economies having all the resources, we have all that we need to make a difference in the world. but until we stop relying on huge foreign exchange is we are not going to achieve that. so i'm going to ask, will you be willing to consider returning a foreign reserves to nigeria for instance, and allow a commercial banks to manage the foreign reserves, the case off nigeria, and indeed many african countries is only the most recent example of. * for decades, the 2 leading financial institutions up in parts, i'll say, well, 10 scheme to keep previously called a nice countries and a never ending cycle of dates to take a closer look at some be a situation. somebody, i is the 1st african countries to signal a private sick to death default, but it is not to the last one. the general perception is that the will bank to the i am if and the world trade organization. i hope you fight to prove it. see how that and diseases in the developing world. how is that? in reality, that is far from the truth is also been cases we knew will bank has used loans as political tools. that's we call the case if you've gotten the 1st is when president

and was severely said that the country would we choose to borrowing and not to give into. the push from southern institutions was responding to the banks decision on the east african nations internal affairs. it is unfortunate that the world bank and all the actors there to one to curse us into abandoning our face culture principles and sovereignty by using money. they really underestimate all africans. these financial institutions not only refused to acknowledge their contribution to many states current predicament, but a no reply positioning themselves, as saves in the latest crises for archie, i'm the wheel couldn't get in so heinous bag started as com is where you can get for the details of the story is we're following is our, i'll see you again in 30 minutes. the

it wasn't blowing is something that is probably more complicated than it seems. i would venture to say that most of us would like to believe that we would blow the whistle on waste, fraud, abuse, or illegality. if put in the position to do so, we were all probably raise to tell the truth and to do the right thing. and i would say further that most of us would blow the whistle if the issue where the protection of our children of babies. why then did it take one special woman to do just that? she's our next guest. i'm john, carry onto welcome to the whistle blowers the

. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 yes, mean we're charging me is a food safety inspector, and a noted whistleblower. she studied chemistry and biology at the club, bernard university in leon, france, and food industry techniques at the university of mount ph before doing her ph. d. work in food technology at the university of london. she then worked as a research assistant at that same university in 1990. yes, me enjoying the world health organization in geneva, where she became a scientific expert and director of food security and food aid. beginning in the year 2000, she served as corporate food safety manager and assistant vice president, responsible for food safety at the food giant nestle. her qualifications were impeccable in 2003, following a complaint from parents. yes, mean, proposed that the company withdraw from the market. baby biscuits being manufactured by nestle and beginning in 2006,

she called for an audit on the toxicity of baby products in 2009, a large scale food poisoning, incident effect, and 300000 babies in china through tina of whom died. this was after eating nestle, baby biscuits, the director of the offending group at nestle was promoted and became yes means manager. he took away her responsibilities and relegated her to menial tasks. and in 2010, she was fired. in march, 2011, she filed a complaint against nestle with a local court in switzerland for moral and psychological harassment. 9 years later, in 2020, the court finally found that she had indeed been harassed and intimidated. that was in what it called, an insidious matter. yes. mean will charge me joins us today. welcome to the show. yes. mean we're very happy to have you. thank you very much for your invitation. so pleasure. what a story. this is. yes. mean you tried for years to do the right thing,

for the most part, nobody would listen to you. and then when babies began dying, they fired. you tell us how this whole thing started. what was it that 1st made you think that nationally as baby biscuits were dangerous and could actually kill children? well, i have to say that's my story has 3 periods. and the 1st 5 years, i noticed a lot of dysfunctions and food safety management. and i tried to improve the situation of the problem started at one of those persons managers who are responsible for some of those negligence is and that's the case of, for instance, maybe biscuits which i gave as an example, was promoted as my boss. and he started to retaliate against me. and now the issue of the video describes which i have given as an

example of violations. but it's by far not the only case of dysfunction and violations that i had experienced was that it basically, uh, consumers were complaining that the babies were suffocating and the baby became a blue red. and they had to turn the child upside down to get the biscuits out of the church and the child was suffocating. so with these consumer complaints, of course, i asked that the project to be recalled or the day at the age of consumption to be increased. but by doing it, by protesting against this case, i was exposing a manager who was negligent and as was knowing that children by suffocating was putting the projects on the market. and so in 2006, uh,

that's the 2nd period of my life is mostly and he became the director of quality management in the head office. i was working as the head of food safety and he became my boss. and he started to retaliate as part of retaliation. he started to you immediately. i so let me really me her as me, but not the only that is several times in my work. it prevented me from doing my job. and he gave us the wrong instructions. course instructions, and this was instructions led to some other programs. and during the 2nd period of my life was mostly i started to do blue to blue do wish so internally with the top management. and i did this for 4 years with the same temple as they were harrassing me. i was reporting to the top measurement which was going on. and

the top management closed their eyes a just a note my reporting. instead they just pages and their supporters in my harassment and bullying. as i said this, it tells you that in switzerland um dismissal is very easy. just you have to get 3 months salary and you can dismiss and it was. so that's like what have dismissed me, that is a life my approach to food safety management. but they didn't, they decided to hire somebody to destroy me. and this mentally disorder my carrier discredit me actively. and then i guess uh when the rest of the incidents which was happening for which i had one before the management became more and more guilty of negligence. so the harassment continued to increase and

it's finished with the fake investigation into my harassment. they refused to orders for food safety, and i found this to be unacceptable that they was refused to audit our operations for food safety. and i asked them to fire me and they did. this was the end of my 2nd period. that was after 10 years i was fired. i'm done to, to tell you it was when i started the lawsuit against mostly and this period the last of 12 years. i was fighting this letter for 12 years in cost. and during this period, they also suited back uh, i had several quotes and it was a long a fight and includes. and finally this year in 2023,

i won against mostly. and the court going down, let's go for the were and then to see along horseman is destroyed my carrier. they also recognized that they made a fake investigation and they did not put off my recent blowing report and to the top management of netflix as me is to see you, the corporate governance and the compliance manager in the old part of the scheme assessment. why do you think it was that the company did not pay attention to your warnings? was it that they were more worried about the bottom line, where they're not safe guards in place to make sure that something like this didn't happen? what was it? well, and principal says there was on paper safeguard measures because yeah, the code of business conduct, which was saying that you should be,

staff should be reporting anything wrong that they see. there was thing, there's only 2 and this was a system which was set up after the engine case. so on paper we had the system, but the, uh, the system has use limitations. that means if i would report that some critics or stealing products, they would perhaps put it up on my whistle blowing. but when someone is reporting on miss doings of a superior and talk manager was projected, then they will not fall off even if they have their life of consumer resent stay. and i should also say there is, of course, the bottom line, but more important than the bottom line is their own bonus is their own bonus. because in 2005, that means a month,

december 2005 and months before all my trouble starts. my struggle starts in january 2006, misled top management had link bonuses to products with roles. that means if you read through the products, you would get less bonus. so this is what i have. this is what caused that to be had the major outbreak of for food poisoning in china and 20085300000 babies. got antics again turn to the middle of mind. you should know that a year before mister, they had this similar incident. united states were pet pets with intoxicated with patch woods, which was got them new does is minimize. so in this land you that there was the risk of milan, mine contamination. been room at 2 in china because in the pets with incidence. digital material was coming from china. so that's the new and i had issued an

instruction that we should be monitoring a rule material for any emerging contaminants which the mind was, but they didn't. they refused to do it as a result, a year later, they've got to do another intoxication. this time it's incense formula in china, where an escalate pet food. that's the sort of incense formula with contaminated with mine. and they had to be through frontier market. they claimed netflix claim that the contamination was not a high level to a point that was caused intoxication. monday, if you to, into instigation to another company, send it to but i have evidence of from into and there was a need to email it, which was saying that most of the projects, but also highly contaminated. so what's happening,

huh. let's go. hi. this is going to immunization, i don't know because there was no profit investigation into netflix products. at that time. i was already billing the results for 3 years and that was really do is so. and the year after this incident, we had another incident in united states where $77.00 people got to elevate to equal i 157 which is a killing the bacteria. and again, i had been a really new research for 3 years before this incident on 2 months before that i had been seeing the direct director of operation and asking this again for an audit of oral variations. and he just diffuse, he just views and they never,

the less they made this fake investigation into my harassment. and they dismissed me right after that. yes, mean, we hear a lot from people on this show that the atmosphere for whistle blowers in switzerland is difficult. we hear that many switch companies are not punished for violating the law even after the whistle. blowers revelations, what happened to nestle after you went public and did anything change once the court found in your favor all those years later? well, um, 1st i answered the 2nd question. uh, nothing changed with nestle. the proof is that it does just last year. and this led to another incidents we to the where the same error as in the incident of equal united states in 2009 was repeated induced incident. that means this dollar was gone, terminated,

and they didn't do anything. and they didn't even listen to employees who were in forging a lack of hygiene into factory. and. and then this incident happened last year to the children died and 53 others got severely ill, fast for life. you were speaking with was the blower? yes. mean, what charging me about her revelations, the baby biscuits manufactured by nestle resulted in the sickening of 300000 children and the depths of 13 of them in china. thank you. yes. mean, stay right there. we're going to take a short break and when we come back we're going to talk about the current environment for whistle blowers in europe. see to. 2 2 the,

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[000:00:00;00] the, i really thought that we were going to die i crawled all the way to the right. and then i hid behind the board. and this is how to continue to stick with the system. i basically want to make sure that this is too dangerous for a regular civilian should be in the hands, the people who are in st. that's taking away the welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto we're speaking with yes. meeting with charging me about her whistle blowing in the food industry and the

protection of children. good to have you with us. he has mean thanks again. thank you to. yes, mean, i'd like to ask you about your court case, which you filed in the swiss can ton of vote. the court condemned nestle group for failing to protect you when you made your revelations. one of the things that came up in the media when you won that case was that this was parliament had really done nothing, substantive to protect whistle blowers in the country. we hear the same thing about this with banking industry. what can you tell us about changes that may have been made to protect whistle blowers know even do i have been reaching writing to alternatives time and again. they just it miller. and i would say is even worse. because as you know, there is a international labor organization has established

a convention against bullying and harassment was why those have to work to, to manage the only country who is refusing to rectify this convention. so they are differently not willing to protect to whistle blowers and we're sandy's instruments and then uh, harassment and bullying of the employees or reserve numbers is totally right. that is allowed. i'm wondering too if nestle eventually addressed the problems that you revealed with your whistle blowing children died because of the toxicity in the baby biscuits. what changes did the company make after you blew the whistle? did they correct the situation? finally, and what happens with the families of the children? well, i but there is ever stories. you know, there were the babies who suffocated with the biscuits. but because these babies were 1st mode, 8 months old, the pounds were next to them could take out the biscuit,

so they didn't die. this bit, these babies didn't die. and so basically the, the powers didn't to do much except, uh, uh, accept, complaining to the company. and the other hand, there were some babies who died of choking the same problem, but to be done other products. and they some of them complain to a quote when to quote and for us. and they also won their case. but the compensation that they received was very, very little. it was basically almost nothing $100000.00. if you buy them to a $100000.00 and that what you should notice is that it is, it was similar to run who died. and each time this leg didn't change uh didn't to

learn any less than didn't change the product. so a year later, another charge a year and they to another charge dive. and it shawn, they say no, we are okay. we have done nothing wrong is the fools of is this world of desire essentially, right? this is the same as in china where they are putting products on the market incidents formula on the market in violations of the 2 norm of china. when i reported the case to the court interested, then the reply of this today was that this is the fault of regulatory authorities that they didn't have to ride the regulations. they have done nothing wrong to after nestle fired you wrongly. i my dad and you filed your court case, you became something of a, of a media personality. how did that affect your ability to find work? was the situation difficult for you?

what did you end up having to do to put food on the table or to pay your bills? well, uh, so what i should tell you is that i was to, to the traumatize, actually too traumatized because, um, i was my, my wife was my passion. and i was really believing in my work and it was not only that this top management did nothing but my colleagues also kept silent and do shocks me tremendously. and i could not even hear any more towards food safety. i was, i was very and my ties, i'm depressed by this experience. i couldn't even think of working anywhere else because of this news like this. how is it a f as well?

so that's was my feeling. but i never the less i had to apply for other jobs and i did, i tried to apply for jobs other. oh sorry, that's also that's myself. but there was something else which was happening. first of all and that's led blacklisted me. and they had also told me this is that you will never get any more job in this field. the 2nd thing, they had also much of a my, a dismissal by decide that i had the difference of opinion with my boss. so of course, uh wherever i would go, there was a, okay, it, it, they would always thing that nestling doing because nestlings to begin their power for one company. so they're all right and perhaps my ideas are wrong. so with this statement, nobody would believe that i was confident that i was doing my job properly.

so basically, i looked for a job for 4 years. i didn't get a new job. so for the 1st 2 years, i had an employment which has made to survive. after that i borrowed from my retirement fund, that means i had save money for my retirement and i live with that. and um, the minimum of the expenses that i could manage. i, i live with that uh and i bought out a little bit for my family. and that's it. so that's how i survive. i'm spending as little as i could. and using my retirement fund. yes. mean after your whistle blowing and court case, you were honored by many different organizations for what you had done. what work are you doing now,

and what advice would you give other whistle blowers facing the same challenges that you faced? well, um, actually i just, i was dismissed in order to approve do that. so i am confident and what about is my vision? and specifically because issue was actually i talking my credit ability. uh, so i was and i published the silver books and that's a good idea. and in books on all food safety should be minor. so i basically put all my experience on the in books. so for several years, i just continued publish articles and sharing my experience with the world, whether it's food, safety, management, or inverse of lowing or edit or in areas of justice or writing

letters to alternatives in order to raise the awareness. so basically, or the last toes years of been been reduced, this work my books and i got award united states on my end security and my books are being republished right now. so this is the work which i did, plus, advising, other was of lowers. that means coaching other people in just the past. well, my advice to this of lawyers, i usually listen to them and they evaluate the case. and i rented it shows based on their situation. doug, news and weather result blowing news. the u. t. like it was, mine was a group which was safety manager as was responsible to blow the result. i was

responsible to report to the 1st thing i look is that or the responsible for ruling the resume or not like a, a, an auditor, a compliance manager. if we safety manager, they are responsible to the, with the other the otherwise they may be reliable. the 2nd i will look whether they have his family children, and if they have the potential to find another job and how much debated they are to actually is this persecution that there was. they're sticky. they would have to go through lecture on where they're jo, supported by their families, which is their age watches, their resources can this survive if they don't find a job. so i will look at a number of criteria. and based on that, i will give them advice of what they should do, reminding them that their 1st responsibilities towards their family and children to

environments not society's, not supporting visual miller's. i'd like to thank our guest. yes, mean we're charging me for joining us today. and for sharing her story. and i'd like to thank our viewers. this is a show about whistle blowing, but sometimes the issue of whistle blowing overlaps with something even more important. protecting our children, they are the most vulnerable of all of us. they should be loved and taken care of physically and mentally. they should not be subject to illness even guess, just because adults don't want to do their jobs. thanks for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto. we'll see you next time the. 2 2 2 who,

when i was just going to save house because of the application and engagement because the trail when so many find themselves will support. we choose to look for common ground the the israel says he mistakenly killed 3 hostages. hell want him as he can gaza after wrongly identify them as a threat to remodel. i saw the boat such as during the fighting and change at the idea of mistaken. we identified hostages as a threats. as a result, the soldiers fired at them and they were killed. protests dropped in tel aviv in front of the east, really defends, administered, building, demonstrate as a pulling on the government to get the remaining hostages back and