3, how significant with losing us, simple be for you play, and i mean how it changed the situation on the battlefield. imagine ukraine as a raft of logs, etc. and what binds that raft together is the rope of american financial support in moral support. and that rope is dissolving, extraordinarily fast every day. so that entire raft. imagine coming apart it, see, that's what ukraine's future is. that's what ukraine's economy is. that's what ukraine's military is. and it has no hope. it has no future it, it has nothing because it has been a frankenstein monster that the united states has generated since the late 19 ninety's since the orange revolution. and then ultimately with the 2014 over throw and the generation of this nazi genocide against the russians which president bruton stepped in, to stop

a little and all of the stories we've been discussing and much more due to head over to our website. all t dot com. thank you though fuel company this i'll, i'll be back with more at the top of the next the hello and welcome across stuff. were all things are considered. i'm peter a little bill printed about ukraine that makes the west delusional, senseless. and now, right dangerous ukraine will never be a member of nato. your plane will probably never be part of the european union.

western pursuit of both goals has little to deal with ukraine actually. but rather a must be on a hatred of russia. the, to discuss these issues as moore, i'm joined by my guest george samuel way in budapest. he's a pod cast or at the capital which can be found on youtube and locals. and in merrill cash, we have martin j. he is an award winning journalist and commentator. i gentleman across black roles and the fact that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate it. probably start out with george and in budapest. well, i, it's a lensky and his regime got uh, a little bit of, uh, a, i guess we can call public relations success. you know, the european union minus hungry, which victor, victor urban, went for a coffee, apparently, and then they passed, you know, this a world historic. go back. you know,

this start the accession of ukraine into nato. well, yeah, it was a photo op it, and you know, they all got to sing come by. um, but it's basically quite believe meaningless at this point. and by the way, george don't guarantee bill can vote detail many more times down the road during this process. george, that's absolutely right. and it is a very interesting issue that you raise about this extraordinary emotional attachment to ukraine. because your brain is, we know it's not a member of nato. it's not a member of the european union and it has no, no real, you know, relationships with the rest of europe. and however, the leads in your, of the leads in the united states just will not let this go. they will not say, well, they don't, you know, our interest of this, and then i'm sorry, but your brain isn't really a positive, it's, but instead, it's become this uh,

this thing that live a upsets over and over and over again. they, the rates, anybody who dissents wrong uh this, uh, they believe, to sacrifice everything for ukraine. and the question that you know of a brief bought of it is, is this in the heck of the hatred for russia, the need to do something about russia to destroy russia and, but otherwise, it's really the has, it has no, no real deal ration out of florida, and again, we see that you know, among the public that is very little interest in this world, or kind of the public itself is or the baffled by what, why, why we involved in this. and yet, when you listen to the television pundits is the additional, anybody who's not on board phone, all the way with ukraine is somehow a marine reprobate, extraordinary phenomena. yeah, well i'm, i don't know if it,

we've seen a change in the discourse as long as it takes is marked into it so long as we can. okay, i don't, i don't know how many people notice that, but you know, martin, you come from a country that was in the european union. and so what is the value added for the european union to have a country like ukraine, where everybody else is paying their bills, their, their and their economic vitality is not even worth mentioning at this point. it's a country on the global goal. and because emily and still, you know, there's something that you, we've talked about many times before. i don't know why anyone is talking about like you grades future because the present hasn't completely played itself out that will create the future. so why does the european union that already has a lot of problems want to bring in a bigger because it always thinks bigger is better. and when i was in brussels in

2004 and i witnessed the 1st expansion bullet, eastern european countries, then there was a huge euphoria of this idea that the bigger we get, the further we spreads and more influence. we have the bigger a play we own the world stage and i think, you know, you kind was a bridge too far. i think it was just one of those countries up to your opinion and probably didn't need it. so they didn't need all the baggage that came with it, but the sweetness of that i suppose for the, for the west was, it was an opportunity to hit russia. and we know now, you know, we discussed on the show now 4 months about the, the, the 1st opportunity of a piece talks in a stumble where zalinski is not basically shrugged his shoulders and said, look with, we've been offered not a bad deal by russia. and boris johnson was flown in scope of the whole thing. is it no way so way we are going to fight. this is a great opportunity. we're never going to get another shot like this and headed to us on a plate. so the whole story about to come back to

a point. so what about when does and loose is at the beginning, the west, nate? so i'm a, you saw ukraine is a wonderful way to promote itself to shine, to, to seem, to be so much bigger and more prolific. that everything it does. and now we're looking at the losing scenario. now, you're trying to becoming an embarrassment and reliability. because if we carry on pouring money into this black hole in there, where will it take us bite and may well not be re elected because of it? you know, the tory government in the u. k. my full european union has these selections, next june of 2024. it may well for the 1st time in his history of a majority of 4, right? i mean piece, and you're being part of which would be absolutely amazing. you know, so we now looking at ukraine as this recall systems often child who would actually really like to get rid of, you know, because it's really becoming such a liability. but there is still this romantic inclination, this attachment to your crime. but uh, you know, we might get so that we might just get through to the end and i'm,

and raise this child properly and give him a future. but it's not looking good. is it particularly with any events? hello. yeah, it's, it's very interesting charge. i mean, they talk about them, i actually have to say they talk less less about democracy over the last half year . because ukraine isn't really one anymore and isn't going to have elections that as and have opposition parties. it's attacking the church, left right and center. but, you know, going back to the, the european union's grass to expand here. okay. okay. which are the one for coffee. and then the, you know, was basically an extension, but he did veto money and that's what really matters. and all of this year, you know, the photo ops everyone patting each other on the back. so put a black up somewhere. but now is the great philosopher bob. dylan's money doesn't talk it screens george. so let's try it on the other hand, or by him is a do make of like, like other politicians. he got

a nice chunk of change. i mean, money, right? hungry was entitled to he got the 10000000000 euros that i things sweetened the deal for him. and that's why he was willing to go along with this. um, uh, deal with um, uh my crown and shoulds, whereby he would leave the room. and then just as he left the room for the coffee, i get it right, everybody get the boat. and so that's the best way to go for the champion of this, the 20000000000 euros that he's owed. so we'll see what he might do to get those points to george. apropos after the pro is really into the i was looking at some of the mainstream coverage of it all and wrote about good friend, new vladimir, put them. they always have to probably look brand of the kremlin because it's all that's now is to stick that and i always find that interesting. heard about, he's elected how many times george 4 times and arrived from 9 slides. yeah. and okay. i guess some people like him there. okay. but, but it's really interesting,

you know, how they were, he is a black mailer. and what's the worst thing you do to a black mail you'll give in because you'll come back over and over. perfect. he's been described. okay. i think he waited masterly you got what do you want to george? that's what apologize about that. yeah, exactly. what do you know or by and has many enemies within the e u and all the leading political blocks in the european parliament road led to is last week to the european commission. don't give or bomb anything, don't give them least of them in your as nothing. nothing because as he said, he's a blackmail. you know, you'll, you'll come back for more. so, um, is it going to get those additional 20000000000 yours? i think, you know, it's going to be quite a challenge for him. the problem is, but, you know, again, goes back to this emotional attachment. is that what, let's just go about and that's one out of $27.00. the question is, why did the other 26 go along with this, what you will, what, what's that?

well then, what does they think they getting out of the same way? you know, we got the, uh, the, the baffling congress over the over the budget. you know, giving the 61000000000 for ukraine, i mean, the median for late, the republicans revolting, horrible republicans refusing to give, give you cream what of what he needs. but all the republicans, it's only a small percentage of them that i'll being of during the have in order into the influence because republicans have such a small majority. but the big deal is, is, well, why does 90 percent of congress actually want to give the $61.00 bill is only about 10 percent of congress comprised by these. uh, i'll give up republicans that will be difficult. 90 percent want to do it. why, what, what do they think they getting out of it? what's really interesting is, you know, martin, the, you know, is talking about that small country of republicans. they are in a way, i suppose, the secretly, on their bed stand. they have a little, they have

a portrait. and so lensky because the lensky will maybe help bring about securing the american southern border. who knew how valuable he could be for pur, uh, american conservative. go ahead. one. that's a huge question, isn't that when it was a dispute, a issue, you know, becomes the deal breaker for opening up more checks, more a great to slice of ministry from america, not at the moment where so you know, shoulders wondering, you know, what's going to happen next least, the votes lensky himself, who got on the plane and went back to kiff with a very, very heavy heart. i mean, put yourself in his shoes. you know, he has to go back unto his co is does, he doesn't have ministers and senior ministry fingers. i've got no more money for you. the rackets up, you know, and what are those? i mean, i think what we'll see now in the, in the finance the is called the rain man. well, the rain isn't coming anymore. the rain's not coming into more. so what happens to

those people who won't have their, their own posted economies. they've got people to pay this well, this is how corruption works. you know, i think there was several scenarios which you might see on folder the next few weeks or a couple of months. it may well be that one or 2 of those individuals might leave the country. but i think, come the pressure on some lensky to step down, will start to increase because many of those individuals will be looking at the situation. so can got no more money. nothing is coming in. now. if we were to go for peace and then let the e win with reconstruction aids that will give us access to a whole lot more money in the future, we can set up fake and chose. we create lots of fake construction companies. that's how we could cream of the topic. and so the pressure will always be the financial argument. but lensky is, i seems to me to be hang on like a thread. i mean, there's a number of americans genres. now writing opinion pieces as a, uh, making references to is, is commander in chief. and so as a possible take,

you know, as opposed to a new leader to take to replace him. so this is new tone now, which we're seeing from the west is from west and coming to it says that, you know is, is days and i'm, but there's not much more i think, i mean, you said you wouldn't want to be in his shoes. but to charge, i mean, you know, the thing is that, you know, is a lensky ukraine. they are like they, the media likes to pick them, is victims. i could understand that to the brief, but there are volunteers in all of this. and this is what's really peculiar is that they volunteer. if you gentlemen have been talking about the financial necessities here. nobody's talking about the death toll in ukraine. ok. they're talking about how much money they can make. okay. i usually don't. and the program on a question, and then we go to the break, but gentlemen, we're going to go to a break. and after that break, we'll continue our discussion on your credit today. parking the

look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given it by human beings, except we have such orders at conflict with the 1st law show alignment of the patient. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at the point, obviously is to makes a truck rather than fit the various job. i mean with the artificial intelligence, we have somebody in the team and the robot must protect this phone. existence was on the welcome. across that were all things are considered line peter level. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing ukraine.

the let us go back to georgia in budapest, georgia. the pod cast a few days ago we've. we've looked at the garage of the articles from legacy media, you know, the atlantic and was watching, impose etc, etc. how the return of trump is, is, you know, he's a dictator in waiting though he was already president, then he wasn't the dictator. but yeah, we figured that out, yes, this another stream going on is a rush. this guy howling loss is staggering. was the word okay. staggering. 83 percent, 85 percent of its over a manpower has been handled. you know, the, the kill ratio is, you know, what forever, you claim eve. it's 10 russian hill this over and over again. okay. and i saw it all across main screen here. so george crane is, is winning, you know, it's,

it's almost done. but george, but after ukraine, russia is going to invade colon, and it's going to go into germany. how can these 2 stories exist the same time? cause i do this right? because this was the time the, the story about the 90 percent of the russian mom 5 has been wiped out by ukraine. which apparently of the findings of us intelligence, the leak, the media easily. a report of this was released in time for the landscapes visit. see this as being visuals, money well spent. we did a great the great job giving him all of this money. we need to give him more. but then that was the, the other story. and this is being peddled by the, by the ministration, including, especially by binding to himself, which is that if we don't give the ukraine what a once russia will win this war. and what happens then is that russia, well, fred,

nato, and therefore the united states will be directly involved in a shooting war with russia. and now this has been put forward in a paper by the institute for the study of war, which is the go to source for, you know, the legacy median new york times is always psych, it would have caught at least the google study well by, you know, this is another kegan's out that this is frederick vague and which is robin akins bravo or and so, so that of that argument is that russia is now on the bring a complete victory is going to occupy the entirety of your brain. and therefore, it will immediately be threatening poland the baltic states. and this is a very serious situation for the, for the nato is a, this is the worst situation we've been since the 1990 is when we have the massive so yet, forces a to do the ease. so this is the new line, which is that, well,

if we don't give you brain, what are the ones we're going to be facing a, it's a style in the red army and they know time it, so you know, you know, the business buying these, do i don't know what is the same kind of argument in 1975 on you know, funding cambodians and i'm supposed to be, i mean the same car. oh, it's called a dog. very, almost very good, but i mean, this is just, this is absurd year, annually. and plus, you know, we have one point, you know, nato is not involved in this complex. but nato is now means to be boys to get involved in this company, which they already are. i mean that there's so many layers of this don't make any sense. i mean, i mean, it's like 5 dimensional chests without the pieces. go ahead. yeah, it doesn't make any sense. the only thing that makes sense is the binding is word is worried about his own legacy and his own reelection bed. and you know, we mentioned on the show previously about the, the celebrations, pennsylvania for nate. so next june to $75.00,

so it's gonna be pretty difficult for me to invite them to stand up there. and, and you know, most of my work some through the city handshakes when ukraine is just such as aust his own. so i think something has to be done and they are really scratching that really, really scraping the barrel now looking for possible solutions. i think the membership thing you know, hilarious as it was, i think as a token measure to keep the markets up the moment and also a media, a distraction to, to pick a story. which is, you know, obviously the ukraine is thinking and by the time it, by the time the dust settles, i mean i also site visit. so that's his wife who was misquoted by the economist this week. she said, i really don't want my husband to just stand a 2nd time as president. now what she read, he met this, what she really meant was if we ever get to the situation where we have free and fair elections and that means that will reserve then in this scenario in 5 years, 10 years 20. this time, i wouldn't want my husband to stand again,

but you know what's going to happen? i think in, in ukraine, as i said, i mentioned earlier is i think confidence crisis is emerging president himself. and i think that may will suit the button administration if he can be convinced him to step aside to move out. there are actually does an intelligence officer. apparently, the american intelligence obviously has gone online, leaked documents, papers proofing, but the blood demonstration is actually prepared. some sort of us citizenship full . is us that security now whether those papers are fake or not? i don't know, they've been backs up, but at least one c i officer that i've read about. they said they look pretty genuine. if they set him up with a home in florida with maximum security, so you can imagine so, you know, that's a possibility. i'm not just the grace of me and i'm, you know, i'll bet to that. i haven't seen it before. it's made it is a government in exile or is it just the payoffs? no, no, i think it's a, it's an x. so deal where they give them, you know, maximum protection and another also is going. i mean, george, i'm sorry. i mean,

i say the obvious here, so he's been residing in, in t of now for the last 2 years and he's lived okay. but because of the style he may be killed in florida, who's going to do that job and send me the russians could have killed them anytime they want it. i mean, they, they have 30 of the landscape flying around the world. i mean, you know, and the airport is a tax, they obviously needs to be re, for the russian side, zelinski as an asset. net, but you know, because of the antics ok. it's worked but it's worked very well. but if he goes to florida, he could be, have his life threatened, we'll never would threaten them there. and it wouldn't be the russians, george. no, the that's right. i just, the thing is the before the americans. i, i have to say that, i mean we, we talked about, you know, they, the, all the money drying up and so on. but i think ultimately they will come up with some money. they've in the 61000000000, not invest on that,

but isn't them. but they're working on a deal, i mean they're sitting there in the oh, she aging. oh, i'm just going to guess because they're going to get him something that, you know, there's obviously some dealing the worst may not happen before christmas. um, but it may happen in, in january the americans have invested a great deal in the ukraine. then i'll just go to a band. and if it's just not the way the americans operate, they going, they going to try and get well after 20 years, they did in afghanistan, about 20 years. 20 years. i mean that was a, that's a big it took a long time for them to, to a bad the rush. it isn't the taliban in this game, right? no. okay, exactly, but that's why this isn't for them. they still regard this as a good investment because again, even $61000000000.00 a lot of money. um, but it's nothing, it's bucket change for the united. so it went to to split the difference. but the difference is with the difference. keep it going until the election. agreed. that makes sense. and the very least at the very least. okay. martin jumping. now does

agree a bit both of you to a crate of goodness that i think. so let's, he's going to be pushed out by the button. ministration deal is going to be struck and he's going to be going out possibly before the may so best a replacement in the middle of a military way already is a home to military man. i mean, probably, i mean that's, that's the most likely scenario isn't it? is that the, the commander in chief himself will, will take care of it. he seems to be popular and he seems to be affected. what are the solution? exactly. yep. valid reason? i cause market. what would the deal be then what, what, what was the fine i didn't okay. you replacing by solution these in what, what's the deal up in the show to some sort of the, almost some sort of seatbar then and then the longer negotiations after the roman martin is the russians would have to agree to that. yeah, yeah. well, if they got no agreement to the fact that he was replaced and a different tactic, a different policy. okay. how about the trustees?

no peace, no more. yeah, well, no, i, i think the, the beauty is very small guy. he's not going to blow it. you know, if he sees a change, a see change on the american side and he sees the possibility of back channel talks to work out some sort of informal, almost his way. keeps what he's going to ready. no negotiation whatsoever for those territories are already taken. you know, a no nato deal, he may well be happy with it. he may not need. so how's that, how is that not a defeat for russia, because then you've got a, a rum state ukraine that will be scooped up into native. i mean, they going to do it in the for the 75th bus. they bought the same what, what's left of ukraine? what the, what the pot, the roster has them taken. okay. is going to be a member of nature. so how does not know the defeat process? i'm not sure if it's it, i'm not sure it's great to see it. i mean it, it, it, it stops the war. and i think boots and wants that. i think he wants some solution to the longer term. the point about cements k, and i think peter is actually right. so let's, he is an asset to pretend because i think coaching definitely wants. let's get to

be around to find the final deal, because that's what give it. that's what we give, it makes from quite a bit of a thing and then it's a not a book before you go to even sign a deal, they'll all be in florida. okay. i that's i find these pieces, they'll work for me. okay again and george the, the problem with so much of this, um, uh, creating a hypothesis for a ceasefire for and the end of the call like very often even people there is very kind of sympathetic to wanting to end it. they never, they almost never take into account with russian how russia would react, okay, rushes tend to driving see right now, why would it change? of course. no, i, i really, and i think this built into so many times that this war is not about land. so right, the idea that he's going to say, you'll be happy with, say, taking 20 percent over your brain or with the rushes or choose something that wasn't really an objective that wasn't what lee. the whole purpose of the circle is

special military operation work. it was to ensure that ukraine was not a member of nato that's, that's the part that's the rush i have to secure. and that's why, in the sense these doomsday scenarios by the institute for studying was, have a sort of logic too low because they've kind of figure out this is russian subject to rushes objective, is that ukraine, you know, basically will not be a part of nato ukraine. will be in russia is all that, and that has to be the ultimate objective of russia, just if they, oh, they get a bit of territory and but the rest of ukraine is a member of nato. then you'd have to say, well, then what is the war achieved? all right, but let me ask georgia question if i can just show me that because you asked me want to, to, to, to, to find, to find one bucket to you. what happens in his presence or how does the present status quote continue? you know, you're looking at, in the last 6 months, estimates of a $120000.00. you calling troops killed, you know. so let's, because popularity under question. you know, the countries folding unfolding. we don't see a quick fix militarily from the west,

you know, so, so very well talking about getting a to some point, but some how does things, how do you see the next 6 months and you find what is i can start? well i, i think ultimately russia has to push forward for a victory. i think that they can be no other goals but essentially topple the regime in care of and, and get us a avery seems as i will work out, some kind of a deal with russia and also i think will not be a success. okay, i'm going to just put a pause on this because we'll continue this discussion next week. i want to thank my guess, americans and both of us. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us or are these the next time? remember, prospect mills, the

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