a joe medi equipment such as those stations and genesis in the, in, near future we, we will also have some more light is the technology, for example, with a handheld laser scanner. and also for some hydro graphic measure, like a, a min vote on the river or in the ocean. so finding the fastest routes on smartphone to exploring new oil reserves as well as a vast range of military applications. the benefits of dramatics are rapidly growing to encompass more and more industries. if one is beginning to see the potentials of us, which we just feel what it's facing, a difficult task as the success of the world's technology, is largely limited by the western sanctions. again, to what is waiting on his partners like china and russia to be involved with street madison, despite usability off to, to do say with our to international will be back with much more news in about 30 minutes. in the meantime, be sure to visit our website, our

t. com for the very latest breaking news and the fix, the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to worlds of parts manage philosophers claim that we are what we eat. but as my guest to day argues, we are also what's eating us or parasites shape for more than our immune systems. they may well determine where we stand on major policy base,

or how we navigate our friendships and love affairs. can we even know our cells without 1st accounting for our parasites, both to disguise that i'm now joined by around this thornhill, and evolutionary biologists and professor emeritus of the university of new mexico, professor stones, hill. it's a great pleasure for me to talk to you, especially because you are not afraid to look into socially or emotionally precarious topics which may not be fully in line with contemporary and morals. and this is what i want to start with. i wonder if you have ever filed throughout your extensive research, that the moral judgments or publicly articulated ethics may be preventing us from forming perhaps less ident lipstick, yet more comprehensive understanding of human nature. oh, yes, indeed, morals and morals and ethics fascinate making an ad always have and so that's

why i've devoted almost the last 20 years, almost exclusively, to studying human core values malls, whatever you want to call them and it's, it's quite interesting. yeah. do you have a very interesting uh, sort of entry into them. here's starting off from our high minded ego, or rather, you're started from the very low and from the parasites, which you claim have a major influence. not only on our, you know, biological uh, bodies, but also on our moral judgments. in what way? um the, uh, yeah, the parasites appear. uh, infectious diseases run the show basically. and uh, the parasite stress theory, a battery use and so she ality is the theory behind all of this research, not just mine, but now it's world wide. it's really taken off. and the parasite stress theory of

values as a scientific theory about what causes human values and the causal frameworks are both on the proximate cause. and we, and that is causes that back during individuals life times to create their values as well as ultimate cause. ation of the years that is evolution and causes oh, that means that near the ocean it causes are the pollution and processes that build the psychological mechanisms by which we acquire our values. ringback values range, our core values range on a continuum from what a cross cultural psychologist called collectivism and individual ism, not collectivism behind visualize and that's an inch of dimension. and individuals can be placed on that dimension. regents can be placed on that dimension. and so

this is something that we will have to unpack, uh, but uh, before we do that, i think this may sound offensive actually too many people because many people believe that we are the ones who are, you know, in full control of our vows. and yep, here you are suggesting that it's the other way around essentially that we are values are a product of mostly unconscious processes and on the kinds of exposure we had both in our, my, my mom's bellies and in very early childhood. now, how much control do you think we have over that? by the time we become adults? well, we, we control in the sense of our psychological mechanisms and making choices and bangs. but like you say, oh, you know, it's all, it's unconscious. we're not, we're not consciously evaluating the connection of kind of

picking our values in relation to infectiousness and these levels, we're not, we're not doing that. so, so basically again that the diseases are in control and in terms of creating are more aptitude to self more. yes, so if you, you like you say, if you grow up in people very in where the environment that grow up in some people growing very does easy places and living birds is easy places. other people live in areas that have less infectious diseases. and when you grow up in an area of high infectious disease, the individual strategically go to the collector. this are conservative end of the mr. beautician, where if you go up under low infectious disease individuals go toward the more liberal or individualistic and the professors thornhill, what's, what's even cost insurance, a high or

a low parasites level because none of us leaves in the sterile environment, then we all inherent, both our parasites and the immunological defenses against them from our mothers when being born and then the while being nurse, and perhaps later on in the environment. right? but it varies. the exposure to parasites, the contact with parasites varies among individuals. and not just in charlotte, that's around live and then no everybody, there's infectious diseases everywhere in the world. but they buried tremendously in the number of infectious diseases internet area. we're in a number of cases of listings years and those are the 2 variables we look at are very, very highly correlated number of disc, texas diseases and humans a number of occasions. and those correlate with their basis of both of them be at

the individual level as well. and so i had to redo all that. so more infectious diseases, more, more conservatism, less infectious diseases, more member letters of individual mental yes. now i know you've read them that given that requires immunity against viruses is geographically localized down 0 for b, s no center. as of which you see as expressions of conservatism would make some inmates sounds. they would be sort of a and unconscious strategy or for avoiding people who may present a higher risk off of infectious diseases. and if it's indeed so in, they can even deal with that by um, sort of emotional control by a trying to you know, who or talk morality to those people. because if it's something in maint, uh i,

i suppose people would have some major difficulty dealing with it. like you say this in a phobia that comes out of basic immunology where infectious diseases house and they're infectious diseases co evolved. and the, and the colors narrations are constant under local lives, geographically into se, so that means that individuals have relatively good immunity toward infectious diseases in their local area. however, the colors and infectious diseases and collaboration erases are very geographically localized. individuals lack the immunity for diseases outside the local area. does she get in? how does these areas a lot is in the front of you know, central zone. so philip patrick were individuals don't move around much state where they're born and so forth. so all those characteristics are coming out of the

localization of the corporation erases between host and parasites as splendid. now, what do you mean or what you mean words and all spacing? yeah, yeah. now, i think it's very difficult in this day and age to discuss is in a form be in a non ideal logical terms, but i would still try to do that because uh and let me know if you disagree. i would suggest the best way of dealing with such phenomena would be actually making sure the communities or where people have such concerns that they do have the resources, medical resources, medical facilities and other resources of dealing with the influx of the new. and yet, i think in many developed countries, um, such a proposition is still quite controversial. i want, i wonder, when do you stand on this debate? are all flat how to deal with migration and whether it has to be dealt with morally

through educating people or practically through said, you know, providing those communities with necessary resources not only for medical help, but also for integrating people into the new culture. the parasites, trewsbury, a buyers associated with the scientific period doesn't say it's just after the causes of our bags. it doesn't say conservatism is more, more liberalism or liberalism, conservative and heavy. you know, you think there say about morality and people make those judgments. but where i personally stand is, i mean everybody's got their moral code. you know, all humans do is uh, in the, from the day or a weekend and from all the evidence supporting the theory. basically, the bottom line is to pay a lot of attention to infectious diseases. if you want people not only to be,

you know, well and show lower mobility, but they will also be, be less than a phobic and more near near feel like that. he is interested in new ideas, promote innovation, check my accepting technology and scientific information, or more open to science and so forth. so basically the bottom line is control infectious diseases in your area. uh with um, you know, there's a lot known about how to control infectious diseases, vaccinations, potable water everywhere with health care for people and so forth. and that of course, there is tremendous need across the world. the degree to which people have sanitation and, and health care. yes. i would suggest that, um, is it a ford van? other forms of, uh, rejecting the new s a may have a positive protective quality. and a, in

a sense that i think is well established right. now then both are human psych and a human body and do need a degree of homeostasis in order to proceed with balanced development. when the develop new development changes are too much, then it usually results in trauma. it could be an individual trauma, it could be a terminal of the collective psyche, but uh, anything excessive a would produce a some sort of lack of precision. so to say i'm trying to put in diplomatic way. and i wonder if in this time of major changes, because everything around us uh, changes uh, is in a full be are other forms of resentment to the new would, would be on the, on the rise almost naturally because people are dealing already with too much too much of a change and they would want to preserve something constant in their environment. do you think that need for consistency need to be somehow accounted for in

policy? oh yes i do the need for consistency, but people are, i mean the bears. asterisk, there today is, identifies these psychological mechanisms that have got select the barriers, but they're open to change it. you're open to change it so you can actually take people or just a sample of people and bring them into the laboratory and show them cues of immediate infectious disease. danger. slide show of the person with based box is raise on the face and you measure their values before you're showing this lunch measure their values after they say there's lunch and all the individuals will become more conservative. that is more negative about emma groups. less open to new ideas,

all those components of conservatism and but to consume people that are conservative at the beginning when you measure it as a bigger effect on them. so they have less openness inflexibility in the mechanisms under mine that are associated with change age. but i think, you know, people do have these mechanisms that are open to change and that's what's expected . there's a way the disease mechanisms work. i'm dealing with the hosting co involved in their periods when they're less than bored and then and other parents when they're more. so natural selection has developed these mechanisms that are relatively open to changes in infectious disease risk in garden. what creates moves, what are we not the world in great move, but now biggest immigration issues since world war 2. and they've been the biggest ever across the world. people are moving and some of that is coming from climate

change and so on, or kinds of political conditions and so forth, of creating hardships, people who just want to get up, get out and find a better life. and so with low infectious disease, people just stay home. okay, well professor storm show, we have to take a very short break right now, but we'll be back in just

a few moments. stay tuned. the, [000:00:00;00] the the welcome back to wells, of course, with a run just thornhill and that pollution, every biologist and a professor emeritus of the university of new mexico professor stone killed before the american. we talked about the conservative. well,

mostly let's talk about the liberals. i find is through my line of work, i'm sort of my friendships, the people who described themselves as at least political liberals. they have this very strong tendency towards moralizing and sometimes projecting their in our conflicts onto others who they, who they deem is immoral. i think they use shame and guilt far more for sort of uh, emotional control. then let's say that conservative who usually resort to anger and resentment. i wonder if the parasites trust theory has any explanation for this kind of tendency. the, let's see, well, oh, people kind of have strong feelings about their mall coach. they think they're, you know, so self righteous wherever they are on the continuum of things. and so you get that

from both ends. conservatives and liberals. and um, you know, more vigilance. so to speak is this call or you're watching others and on judging them a lot, that's part of that's part of human relative to judgement, to go wherever you are on the, on the continuum. so i don't see the difference between the 2 ends. when i say if you just took that to streaming and you know, 3 or more vigilance. um and, you know, kind of down playing or next being negative about people who believe different from you and so forth. but um, but they, but the evidence would be that, that conservatives are stronger about mobile boarders. they don't know more scenarios with their low degree of uh oh wow jennifer, over here. so even general,

surely where they like people that are different color and different speak different dialects and have different buyers and so forth. that's not just true statement of one of the things that i have learned through on my own personal therapy is that a value judgments can be extremely helpful for personal development. because sometimes, especially at these times, some people are afraid of thinking through certain thoughts. they are afraid of failing certain feelings because they deem them as immoral. and that leads to a sort of a neurotic blockage inside them. they build up of the emotional tension and that starts affecting the immune system at a certain point, which makes them often more vulnerable to infectious diseases. and that leaves us back to viruses. so my question to you is whether you're seeing viruses are helpful in only forming our values or whether they could also be instrumental in terms of

uh, moving uh, as along when we are to stock within our own old moral code. well, you know, bundle mainly what, what are morals are about is they're, they're important social navigation. so we have this small code that we have done and it's the strategic for dealing with our social life. so who we are going to, we think of friends that can, you know, it doesn't, we don't we marry all those things. oh, how we impress people all or and all that, that's our, you know, model presentation. so it's a very fundamental part of our social life. and people do it to varying degrees with success. i mean, politicians in general are people who make a living out of presenting their morals, you know,

and they get boats and they get the supporters and so forth with their presentation about that. we're all doing that to a degree and using, using our mall codes. so it's very fond of memory important. and these new stripes and calling to actually talk about, or just part of our individuals trying to figure out, really how to what to express. and to get that date or, or get that job or whatever, you know, you know, it's difficult. and yet, regardless of whether are we, whether we are more on the concerned or to, or the liberal side, i assume we all have some basic human biology. the united states as well as some basic human values, for example, the, the value of life or in my country, the, the value of universal health care access. i wonder if that would mean that

fundamentally we should be able to agree on some basic extras regardless of our political principles. persuasions or how open or closed we are to something new. we should be us. i agree, res definitely should be in. there are those issues like i'm not gonna, i'm not asking you in a more realistic way. i'm asking you in evolutionary way. if we share an interest in having a good health care, then i suppose we should be able to corporate to provide it for all of us. again, you would think so. i mean we, we all want to be healthy and, you know, and not have diseases and all that. so why can't we get together and, and have a, you know, universal health care system engine. sorry. um, that's what, what opposes it is. uh, the differences in bay is where are you going to put your, where are you going to put your money aside from the government? and are you going to put it in social welfare?

a lot of people need help them in, you know, basic biology. there's individual variation shape ability that works for all organisms. some are better dealing with problems than others and it's the same for humans. so are we going to have a health wheelchair stay or not? and countries very tremendously and the degree to which they adopt that and that's predictable on the patients. so what we're talking about that is going to try to use disease. you get more of a wheelchair kinds of small judgments. liberalism, without taking care of strangers. and that kind of thing, more conservatism, less of that. and that's just the way it works. yeah. to in my culture, and by the way, um, in russia we do have universal healthcare and nice thing here. in particular, we do differently with the biological aspects of human life. so for example, as

a matter of policy, a here in russia natural birth more encouraged over a c section in our extended maternal periods, leaves are encouraged and subsidize so that the women and you mothers can stay longer with the babies and the, you know, the same goes for biological lower fees, illogical differences between man and women. for example, as a woman can claim a sick leave when i have my period and a i wonder, what do you think about this kind of thought biological underpinnings of policy? because ever since now, to germany, anything that relates biology to policies is used very suspiciously. but at the same time, there are certain reality about the differences between man and women that i think gender neutral society has failed to recognize. i'm fairly soon. yeah. what, what, what comes to mind when you say a gender neutral society works kind of design where, where you are, for example,

the united states. i'm in the, in the united states. i think in many institutions mentioning that you are a woman and i'm bringing your biological issues for us. a would not be seen would seem as exposing yourself to or, or claiming some unfair advantages. whereas in this country, it's also recognized that as a woman, i carry more burden at home and also more burden socially, right? yes, i agree. the, i mean, there is a, you know, in the way us now, there is a ideological group that is very vocal that don't even believe in sex differences in humans. and, you know, there are 6 different deniers. they're called and that's part of the burial. a group that, you know, there's just this wrong, i mean, if you don't believe in sex differences,

you're not going to do women of the kind of freedom, an opportunity and, and you know, the child care advantage when you're at or surrounding birth and all that stuff you mentioned and so that's that, that's out there for sure to. can i ask you one more controversial question and it is, it would be a hypothetical question because we cannot assemblage and conspiracy or choice in this particular case. but there is a contribution between russia in the united states concerning the circled by a lapse the united states and containing a network of biological lives around thrushes collecting certain, uh, biological or genetic material there. and it gave rise to many conspiracy theories . it has never been fully clarified, but i want to ask you as a scientist, do you think it would be possible to develop some kind of

a biological westland that would have normally a full effect on the population. but let's say some sort of uh, emotional, psychological influence. if you change your purchase disease, the levels that people experience during why you're going to change their more coats. when they grew up in one generation 20 years of low disease, get get a bunch of babies. and went to disease environment, these babies grow up in and grow into adults. continue the low end disease environment and you get liberal minded people increase infectious disease issues and. busy these people up, you'll get a conservative bags more conservative bags and lots of evidence for there. and so that's, that's a way you could change minds. government can do it by through. busy through the disease ations. yeah. very interesting stuff, professor song show or we have to leave it there,

but thank you very much for sharing your expertise with us today. thank you for having me. yeah. and thank you for watching culture, sir. again, on the world's a part of the the, the, [000:00:00;00] the dangerous and ways when joe biden bear hug benjamin netanyahu. stan brace, design is the agenda and all its deadly consequences. no matter how the american

administration wants to parse as rules. israel's war on gaza. united states is ultimately accountable for israel's military campaign the, the one person that has been killed in the latest ukrainian selling up to build the rod at region. that's after saturday attack on the cities and sent our claims the lives of $24.00 civilians, including 4 children. parson forces responded by targeting military sites in ukraine. distressing images from a central gaza where at least a dozen people have reportedly been killed by as really, bombing raids of sending officials found the alarm over an escalating humanitarian