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hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter a little western. the leads are in a state of panic. the world is crumbling before the rise. they resort to fake news lies and deception. instead of talking about the american back genocide and gaza, we're told anti semitism at home is ramping, or the trump is a tyrant when they themselves resort to a thor terry means to undermine democracy. the discuss these issues in mor, i'm joined by my guess george, send me well we in budapest, he's a podcast or at the capital which can be found on youtube and locals and emeritus. we have martin j e as in or award winning journalist and commentator gillian cross up rules, and the fact that means can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate it and

start out with georgia in budapest. i suppose there's not much debates anymore. the public sphere has just been so co, completely corrupted work more as piece piece is war. so if you hate someone there, the next tebler, i mean, so it's really boring. it's kind of a manic in way of looking at the world. it tells us our media is so silos that people only will listen to what they want to hear. i mean, we, we, we saw the saga over the, over the week with the american university presidents, you know, um, do you condemn ultima has a do support genocide which are obviously completely ridiculous. questions to be asking a lot of other important questions aren't being asked george, but in this environment we live in. i mean, it almost makes a caricature of mccarthyism. george. there's no question um, and it's a mazda full, uh, changing of the subjects of something that an american media and of course,

american policy makers. and the thing thing because of a very good a doing. when you don't want to talk about one thing, you change the subject and talk about something else. so, we see we have more or more evidence that this war in your brain has been mazda minded from the beginning by the united states. and this little ally or poppy or whatever you want to call it, they the united kingdom on. and so we see what the, what goes on every day in gaza. it's a, it's, it's for risk and we see out of the, well, the react the, we have a vote in the united nations in which the 13 members vote for a ceasefire. the united states, um, uh, you know, rejects that, you united, gave them again app, stay ins. and what do, uh, the american media is all good. what's the big issue? what's the, what's, what's the, the,

the really salient math that we have to address rather than to anti semitism uh, in the united states. and of course, there isn't really any evidence to present for this just as a they don't have anything. so you're just making it up. and it's very similar to what we went through in 2017 when we had the off the effects of the shop victory by trying. but of course, you know, in a different way the shop uh, breaks it both. well, what, how do we explain this? what do i, what, what, what do we talk about now? well, i think i can be the lead small and the, you know, we didn't, we didn't do anything wrong. so therefore it had to be rush or rush, or would this something, you know, something you know, matching ations but one of time what it is they did, but i'm sure will find out an answer. so yeah, um what, what, what, what's it this is all about? oh, its anti semitism? well, we'll just make it up. you know, we will, we'll wake up what, what, what this anti semitism is, but we'll just keep repeating it. and then when,

when the new york times rates is on the washington post to beat them under the atlantic and everybody else, and then it just becomes an echo chamber. we're talking about something that is a part of the real, but it's totally made up. yeah, well, but the wrinkle in all of this martin is that or that not many orthodox jews, particularly in the dotted states, do not recognize the state of israel. they think it's a, a, a, is a, it's a fake. it is historical expression. it has nothing to do with their religion judaism, and they find zine is them to be a part you could tell there's a lot of bins, railways they'd be of exactly the same way. so if i gets there, if i somebody's huh. christmas pictures. yeah, it's, it's a, it's a really convenient, really cheap throw away, provocative polemic attack on anybody who has an opinion. anybody has an opinion, you know, and, and that's been an egypt response for such a long time. now i'm told is absolutely right about the big media. i'm political organizations using it to change the subject, you know,

to georgia list away from where they should be writing about, you know, and the real, the real story in both time, which is a daily real um, absolutely, um, apocalyptic, generous, like was being carried out by israel and how we can affect this and used to come as one of the, you know, how we're going to re cups and re edit this whole thing like a hollywood movie. i'm present it to our children or grandchildren under university professors. and historians general this and the say, no, we actually didn't happen to not, but i mean i'm, oh, well, and i brought it up using invoking historical reference here. i mean, it's very much in a style and ask, you know, know people, oh, no problem. i mean, and that's what they basically want to make mistakes were made mistakes on it. that the a, through the official history, you've got to feel a little concourse. denial is going to be coming around again. um, you know, goes

a holocaust denial and the anti semite code, you know, which is plates and so you, because evictions is now to anybody, but particularly john, this, the, i think is so ridiculous just becoming so foss ago that now you have a situation now where by might be factors, but a few days ago, there were murmurings from the international court. yes. you see in the hague that it might look at um, will crime allegations against israel and, and miss neal, who and what was miss neal's response? you made a video, been english, and he said, this is a december 2015. i need to go really make it up, you know? so that, that's how that's, that's the limit of just how far this falls could go. but you know, the whole idea of the worry now that we no longer now know the difference between fake news and the real, the real narrative it. so any other channels, this is, this is a very interesting turning point. i mean, october 7th,

probably will go down in history for a variety of reasons, depending on how you think about the situation and what will eventually result. so there are too many people in power, dell on or remember what happened on j. uh, on october 6 or what happened on october 8th, that's going to be the problem, george. but for me, one of the saddest things is that the great supporters who crusaders for free speech conservatives, they've given up the ghost too. and that's why we're making this program george bill, that's right. and there was indeed the absolutely shocking when we had those the university president. and so these are the, the 3 i'm the 3, the most prestigious universities in the united states, as your universal pennsylvania, mit hava and, and they were just being a red x over the coals. oh, is something completely fictional there. uh,

they somehow advocating genocide of the jews that there uh, the rambling that is lead liberal, elite universities, you know, way in which there are a very high percentage of joyce students. but in these universe it is, there is ramping that the 7th is on. and let you know, yes, it was, at least the phonic was a kind of a trump invalid the charge. but it was overwhelming simple for what she did. you know, you had um, lauren's drive that gonna be coming out. yeah. i mean, i may not like least divani, but she really did a great job there. and then we had the morning jo grab and everybody is so hot shearing this song. and this is a total science was, i mean is a lives the address thing in the, in the united states today, there is a, you know, the, there's a raging anti semitism and people calling for the genocide of the jews. and then when you're off, well, what's your evidence for this? what, what, what is it when we get it, can you show me where the somewhere was?

somebody done this? well, it really isn't then like i'm a oh yeah. well that slogan um, from the river to the sea palace line will be for yeah, that, that, that involves the destruction of israel, which means a genocide of the jews. what because that's just simply their interpretation. but that non sensical interpretation that like, why is this uh, reality, and then people tweet out, oh yeah, people going to get holler, they're going run st gas the jews. and then what some of that will give me one example, one example, anybody? anybody in any particular hobbit or anywhere else in a prominent book that plays st gas the jews? well, there isn't. that doesn't matter is the, and that's why the analogy with russia gauges is. so app set both. can you just find the one evidence, one piece of evidence where when we, which trunk colluded all the rushes into fit in the election just to, to do but trust your case. verizon. but, but that the by, by dint of repetition, which way we live in, in this complete fantasy one. so i'll get all the positive. well they,

they looking at because i think this is actually the of a risk that goes to visit monsters. what's going on? what's going on in the united states, they're arguing about uh, the anti semitism hip look up is apparently all these, these were on the road to power. and apparently martin in, in israel all the talk is about the release of the hostages. this from the scan coverage of what's going on and gaza, mostly because people in israel are not interested. okay. and intentionally. and i find it very curious that if you said from the river to the sea and with as will oh, be free. would that be calling for the genocide of palestinians? i don't think there's any one way to interpret that way. no, i think these slogans tend to get exaggerated and conveniently misinterpreted on a grand scale. you know, pretty well what we're saying. what is unprecedented is a new level, a new volume, new mess of fake news now, which is just all to everything is just don't see how we talk about the subjects is

disposing out john this report on them. you know, i mean, it's getting to the stage now where people are starting to wake up. and unfortunately, you have the last 10 or 15 years mainstream media has made a conscious decision to follow and to replicate social media. social media is now the new mainstream media. social media is the new platform which is distorting all these things, you know, and i think these slogans of these, these things um, such as the one that you cited or others you know, are being used as tools for propaganda for, for field we also have the case and the last the new cycles, george of the weapon ization of rate. you and i did a separate pod cast on that. and when in the investigator i permit, i don't have it written down here. but the investigator, when she was asked by journalist and this is really media, you know, what are you going to be presenting evidence of? it's all my job to do that. i'm not a journalist at your job to do it, but she's making claims and nephews. ations was the same times you saying i,

but it's not incumbent upon me to produce any evidence to back up my claims. i mean, if not, isn't circular. i don't know. what is george? perfect. exactly. so she put together this team of 15 women. um and um and when this report from the higher ed kind of auster about the the evidence they said, well yeah, this on my job to find the evidence. i mean, you know, they will probably find the evidence in about 2030 years because, you know, many went in and out dead and all the women and upcoming forward. so now, as you making this boss assertions, i mean, you know, just saying, oh, you know, rapes that good. you said there was a, a policy of mass rates. and also she may have made it a, made the assumption that there are videos, but we can't show them. i mean the exact, the that's our, their game when the, what the issue of evan is. oh yeah, yeah. well, literally you go all of these videos on the ground. how does kind of gram channels

. yeah. well, where all of it, i mean if the, if the publicly available and you should be able to just show them. cuz they're all in a, i mean, you know, the city of the arts, i gotta jump in here and we have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on bakeney and stay with archie. the, [000:00:00;00] the, or as a result of live, it's can be cited by lines. these can be expanded by a true importance, and we can never be kind of

a stations that transparency is an extraordinary john. mystic patrice then just succeeded in finding the documents that existed in making them available to the world public. i mean, what could be more moving back by publishing information and sharing information with the public. he was exercising the rights for a speech he did. so in the public interest watched us or mom realized pen smith and, and honestly, to relate continuously. and i know why advice may know who is the guy that illegal anymore wisely voltage us. it's for to be on box weighing a $175.00 used to virtual defense. it's all we're going to lift that,

stay the welcome. that's across stuff. were all things are considered and peter will bill this the home addition to remind me were discussing big news. the okay, let's change gears gentlemen. while we have this, um, what i just think is this the fiasco about how to twist and turn and reinterpret and dismiss what's going on and god. so we had the same a new cycles. martin is the sudden fear that donald trump might come back. and if he called us back, do you watch like abuse and $8.00 that you want revenge? okay to. and he was a trumpet given an interview with sean hannity. and he was asked that was sent to the same question. you know, are, are you going to do it? i'm paraphrasing here. are you going to take revenge on your political,

both and trump, and he has trump in style, said on day one on the 1st day. and he talked about drill, drill, drill and close the border. of course, that was interpreted all to the liberal, the eco system is that yes, these grow that most statute is a swastika on a shoulder. okay. i mean, it was just, it just a, do you think you're watching the babylon be? it's so absurd, but these people say, and i'm not saying this is a trump supporter, i'm just looking at how media is being weaponized against democracy. because we all know the polling out there. now i've always dismissed bowling, but when you get down to certain congressional districts, that's when i start taking an interest. okay? because that's what wins elections. okay. not any kind of generic ballot or anything like that. so we're getting close here and there are panicking, and so they have to trump is and that's the next step works. even though he wasn't hitler really when he was president, i'm not sure how that works,

but that's what they're saying, martin. but that's, that's a, that's a, that's the sort of slightly abusive would i piece of use of the word hipley because that suggests that we in the west, i agree, america hated hitler. and we didn't really well, we hate to him as an individual, but we didn't hate his. his policies and his fascism. another 2 and i think so from coming back in is uh you have a very similar situation in america that you have in person. you have to contend as he was so bad, who are so underperforming in terms of what we traditionally regard as political of political hour and terrorism. and these days, you know, is people of voting no, not for what they want to look for, for whom they want 17 against the kinds of the let's. that's how binary and pathetic and simplistic american politics has become in there. but the prompt to come back and i put money on it and actually put money on it. i think it's becoming

a search and see more and more every day because the item is just made such a dog's breakfast. always in time of sold to me, particularly on the phone policy. so you know, because we've got a data genocide happening in gauze now with the possibilities of the regional was around, you know, it's just incredible. you, ukraine is just such a mess. you know, we talked before about the 7575th bus, a of, of nato pencilled in for the june. and how is binding gonna, you know, just cruise through this without taking an absolute battery. i mean, but going back to know your point about distracting in the gym this away from the real news agenda. trump was an absolute genius. this absolute genius. i mean, you know, we, we, he did it for us generally, as we didn't even realize until we started counting or articles how many pieces per month we were writing with trump in the headline because he was an absolute genius of just saying something or to do something completely stupid, totally polemic,

and it distracted them into a circus of big media jobs away from what they should be reporting on. and you know, i think we're going to expect more of that from trump to get some next time in an oversimplification of some of these big subjects, you know, but yeah, what can you say um fort from is that a woman go, you know, and this is what i, i'm really annoyed when people people talk about binding. trump had an opportunity, an old method option to which an awful lot of people understood if he'd gone for it to attack a run when you had this, a american try and being hit by reinforces and in the go on. like remember when you guys wensel's, we met ordered missile strikes against syria, always i think with somebody at m b. m dc said fine when he's become president, finally, he's presidential. okay. because of that. yeah. i, i want to clarify with every everyone here. i think a dog's breakfast is a bad thing. okay, but my dogs like back in the morning, i just want to clear the air on that one there. but you know, george, it's a good and yet, you know, this is this resurrection of this. it seeing

a new version. it's a 2 point. oh about the trump is a tyrant. it's no coincidence when you look at bindings paulding numbers. martin is absolutely right. we have this and needless senseless more and you brain that they won't back away from. and then, you know, we're supposed to close our eyes and ears, about one of the most, capt. probably the most catastrophic human rights violation in our lifetime. and so that's thing, something gentleman that's really saying you don't think no. yeah, george. yes sir, that exactly. and again, as we're talking about earlier about the, the distraction, let's talk about the real news. let's talk about the a, something that's a fantastic old, recently obsession with tom is also a way of, uh, changing the subject. so that the, you know, the role of the, the belief media could be talking about the fact that this war in gaza is being enabled by the united states. i mean, the, you know,

the bible ministration isn't just offering diplomatic support is, or if it's actually pouring in weapons for you. but even when people watching this risk destruction the united states gets boring and weapons and i'll skip a more, a money for more weapons. so rather than that, and they're not plugged in, they're not particularly transparent when it comes to the type of weapons and that it's really very much in, in, in, in the, in, in the middle of the night. ok, here's because people are asking, you know, if you weren't here and asking the is we're asking that demanding, asking them to use more precision and they use, they send these to 1000 pound bombs. how can that ever even be precise? that mean that's like take out a city block. ok. and then the sports events gets, i'm sorry to interrupt your to keep out that. exactly. but instead of that, so we have the new york times washington, both on the atlantics going now publishing these multi pop, multi contributes a,

uh, uh, pieces on the original on of trunk, all the terrible things that trump is going to do. if he comes back, i like this i, we both leave nato and i was like, really upset about that website. apple. but i'm right. oh my god, trunk is going to leave the nato and, and so we're worried about something that is fantastic or something that is down the road. you know, the election is still a year away. god knows what's gonna happen during the coming. yeah. but we're talking about that and then everyone everyone is exposed. really thing of this for really the, this awful thing is going to happen, which is trump coming back. well, what about this? what about the lead people dying in your brain? a little bit with dying in the gaza. well we didn't, we don't talk about that, which will give us something that is entirely of at this stage of fictional, the fact is, trump hasn't been in power for 3 years. is by done. this is by these was,

these are vitamins bothers. this is a tribute addressing that, i mean you, the video, you probably sold that to jimmy, don't have the little item on robert de niro, because again, it's a really, he's in an interesting, typical sort of figure. rather than, they're always up as a hate or a trump and i, you know, he just talks about how he wants to punch him in the face. you know, take him in the grind or whatever. and then when he's off, somebody goes or cnn, austin, um, you know, well, what exactly is it about trump? did you find so detestable? well, i don't know really. um, he's just a crazy guy. i read it. there it is, like, you know? yeah, well it the, you know, like from, i think so. and he can't even explain what it is. he hates about drum at these people like that and sean, penn, they should just stay in the, they're acting late and i, and i think the right actors. okay. but that their political views doesn't deserve air time. but you know, martin, that is that they're setting up uh for them. it least in the american context here

with the election here is the, is the, the new more on the trump's supporters? i mean, i think that's what it's all about. it's a, they make their chatting, trump, and he's in every room. if you don't know donald trump is, then you've been living under a rock for 8 years. ok. i mean, he's a very more well known quantity, but they're candidate in that and that they're part of your preference of the democrats are increasingly divided. they have an unpopular president, and so the way you deflect is just how bad trump was, even though if he was a dictate or george. and i've talked about this a lot that he was a dictator when he was president. you better change the definition of what a dictator is, because he was the worst big dana. and then we're in the, in the history of dictators if that's what you want to call a, go ahead mark or. yeah, he's, does this a no good? what does it dictate? so the interesting thing i find about trump is you talk about the, the, the impacts of what's, of,

what's going on in america and how people coming out of sort of which sound to gives a support is a wonder how many people in america would be curious to know what's going on in the middle east, because in the many regions in this part of the world. most, if not all released, the arab leaders of this part of the world, or waiting for trump to come back. the old banking on that they're all putting the last book on trump coming back. i'm fixing all these problems because you have this kind of malays this, this a pass between uh, most of these countries and the button, the ministration, instead of just basically waiting for the bite ministrations to move on. because we come, you know, lowest countries comp will count. the difference is the current agree on, on really on a number of huge issues. and just recently, just uh, 2 days ago, russia and opec agreed to cut over production again, which is another smack in the face for bite. and there's another reminder that you don't tell us, well, international or prices are going to be, we tell you, you know, again, you know, we're,

we're waiting for this weather. we talked about morocco and the western sahara. jessica um algeria or bigger issues in the middle east about um and certainly now this is even impetus for somebody of his career though you can jets in to come sense best fuels has together and stopped the blood shedding. cause i think, i think some of my trump could do the, i mean the demonstration, trump and button here is button can only really, you know, cool. 4 seats, 5. cool. so for the end this bloodshed blessing, trump would go for that. so you would actually see, you would actually, you know, issue ultimatums to, to, to the time the really convince of that this thing with this, this thing it, this issue in the united states has so much in stone that it, that's why we're seeing the reaction to george last to 35 seconds to go ahead. what i think but not is that is very interesting and engage the americans and the british. they live in their own little bubble, they,

they take it for granted that so the hatreds are shed by the rest of the world and they don't seem to realize that many positive what they think of the term view as being relatively good years. there wasn't any new was um there were openings in certain parts of world towards be such as in with north korea. and the bible is just stuck in the past and i is just start getting this cold will eventually is uni, polo will moment. and i, i'm and there's nothing good can come out of that. yeah. and there's so comfortable and that that's no comfort zone. that's what they seem to understand even though and they never, uh, never engenders any kind of positive result. gentleman, that's all the time we have one of the thing, my guess in america, ash and in budapest and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here in our dc and next time. remember across top of

the, the out probably her my little story because the model girl that i got you, no problem seem to them out of the know the things arguments he, i suddenly drive i showed my brother through. he was sudden to help people for a lo so now i never looked at searches as being saved. well, i guess i lost my list. that's the outcome of chicago police. it'd be gang chicago is like, you'd be a photo of the police. you really think your life as another crime, say this could have been a doctor, or nurse could have been the next president. we can't keep losing people out here. the,

the explosions reverberate in the south of gaza, or the bombing of agricultural land. and the also law neighborhood, east of rafa, is occurring along with nearby area is really forces continue their attacks on the generally a refugee camp. as this place, palestinians are pushed further south where the bombing intensifies thousands playing. this being said, they don't know where they can find safe shelter. we don't know where to go be forced us to leave, but no one gives any clarification. they told us to go to the tunnel street, but the bomb does their firing both bullets and miss tiles. any thought as to the