the firm are of a certain age, but in this case, i think what, what we're witnessing is a, a change that is indicative of what the ukraine key ever seen. saves as it's a status with respect to being able to defend um uh or undertake the operations. and there's undertaking in the eastern part of the country and it's indicative of them. thanks for joining us. best. i always appreciate your company. i'll be back with more news, the top of the next one, the the

the, i'm action or times and welcome back to going underground will cause to go around the world from dubai and the to the middle east. us defense secretary lloyd austin . it scheduled to be in as well today, just for a week off the washington veto to you a dropped in security council resolution of the you and calling for an immediate cease fire and gaza without the 10s of thousands. the majority of the women and children would have been killed by the time you're watching this with british american and you nation weapons. joining me now from riyadh saudi arabians documents where i was. okay. i get that. like i'm right here. thank you so much. sure. no problem is okay, you have coming on. so whether this rate for you on contract depends again, bosley austin is in israel to meet and you know, give him

a weapons or not. why do you think that in the out will this a top come asset panel, the saudi arabia and the you a was gonna pay for all the destruction that we're seeing on social media. and obviously, no one can bring the lives back that i lost every every hour. but what does he mean, the saudi arabia in the you a going to pay for? it will. and well, 1st of all, thank you very much for having me. i'm happy to be with you as we are going to go down the path of asking uh, this sort of questions we perhaps should go for 2 years back in history and question all the full statements, which is part of the media strategy of success a is really a government, i think one needs to have a not just the grain of salt, but perhaps uh, 3 kilograms of salt. whenever there is an official statements coming out of any is

really government. it's established in terms of research as well as uh, what we have seen in the past few decades. so that is really government, not just the nothing. yeah. whose is randy, governments use a certain tactics, one of which is such false media statements. and i suppose if there's one glimmer of light to me, it's the genocide it has been. the whole world is now on the same side as the arab league. even canada and britain and stain would one believe but, but will relations change between saudi arabia and the countries that are harming janice? britain and the are be in union is still supplying the weapons, killing those children that we see every how. how do i, how would that affect relations between the world and the west and european countries in the united states as well. uh, 1st of all, uh we have to,

uh, look at the weight off of, uh, of i think uh on the part of the arab islamic ministerial committee under saudi arabian leadership. they are trying to use their relationship with those western european countries and western countries in general to the benefits of serving the way for words. i think it's much more we have to be realistic. i'm friends not take that. there's much more beneficial, pragmatic, practical, to try to use our relationship with them in order to push things in a positive direction, rather than strain the relationships which are already under a lot of pressure because of those positions you have, we would just have mentioned how much under pressure, do you think? now i looked a lot, i would say a lot, a few look. the 1st stop is that uh the saw the legs. uh,

airbus, lubbock, uh, mysterious clemency. uh 12. it wasn't any western capital, it was china. uh this and itself is significant, not just because china of the time was the president of the monthly president of the security council. but because of sending a symbolic message to all of our partners that you are a siding, you are on the wrong side of history. here you are on the wrong side of morality or values, what you preach on a daily basis to russia and other countries. you are on the wrong side of international law, international humanitarian law, and basic humanity. so uh, this in itself is symbolic. a, there are a tremendous pressure, so saudi arabia and other arab and islamic countries are using diplomatic tools. in order to encourage a convince those partners. we have some minor success,

not grades, but nonetheless it's something that's moved for worth and the right there's a direction, it's not enough. 9 we have to accept the reality. nonetheless, it is one small step and the right direction. and we have seen breton change a little bit. it's position friends as well. and we hope that the most significant position that has the us we'll see some positive developments. or is it actually loading mask and twitter we where we get our information from that i really like pictures and images more than they are. well, that is changing opinions in the nato countries. it is difficult at this point to draw, reliable a trusted links of causality is between point a leading to point to be nonetheless, we can say that ah,

twitter or x and other uh, new social media platforms have and less than the negative impact of media. monopolies and the west, which do not reflect realities, but rather reflect certain political editorial positions that are far away from reality on the ground. they are siding with the aggressor, with the apartheid regime of israel with the atrocities. and the there is so much dr. inc editing of images coming out of palestine. and we are seeing a little bit of change in those mainstream western media. partly although i cannot say with absolute certainty, certainty, but partly because of breaking their monopolies over narratives over the stories.

i'm sykes and good parts to use social media platforms. yeah, i mean, west them kind of a, in the united states, a huge numbers, a hearing just about palestine and according to depose. and yet, so these minister investment to call you the finally reported the said saudi israel normalization is still on the table. do you think it is on the table that um uh, we have to define what on the table and saudi arabian terms means uh on the table means a way uh for words for palestine. palestine is essential and any step towards normalizing relations with israel. if normalization with israel will help bring us closer to a credible back towards a post indian state, then there's more than welcome. and i think although i do not represent any

official point of view, i'm not part of any of a shall. uh, conversations a or me things, but as a researcher, i think this is uh, the meaning of, on the table for saudi arabia. i don't know how the state department works cuz they appear in the state, me the statement. i'm just gonna tell you that to think them saudi is connected to how mouse, which is a bizarre notion, but of a sudden fine relations committee, the vitamin deputies extra estate. nobody could. campbells of israel is still interested in normalizing with saudi despite october. the 7th though, it's a strength to shift a conjunction of the phrases that but clearly the united states is still interested in fostering this of course, when 1st the full, the closest ally of how much is mr. nothing, y'all and his government. let's not forget that they both thomas and the nothing yahoo, extreme us fanatic governments agree on the number of issues,

be of the peace process a, b, it's b as training, any peaceful, diplomatic solution, etc, etc. it was nothing yahoos, governments actually that's pressured, but the government in order to refund the money to how much through as really intelligence services is right, the airports, etc, etc. and let's, this is an important element of context here. i asked 2 statements coming out of washington. we are used to different contradictory declarations. how much has a negative relationship with saudi arabia. it has been the case for almost 2 or 3 decades. let's go back to the turn of the century woodside. the rapier brokerage a national unit see a peaceful efforts between fed and thomas and muska under the patronage of the previous custodian with the 2 holy mosques got villa and promised broke. what it's

committed itself to do. i'm actually not respect. uh, it's a commitment in those meetings to the saudi arabian government, we have another negative incidents and b and so in gears. so the notion to say that's how you're a best support, how much effort and the 7th of october it's, it's just absurd. i think good daily, i mean i must was on the american side interior as well as i understand why on her then i can solve the notes and say, oh, hospital ship to, to gaza. and i mean, i suppose it would be during the, by the ministration not to blow it up, but to protect and, and to help perhaps those uh people who uh, wounded in pain in gaza. it is, there is no shortage. what 1st of course are there?

i'd be a sent hundreds of tons of humanitarian feeds and medical supplies, medical personnel, uh medications, food uh, clothing, uh, 10 some reports you know, the world health organizations and medications and getting through summer boards even said anesthetic is not coming through these ratings of taking it so i was gonna get to this point, there is no short will for a number one. so there might be a sense, ships, uh, air planes, uh, by all means of transportation to hundreds of tons of humanitarian, a medical food and other supplies. number 2, there is no shortage of humanitarian aid. there is a shortage of access or a lot of access to be more accurate. israel is not allowing access of food. israel is actually committing a war crime, violate, think

a long list of international laws, international humanitarian laws, by using food uh, medical supplies. uh uh walter. um uh, guys and other essential elements. the vital elements uh for the palestinian livelihood as a what and it wants to force them. it looks like uh the ultimate goal of israel is to push everyone on the border of egypt. then create a dfcs to situation where its uh, forcefully displaced them and to egypt it seems like that this is the plan. they have been bombarding costs, but those would pretext of tunnels under ground. and that's been several weeks. we haven't seen any glimpse of any evidence of such things. it seems like there, there is a systematic effort to force phone palestinians to the egyptian borders as

a 1st step towards displacing them forcibly into egypt. dr. i'm was okay. i'll stop you that more from the side of the academic and right draft of this right the the, the moon shone seems rom, just don't you have to shape out because the advocates and engagement includes the trail. when so many find themselves will support. we choose to look so common ground the the

russian states never is as tight as a sort of the most sense community best not can hold a saw something set up the in the system must be the one else calls question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin mission, the state on the russians per day and split the ortiz phone, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services. for what question did you say a request, which is the

plug it back to going underground? i'm still here with some of the academic advising documents. so i was okay. we were talking about salvation actually in the webinar izing food and mentioned as a war, crimes 90 percent, according to the world food program and gaza. i don't eat every day. what about then oil? i mean, it wasn't that long ago that the saudis were refusing blinking, so, begging for increases in oil that production just before comp to idea you can do by again the americans wanted it, but actually opec plus decreased production. it could oil be used in this case to save somehow the children of the guys at the moment. as we know, israel is buying oil on these markets. that one could make it very particularly expensive for all their war planes and jets funded by the united states to my to

slaughter so many children. well, 1st of all, i do not think i disagree with the leak drawn between the production of oil and the killing. v is really upper tides regimes massacre and genocide of posting in children, men and women, and uh, the elderly. i don't think that there is a link between the 2 that's points. number one, points. number 2, i saw the rape as a responsible energy producer and the energy global uh and the global energy markets and the global economy. if we go back to the year 2019, everybody was asking us all sorts of, of things related to reducing production, increasing production, etc, for their own goals. not necessarily. um, uh, for the benefits of, for everyone else. the us asked us to reduce production,

then in 2020 to the uh, to increase production. then they asked us a few years later to reduce to increase production, etc, etc. so saudi arabia, as a responsible energy producer, our main responsibility is to help maintain energy markets, stability of trusting or playing with a commitment not respecting our commitment contracts, except truck does not serve international economies, debility that's point to number 2 points. number 3, i question whether there will be a direct, meaningful impact. even if hypothetically we go down that path. our main clients are not in the west. our main clients as china, then japan been and this south korea,

then the list goes on. so i question whether the jeopardizing our relationship with the global south would help palestine if anything, is leveraging color relationship as we have seen in the recent weeks how the saudi arabian leadership of the era by this my mic world symbolized by the air assignment serial committee how leveraging our relationship with those very same actors, how actually build an international momentum, calling for a cease fire, calling for upholding international law and putting pressure on the us. and the european backers of this is really apartheid genocide. so we will put those relations with china with india, with south africa, with lots in america. we will put them in jeopardy. and i would argue that as

a consequence of jeopardizing those relations is re on will gain a much more comfortable position internationally to continue the genocide it's doing against the palestinians, not the country. so i think we should reconsider the argument for an oil embargo. okay. do which the response from nato nations is, of course, being to i could be weaponized that propaganda media against gcc countries is saudi arabia and gcis. the countries, are they prepared for the onslaught that to presumably is to be expected? because often it's a role in marshalling global support for palestine that i doubted. international transformations as the international system level do not allow. uh for, let's say, uh,

i need creased pressure from western countries as a consequence of saudi arabian leadership of those global south voices. and countries and supports of palestine. um, saudi arabia, 1st of all, uh from a theoretical standpoint is uh, a middle sized power. uh, it's a swing power and those uh, global transformations. in simpler terms, everyone needs to become friends. what's out of the rape. yeah. and i highly doubt that they do have the means to put a increased pressure on saudi arabia as a payback for saudi arabian leadership of aero business, lima countries and global south country, as well as the propaganda into their own people's. isn't that from corporate media or in western europe in the united states, not to close to the rest of the world? a perhaps. so we have gone through much darker faces. you. uh, we all remember uh the uh, fedex of mr. by the. where did that lead him?

uh, finally he ended up coming to did the uh, to meet with the saudi arabian leadership. uh, all those products after surgery, they refused. uh, as a responsible uh, energy uh, global energy superpower refused to up an ice oil and succeeded in keeping coil away from politics as much as we could. uh, by then preston, sanctions. if we didn't join efforts against russia, where did that collect? uh end up. so maybe it's more um, geared or directed towards local audiences than anything meaningful in the international arena. well, as regards human rights, real human rights, not those pursued the weaponized dogs, usually by day 2 nations. do you think britain, the united states and you, nations will never be punished with their role in the gaza genocide?

definitely in different ways and different time frameworks. i argue that the rise of china and the western monopolies, us monopolies, and economic zones of influence spheres of influence. uh, that was one of the consequences of the rise of china. the recent events and reza and palestine and the western moral authority, their whole discourse and their efforts, systematic effort to contain china is predicated at the level of the discourse on 2 things. one, the respect of the rules based international system. and now we are seeing them, the main aggressors, the main violators of the international, the roles based system, uh, international law, international humanitarian law,

double standards, etc, etc. shielding is really war crimes uh, from any li, international legal, consequence. and their whole discourse about human rights. democracy and their efforts to contain china has collapsed in palestine and the recent events. where are the human rights of post indians of children, the upper type a regime of israel's army. uh, car uh, captured a 9 year old child until come to a street away from his family, from his uh, neighborhoods to interrogate him for a couple of hours. where are the human rights? western governments positions. this is a huge morally crisis for the west. and from that point of view,

i think there will be due shareable. consequences for the west, for the u. k. for germany, for france, and many other western countries. well, as you know, the pictures of that job won't be leading the evening bulletins on news channels in, in western countries. alas, russia in china one disease water, of course, what was the significance then of you already mentioned china being important of letting me opinions visit about to the u. a and to saudi arabia. amidst the ongoing cottage in garza as well. um, we very much appreciate the support uh of, of china, of many countries, uh, south africa, russia and many, many countries of latin america and africa, asia. and in the whole world. i think it is very significant to see the whole world saying what, you know, by a unified voice,

stop the carnage, stop the genocide and palestine. this carries a significant weight. but you know, the international criminal court, the head of a i think is being on the show. green guy is investigating palestinian crimes. i think against his rarely and as a warrant out of allowed to be a push it is it, is it not really taken seriously anymore that west and conception of human rights? western european it's a the balance of power. how carries wait with those kinds of procedures if anyone should be, uh, try it for crimes against humanity. it is a long list of his really official military and civil politicians, a civil servants, etc. uh, they have committed much, much more grave violations and crimes against humanity. but

the uh, strategic weight of the west. a still there, it's still significantly important. and the balance of power. i'm back, the balance of power has an impact direct and sometimes in direct, on international processes, one of which is the international criminal court court of justice. yeah, i mean, just, just finally, i mean do you think you grain and now guys over the bodies of kind of the civilians in both countries in both places in palestine and then you create the multi polar world is really here, given the responses from nato countries, uh uh that uh is uh, subjects to, uh, a much uh, wider uh, debate. uh, in order to suppose a multi polarity. you need 2 things. one as opposition. and we certainly have opposition to the us who gemini,

unipolar world order. but at the same time, we need the 2nd element, which is uh, a relative, a quality of power. we are yet to see that relative a quality of power. i do not think that we have an even close uh, international power. and that's come a significantly challenge us had gemini and as a consequence of the lack of this 2nd condition or element, i do not think that we are in front of the emergence. so from all tight puller world. but that is not at all to say that we are still under our unipolar world, that to you and the polarity is over. as manifested by the challenge and the systematic opposition. the rise of middle size, swing powers, the rise of the so called global south, etc. etc, dot com is okay,

thank you. a thank you sir. and that's for the show. continued condolences to those of iving, the killing him guys, and we'll be back with the brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch by role as social media results ends in your country. network channel going underground, keep your normal. don't come to us and even old episodes of going undergrads. these happened the,

[000:00:00;00] the body of strikes here to maternity would in southern goals, thanksgiving at least $112.00 and wounding several of us. in the news feed enclave is where the s blanks those are closer to killed, 90 palestinians, and the residential area, tulsa into town. his place is closed, could hear the village of the arden plains, often the extended family that's found that this community back in 19 such as all 4 people who were kidnapped to gather from here belong to that very clan. they are