the, the, [000:00:00;00] the israel's, as the mistakenly cubes, the 3 hostages had by him, asked him, gaza after wrongly identifying those individuals as it's right outside during the fighting. and she's at the ideas mistakenly identified hostages as a threats. as a result, the soldiers fired at them and they were killed. and protested, wrapped in tel aviv in front of it. and is there any defense ministry building deadline and straight to the holding on the government to do boy, to get the remaining hostages back a bowl and reportedly admit that it's already is falsified evidence to incriminate russia in the devastating 20 ten's late prospect

cube polish president. at the time it said that on male, in building 20 percent of the ballots were raped and broken, and disgusting as the us electro fees and move in full swing, a new polls suggest, but more than 20 percent of americans we use median followed during the previous presidents and election have admitted to vote abroad after these update this out. thank you for stay with our team to national next. this was a lot. the was a blowing is something that is probably more complicated than it seems. i would venture to say that most of us would like to believe that we would blow the whistle on waste, fraud, abuse, or illegality. if put in the position to do so, we were all probably raise to tell the truth and to do the right thing. and i would

say further that most of us one blow the whistle if the issue were protection of our children of babies. why then did it take one special woman to do just that? she's our next guest. i'm john carry onto welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 yes, mean we're charging me is a food safety inspector, and a noted whistleblower. she studied chemistry and biology at the club. bernard university in the on france and food industry techniques at the university of multimedia before doing her ph. d, work in food technology at the university of law and she then worked as a research assistant at that same university in 1990 yes mean joined the world health organization in geneva, where she became a scientific expert and director of food security and food aid. beginning in the year 2000,

she served as corporate food safety manager and assistant vice president, responsible for food safety at the food giant nestle. her qualifications were impeccable in 2003, following a complaint from parents. yes, mean, proposed that the company withdraw from the market, baby biscuits being manufactured by nestle and beginning in 2006, she called for an audit on the toxicity of baby products in 2009, a large scale food poisoning, incident effect, and 300000 babies in china, 13 of whom died. this was after eating nestle, baby biscuits, the director of the offending group at nestle was promoted and became yes means manager. he took away her responsibilities and relegated, heard of menial tasks, and in 2010, she was fired. in march, 2011, she filed a complaint against nestle with a local court in switzerland for moral and psychological harassment. 9 years later, in 2020,

the court finally found that she had indeed been harassed and intimidated. that was in what it's called. an insidious matter. yes, mean retards, rejoins us today. welcome to the show. yes. mean we're very happy to have you. thank you very much for your invitation. so pleasure. what a story. this is. yes. mean you tried for years to do the right thing for the most part, nobody would listen to you. and then when babies began dying, they fired. you tell us how this whole thing started. what was it that 1st made you think that next these baby biscuits were dangerous and could actually kill children? well, i have to say that my story has 3 periods. and the 1st 5 years, i noticed a lot of dysfunctions and food safety management. and i tried to improve the

situation of the problem started as one of those persons managers who are responsible for some of knows negligence is. and that's the case of, for instance, maybe biscuits which i gave as an example, was promoted as my boss. and you started to retaliate against me. now the issue of the baby, this good, which i have given as an example of violations, but it's by far not the only case of dysfunction and violations that i experienced was that it basically, uh consumers were complaining that the baby's birth certificate thing. and then a baby became a blue red, and they had to turn the child upside down to get the biscuits out of the church and the child was suffocating. so with these consumer complaints, of course, i us the project to be recalled or the day at the age of

consumption to be increased is about by the doing, by protesting against this case. i was exposing a manager who was negligent and as was knowing that children by suffocating was putting the projects on the market. so in 2006, that's the 2nd period of my life is mostly and he became the director of quality management in the head office where i was working as the head of food safety. and he became my boss. and he started to retaliate as part of retaliation. he saw that to you immediately as well as me, really me harris me. but not only that, he several times in my work, it prevented me from doing my job. and he gave us the wrong instructions. course instructions,

and this was instructions led to some other programs. and during the 2nd period of my life was mostly i started to do blue to blue do with so internally with the top management. and i did this for 4 years with the same temple as they were harrassing me. i was reporting to the top measurement which was going on. and the top management closed their eyes a just a note my reporting a instead they just pages and their supporters in my harassment and bullying. as i said, those are tells you that in switzerland i dismissal and it's very easy. just job to get 3 months salary. and you can dismiss and it was so that's like what have dismissed me. they didn't like my approach to food safety management. but they

didn't, they decided to hire me to destroy me. and this mentally disorder, my carrier discredit me by the degree. and then at the end, when the rest of the incidents which was happening for each i had one before the management became more and more guilty of negligence. and so the harassment continued to increase and it's finished with the fake investigation into my harassment. they refused to orders for food safety, and i found is to be unacceptable that the neighbors refused to audit our operations for food safety. and i asked them to fire me and they did. this was the end of my 2nd period. that was after 10 years i was fired. i'm done to, to tell you it was when i started the lawsuit against mostly and this period

the last of 12 years. i was fighting this blood for 12 years in cost. and during this period, they also suited back uh, i had several quotes and it was a long a site and includes. and finally, this year in 2923. i won against mostly the court going down. let's go for a for an intensive along horseman is just sort of my carrier. they also recognize that they made a fake investigation and they did not put off my recent glowing report and to the top management of mislead me is to see you, the corporate governance and the compliance manager in the early part of the scheme assessment. why do you think it was that the company did not pay attention to your warnings?

was it that they were more worried about the bottom line, where they're not safe guards in place to make sure that something like this didn't happen? what was it? well, and principal says there was on paper safeguards measures because yeah, the code of business conduct, which was the thing that you should be a staff should be reporting anything wrong that they see. they were saying there's only 2. and this was a system which was set up after the engine case. so, so on paper we had a system, but the, uh, the system has use limitations. that means if i would report that some critics or stealing products, they would perhaps pull it up on my recent billing. but when someone is reporting on miss doing a superior and top manager was projected,

then they will not fall off even if they had the life of consumer results. they and i should also say, there is, of course, the bottom line, but more important than the bottom line is their own bonus is their own bonus. because in 2005, that means a month, december 2005 and months before all my trouble starts. my struggle starts in january 2006. misled top management had link bonuses to project with rules. that means if you read the real products, you would get less bonus. so this is what, this is what caused that to be had the major outbreak of for food poisoning in china and 2008 with 300000 babies. got antics again to to the middle of mind. you should know that a year before mister,

they had this similar incident united states, but pet pets was intoxicated with pitch woods, which was got them new. does this minimize so in this land you that there was the risk of milan? mine contamination? been room at 2 in china because in defense with incidence, digital material was coming from china. so that's the new and i had issued an instruction that we should be monitoring a rule material for any emerging content and image the mind was but they didn't, they refused to do it. as a result, a year later, they got to, to add another intoxication. this time it's incense formula in china with an s leopard food. that's the sort of incense formula with got them and they just went online and they had to be through frontier market. they claimed this la

claim that the contamination was not a high level to a point that was caused intoxication. i'm the if you to index occasion to another company, send it to but i have evidence of from internal, there was a need to email it, which was saying that mostly projects but also highly contaminated. so, what's happening? huh? netscape height is going to immunization. i don't know because there was no profit investigation into netflix products. at that time. i was already billing the results for 3 years and that was real. i'm doing so. and the year after this incident, we had another incident in i states where $77.00 people got to elevate to equal i 157 which is the killing the bacteria. and again,

i had been really into research for 3 years before this incident on 2 months before that i had been seeing doing the rec director of operation and asking this again for an audit of oral variations. and he just diffuse just views and they never the less they made this fake investigation into my harassment. and they dismissed me right after that. yes, mean we hear a lot from people on this show that the atmosphere for whistle blowers in switzerland is difficult. we hear that many switch companies are not punished for violating the law even after the whistle. blowers revelations, what happened to nestle after you went public and did anything change once the court found in your favor all those years later? well, um 1st i answered the 2nd question. uh,

nothing changed weaknesses. uh the proof is that it does just last year. and this led to another incidents we to the pizza read the same error as in the incidental vehicle. united states in 2009 was repeated in this incident. that means that solver what's going terminated and they didn't do anything and they didn't even listen to employees who were in forging a lack of hygiene into factory and, and then just incident. this happened last year to the children died on 53 orders, got severely ill, fast for life. you were speaking with. was the blower? yes. mean, what talked to me about her revelations, the baby biscuits manufactured by nestle resulted in the sickening of 300000 children and the depths of 13 of them in china. thank you. yes. mean, stay right there. we're going to take

a short break and when we come back we're going to talk about the current environment for whistle blowers in europe. see to. 2 2 the, the valley, her, my little sister store. okay. the model girl that i got you, no problem seem to them out of the know nothing there to make the side of the drive

i showed my brother through. he was cited to help people for a lo so now i never looked at searches as being the same. well, i guess i lost my list. that's the outcome of chicago police. it'd be gang chicago is like to give you a photo that police you really think your life as another crap thing. another one. this could have been a doctor. a nurse could have been the next president. we can't keep losing people out here. the the what the next, what was the lowest? i'm john curry onto we're speaking with yes. meeting with charging me about her whistle blowing in the food industry and the protection of children. good to have you with us. he has mean thanks again. thank you. yes, mean, i'd like to ask you about your court case,

which you filed in the swiss can ton of bowed. the court condemned nestle group for failing to protect you when you made your revelations. one of the things that came up in the media when you won that case was that this was parliament had really done nothing substantive to protect whistleblowers in the country. we hear the same thing about this with banking industry. what can you tell us about changes that may have been made to protect whistle blowers know, even though i have been reaching writing 2 alternatives time and again, they just it miller. and i would say is even worse. because as you know, there is a international labor organization has established a convention against bullying and harassment. a drawer by those have to work to, to manage the only country who is refusing to rectify this convention. so they

are differently not willing to protect to whistle blowers and we're sundays in switzerland uh, harassment and bullying of the employees or was of numbers is toner, right. that is allowed. i'm wondering too if nestle eventually addressed the problems that you revealed with your whistle blowing children died because of the toxicity in the baby biscuits. what changes did the company make after you blew the whistle? did they correct the situation? finally, and what happens with the families of the children? well, i but there is ever a stories. you know, there were the babies who suffocated bits of biscuits. but because these babies were very small, 8 months old, the pounds were next to them could take out the biscuit,

so they didn't die. this bit, these babies didn't die. and so basically, the parents didn't to do much except a accept pertaining to the company. on the other hand, there were some babies with died of choking the same problem, but to be done other products. and they, some of them complain to a quote when to quote in for us. and they also won their case. but the compensation that they received was very, very little. it was basically almost nothing $100000.00 if you buy them to a $100000.00. and the, what you should notice is that is it was similar to run who died. and each time this leg didn't change uh didn't to learn any less than didn't change the product. so a year later, another charge

a year and they to another charge died. and each time they say, no, we are okay. we have done nothing wrong. is the fools of, is this world of desire. essentially, this is the same as in china, where they are putting products on the market incidents formula on the market in violations of the left to norm of china. when i reported the case to the court interested, then the reply of this claim was that this is the 4th of regulatory authorities that they didn't have to ride the regulations. they have done nothing wrong to after nestle fired you wrongly. i my dad and you filed your court case, you became something of a, of a media personality. how did that affect your ability to find work? was the situation difficult for you? what did you end up having to do to put food on the table or to pay your bills? well, uh, so what i should tell you is that i was to, to the traumatize,

actually to traumatized because i was my, my wife was my passion. and i was really believing in my work and it was not only that this top management did nothing but my colleagues also kept silent and do shocks me tremendously. and i could not even hear any more towards who safety. i was. i was very and my ties and depressed by this experience. i couldn't even think of working anywhere else because it's mostly like dues. how is it a f as well? so that's was my feeling. but i never the less i had to apply for other jobs and i did, i tried to apply for jobs other. oh sorry,

that's also that's myself. but there was something else which was happening. first of all, and that's led blacklist as me. and they had also told me this is that you will never get any more job in dispute. the 2nd thing, they has also went through the my a dismissal by decide that i had the difference of opinion that my bus. so of course, wherever i would go, there was a okay, if they would always thing that nestling doing because netflix to begin their power for a company. so they're right, and perhaps my ideas are wrong. so with this statement, nobody would believe that i was confident i was doing my job properly. so basically, i looked for a job for 4 years. i didn't get a new job. so for the 1st 2 years,

i had an employment which has made to survive. after that, i borrowed from my retirement fund, that means i hit save money for my retirement and i live with that. and um, the minimum of the expenses that i could manage. i, i live with that and i borrowed a little bit from my family. and that's it. so that's how i supervise spending as much as i could. and using my retirement fund. yes. mean after your whistle blowing and court case, you were honored by many different organizations for what you had done. what work are you doing now, and what advice would you give other whistle? blowers facing the same challenges that you faced? well, um, actually i just,

i was dismissed in order to approve do that. so i am confident and what about is my vision? and specifically, because if it was actually i talking my credit ability. uh so i was and i published the silver books and that's a good idea. and in books on all food safety should be managed. so i basically put all my experience on the, in books. so for several years, i just continued publish articles and sharing my experience with duels, whether it's food, safety, management, or inverse of lowing or edit or in areas of justice or writing letters to alternatives in order to raise the awareness. so basically, for the last toes, years of been been reduced, this work,

my books and i got award united states and my and security and my books are being republished right now. so this is the work which i did, plus, advising, other whistle blowers. that means coaching other people in just the past, but um, my advice to this of lawyers, i usually listen to them and they evaluate the case. and i wrote, it shows based on the situation that needs a rather recent blowing is the duty like it was mine was the gulf which was safety manager as was responsible to blow the result. i was responsible to report to the 1st thing i look is that are the responsible for ruling the resume or not like a,

a, an auditor, a compliance manager. if we safety manager, they are responsible to build a list of other that otherwise they may be liable. the 2nd i will look whether they have a family to run. and if they have the potential to find another job and how much do they do? they are to actually is this persecution that there was, they're sticky, they would have to go through. let's run where they're jo, supported by their families, which is their age watches, their resources, county survive. if they don't find a job. so i will look at a number of criteria and based on that, i will give them advice of what they should do, reminding them that their 1st responsibilities towards their family and children

and environment that society is not supporting present miller's to. i'd like to thank our guest. yes, mean will charge me for joining us today and for sharing her story. and i'd like to thank our viewers. this is a show about whistle blowing, but sometimes the issue of whistle blowing overlaps with something even more important. protecting our children, they are the most vulnerable of all of us. they should be loved and taken care of physically and mentally. they should not be subject to illness even death, just because adults don't want to do their jobs. thanks for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto we'll see you next time the. 2 2 2 2 the

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