or it did has nothing, lee, cause it has been a frankenstein monster that the united states has generated since the late 19 ninety's since the orange revolution. and then ultimately with the 2014 over throw and the generation of this nazi genocide against the russians which president bruton stepped in, to stop r t that com is where you can get more details of all the stories we are following . i'll see you again at the top of the out, the, [000:00:00;00] the,

[000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross path where all things are considered. i am peter little bill printed about ukraine. that makes the wes delusional, senseless. and now, right, dangerous, your brain will never be a member of nato. your plane will probably never be part of the european union. western pursuit of both goals has little to deal with ukraine actually, but rather immensely on a hatred of russia. the to discuss these issues as moore, i'm joined by my guest george samuel way in budapest. he's a pod cast or at the capital which can be found on youtube and locals. and in merrill cash, we have martin jay, he is an award winning journalist and commentator. i gentleman across black roles

in effect, that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciated probably start out with george and in budapest. well, i the lensky and his regime got uh, a little bit of, uh, a, i guess we can call public relations success. you know, the european union minus hungry, which big victor urban, went for a coffee, apparently. and then they passed, you know, this a world historic go back, you know, start the accession of ukraine into nato. well, yeah, it was a photo op if, you know, they all got to sing, come by. um, but it's basically my belief, meaningless at this point. and by the way, george don't guarantee bill can vote detail many more times down the road during this process, george, because that's absolutely right. and it is a very interesting issue that you raise about this extraordinary emotional

attachment to ukraine because your brain is, we know it's not a member of nato, it's not a member of the european union, and it has no, no real, you know, relationships with the rest of europe, and however, the leads in your, of the leads in the united states just will not let this go. they will not say, well, they don't, you know, our interest of this. and then i'm sorry, but your brain isn't really a positive it's, but instead it's become this uh, this thing that live a upsets over and over and over again. they, the rates, anybody who descends wrong uh this uh, they need to sacrifice everything for ukraine. and the question that you know, of a brief bought of it is, is this the, the heck of the hatred for russia, the need to do something about russia to destroy russia and, but otherwise,

it's really the has, it has no, no real, you know, the rationale of for it, and again we see that, you know, among the public that is very little interest in this world, or kind of the public itself is or the baffled by what, why, why we involved in this. and yet, when you listen to the television pundits is the additional, anybody who's not on board for all the way with ukraine, is somehow a marine reprobate, extraordinary phenomena. yeah. well, i'm, i don't know if it, we've seen a change in the discourse as long as it takes is more into it so long as we can. okay, i don't, i don't know how many people notice that, but you know, martin, you come from a country that was in the european union. so what is the value added for the european union to have a country like ukraine, where everybody else is paying their bills, their,

their and their economic vitality is not even worth mentioning at this point. it's a country on the global goal. and because emily and still, you know, there's something that you, we've talked about many times before. i don't know why anyone is talking about your grades future because the present hasn't completely played itself out. that will create the future. so why does the european union that already has a lot of problems want to bring in a bigger because it always thinks bigger is better. and when i was in brussels in 2004 and i witnessed the 1st expansion full, the eastern european countries, then there was a huge euphoria of this idea that the bigger we get, the further we spreads and more influence. we have the bigger a play we own the world stage and i think, you know, you kind was a bridge too far. i think it was just one last countries up to your opinion and probably didn't need it. so they didn't need all the baggage that came with it, but the, but that the sweetener that i suppose for the,

for the west was it was an opportunity to hit russia. and we know now, you know, we discussed on the show now for months about the, the, the 1st opportunity of a piece talks in a stumble where zalinski is not basically shrugged their shoulders and says, look, we've, we've been offered not a bad deal by russia. and boris thompson was flown in scope of the whole thing. is it no way? so way we are going to fight. this is a great overshoot. so you will never going to get another shot like this and added to his on the plate. so the whole story about to click about to a point. so what about windows and loses at the beginning? the west, nate? so i'm a, you sort of ukraine is a wonderful way to promote itself to shine, to, to seem, to be so much bigger and more prolific. that everything it does. and now we're looking at the losing scenario. now, you're trying to becoming an embarrassment and reliability. because if we carry on pouring money into this black hole in there, where would it take us bite and may well not be re elected because of it, you know,

the tory government in the u. k. my full european union has these selections, next june of 2024. it may well for the 1st time in his history of a majority of 4, right? i mean piece and here being part of which would be absolutely amazing. you know, so we now looking at ukraine as this recall systems often child who would actually really like to get rid of, you know, because it's really becoming such a liability. but there is still this romantic inclination, this attachment to your crime. but uh, you know, we might get so that we might just get through to the end and i'm, and raise this child properly and give him a future. but it's not looking good. is it particularly with any events? hello. yeah, it's, it's very interesting charge. i mean, they talk about them, i actually have to say they talk less less about democracy over the last half year . because ukraine isn't really one anymore and isn't going to have elections as and have opposition parties. it's attacking the church, left right and center. but, you know, going back to the,

the european union's grass to expand here. okay. okay. me to order one for coffee. and then the, you know, was basically an extension, but he did veto money and that's what really matters. and all of this year, you know, the photo ops everyone patting each other on the back. so put a black up somewhere. but now is the great philosopher bob. dylan's money doesn't talk it screens george. so let's try it on the other hand, or by him is a do make of like, like other politicians. he got a nice chunk of change. i mean, money right under it was entitled to he got the 10000000000 euros that i think is sweet and the deal for him. and that's why he was willing to go along with this. um, uh, deal with um, uh my crown and shoulds, whereby he would leave the room and then just as he left the room for the coffee, i get it right. everybody get the boat. and so that's the best way to go for the

champion of this, the 20000000000 euros that he's owed. so we'll see what he might do to get those points to george. apropos, apropos is really interesting. i was looking at some of the mainstream coverage of it all and wrote about good friend, new vladimir, put them. they always have to probably click the brand of the kremlin because it's all that's now is to stick that. and i always find that interesting. i heard about, he's elected how many times george 4 times and arrived from 9. so the idea of okay, i guess some people like him there. okay. but, but it's really interesting, you know, how they were, he is a black mailer. and what's the worst thing you do to a blackmail you'll give in? because you'll come back over and over. perfect. so you said describe okay. i think he waited masterfully got what do you want it? sure. definitely follow the spot. that yeah, exactly. whether you know or by and has many enemies within the e u and all the leading political blocks in the european parliament road lead to or last week to the european commission, don't give around anything,

don't give them least of them and yours, nothing, nothing. because as he said, he's a blackmail or, you know, you don't, you'll come back for more. so, um, is it going to get those additional 20000000000 yours? i think, you know, it's going to be quite a challenge for him. the problem is, but, you know, again, it goes back to this emotional attachment, is that, well, that's just more about and that's one out of 27. the question is, why did the other 26 go along with this, what you will, what, what's that? well then, what does they think they getting out of the same way? you know, we got the, uh, the, the baffling congress over the over the budget. you know, giving a 61000000000 for ukraine. i mean, the median for late, the republicans that revolting horrible republicans refusing to give, give you cream, one of what he needs. but all the republicans, it's only a small percentage of them that i'll being of during the have in order into the

influence. because republicans have such a small majority, but the big deal is, is, well, why does 90 percent of congress actually want to give the 61000000000? there's only about 10 percent of congress comprised by these. uh, i'll give up republicans that are being difficult. 90 percent want to do it? why what, what do they think they getting out of it? what's really interesting is, you know, martin, the you know, is talking about that small country of republicans. they are in a way, i suppose the secretly on their bed stand. they have a little, they have a portrait. and so lensky because the lensky will maybe help bring about securing the american southern border. who knew how valuable he could be for per, per a american conservative. go ahead. one. that's a huge question, isn't that when it was a dispute, a issue, you know, becomes the deal breaker for opening up more checks, more, a greatest lease of ministry from america? not at the moment where shutting our shoulders wondering, you know,

what's gonna happen next? lisa volpe zalinski himself, who got on the plane and went back to kiff with a very, very heavy heart. i mean, put yourself in his shoes. you know, he has to go back unto his co is does, he doesn't have ministers and senior ministry. if it goes, i've got no more money for you. the rackets up, you know, and what are those? i mean, i think what we'll see now in the finance the is called the rain man. well, the rain isn't coming anymore. the rain's not coming in more. so what happens to those people who won't have their, their own posted economies, they've got people to pay this. well, this is how corruption works. you know, i think there was several scenarios which you might see on folder the next few weeks. so a couple of months, it may well be that one or 2 of those individuals might leave the country. but i think come the pressure on this and then ask you to step down. we'll start to increase because many of those individuals will be looking at the situation. so can we put no more money?

nothing is coming in now. if we would go for peace and then let the e win with reconstruction aids that will give us access to a whole lot more money in the future, we can set up fake and chose. we create lots of fake construction companies. that's how we could cream off the topic. and so the pressure will always be the financial argument, but less keys. i seems to me to be hang on like a thread. i mean there's a number of americans, john is now writing opinion pieces as a uh, making references to is, is commander in chief. and so as a possible take, you know, as opposed to a new leader to take to replace him. so this is new tone now, which we're seeing from the west is from western coming types is that, you know, is, is days and i'm, but there's not much more like, i mean, like i said, they wouldn't want to be in his shoes, but to charge i mean, you know, the thing is that, you know, is a lensky ukraine. they are like they, the media likes to pick them, is victims. i could understand that you would brief,

but they are volunteers in all of this. and this is what's really peculiar is that they volunteer. if you gentlemen have been talking about the financial necessities here. nobody's talking about the death toll in ukraine. ok. they're talking about how much money they can make. okay? i usually don't. and the program on a question, and then we go to the break, but gentlemen, we're going to go to a break. and after that break, we'll continue our discussion on your credit today. parking the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures, design to simplify will confuse really once a better wills. and is it just because it shows you

a few fractured images presented as fast? can you see through their illusion going underground can 1941 with the nazis health relation, ultra nationalists, the massages proclaimed the independent state of croatia. shortly on the seizing power. they built the scene of us concentration camp a place associated with the was the trustees committed in yugoslavia during world war 2. use dash is used to come system to isolate and exterminate subs, roma, jews, and other non catholic minorities and political opponents of the fascist regime. conditions in the santa of us, campbell who renders the gods tortured to arise and the prisoners they send them to the concentration camps. so most of them died. it was

incredible genocide. the welcome at the prospect were all things are considered on peter. although this is the home addition to remind you, we're discussing ukraine. the let us go back to georgia in budapest, georgia. the pod cast a few days ago we've. we've looked at the barrage of the articles from legacy media, you know, the atlantic and was a washington post, etc, etc. out the return of trump is, is, you know, he's a dictator in waiting though. he was already president. that he wasn't the dictator . but yeah, we figured that out that there's another stream going on is a rush. this guy howling last is staggering. was the word okay, staggering. 83 percent, 85 percent of its own. it's a manpower has been handled. you know, the, the kill ratio is, you know,

what forever, you claim its 10 russian hill this over and over again. okay. and i saw it all across main screen here. so george crane is, is winning me, you know, it's up, it's almost done. but george, but after ukraine, russia is going to invade colon, and it's going to go into germany. how can these 2 stories exist the same time? cause i do this right? because this was the time the, the story about the 90 percent of the russian mom 5 has been wiped out by ukraine. which apparently of the findings of us intelligence, the late the media easily. a report of this was released in time for the landscape visit. see this has been visuals, money well spent. we did a great the great job giving him all of this money. we need to give him all but then that was the, the other story. and this is being peddled by the,

by the ministration, including, especially by binding to himself, which is that if we don't give the ukraine what a once rupture will win this war. and what happens then is that russia will frighten nato, and therefore united states will be directly involved in a shooting war with russia. and now this has been put forward in a paper by the institute for the study of war, which is the go to source for, you know, the legacy media in new york. and i was always like, it wasn't accordingly as the google study. well by, you know, this is another kegan's outfit. this is frederick vague. and which is robin akins bravo. and so, so that of that argument is that russia is now on the bring a complete victory is going to occupy the entirety of your brain. and therefore it will immediately be threatening poland the baltic states. and this is

a very serious situation for the, for the nato is a, this is the worst situation we've been since the 1991. we have the massive so yet forces a to do the ease. so this is the new line, which is that, well, if we don't give you brain, what are the ones we're going to be facing? hey, well, it's a style in the red army and they know time it so you know, you know, the business buying these do, i don't know. who's the same kind of argument in 1975 on, you know, funding, cambodia, and inside sales be, i mean the same car. oh, it's called the domino theory almost. but i mean, this is just, this is absurd here. and you'll hear in plus, you know, we have one point, you know, nato is not involved in this complex, but nato is now needs to be boys to get involved in this company, which they already are. i mean, there's so many layers of this don't make any sense. i mean, i mean it's like 5 dimensional chests without the pieces. go ahead. yeah, it doesn't make any sense. the only thing that makes sense is the button is word is

worried about his own legacy. and his own reelection bed, and you know, we mentioned on the show previously about the celebrations pencilled in full need. so next june to 75th birthday. it's gonna be pretty difficult for nate to invite them to stand up there and, and you know, watch the fireworks and do the silly handshakes when ukraine is just such as aust desired. and so i think something has to be done, and they all really scratching that really, really scraping the barrel now looking for a possible solutions. i think the membership saying, you know, hilarious as it was. i think as a token measure to keep the american top the moments and also a media, a distraction to, to pick a story. which is, you know, obviously the ukraine is thinking and by the time it, by the time the dust settles, i mean i also site visit. so that is his wife who was misquoted by the economist this week. she said, i really don't want my husband to to stand the 2nd time as president. now what she

really meant to see what she really meant was if we ever get to the situation where we have free and fair elections and that means that will reserve then in this scenario, in 5 years, 10 years 20. this time, i wouldn't want my husband to stand again, but you know what's going to happen? i think, in, in ukraine, as i said, i mentioned earlier is i think confidence crisis is emerging presidents themselves . and i think that may well suit the button administration if he can be convinced him to step aside and move out. there are actually does an intelligence officer. apparently, the american intelligence obviously is going on line a legal documents papers proofing, but the bug administration is actually prepared. some sort of us citizenship full, is that? so that's k. now whether those papers are fake or not, i don't know, they've been backed up, but at least one c i a officer that i've read about, they say they look pretty genuine. they say set him up with a home in florida with maximum security. so you can imagine so, you know, that's a possibility. i'm not just aggressively and i'm, you know, i'm,

but to that i haven't seen it before. it's me. this is a government in exile or is it just the payoffs? no, no, i think it's a, it's an excel deal where they give you an, an maximum protection. and another also is going, i mean, george, i'm sorry, i mean, i say the obvious here. so he's been residing in in t. m. now for the last 2 years and he's lived okay, but if he's because of the style he may be killed in florida, who's going to do that job and study the russians could have killed them any time they want it. i mean, they, they have 30 of the landscape flying around the world. i mean, you know, and the airport is a tax. they obviously needs to be written for the russian side, zelinski as an asset. net, but you know, because of the antics okay. it's worth what it's worth very well, but if he goes to florida, he could be have his life threatened, we'll never would threaten them there. and it wouldn't be the russians, george. no, the that's right. i just, the thing is the before the americans i,

i have to say that, i mean we, we talked about, you know, they, the, all the money drying up and so on. but i think ultimately they will come up with some money. they've in the 61000000000, not invest on that, but isn't it? but they're working on a deal. i mean they're sitting there. oh, she aging. oh and we're going to get, did they get to get him something? um they, you know, there's obviously some dealing, the worst may not happen before christmas, but he may happen it in january. the americans have invested a great deal in the ukraine. then i'll just go to a band and it is just not the way the americans operate. they could, they going to try and get well after 20 years. they didn't have candice. them about 20 years. 20 years. i mean that was a, that's a big it took a long time for them to to a bad the rush. it isn't the taliban in this game, right? no. okay, exactly, but that's why this isn't for them. they still regard this as a good investment because again, even $61000000000.00 a lot of money. um. but it's nothing is bucket change for the united. so it went to,

to split the difference, but the difference is with the difference. keep it going until the election. agreed . i don't think so. and the very least at the very least. ok martin jumping. now disagree a bit. both of you to create a goodness that i think so let's, he's going to be pushed out by the, by the ministration deal is going to be struck and it's going to be going out possibly before the may. so the stay replacements in the middle of a military way already as a home to military man. i mean, probably, i mean that's, that's the most likely scenario isn't it? is the, the, the commander in chief himself. what we'll take care of a seems to be popular and he seems to be effective. one of the installation is actually the final result. i guys might get what was the deal be then what, what, what was the fine? i didn't. okay. you replacing by the allusion, these in what, what's the deal in the short term, some sort of uh, almost some sort of seats far then and then longer negotiations off of the roman

martin is the russian. so i'd have to agree to that. yeah, yeah. well, it's a got no agreement to the fact that he was replaced and a different tactic, a different policy. okay. how about the trustees? no peace, no more? yeah, well, no, i, i think the beauty is very small guy. he's not going to, but you know, if he sees a change, a see change on the american side. and he sees the possibility of back channel and talks to work out some sort of informal, almost his way. keeps what he's gonna already know, negotiation whatsoever for those territories are already taken. you know, i know nato deal. he may well be happy with that. he may not need. so how's that, how does that know that the feed for russia? because then you've got a, a rum state ukraine that will be scooped up into native. i mean, they gonna do it in the, for the 75th, but they bought the law say, well, what's left of ukraine? what the, what the pot, the russian has them taken okay, is going to be a member of nature. so how does not know the defeat for us as a so if is it, i'm not sure it's great to see it. i mean it, it, it,

it stops the war and i think boots and once that i think he wants some solution to the longer to the point about savanski. and i think peter was actually right. so let's, he is an us to pitch in because i think coaching definitely wants let's get to be around to sign the final deal because that's what give it, that's what we give. it makes from quite a bit less. and then at the end of the forest, good. even sign a deal, he'll all be in florida. okay. i that's, that's fine. these pieces don't work for me. okay. again. you know, george, the, the problem with so much of this, um, uh, creating a hypothesis for a ceasefire for an end of the call like a very often even people there is very kind of sympathetic to wanting to end it. they never, they almost never take into account with russia, how russia would react, okay, rushes to in the driving seat right now. why would it change? of course. no, i, i agree with you and i think that was built into so many times that this war is not

about land. so the idea that he's gonna say he'll be happy with, say, taking 20 percent over your brain or with the rushes or choose something that wasn't really an objective that wasn't what lee. the whole purpose of the circle is special. military operation was it was to get in sure the ukraine was not a member of nato that's, that's the part that's the rush i have to secure. and that's why, in the sense these doomsday scenarios by the institute for the study was, have a sort of logic to live because they, they kind of figure out, this is russian subject to rushes objective is that ukraine, you know, basically, will not be about of nato ukraine will be in russia is all that, and that has to be the ultimate objective of russia. it's just if they, oh, they get a bit of territory and but the rest of ukraine is a member of nato. then you'd have to say, well then what is the war cheese? all right, but let me, i'll shoot you a question. if i can just show me that because you asked me want to, to, to, to, to find, to find one bucket to you. what happens in this present scenario? how does the present status quote continue?

you know, you're looking at, in the last 6 months, estimates of a $120000.00, you claim troops killed, you know, so let's, because popularity under question, you know, the countries folding unfolding. we don't see a quick fix militarily from the west, you know, so, so very well talking about getting a to some point, but some how does things, how do you see the next 6 months and you find 20 seconds george? well i, i think ultimately russia has to push forward for a victory. i think that they can be no other goals but essentially topple the regime in care of and and get this thing aid. avery seems as i will work out some kind of a deal with russia and also i think will not be a success. okay. i'm going to just put a pause on this because we'll continue this discussion next week. i want to thank my guess, americans in budapest and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us

here at our dc and next time remember, prospect mills, the chevy, i'm sure was a fish in unix, but then you for the longest, the camp coupled or i was a pretty sure what are your new to us, but then you with us because one shot the beloved spelling. so got you for me to some. so that's where, you know, you have them step is just a little bit slow. so i know control, so you have to remember the name on it sounds like only is a visual i'm losing in, but i do have, do you want me to let people come down? yeah, i'm literally so frustrated with as much. it's gonna get to play the show you a different level may assist you more and when you do it and gets insurance and which the technology you can pull it up at the let's just sponsor, excuse me, just go out. i don't put it in my 1st go where you did,

of course the just going and put in the see it is done with this. i think 0. this was was self employed. so sort of all the recent needs really, as strikes are reported to have killed nearly 90 palestinians in residential areas of northern get an idea of frames in mid if it killed 3 captives they can gather despite the wind, had them having and makes it twice like the incident sealed public outcry over the public don't understand how army we came out with the white interior shop. is it