might not hear in belgrade the whole thing with this story. we also heard from serbian american journalist an abortion knowledge. he believes western intelligence has infiltrated sections of the political opposition in serbia. the people who are involved in these protests or professional activities at the all these western organizations that essentially have a bought and paid for come out of civil activist serbia who again don't have drops and they pretend to be the representative to, to representatives of the working class who are trying to you know, deliver democracy and it's absurd on its face. i mean, if they had some sort of respect for the electorate for, for the actual working people for the actual citizens, i would understand. but they go around all of these web pro western media outlets insulting everybody and then say, oh, we're entitled to because here the democratic democrats, blues and democracy, these parties,

these activists have spent the past week insulting the serbian public into serbian people. it's certainly not democracy. the whole concept here is that this is a call from within pre being presented as a legitimate genuine popular revolution. and the whole thing has been scripted up again by american activist funded and organized for the national endowment for democracy in its branches and various and yellows. and this is, this recipe was used to build grades in 2000 in georgia, 2003. you have in 2004 and again in 20132014, which escalate done. and many other places, including throughout the middle eastern europe. well, the 2011 and as people have gotten wiser to it, it's gotten less and less effective. but that hasn't stopped. people to try it again and again. it's a new year's eve visit next to the world as a part studios find out who exactly is engaging in conversation this december 31st, right ahead. this is the

hello and welcome to worlds of parts manager. last, the 1st claim that we are what we eat, but as my guest to day argues, we are also what's eating us or parasites shaped for more than our immune systems. they may well determine where we stand on the nature of policy base, or how we navigate our friendships and love affairs. can we even know ourselves without 1st accounting for our parasites. to discuss that i'm now joined by around just thornhill and never lucian, every biologist and professor emeritus of the university of new mexico, professor, stones, hill. it's a great pleasure for me to talk to you,

especially because you are not afraid to look into socially or emotionally precarious topics which may not be fully in line with contemporary morals. and this is what i want to start with. i wonder if you have ever filed throughout your extensive research, that the moral judgments or publicly articulated ethics may be preventing us from forming perhaps less idea. at least they kept more comprehensive understanding of human nature. oh yes, indeed, the morals and morals and ethics passed and i made an ad always i am. and so that's why i devoted almost the last 20 years, almost exclusively, to studying human core barriers malls, whatever you want to call them and it's, it's quite interesting. yeah,

you have a very interesting uh, sort of entry into them. here's starting off from our high minded ego, or rather, your start from the very low and from the parasites, which you claim have a major influence, not only on our, you know, biological bodies, but also on our moral judgments. in what way? the, um, the uh, yeah, the parasites appear. uh, infectious diseases run the show basically. and uh, the parasite stress theory, a battery use and so she ality is the theory behind all of this research, not just mine, but now it's world wide. it's really taken off. and the parasite stress theory of values as a scientific theory about what causes human values and the causal uh, frameworks are about on the proximate cause. and we, and that is causes that during individual's life times to create their values as

well as ultimate causation of the years. that is evolution and causes. oh yeah, yeah. the lucian, who causes are the pollution and processes that bill the psychological mechanisms by which we acquire our baggage values range. our core values range on a continuum from what a cross cultural psychologist called collectivism and individual ism not collectivism behind dimensional. isn't that to answer dimension and individuals can be placed on that dimension, regions can be placed on that dimension. and so the, this, this is something that we will have to unpack, uh, but uh, before we do that, i think this may sound sense if actually to many people, because many people believe that we are the ones who are, you know, in full control of our vows, and yep,

here you are suggesting that it's the other way around essentially that we are values are a product of mostly unconscious processes and on the kinds of exposure we had both in our, my, my mom's bellies and in very early childhood. now, how much control do you think we have over that by, by the time we become adults? well, we, we control in the sense of our psychological mechanisms and making choices and bangs. but like you say, oh, you know, it's all, it's unconscious. we're not, we're not consciously evaluating the connection of kind of picking our values in relation to infectiousness and these levels, we're not, we're not doing that. so, so basically again that the diseases are in control and in terms of creating are more aptitude to shelter more. yes, so if you, like you said,

if you grow up in people very in where the environment that grow up in some people growing very does easy places and living very disease, the pleasures of the people live in areas that have less infectious diseases. and when you grow up in an area of high infectious disease, the individual strategically go to the collector. this are conservative end of the baggage distribution. whereas if you go up under low infectious disease individuals go toward the more liberal or individualistic and the professors thornhill, what, what even cost that you had a high or low parasite level because none of us leaves in the sterile environment. and we all inherit both our parasites and the immunological defenses against them, from our mothers when being born, and then the while being nurse,

and perhaps later on in the environment. right. but it varies the exposure to fair sides. the contact with parasites varies among individuals and not just in childhood, that's around live and then no everybody, there's infectious diseases everywhere in the world. but they buried tremendously. and the number of infectious diseases in an area right and number of cases of listings years. and those are the 2 variables. we look at here. very, very court, highly correlated number of disc, texas diseases and humans, a number of cases. and those correlate with their basis both of them be at the individual level as well. and so i have to redo a level so important factors, diseases more, more, conservatism, less infectious, and reasons, more member letters of individual national. yes. now i know you've read them that

given that requires immunity against viruses is uh, geographically localized them xenophobia and s no center. as of which you see as expressions of conservatism would make some inmates sounds. they would be sort of a and unconscious strategy or for avoiding people who may present a higher risk offer infectious diseases. and if it's indeed so in, they can even deal with that by um, sort of emotional control by a trying to, you know, talk morality to those people because if it's something and they and i, i suppose people with house land major difficulty dealing with it, like you say this in a phobia that comes out of basic immunology where infectious diseases. i'm hosting their infectious diseases co label. and the,

and the colors narrations are constant under local lives, geographically, as you say. so that means that individuals have relatively good immunity toward infectious diseases in their local area. however, the colors and infectious diseases and collaboration erases are very geographically localized. individuals lack the immunity for diseases outside of the dose you get in high disease areas. a lot is in a phobia that no central zone. so phillip patrick or individuals don't move around much state where they're born and so forth. so all those characteristics are coming out of the localization of the corp erases between those and parasites as splendid . now what do you mean? knowledge mean? words and all spacing? yeah. yeah. now, i think it's very difficult in this day and age to discuss is in a form be in a non ideal logical terms,

but i would still try to do that because uh and let me know if you disagree. i would suggest that the best way of dealing with such phenomena would be actually making sure that the communities where people have such concerns that they do have the resources, medical resources, medical facilities, and other resources of dealing with the influx of the new. and yet, i think in many developed countries, um, such a proposition is still quite controversial. i want, i wonder, when do you stand on this debate of how to deal with migration and whether it has to be dealt with morally as through educating people or practically as through. so, you know, providing those communities with necessary resources not only for medical help, but also for integrating people into the new culture. the parasites, trewsbury, a buyers associated with the scientific period doesn't say it's just after the

causes of our bags. it doesn't say, conservatism is more moral than liberalism or liberalism, of conservative and heavy. you know, you think there say about morality and people make those judgments. but where i personally stand is, i mean everybody's got their moral code. you know, all humans do is uh, in the, from the day or a weekend and from all the evidence supporting the theory. basically the bottom line is to pay a lot of attention to infectious diseases. if you want people not only to be, you know, well and show lower mobility, but they will also be the less than a phobic and more near near feel like that. he is interested in new ideas, promote innovation, check my accepting technology and scientific information,

or more open to science and so forth. so basically the bottom line is control infectious diseases in your area. uh with um, you know, there's a lot known about how to control infectious diseases, vaccinations, potable water everywhere with health care for people and so forth. and that, of course there is tremendous need across the world. the degree to which people have um, uh, sanitation and, and health care. yes. i would suggest that um is in a ford van. other forms of, uh, rejecting the new also may have a positive protective quality. and a, in a sense that i think is well established right now. then both are human psych and a human body and do need a degree of homeostasis in order to proceed with balanced development. when the developed and a new development changes are too much done,

it usually results in trauma. it could be an individual trauma, it could be a trauma of the collective psyche, but anything excess of a would produce a some sort of lack of precision. so to say i'm trying to put in diplomatic way, and i wonder if in this time of major changes, because everything around us uh, changes uh, is in a full be are other forms of resentment to the new would, would be on the, on the rise, almost naturally because people are dealing already with too much too much of a change and they would want to preserve something constant in their environment. do you think that need for consistency need to be somehow accounted for in policy? oh yes, i do the need for consistency, but people are, i mean the bears, asterisk theory bay is, identifies these psychological mechanisms that have that select the barriers,

but they're open to change it. you're open to change it so you can actually take people or just a sample of people and bring them into the laboratory and show them cues of immediate infectious disease. danger. slide show of a person based box is raised on my face and the measure, their values before me showing this lunch measure their values after they see this lunch and all the individuals will become more conservative. that is more negative about emma groups. less open to new ideas, all those components of conservatism and but to consider people that are conservative at the beginning when you measure it as a bigger effect on them. so they have less openness inflexibility in the mechanisms undermine that are associated with change age. but i think, you know,

people do have these mechanisms that are open to change and that's what's expected or way the disease mechanisms work. i'm dealing with the hosting coble and their periods when they're less than 40. and then in other periods, when they're more shows and natural selection has developed these mechanisms that are relatively open to changes in infectious disease risk in garden. what creates moves, what are we not the world's in great move, but the biggest uh, immigration issues since world war 2. and maybe the, the biggest ever across the world, people are moving. and some of that is coming from climate change. and so other kinds of political conditions and so forth and creating hardships, people who just want to get out, get out and find a better life to show with no infectious disease, people just stay home. okay, well professor storm show, we have to take a very short break right now,

but we'll be back in just a few moments. stay tuned. the in the color world war, the awesome new rule of letters says that the new found we could assume it was a because of the yeah. record of that for you. yes, i have a life force. right. so what kind of a sudden i hope the keys, cuz those exist to the 5 units, but on us and not all the pants style mostly took me into businesses in the mortgage rates, the

the welcome back to wells, of course, with a run just thornhill and that pollution, every biologist and a professor emeritus of the university of new mexico, professors thornhill and before the american, we talked about the conservative. well, i'm mostly, let's talk about the liberals. i find is through my line of work and sort of my friendship. the people who described themselves as at least political liberals, they have this very strong tendency towards moralizing and sometimes projecting their in a conflict on to others who they, who they deem is immoral. i think they use shame and guilt far more for sort of,

uh, emotional control. then let's say the conservatives who usually resort to anger and resentment. i wonder if the parasites trust theory has any explanation for this kind of tendency. the, let's see, well, oh, people kind of have strong feelings about their mall coach. they think they're, you know, so self righteous wherever they are on the continuum of things. and so you get that from both ends. conservatives and liberals. and um, you know, more vigilance. so to speak is this call or you're watching others and on judging them a lot. that's part of, that's part of, you know, i think the judgment that go wherever you are on the, on the continuum. so i don't see the difference between the 2 ends. when i say if

you just took to streaming and you know, 3 or more vigilance. um and, you know, kind of down playing or next being negative about people who believe different from you and so forth. but um, but great, but the evidence would be that the conservatives are stronger about mobile borders . the number of scenarios with near low degree of, of, was over here. so even general, surely where they like people that are different color and different speak different dialects and have different buyers and so forth. that's, that's a true statement of our one other thing that i have learned through, on my own personal therapy is that a value judgments can be extremely helpful for personal development. because sometimes, especially at these times,

some people are afraid of thinking through certain thoughts. they are afraid of failing certain feelings because they deem them as immoral. and that leads to a sort of a neurotic blockage inside them. the build up of the emotional tension and that starts affecting the immune system at a certain point, which makes them often more vulnerable to infectious diseases. and that leaves us back to viruses. so my question to you is whether you think viruses are helpful in only forming our values or whether they could also be instrumental in terms of uh, moving uh, as along when we are to stock within our own old moral code. well, you know, bundle mainly what, what our morals are about is their, their important social navigation. so we have this small code that we have done and it strategic for dealing with our social life. so who we are going to,

we think of friends that can, you know, it doesn't, we date to we marry all those things on how we impress people or, and all that, that's our, you know, model presentation. so it's a very fundamental part of our social life. and people do it to varying degrees with success. i mean, politicians in general are people who make a living out of presenting their morals, you know, and they get boats and they get the supporters and so forth with their presentation about that. we're all doing that to a degree and using, using our moral codes. so it's very fond of mentally important. and these new stripes and calling to actually talk about, or just part of our individuals trying to figure out really how to what to express . and to get that date or, or get that job or whatever, you know,

you know, it's difficult. and yet, regardless of whether are we, whether we are more on, be concerned, or 2 or the liberal side are assume we all have some basic human biology. the united states as well as some basic human values, for example, be the value of life or in my country the, the value of the universal health care access i one day. and that would mean the fundamentally, we should be able to gree on some basic extras regardless of our political president and persuasions or how open or closed we are to something new we should be. and i agree with definitely should be in there are those issues like oh no, but i'm i'm, i'm not asking here in a more holistic way. i'm asking you in evolutionary way, if we share an interest in having a good health care. and then i suppose we should be able to cooperate,

to provide it for all of us. again, you would think so, i mean we, we all want to be healthy and, you know, and not have diseases and all that. so, why can't we get together and, and have a, you know, universal health care system engine. sorry. oh, that's what, what opposes it is. uh, the differences in bay is where are you going to put your, where are you going to put your money aside from the government? and are you going to put it in social welfare? a lot of people need help. i mean, you know, basic biology. there's individual variation and shape ability that works for all organisms. some are better dealing with problems than others and it's the same for huge. so are we going to have a health wheelchair stay or not? and countries very tremendously. and the degree to which they adopt that and that's

predictable on the basis. so what we're talking about that is sort of just as a means you get more of a welfare kinds of small judgments in evolution on out taking care of strangers. and that kind of thing, more conservatism, less of that. and that's just the way it works. yeah. to in my country, and by the way, um, in russia we do have universal healthcare. and i thing here in particular, we do um, differently with the biological aspects of human life. so for example, as a matter of policy, a here in russia natural birth more encouraged over a c section in our extended maternal periods, leaves are encouraged and subsidize. so that the women and your mothers can stay longer with the babies and the, you know, the same goes for biological lower fees, illogical differences between men and women. for example, as a woman can claim a sick leave when i have my period and a, i wonder,

what do you think about this kind of thought biological underpinnings of policy? because ever since mass of germany, anything that relates biology to policies is used very suspiciously. but at the same time, there's certain reality about the differences between men and women that i think gender neutral society has failed to recognize unfairly. so yeah. what, what, what comes to mind when you say a gender neutral society works kind of design where, where you are, for example, the united states. i'm in the, in the united states. i think in many institutions mentioning that you are a woman and i'm bringing your biological issues for us. a would not be seen would seem as a exposing yourself to or, or claiming some unfair advantages. whereas in this country, it's also recognized that as a woman,

i carry more burden at home and also more burden socially, right? yes, i agree, the, i mean there is a, you know, in the way us now there is a ideological group that is very vocal. busy doesn't even believe in sex differences in humans. and nowadays 6 different deniers, they're called and that's part of the burial. a group that you know is just this wrong. i mean, if you don't believe in sex differences, you're not going to give women the kind of freedom an opportunity and, and, you know, the child care advantage of when you're at or surrounding birth and all that stuff you mentioned. and so that's that, that's out there for sure to. can i ask you one more controversial question?

and it is, it would be a hypothetical question because we cannot as simple as a conspiracy or a truth in this particular case. but there is a contribution between russia in the united states concerning the circled by a lapse the united states and containing a network of biological labs around russia's collecting certain, uh, biological or genetic material there. and it gave rise to many conspiracy as narrative has never been fully clarified, but i want to ask you as a scientist, do you think it would be possible to develop some kind of a biological westland that would have a normally so effect on the population. but let's say some sort of uh, emotional, psychological influence. if you change your texas disease, the levels that people experience during why you're going to change their more coach when they grew up in one generation 20 years of low disease, get get a bunch of babies. and when do disease environment,

these babies grow up in and grow into adults, continue the low end disease environment and you get liberal minded people, increase infectious disease issues in grow these people up. you'll get a conservative bang, small conservative bags and lots of evidence for there. and so that's, that's a way you could change minds. government can do it by through the through the disease actions. yeah. very interesting stuff, professor. so i'm sure we have to leave it there, but thank you very much for sharing your expertise with us today. thank you for having me. yeah. and thank you for watching hope to see her again on the world's a part the the, the

distressing images from central gaza were at least a dozen people are a part of they killed by is really bombing raids. palestinian officials found the alarm over an escalating humanitarian catastrophe. pro palestinian protests mobilize across the western countries as the devastating is really war on gaza enters the 13th week. and also ahead. first, there will be no revolutions, no violent seizure of power. secondly, the people have made it completely clear as to who their support and to whom they give their vote. the survey and president directly addresses pro western protesters who want the results of the recent parliamentary election.