to you know, deliver democracy and it's absurd on its face. i mean if they had some sort of respectful electrician, but for the actual working people for the actual citizens, i would understand, but they go around all of these went pro western media was insulting everybody. and then say, oh, we're entitled to because we're the democratic democrats believe the democracy. these parties, these activists have spent the past week insulting the serbian public and the serbian people. it's certainly not a democracy. the whole concept here is that this is a call from within pre being presented as a legitimate genuine popular revolution. and the whole thing has been scripted up again by american activist funded and organized, but the national endowment for democracy in its branches and various and yours. and this is, this recipe was used to belgrade in 2000 in georgia, 2003 in calvin. 2004 and again and 20132014, which escalated to my dun and many other places, including throughout the middle eastern europe, world of 2011. and as people have gotten wiser to it,

it's gotten less and less effective, but that hasn't stopped. people from trying it again and again. what about cl davis, alice thing with all the international for new use? you can rely on a back again in the box. so 2 minutes, the the, [000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle

. it's amazing what can happen over the course of a few months. not long ago biting was in static. the us with back you great. as long as it takes now, it is as long as we can. what happened? no doubt the regime and care of those taken note the cross. how can you crane? i'm joined by my guess daniel was are in new york. he is a journalist, an author of 3 books on the us constitution in mount jackson. we have karen kosky. she is a retired us air force was kind of the kernel having served at both n, s a and the office of the secretary of defense. and in tulsa, we cross the jeremy whose motto he is manage the editor of cobra, action magazine or across stock rolls. and the fact that means you can jump any time you want that. i always appreciate danielle, let me go to you 1st in new york. so uh, what happened uh, as long as to dig through, as long as we can, i don't know how many people have picked up on it, but it's a huge,

discursive change. well, the war is not going very well from the u. s. point of view, it is no fun losing a war. so when that happens, the temptation is very great to sort of walk away from the mess and let others clean it up. and that's what the us is doing. uh, the biden is bogged down. he's got tours in his hands, he's got a major crisis of the southern border. he has some republican revolt in congress which is essentially paralyzing his ministration. and he's trying to figure out a way of an extra katie, himself from the mass. but it's not very clear that there is a way out. so he is stuck, and certainly the age of the ukraine may very well wind up on the cutting room floor. well, you don't care and it seems to be a little good shifting from as long as it takes, as long as we can. we're going into the finger pointing mode. now it's, you know,

who's to blame. you know, the house republicans. um, because there's other important issues in the middle east. i mean, there is a, there is a lensky isn't measuring up. i mean, they're, they're looking for, for, for someone due to the be the bag bag here in the, in. go ahead get karen. yeah, well, i mean, the american people in the congress to, to a great extent has been lied to about the progress is more. and since that those lies can no longer be sustained. the, the worries has never been going well for ukraine, and it's certainly in a much worse position today for negotiations or for a peace settlement then it was a year ago or even 2 years ago. so this, this reality is, is coming into the picture and we're seeing it in the front pages of the papers. the finger pointing is not just political, but it is being transmitted to the country to kind of prepare americans for the fact that this is over. and it's, you know, yeah, but in election you yeah, but what's really interesting here is that these people, they, they think they're clever,

but they're not jeremy because they're just redefining it. i mean, last summer, biden's advice has already lost the war blinking site. exactly the same thing. they're, they're not addressing reality. they're just trying to put a different spin on it here. and because now what we're, they're talking about is a frozen conflict. as if rush, who would go along with it. they never address that part of the equation. you're trying to go for a pros and cons for like the engine, korea of we heard this a year ago. okay. i mean there recycling their own to talking points. now, jeremy, as well and look at the human tragedy as, as they're doing this. i mean, thousands of people are dying. you know, there was an article yesterday in the near time about chris on and he created commander said this is a suicide mission. you know, uh so, i mean, and, and there was another article in the same issue, how they're basically kidnapping people in kiev to send them to the front line. you know, ukraine and don't want to serve in this war. i mean, for a long time, i think that the insurance through,

that's why they had to rely on these militias. you know, privately financed militias, many of them, uh, political extremists. and now they're resorting to press ganging people into the crating military. so this is getting really, really ugly. uh, the other story is how i mean rushes across. the, i think a main model of the war was to grind russians who quad meyer and devastate their economy by ratcheting up to sanctions by clearly at the output and has been very bold and, and russia has survived economically, is flourishing in many ways. and there was an article today in today's new york times about the house, all these american companies, you know, put in, shrewdly kind of took them over and made this into a profit that all these american companies were exiting. so that part of the strategy is failure. of us thought that they was initiated, regime change operation by making putting look bad or running the russian economy. and that's not working out there. yeah, but it's interesting, daniel,

at the tail end with jeremy just said they're all this political calculation about what would happen, what could happen. they've been wrong every single time, but they're still making these policies as if they're going to get some kind of when it be and you can change the language all you want, change the words all you want, but it doesn't change the reality on the ground. and that's what they don't get, daniel would be what be the big the, these are, these are thinking in washington has been extraordinarily bad. and joe biden, personally, has been on the wrong answer these, this, this, these decisions repeatedly, many personally chup in the war in afghanistan, which of course, ended disastrously it's doing no shortly or into as a new administration. he championed the the, the invasion of iraq interventions, olivia, the proxy war and syria, and the war and the crate. and then the us virtually engineered this war from the

start. us promoted the, the 201314, my don. cool. which uh, which tor, the country apart and made a conflict more or less and never will. and joe biden was in the thick of this. they thought they could, you know, when that more easily they thought they could crush, couldn't take over the vast uh, you know, natural resources of central asia confront china from both ends from the east and the west. this is this, these big new upper shanaski strategy that was laid out in the, in this 1998 best seller, called the great, uh, the grand chest for and uh and uh, it has failed. it is fail in the us, essentially is a or has, oh, is overstretched, overreached and now its reaching the limits of its power. yeah. and its believing its own propaganda as well. you know, karen in the wall street journal? well they and there was an article about an unclassified, of course it was weak,

but it's not attached anyone's name that russia is, was up to 90 percent of its forces involved in the original especial military operation, 90 percent. so why does ukraine need money? and why would anyone think that russia is going to invade the nato, a country for the last 90 percent of its army? they will they have these 2 narratives going on simultaneously, but it doesn't make any sense. go ahead, karen? well, it makes sense because they're promoting or globally, they're promoting or in europe. they're, you know, we're cheer leading. this, which you're learning it to the american people. so they need different stories for different audiences. um, you know, we've and we've seen nato do the same thing. nato says, oh, we're really tough. we can, we do all were so powerful and then the, and then the very next sentence. but rush just going to evade, and they're going all the way to parents or whatever it is they say. so these stories are, are aimed at domestic populations for the most part, because ultimately it is the europeans and the american taxpayer who's

a has to pay for this, or go bankrupt, trying to. so the messaging, there's actually probably 2 or is going on, at least by the, in washington one is against their own people and the propaganda war against the world. and then of course, the exercise of our military, uh, uh, in industry. you know, how do we, i mean, they sell the, the a to ukraine is sold to americans not is helping ukraine when a 100 percent of course. but mainly because it creates jobs in america, i mean by who just recently started talking about, oh, don't worry people, it's all about your job. so, you know, but i will say the brzezinski doctrine has been something that american politicians for decades have clung to as if it was god's promise to the earth. and it's not, it hasn't worked, it isn't working, it's impossible to sustain. and it's based on a false premise, a certain way that but right, but one thing does work,

jeremy. one thing does work instead of selling this as a jobs of project, which is kind of creepy. if you is creating chip, you think about a war is good for 1000000000, it's got i, i can't believe it's or they're trying to sell, but they are, but it is very profitable. now there's no doubt about that for a very small number of shareholders, jeremy, as well. yeah, it's profitable, profitable for the weapons contractor. i mean, it's basically the boon dog or for these, you know, major defense contractors and for the wall street, you know, hedge funds that own them like black rock and you're robert f. kennedy junior has said this uh several times i heard them say it's uh and that's really what this amounts to along with other american wars. doesn't mean there's really no value to these wars. i think the american people see that the soldier seat. i mean there's so much cynicism now in america. and i think it's, it's

a very dangerous moment in american history. because that cynicism is you live in the rise of the neo fascism. you know, the trumpet movements. uh so i think it's just a very dangerous situation. and yeah, we're seeing a new mom, the american empire, crashing and burning. hopefully, hopefully not taking everybody down with uh, which is. yeah. but can you, you know, again, you know, a kind of dropped out of the discourse, but isn't it re emerged here is to fight for democracy and ukraine. do you know anything about democracy in ukraine because i can't find it as well? yes. so you crane is a country which is deeply and unstable. uh its, um, it's uh unstable and in many respects its torn bites divided by language. it's has a huge break away section. there is a, a, a, a far right nationalist culture in the west in ukraine which essentially dominates

the country as a whole. but the whole, the next is very fall and no one knows how to play out. and that's what makes the, the situation on the military front. so dangerous is that the problem is, is not necessarily a stalemate lasting for years and years, but a collapse. now, if the, if they, if the ukrainian lines break and there's a major rush in advance. well, that'll mean i never wanted to feed for the government in key evidence, lensky, but it'll also be very possibly a civil war conditions inside the you create. that's exactly what i've been at dictating for months now that once we see some kind of outcome on the battlefield, we're going to see an internal breakdown and maybe both at the same time. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine. stay with

the the known in vietnam as the american war, the vietnam war lost its almost 2 decades and dragged in numerous countries. not any time right now and then you don't see it now. why didn't all i'm empty? hundreds of thousands of american troops was sent to the country to bank the south vietnamese on me. i bought that not, but the american soldiers murdered resistors mercilessly burned down entire villages and spread dangerous chemicals and lee by all

right, did the americans ever fully acknowledge what they did on the vietnamese veterans ready to forgive? yeah, yeah yeah, that's. that's a ways too late. but yeah, the welcome back. the prospect were all things are considered. non peter will about your mind you were discussing. you create the ok. let's go back to karen in mount jackson. it over the last i think about 2 weeks or 2 months. we have seen the word stalemate being played out and it's actually in the west, the western powers that be the kind of use it as a positive at least ukraine hasn't lost. that's how they're spinning it here. but

it, it really isn't this fail made it's, it's a growing defeat for ukraine because as much frustration is there is with the rush of strategy with a special military operation. and i've expressed it personally on this program here . but if in the larger thing, if you're, you know, 40000 feet in the air, it's working, let's say you clean the military, come to the russian force has to be an isolated and that's exactly what's been going on for a good part of 20 months, right? now that policy is working as in patient, it makes us all feel because i want to see this come to an end. i see this war is completely senseless. so many young men being destroyed for a war that never should have happened, but essentially the russian planet of destroying the mil military capacity of a nato back military is happening aaron and yes, it is happening, and i think this is hardly one data once it does stop before it becomes even more obvious, the real danger that nato presents, by stoking and picking fights,

that it can't, that it can't even fight much less prevail in. so, um, you know, it's, it's a, it's a huge problem. but yeah, the crane. i think 6 to 7000000 people, what many women and children have left the country course. they are in various parts of europe and around the world as i guess refugees, immigrants are, but many of them are not return. many of them are not planning to return. the dumbass area will stay russian, so they've lost the population in the industry that was in the east. so ukraine is fractured. it's fractured in a material way in a territorial way. it's politically fractured and you mentioned democracy when democracy zaleski has, has banned religions. he's and he's suspended political parties jail to his political opponents. and the mayor of t a is so frustrated that he's probably spoken about zelinski corruption for leadership. so the country is being destroyed from inside and outside. um, honestly, to me and i don't know if it's a good thing or

a bad thing. i'm not rushing, i'm not ukrainian. but the russians seem to have bins restraint in the, in the way they've approached this whole thing they have. because in a traditional, more fighting scenario, now's the time to strike and take it completely off the map. and they're not doing that. russia's not doing that. they've never wanted to do that. that's not part of newton's agenda. it's not part of the russian armies agenda, but they could, and the very fact that they could, after all of the money the west has poured in. and after all of the, the global sanctions and all the efforts that we've made to back up, this is not just a small loss. it's not a stalemate. this is a major the feet of the. c the, their farmers and the, you know, the, the juxtaposition of course is what these rallies are doing to gaza. that's what total war looks like and a genocide on our end at that i as we're speaking right now, people are drinking,

drinking, cup of tea, nose and cab. okay, that's the difference. all right, jeremy, it seems to me because elections always play a role in this decision making here. and given that the congress is unwilling, at least at this point, i, you know, i want to, you know, the new client will keep getting money as like, you know, 60000000000. i don't think so. but the, the administration is going to keep the stick it on it just, it's not going to be so full blast here. and i, you know, this is what i, what of i live support approach. this is what the, the by demonstration will have at least up until the election agree a biography. yeah, yeah. to add to a camera. so also they've been assassinating, not just the jailing is best estimate of the. busy of the socialist party in parliament in moscow. so it is a mafia regime in ukraine. i have been wide scale assassinations extending into russia. and yet it's really a trick of george orwell. the. this is presented in believe by penny and the

liberal community in united states that this has some great democracy and crate fight for democracy. is that to answer your question? uh, yeah, i mean, buying is committed, i think, to the hilt and they'll find the way. and i mean, look, look what happened in the eighty's with the criteria war when congress cut off a what they do, they found cobra ways to continuously arm the cartridge. and i think there are a lot of carroll and other countries where the terrorist organization intent on sabotaged in the garage to understand the needs of those. and i think you crane and basically a mafia regimes with terrorist adjunct like the ease of battalions. and i think that they'll find ways to fund them covertly. if congress cuts cuts off and you know, the so called each state, the pentagon and the, the real power brokers. and they can also use other countries. 3rd countries they've done historically when red regime become really and popular and per i as

they find other country. often israel has done that work uh to arm them. so i, i think this may continue with the kind of low intensity conflict for a long time. unfortunately, you know, daniel, you, with the, the love affair with is a lensky, seems to be fading away. i mean, a year ago, he was in front of congress. and much to my chagrin, seeing a major party officials carrying a foreign flag and the congress should offend everyone, at least they did me here. but we had a few months ago, the economist in time magazine, not, not the most uh, charitable, with the use and zalinski. and then with his latest trip to washington, he returned home essentially empty handed. i know $200000000.00 is a lot. i'd like it, but been considering what he's got in the past that's come, change here and zalinski is more or less done. i mean, if he's not the rain maker at the financial term to make money, what value is he to you?

great, daniel. a well he's, are you right, has his rain making, your powers are or diminishing. so there's, he's not much value anymore. but the, the, the real issue is the us in the us. i mean, so lensky is a us instrument. the us put them in power. they are, they arrange for him uh to, to, uh, you know, to heads up the heads up the, so the us funded military. uh now the us is getting tired. it's getting bored and that's the other conflicts on his hands. and so it's what you know, what, uh, and i think that uh, that disaster is moving and i think this is gonna be extremely dangerous situation in the ukraine and in europe as well. i think they, i think the future of nato is a real question. and the, and the us has no idea how to do with it. there's diminishing confidence in, in the, by the ministration. his numbers are plunging. uh, uh,

everyone's preparing themselves for a truck right. trump presidency, 2.0. and trump will certainly see to put nato on an entirely new foot and uh, and, and nato itself. the european allies are just like, you know, shaking their heads and wondering what it all means. and it's going to meet a very big change. 2024 is going to be a very big here. it's going to be a very turbulent type of visit, disabling self care. and you know, it's really interesting. i'm glad we started talking about nato and, and trump here. because of course, you know, the scare monitoring by trump will take us out of nature. well, you know, out, and they're going to be passing congress, you know, amendments. so he can do it at all. which, constitutionally, as it is quite a duty to know, well, that's really i guys think, but what's really interesting, is it joe, by this determines nato for more, for the drug ever possibly could. because he's prevent the presiding over a strategic defeat for the alliance. karen? yeah, no, it's absolutely true. and um, you know, his reading the truth,

sometimes it takes a little time to evolve as we look at what happened in the past couple of years. certainly in europe, with regards to nato with american policy. when we look at that, the mistakes are going to be really obvious. um as to what is what has happened here. but yeah, by noon and it's not clear vitamins leading the country. i mean the man is clearly a senile. you know, he is, he's drugged up, he's not, he's not mentally leading the country there, but the people around him, the neo conservatives around him are driving american foreign policy. and they have never seen a wall. they didn't want to drive into and they're doing it again. they never take responsibility for their mistakes. however, the reckoning time is coming because europe can't sustain nato without the united states money. and many european countries are over and getting their going broke their dom up their demise demographics. they're not right to to raise huge armies. same goes for the united states and we're more broke than they are. so,

as the reckoning comes, but the financial reckoning, a political reckoning, and you know, we can talk about trump and we don't like trump, but trump represents the same populist movement. that is boy steering art and bullying up a r f k junior and other candidates. people in america are tired of work and a tired of their limited money going to destroy the rest of the world while not defending or even repairing our roads and bridges. i mean, this is a populous concern, but shared across all parties that the actual voters and all parties share this view. so yes, 2024 is going to be very, very exciting. and i'll tell you the leads in this country, washington, dc, or congress that is so worried that trump's going to get elected. the 1st thing is going to do is pull out of nato. they are panicking and i think for the rest of us . and while it's a tragedy, what we're seeing and what we've seen in ukraine and certainly a tragedy in gaza, there are some things coming to america. they're going to kind of tilt the, the,

the, the balance of justice in some way. so the, i think it's, that's also true and just the, we're out rapidly running out of time, jeremy. but you know, these, the failures of these neo liberal leads are fueling the rise of populism. right wing populism. in europe, i mean they, they, they, they, this is the best thing that could happen to the populace in europe. but the way these people are running this war and their economies. and i would say their culture is that's a different topic. jeremy, finishing off for us, go ahead. we could also be entering the error of greater authoritarianism or, and repression because of populations yet are unhappy. and there is growing revolts including western countries and the leads may react away. they know how the or what they've been doing all around the world. a lot of the violence may come home here and we see it may see more, more refreshing it and more of a police state. and that's one of the dangers as people rise up because it clearly looks as a care point. people are not happy with these policies. these policies are a failure,

a means of failure of governance. they're not governing for the american people. they're causing may have abroad. and there's going to be more more rebellions and we hope that they don't lease their raf on the american p. well, but we know that their 1st their, their 1st of our i'll fire line of resort is censorship. that's what they're very, very good at doing. centering has and disappearing us and we get to have to fight back against that as all the time we have a one, i think my guessing mount jackson, new york and in tulsa. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our d. c. next time,

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the, to the law should be to go the breaking news, this arrow heavy. 70 people are killed and single. he's ready as like sunday and my god, the refugee camp in central gab that christmas celebration is all across the wes thing have been officially canceled with what is happening in guys of the palestinians here. say they do not feel like it's time for for services. yes. christmas celebration the council to the best play the price of the product seen in