we seen in los. yeah. and you have actually just recently returned state side after a visit to louse this summer. i have seen a lot of new videos on social media recently of developments across laos, like the new high speed rail built by a chinese investment that goes from beyond john, the capital city all the way. uh, north into united province china. there's a large, upscale shopping mall that looks like any mile you'd find in america built by a malaysian investment group. the russians are building out new infrastructure at the beam. john airport. do you think this speaks to one like the spirit of the allowed people to move past its designation as the most heavily bombed country on the planet? but as a double edge sword, do you fear that seeing so many new positive developments there that people might

forget the ravages of cluster munitions that still linger especially all over the countryside. uh yeah, um, you know, your feel like there's a lot of new development in laos and national geographic. i just actually the top 4 estimation for 2023 lighthouse. you may go online, you are not there to the god just because last is deals. how many miles is history that there is? and it's a few you right? there's so many beautiful places for torres. what? who, you know, in my home town i just saw the clear german or have already been cleared and a safe for taurus miles is gary. now to chair did a twice me or i'll see on to be the chair of us, you know, twice before. so there are a lot of people that will be miles and miles is hold it for a maximum. use it okay. for the partnership with the rest of the world. so i'm very

proud of that and i'm proud of you know, the car. all right, hiding just because regardless of the task the people allow these are for it and the people wow. these are to you want to see my time view as it's more progress neighbors. but to answer your question, the are number one priority. manila is asking me issue meaning to remove the munition to make it state words, chico. and the elements of this beautiful country are they asked. ringback adopted in addition to the sub she and sustainable development goals that hundreds of countries are not they all the world, no power hiding lake power. the equity generate quality loss added a s p g 18. so that's not free for my for now. so, you know,

in addition to the united states, funding class offers other countries like the u. k, nor will a turkey of funding clearance offers in laos de la p are also investors own money and resources to do this work as well. yeah. let's, let's hope that all the shiny, new shopping malls, people don't forget that this is still happening. like you said, every day people are still dying of this and louse. so last question here. you've spoken to the survivors. many of them from the secret war survivors of the cluster, munitions, you x, those balmy's. there are a lot of names for this stuff, right. what is your take away from their stories? if you had to summarize them all, what is it that you want the international viewers watching this to think about this overall conversation? yeah, um, you know, i think it's still my, this is a problem that has a solution. we know that in the world to save more lives and make the last one

useful, is to remove and destroy these women's rights and more funding needs to be a power priority. meaning, you know, like, let's make sure that your words are happening all the world. you're in china, nations happening. it's not just, you know, the latest report shows that i mean, mar, there's also as new rejuvenation, syria, as new damnation, right? this is a little problem with these 30 countries impacted by these deputy is governance, positive emission. so we know that there's a solution, we just need to reach our highest as part of funding that is consistently being allocated to support countries like while they're trying to move forward from this . and i hope that in addition to, you know, the funding support from united states, other countries also do not forget about legacy warners and places like laws.

claudia. yeah, i guess and you know, the list is going on and you know, it's really the media needs all to pay attention to this. and she does not have because while the warehouse has already lived in over 50 years, people are still being named and injured today. you know, and i think that what changes now was it is the more dollars will be invested in this. yeah, absolutely, that is the hope a appreciate your time and the work that you and your group do. circle up the lot is the ceo of legacies of war and chair, person for the us campaign, the band land mines and cluster munitions coalition. you can follow her on twitter if you still call it that, like me and sarah loved all out. thank you so much for your time, sarah, based. all right, that is going to do it for this episode. i've noticed operandi the show that digs deep into foreign policy and current affairs. i'm your host manila. chad. thank you so much for tuning in. we'll see you again next time to figure out the m. o

the, the quintessential foreign policy g. and yes, so one of the greatest mass murderers in history kissinger might have been bolt and much more because death was not on timely with his legacy. still, hans, us, in many ways he initiated some of the worst aspects of american foreign policy. the, the, the

tax just for the 1st month of, for the semester across the us will probably that's up to me. i been in the school, the state in the polls and it's a full of them in my own way. this to the football stadium. shy away in the conflict of interest to assume because of the issue of the you pretty much to release the the the

civilian thoughts did not stop for the last hour, months from now coming from home over the southern gathered a little the city of how do you this is bombed, why is role has the idea of that just to on list the same with caleb destruction and that area as the daily lives initial invasion in the know for region. although it has to be full strongly and solely in northern gone. we're also doing so now in the southern parts it will be no less strength. and those are the of analysis that the coastal bypass road will be open for civilians to head south that the previous car that has turned into a was though a red cross spots button says that those safe places that the guy that we do is option of displacing the pressure even higher.