peters, unfortunately for the government consults of ministers court extreme fascists. in every sense, the hypotheses of the western countries, nieto countries and unfortunately with support of the american veto, has led to the arrogance of israel. you know, which sections disregard and all the united nations resolutions. disrespect and international agreements, even human rights against the whole world. i see research and a popular uprising in western countries in europe, in america, in canada, even on the other side of the world in japan, supporting the palestinian people in gaza, glands, and goes and practically between brackets and ethnic cleansing, or extermination of an entire people or the displacement of whoever remains in gaza each practically, we're getting control over it because the geographic regions capital was to create that's happening practically has no boundaries, even if it leads to the extermination of an entire people considering degree depressed. we're only brings destruction and this is what we're trying to convince the israel majority, that is what's happening and gaza easily. and i elation of people in every sense of the word. it is an evaluation of even the feeling of humanity. you're up to date

with the top stores here on our t international. i'll be back top of the hour. it's more that we have the hello and welcome to worlds of parts manage the last. the 1st claim that we are what we need to. but as my guest today argues, we are also what's eating us or parasites shape for more than our immune systems. they may well determine what it was stands on, major policy base,

or how we navigate our friendships and love affairs. don't even know ourselves without 1st accounting for our parasites. to discuss that i'm now joined by around just thornhill and evolutionary biologists and professor emeritus of the university of new mexico. professor thornhill, it's a great pleasure for me to talk to you, especially because you are not afraid to look into socially or emotionally precarious topics which may not be fully in line with contemporary and morals. and this is what i want to start with. i wonder if you have ever filed throughout your extensive research, that the moral judgments or publicly articulated ethics may be preventing us from forming perhaps less idea. at least they kept more comprehensive understanding of human nature. oh yes, indeed, morals and morals and ethics fascinate me. an ad always have and so that's

why i devoted almost the last 20 years, almost exclusively, to studying human core values, balls whatever you want to call them. and it's, it's quite interesting. yeah. you have a very interesting uh, sort of entry into them. here's starting off from our high minded ego, or rather you're started from the very low and from the parasites, which you claim have a major influence. not only on our, you know, biological uh, bodies, but also on our moral judgments. in what way? the, um, the uh, yeah, the parasites appear. uh, infectious diseases run the show basically. and uh, the parasite stress theory, a battery use and so she has a lift gate. is the area behind all of this research,

not just mine, but now it's world wide. it's really taken off, and the parasite stress theory of values is assigned to yury about what causes human variance and the causal uh, frameworks are about on the proximate cause only. and that is causes that during individuals life times to create their values, as well as ultimate cause, ation of the years that is evolution and causes of that, that, you know, the lucian, who causes are the pollution and processes that bill the psychological mechanisms by which we acquire our baggage values range, our core values range on a continuum from what cross control psychologist called collectivism. an individual ism not collectivism behind a visual isn't that an answer dimension and individuals can be placed on the

dimension regions can be placed on that dimension. and so the, this, this is something that we will have to unpack, uh, but uh, before we do that, i think this may sound sense. they've actually too many people because many people believe that we are the ones who are, you know, in full control of our vows. and yep, here you are suggesting that it's the other way around essentially that we are values are a product of mostly unconscious processes and on the kinds of exposure we had both in our, my, my mom's bellies and in very early childhood. now, how much control do you think we have over that by, by the time we become adults? well, we, we control in the sense of our psychological mechanisms and making choices, a bangs. but like you say, oh, you know, it's all, it's unconscious. we're not, we're not consciously evaluating the connection of kind of

picking our values in relation to infect uses and these levels, we're not, we're not doing that. so. so basically again, the diseases are in control and in terms of creating are more aptitude to sell to. yes, so if you, like you said, if you grow up in people very in where the environment that grow up in some people, gloating very does easy places and live in birds is easy places. other people live in areas that have less infectious diseases. and when you grow up in an area of high infectious disease, individual, strategically go to the collector. this are conservative end of the semester, beautician. where if you go up under low infectious disease individuals go toward the more liberal or individualistic professors thornhill, what's,

what's even cost ensure it's a high or low parasite level because none of us leaves in the sterile environment, then we all inherit both our parasites and the immunological defenses against them from our mothers when being born and then the wild being nurse and perhaps later on in the environment. right? but it bears the exposure to their sides. the contact with parasites varies among individuals and not just in childhood, that's or a live and then no everybody, there's infectious diseases everywhere in the world. but they buried tremendously in the number of infectious diseases internet area, right, and number of cases of losing zeros. and those are the 2 variables. so we look at their very, very core, highly correlated number of disc, texas diseases and humans, a number of cases. and those correlate with their value system. both of them be at

the individual level as well. and so i have to redo all that. so more infectious diseases, more more conservatism, less infectious, and reasons, more member, measuring individual nation. yes. now i know you've reached them then, given that requires immunity against viruses is uh, geographically localized down xenophobia and s no center. as of which you see as expressions of conservatism would make some inmate sounds. they would be sort of a and unconscious strategy or for avoiding people who may present a higher risk off infectious diseases. and if it's indeed so in, they can even deal with that by um, sort of emotional control by a trying to, you know, or talk to morality to those people. because if it's something in maint, uh i,

i suppose people would have some major difficulty dealing with it. well, like you say this in a phobia that comes out of basic immunology where infectious diseases house and they're infectious diseases co evolved. and the, and the colors narrations are constant under local lives, geographically into se, so that means that individuals have relatively good immunity toward infectious diseases in their local area. however, the colors and infectious diseases and collaboration erases are very geographically localized. individuals lack the immunity for diseases outside the local area. does she get in? how does these areas a lot is in the front of, you know, central isn't so tele, patrick or individuals don't move around much state where they're born and so forth

. so all those characteristics are coming out of the localization of the corporation erases between host and parasites. that's funded. now, what do you mean or what you mean working all spacing? yeah, yeah. now, i think it's very difficult in this day and age to discuss is in a form be in a non ideal logical terms, but i would still try to do that because uh and let me know if you disagree. i would suggest that the best way of dealing with such phenomena would be actually making sure the communities or where people have such concerns that they do have the resources, medical resources, medical facilities, and other resources of dealing with the influx of the new. and yet, i think in many developed countries, um, such a proposition is still quite controversial. i want, i wonder, when do you stand on this debate? are all flat how to deal with migration and whether it has to be dealt with morally

through educating people or practically through said, you know, providing those communities with necessary resources not only for medical help, but also for integrating people into the new culture. the parasites trewsbury a buyer's associate. oh is this on cubic period. doesn't say it's just after the causes of our bags. it doesn't say, conservatism is more moral than liberalism, a liberalism to conservator, and have a, you know, anything to say about morality and people make those judgments. but where i personally stand is, i mean, everybody's got their moral code. you know, all humans do is in the, from the day or a weekend and from all the evidence supporting the theory. basically the bottom line is to pay a lot of attention to infectious diseases. if you want people not only to be,

you know, well and show lower mobility, but they will also be, be less than a phobic and more near near feel like that. he is interested in new ideas, promote innovation by accepting technology and scientific information, or more open to science and so forth. so basically the bottom line is control infectious diseases in your area. uh with um, you know, there's a lot known about how to control infectious diseases, vaccinations, potable water everywhere, and health care for people and so forth. and that, of course, there is tremendous need across the world. the degree to which people have uh, sanitation and, and health care. yes. i would suggest that um is in a ford van, other forms of, uh, rejecting the new s a may have

a positive protective quality. and in a sense that i think is well established. right. now then both are human psych and a human body and do need a degree of homeostasis in order to proceed with balanced development. when the developer and a new development changes are too much, then it usually results in trauma. it could be an individual trauma, it could be a terminal of the collective psyche, but anything excess of a would produce a some sort of lack of perfusion. so to say i'm trying to put in diplomatic way. and i wonder if in this time of major changes, because everything around us uh, changes uh, is in a full be are other forms of resentment to the he would, would be on the, on the rise almost naturally because people are dealing already with too much too much of a change and they would want to preserve something constant in their environment.

do you think that need for consistency? need to be somehow accounted for in policy? the oh yes, i do the need for consistency, but people are, i mean the bears extraordinary day is identifies these psychological mechanisms that have that select the barriers, but they're open to change it. you're open to change it so you can actually take people or just a sample of people and bring them into the laboratory and show them cues of immediate infectious disease. danger. slide show of the person with based box is raised on the face and the measure their values before showing this lunch measure their values after they say there's lunch and all the individuals will become more conservative. that is more negative about emma brooks,

less open to new ideas, all those components of conservatism and but to consider people that are conservative at the beginning when you measure it as a bigger effect on them. so they have less openness, inflexibility in the mechanisms undermine that are associated with change age. but i think you know that people do have names, mechanisms that are open to change and that's what's expected. there's a way the disease mechanisms work. i'm dealing with the hosting corvil and their periods when they're less than bored and then and other parents when they're more. so natural selection has developed these mechanisms that are relatively open to changes in infectious disease risk in garden. like creates moves. what are we not the world in great move, but now biggest immigration issues since world war 2. and maybe the,

the biggest ever across the world, people are moving. and some of that is coming from climate change itself to or kinds of political conditions and so forth. of creating hardships, people who just want to get up, get out and find a better life. and so with low infectious disease, people just stay home. okay, well professor storm show, we have to take a very short break right now, but we'll be back in just a few moments. stay tuned. the,

[000:00:00;00] the welcome back to wells of course, various around just thornhill and that pollution, every biologist and a professor emeritus of the university of new mexico, a professor stone killed before they briefly talked about the conservative. well, mostly let's talk about the liberals. i find is through my line of work and sort of my friendships, the people who described themselves as at least political liberals. they have this very strong tendency towards moralizing and sometimes projecting their in our conflicts onto others. what, who they,

who they deem is immoral. i think they use shame and guilt far more for sort of uh, emotional control. then let's say the concert or it is for usually resorts or anger and resentment. i wonder if the parasites trust theory has any explanation for this kind of tendency. the, let's see, well, oh, people kind of have strong feelings about their mall coach. they think they're, you know, so self righteous wherever they are on the continuum of things. and so you get that from both ends. conservatives and liberals. and um, you know, more vigilance. so to speak is this call or you're watching others and on judging them a lot, that's part of that's part of human relative to judgement, to go wherever you are on the,

on the continuum. so i don't see the difference between the 2 ends. when i say if you just took that to streaming and you really are more vigilance. um and you know, kind of down playing or neck being negative about people who believe different from you and so forth. but, but they, but the evidence would be that the conservatives are stronger about no board borders. they don't know more scenarios with their low degree of was over here. so even general, surely where they like people that are different color and different speak different dialects and have different buyers and so forth. that's, that's a true statement of one of the things that i have learned through on my own personal therapy is that a value judgments can be extremely helpful for personal development. because

sometimes, especially at these times, some people are afraid of thinking through certain thoughts. they are afraid of failing certain feelings because they deem them as immoral. that leads to a sort of a new rustic blockage inside them. the build up of the emotional tension. and that starts affecting the immune system at a certain point, which makes them often more vulnerable to infectious diseases. and that leaves us back to viruses. so my question to you is whether you're seeing viruses are helpful in only forming our values or whether they could also be instrumental in terms of uh, moving uh, as along when we are to stock within our own old moral code. well, you know, bundle mainly what, what our morals are about is their, their important social navigation. so we have the small code that we have done and

its strategic for dealing with our social life. so who we are going to, we think of friends that can, you know, it doesn't, we don't, we marry all those things. how we impress people or, and all that, that's our, you know, model presentation. so it's a very fundamental part of our social life. and people do it to varying degrees with success. i mean, politicians in general are people who make a living out of presenting their morals, you know, and they get boats and they get the supporters and so forth with their presentation about the we're all doing that to a degree and using, using our mall codes. so it's very fond of memory important. and these new stripes and calling to actually talk about, or just part of our individuals trying to figure out really how to what to express

. and to get that date or, or get that job or whatever, you know, you know, there's difficult us. and yet, regardless of whether are we, whether we are more on the conservative or the liberal side, i assume we all have some basic human biology. the united states as well as some basic human values, for example, the, the value of life or in my country, the, the value of universal health care access i one day. and that would mean that fundamentally we should be able to agree on some basic extras, regardless of our political principles. persuasions or how open or closed we are to something new we should be and i agree, res definitely should be in. there are those issues like i'm not gonna, i'm not asking you in a more realistic way. i'm asking you in evolutionary way. if we share an interest

in having a good health care of them, i suppose we should be able to cooperate, to provide it for all of us. again, you would think so. i mean we, we all want to be healthy and, you know, and not have diseases and all that. so why can't we get together and, and have a, you know, universal health care system engine. sorry. um, that's what, i'm, what opposes it is. uh, the differences in bay is where are you going to put your, where are you going to put your money aside from the government? and are you going to put it in social welfare? a lot of people need help. i mean, you know, basic biology. there's individual variation shape ability that works for all organisms. some are better dealing with problems than others and it's the same for huge. so are we going to have a health wheelchair stay or not?

and countries very tremendously and the degree to which they adopt that and that's predictable on the patients. so what we're talking about that is for just as a means you get more of a welfare kinds of small judgments. liberalism, all taken care of strangers and that kind of thing. more conservatism, less of that. and that's just the way it works. yeah. to in my culture, and by the way, um, in russia we do have universal healthcare and i thing here in particular, we do um, differently with the biological aspects of human life. so for example, as a matter of policy, a here in russia natural birth more encouraged over a c section in our extended maternal periods, leaves are encouraged and subsidize so that the women and your mothers can stay longer with the babies and the, you know, the same goes for biological lower fees, illogical differences between man and women. for example, as a woman can claim

a sick leave when i have my period and a i wonder, what do you think about this kind of thought biological underpinnings of policy? because ever since now it's a germany, anything that relates biology to policies is viewed very suspiciously. but at the same time there are certain reality about the differences between men and women that i think gender neutral society has failed to recognize unfairly. so yeah. what, what, what comes to mind when you say a gender neutral society works kind of designing where, where you are, for example, the united states. i'm in the, in the united states, i think in many institutions mentioning that you are a woman and i'm bringing your biological issues for us. a would not be seen would seem as a exposing yourself to or, or claiming some unfair advantages. whereas in this country,

it's also recognized that as a woman, i carry more burden at home and also more burden socially, right? yes, i agree. the, i mean, there is a, you know, in the way us now, there is a ideological group that is very vocal that don't even believe in sex differences in humans. and, you know, there are 6 different deniers. they're called and that's part of the burial. a group that, you know, is just or just wrong. i mean, if you don't believe in sex differences, you're not going to do women. the kind of freedom, an opportunity and, and, you know, the child care advantage when you are surrounding birth and all that stuff. you mentioned and so that's that,

that's out there for sure to. can i ask you one more controversial question and it is, it would be a hypothetical question because we cannot establish a conspiracy or choice in this particular case. but there is a controversy between russia in the united states concerning the so called by a lapse the united states and retaining a network of biological lives around thrushes collecting certain, uh, biological or genetic material there. and it gave rise to many comes versus narrative has never been fully clarified. but i want to ask you as a scientist, do you think it would be possible to develop some kind of a biological westland that would have normally so effect on the population. but let's say some sort of uh, emotional, psychological influence. if you change your texas disease, the levels that people experience during why you're going to change their mall coats when they go to one generation 20 years of low disease, get get

a bunch of babies. and when do disease environment, these babies grow up in and grow into adults, continue the low end disease environment and you get liberal minded people increase infectious disease issues in. busy these people up, you'll get a conservative banks, more conservative bags and lots of evidence for there. and so that's, that's a way you could change minds. government can do it by through the, through the disease issues. yeah. very interesting stuff. professors don't care what we have to leave it there, but thank you very much for sharing your expertise with us today. thank you for having me. yeah, thank you for watching hope to see her again. and it was a part of the, the,

the, [000:00:00;00] the loony. when i would show the wrong just don't need to shape out. because the application and engagement equals the trails. when so many find themselves will support,

we choose to look so common ground the the of the at least 20 civilians, including children, are killed in a new crane and ukrainian attack on the russian city on belgrade to more than a 100 people left wounded after the cross border strike. we know that the british and american advisers are directly involved in the organization of this terrorist attack. russia's ambassador to the united nations of choose as western countries assisting ukraine in the recent selling office in belgrade. during saturday's special meeting of the united nations security council plus russian military