rose, i think a little got a boost and that's why we say, uh, you know, a very healthy russian gdc number. i think it's 3 and a half percent or something like that for the year. oh wow. in europe we say refreshing you. okay. is in the session probably admitted in germany, france is in so it's more lopsided. you, colorado, i guess that the, the extra day you have these wesley properties that is played a role in lowering the economic growth in the west. because as vamp and risk of investment in the west, but no added all up and i think a lot a little, not all of the russian g d p number increase can be attributed to the, the counter effect of the sanction of getting these companies out of europe, now the warranty article also suggests that russia's handling all these depart just as reinforce the idea that brochure is perhaps a dangerous place for businesses to invest. what do you think about that?

well, i think the, you know, that's a false argument because you, you see other countries, not just the g side of other countries investing in russia. so if it were so bad, you have no other countries investing in russia. i think the problem is uh, the sanctions the, the sanctions were totally counterproductive in general. the west has really shown itself and the economic foot with the sanctions and the blow back has been far worse than the anticipated effect, which just hasn't come come through. okay, thank you very much. that is professor of economics and politics. jack ross list taking this through the issues. i'm much appreciated for your time. i while a pleasure is always to have your company here and all to i'll be back at the top of the next hour with more things is that you can join us the

the, [000:00:00;00] the i'm action or times and welcome back to going underground will cause to go around the world from dubai and the in the middle east. us defense secretary lloyd austin is scheduled to be in israel today. just over a week, off the washington veto to you a dropped in security council resolution of the you and calling for an immediate cease fire and gaza without the 10s of thousands. the majority of the women and children will have been killed by the time you are watching this with british

american and you nation weapons. joining me now from riyadh saudi arabians documents where i was okay. i couldn't like i'm right here. thank you so much. sure . no problem is okay, you have coming on. so whether this re fi on contract or pentagon bosley austin is in israel to meet and you know, give him a weapons or not. why do you think that, and you know, it's all this a top can asset panel that saudi arabia in the u a was gonna pay for all the destruction that we're seeing on social media. and obviously no one can bring the lives back that i lost every every hour. but what does he mean the saudi arabia in the you a going to pay for? it will. and well, 1st of all, uh, thank you very much for having me. i'm happy to be with you as we are going to go down the path of asking uh, this sort of questions we perhaps should go for 2 years back in history and question all the full statements, which is parts of the media strategy of success

a is really a government, i think one needs to have not just the grain of salt, but perhaps a 3 kilograms of salt. whenever there is an official statements coming out of any is really government. it's established in terms of research as well as uh, what we have seen in the past few decades to that is really government, not just the nothing. yeah. whose is really government use a certain tactics, one of which is such false media statements. and i suppose if there's one glimmer of light, that means the genocide it has been the whole world is now on the same side as the arab league. even canada and britain obtained would one believe. but but will relations change between saudi arabia and the countries that are harming the janice? britain and the are being union is still supplying the weapons,

killing those children that we see every how. how do, how would that affect relations between the world and the west and european countries in the united states as well. uh, 1st of all, uh we have to, uh, look at the weight off of, uh, of i think uh on the part to be uh, airbus, lubbock, mysterious committee under saudi arabian leadership. they are trying to use their relationship with those uh, western european countries and western countries in general to the benefits of serving the wait for word. i think it's much more we have to be realistic. i'm prismatic, if there's much more beneficial, pragmatic, practical, to try to use our relationship with them in order to push things in a positive direction rather than strain the relationships which are already under

a lot of pressure because of those positions you have, we would just have mentioned how much under pressure do you think? now a lot a lot, i would say a lot, a few look as the 1st stop is that the saudi led, the airbus lumnick, a mysterious committee, 12. it wasn't any western capital, it was china. this and itself is significant, not just because china at the time was the president of the monthly president of the security council. but because of sending a symbolic message to all of our partners that you are siding, you are on the wrong side of history. here you are on the wrong side of morality or values, what you preach on a daily basis to russia and other countries. you are on the wrong side of international law, international humanitarian law, and basic humanity. so this in itself is symbolic. a,

there are uh, tremendous pressure, so saudi arabia and other arab and islamic countries are using diplomatic tools. in order to encourage a convince those partners. we have some minor success, not grades, but nonetheless, it's something that's moved for words in the right. there's a direction it's not enough. 9 we have to accept the reality. nonetheless, it is one small step and the right direction. and we have seen britson change a little bit, it's position friends as well. and we hope that the most significant position that has the us will see some positive developments. or is it actually learn mosque and twitter we where we get our information from the effect pictures and images more than they are? well, that is changing opinions in the nato countries to it is

difficult at this point to draw rely a be a trusted links of causality is between point a leading to point be nonetheless, we can say that a twitter or x and other uh, new social media platforms have and less than the negative impact of media monopolies and the west, which do not reflect reality is but rather reflect certain political editorial positions that are far away from reality on the ground. they are siding with the aggressor with the apartheid regime of israel with the atrocities. and there is so much dr. inc, a did think of images coming out of palestine and we are seeing

a little bits of change in those mainstream western media. partly although i cannot say with absolute certainty, certainty, but partly because of breaking their monopolies pulver narratives over the stories . i'm facts and good parts to use social media platforms. yeah. and in western kind of a, in the united states, a huge numbers of hearing just about palestine and according to deposed. and yet, so these minister investment call you the finally reportedly said, saturday, israel normalization is still on the table. do you think it is on the table that we have to define what's on the table and saudi arabian terms means on the table means a way uh for word for palestine. alice 9 is essential and any step towards normalizing relations with israel. if normalization with israel will help

bring us closer to a credible task towards the city and state, then there's more than welcome. and i think although i do not represent any official point of view, i'm not part of any official. uh, conversations a or me things. but as a researcher, i think this is uh, the meaning of, on the table for saudi arabia. i don't know how the state department works because they appear in the state me the statement. i'm just gonna tell you that to think them saudi is connected to how mouse, which is a bizarre notion, but of the senate foreign relations committee, the vitamin deputies extra estates, and nobody could. campbells of israel is still interested in normalizing with saudi despite october. the 7th, so it's a strength to share a conjunction of the phrases that but the community, the united states is still interested in uh, fostering this of course, when,

1st of all, the closest ally of how much is mr. nothing, you know, and his government. let's not forget about they both thomas and the nothing. yeah. whole extremist phonetic governments agree on the number of issues. b, as the piece of process b, it's b as training, any peaceful, diplomatic solution, etc, etc. it was nothing yahoos, government actually that's pressured, but the government in order to funnel money to how much through as really intelligence services is right, the airports, etc, etc. and let's, this is an important element of context here. i asked 2 statements coming out of washington. we are used to different contradictory declarations. how much has a negative relationship with saudi arabia. it has been the case for almost 2

or 3 decades. let's go back to the turn of the century woodside. the rapier brokerage, a national unit, see a peaceful efforts between 5th and how much and mca, under the patronage of the previous custodian with the, to all the most got de la. ah, i'm promise broke. what it's committed itself to do. i'm actually not respect uh its uh, commitments in those meetings to the saudi arabian government. um we have uh, another uh, negative incidents and b and so in gears. so the notion to say, that's how the very best reports, how much effort and the 7th of october it's, it's just absurd. i think get daily. i mean, i must, was on the american side interior as far as i understand why on her ben consolidate notes and say, oh, hospital ship to, to gaza. and i mean, i suppose it wouldn't be daring, the, by the ministration not to blow it up,

but to protect and, and to help perhaps those uh people who, uh, wounded and in pain in gaza. it is, there is no shortage. well 1st of course, either i'd be a sent hundreds of tons of humanitarian aids and medical supplies, medical personnel, uh medications, food uh, clothing, uh, 10 some reports you know, the world health organization said medication and getting through summer boards even said anesthetic is not coming through these ratings of taking it. so i was gonna get to this point. uh, there is no short will for number one. so there might be a sense uh, ships, uh, airplanes, uh, by all means of transportation to hundreds of tons of humanitarian aid, medical foods and other supplies. number 2,

there is no shortage of humanitarian aid. there is a shortage of access or a lack of access to be more accurate. uh, israel is not allowing uh, access, or food. israel is actually committing a war crime, violate, think a long list of international laws, international humanitarian laws, by using food uh, medical supplies. uh uh walter, um uh, guys and other essential elements. the vital elements uh for the palestinian livelihood as a what then it wants to force them. it looks like uh, the ultimate goal of israel is to push everyone on the border of egypt. then create a dfcs to situation where its uh, forcefully displaced them. and to egypt it seems like that this is the plan. they have been bombarding costs,

but those would pretext of tunnels under ground. and that's been several weeks. we haven't seen any glimpse of any evidence of such things. it seems like there, there is a systematic effort to force phone palestinians to the egyptian borders as a 1st step towards displacing them forcibly into egypt. dr. i'm was okay. i'll stop you that more from this idea academic and right draft of this right the of the there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth. is the case of the med, most of the people. i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also of soon. this is 3rd world lunacy re washing press for so the funder line likes to say we have the tools

while we just start with stability and business deals to living on lives. have very close propaganda. you know, price here in new york. i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. some more questions, ask a better. the answer is will be the plug it back to going underground. i'm still here with some of the academic advising documents, so i was okay. we were talking about salvation actually in the webinar izing food and mentioned as a war, crimes 90 percent according to well, definitely programming cause i don't eat every day. what about then oil? i mean, it wasn't that long ago that the saudis were refusing blinking, so, begging for increases in uh, oil production, just before comp, 20 item to buy a gain. the americans wanted it,

but actually opec plus decreased production. could oil be used in this case? to save somehow, the children of the guys at the moment, as we know, israel is buying oil on these markets that one could make it very, very expensive for all their war planes and jets funded by the united states to my to slaughter so many children. well, 1st of all, i do not think i disagree with the leak drawn between the production of oil and the killing. v is really upper tides regimes massacre and genocide of the posting in children, men and women and uh, the elderly. i don't think that there is a link between the 2 that's points. number one, points. number 2, i saw the rape as a responsible energy producer and the energy global uh and the global energy

markets and the global economy. if we go back to the year 2019, everybody was asking us all sorts of, of things related to reducing production, increasing production accept truck for their own goals. not necessarily. um, uh, for the benefits of, for everyone else. the us asked us to reduce production, then in 2020 to the uh, to increase production. then they asked us a few years later to reduce to increase production, etc, etc. so saudi arabia, as a responsible energy producer, our main responsibility is to help maintain energy markets, stability, uh, threatening or playing with a commitment not respecting our commitments, contracts accept truck does not sure. uh,

international economies debility that's point to number 2 points. number 3, i question whether there will be a direct, meaningful impact. even if hypothetically we go down that path. our main clients are not in the west. our main clients as china, then japan then and this south korea, then the list goes on. so i question whether the jeopardizing our relationship with the global south would help palestine if anything, is leveraging color relationship as we have seen in the recent weeks, how the saudi arabian leadership of the era butterfly mich world symbolized by the assignment serial committee. how leveraging our relationship with those very same actors, how actually build an international momentum, calling for

a cease fire calling for upholding international law and putting pressure on the us . and the european backers of this is really apartheid genocide. so we will put those relations with china with india, with south africa, with latin america. we will put them in jeopardy. and i would argue that as a consequence of jeopardizing those relations, israel will gain a much more comfortable position internationally to continue the genocide it's doing against the palestinians, not the country. so i think we should reconsider the argument for an oil and bar. okay. do which the response from nature nations is of course being to i could be weaponized that propaganda media against gcc countries is saudi arabia and gcis. the countries,

are they prepared for the onslaught that to presumably is to be expected? because off it's a role in marshalling global support for palestine to um, i doubted uh, international transformations as the international system level do not allow. uh for uh, let's say, uh, i need creased pressure from western countries. as a consequence, upside the reagan leadership of those global south voices and countries and supports of palestine. um, saudi arabia, 1st of all, uh from a theoretical standpoint is uh, a middle sized power. uh its a swing power and those uh, global transformations. uh, in simpler terms, everyone needs to become friends without the rape. yeah. and i highly doubt that they do have the means to put a increased pressure on saudi arabia as

a payback for saudi arabian leadership of aero business alignment countries and global south country as well. as the problem i've gotten into their own people is, isn't it from corporate media or in western europe in the united states, not to go as to the rest of the world or perhaps so we have gone through much darker phases. you'll uh, we all remember uh the uh, fedex of mr. by the. where did that lead him? uh, finally he ended up coming to did the, uh, to meet with the saudi arabian leadership. uh, all those products after surgery, they refused. uh, as a responsible uh, energy uh, global energy superpower refuse to recognize oil and succeeded in keeping oil away from politics as much as we could. uh, by then preston, sanctions. if we didn't join efforts against russia, where did that collect? uh end up. so maybe it's more um,

different or directed towards local audiences than anything meaningful in the international arena. well, as regards human rights, real human rights, not those pursued the weaponized dogs, usually by nature nations. do you think britain, the united states and you, nations will never be punished for their role in the gaza genocide? definitely in different ways and different time frameworks. i argue that the rise of china and the western monopolies, us monopolies, and economic zones of influence spheres of influence. uh, that was one of the consequences of the rise of china. the recent events and reza and palestine and the western moral authority, their whole discourse and their efforts,

systematic effort to contain china is predicated at the level of the discourse on 2 things. one, the respect of the rules based international system. and now we are seeing them, the main aggressors, the main violators of the international, the rules based system, uh, international law, international humanitarian law, double standards accept trucks of truck shielding is really war crimes uh, from any li, international legal consequence. and their whole discourse about human rights, democracy and their efforts to contain china has collapsed in palestine and the recent events. where are the human rights of postings of children, the upper tides, a regime of israel's army, uh, captured a 9 year old child until come to

a streets away from his family, from his uh, neighborhoods to interrogate him for a couple of hours. where are the human rights? western governments positions. this is a huge, more a crisis for the west. and from that point of view, i think there will be due shareable. consequences for the west, for the u. k. for germany, for france and many other western countries. well, as you know, the pictures of that job won't be leading the evening bulletins on news channels in, in western countries. alas, russia in china one disease water, of course, what was the significance then of you already mentioned china being in full and of letting me opinions visit about to the u a and to saudi arabia, amidst the ongoing cottage in gaza as well. um,

we very much appreciate the support uh of, of china, of many countries, uh, south africa, russia and many, many countries of latin america and africa, asia. and in the whole world. i think it is very significant to see the whole world saying what, you know, by a unified voice, stop the carnage, stop the genocide and palestine. this carries a significant weight. but you know, the international criminal court, they had it is i think it's being on the show. green guy is investigating palestinian crimes. i think against his strategies and as a warrant out for vladimir push it is it, is it not really taken seriously anymore? that west and the conception of human rights? lesson european uh, uh its uh the balance of power. how it carries weight with those kinds of

procedures. uh, if anyone should be, uh, try it for crimes against humanity. it is a long list of his really officials, military and civil politicians, a civil servants, etc. a they have committed much, much more grave violations and crimes against humanity. but the uh, strategic weight of the west. a still there. it's still significant to the importance . uh, and the balance of power and back the balance of power has an impact. the direct, i'm sometimes in direct on international processes, one of which is the international uh, criminal court court of justice. yeah, i mean, just, just finally, i mean do you think you grain and now guys and over the bodies of kind of the civilians in both countries in both places, in palestine and in ukraine. the most people in the world is really here,

given the responses from native countries. uh uh that, uh is uh, subjects to, uh, a much uh, lived or uh, debate. uh, in order to suppose a multi polarity. you need 2 things. one as opposition. and we certainly have opposition to the us who gemini unipolar world order. but at the same time, we need the 2nd element, which is uh, a relative, a quality of power. we are yet to see that relative and quality of our i do not think that we have an even close uh, international power. uh that can uh, significantly challenge us had gemini and as a consequence of the lack of this 2nd condition or element, i do not think that we are in front of the emergence,

so from all tight polar world. but that is not at all to say that we are still under our unipolar world. that's uni polarity, is over as manifested by the challenge and the systematic opposition, the rise of middle size swing powers, the rise of the so called global south, etc, etc. dot com is okay, thank you. a thank you sir. and that's it for the show. continued condolences to those of having the killing him guys, and we'll be back with the brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch by role that social media results ends in your country. and edward journal going underground tivo normal don't come to us and you and all the episodes of going undergrads. these have been a man in

the the body of the strikes take a new and shelter and the maternity would in southern goals like kidding, at least 6 civilians including a child. we have some of which one strikes. not a single person to be felt old that or injured or is those with the white. try look this one. sure. look him through dice. in the middle of the own plate is really ask like someone who can tell us the news in a residential area. the terrace lawmakers slam is well pulling