during the times where in manhattan and he was caught on video according to the daily mail, when women came in and out of the state as well. and according to us tax records, he also received some $2000000.00 in, grabs from another is really building or lex wexler who had a foundation that was supposed to be a fill in profit organization, supporting jewish causes around the world. so there are those scenarios being played out. well, that's all that for this news. i'll let us go underground. pays tribute to legendary does. i'm still make a jump bill. i will be back at the top of the out the the

mass sooner attempts and welcome back to going underground broadcasting all around the world from the u. a. it's been just over a month since israel failed to prevent massive palestinian resistance, retaliation for decades of slaughter in gaza. the response from tel aviv is thousands of children killed by an agent, nation back, multi $1000000000.00 military industrial complex, un secretary general engineer gutierrez, won the world not to treat the atrocities of october. the 7th is, if they happen to in a vacuum. and no historian has done more to explain the context of mass murder in palestine than professor eli and pop a director of the art. the incentive about a city and studies at the university of exeter and author of the ethnic cleansing of palestine, these in haifa, partition from palestine by the u. n. and 1947. professor bobbie, i thank you so much for coming on again on the going,

i'm the guy last time you were on the for a book that probably educated just so many of those demonstrating in those native nations against what's happening in the middle east right now. i've got to really begin by asking you why the lack of compassion across the israel, for gods, or i know a lot of the images, a sense of the nature of nations, presume in israel as well, but why the lack of seeming compassion for what the rest of the world is seeing israel's troops due to gaza to thank you, living you once again having me once again on your, on your program. i think that there is nothing you in the way and the level of compression is you say, i mean i've been experiencing it. i know before the service of october, if i tried to speak with is really just on the human side of the test. when he was 1948, i failed to see any compassion i. ready remember the, the take on goes in 122014 with the event by the high

a number. ready of children killed and i couldn't it extract any compassionate reaction for most of these were. ready the dues i knew and definitely there was no compassion conveyed through the main and media also, it was the the disclose of the politicians. why is it happening? i think this has a lot to do with. ready nature. ready of of design isn't as a separate colonial movement and. ready it has to go to the origins and they're like many other cervical even movies like the ones that establish the. ready nighted states in australia, for instance, in order to get rid of the native indigenous population, you had to deal with nice the 1st and foremost and, and there's nothing you in the way is raise the receive. most of the other thing is even the young ones as potential enemies, as in igloo, essential danger. they are not getting to that conclusion by themselves. that is

the outcome of the very, a deep indoctrination educational system and it is sustained by the media. i mean, you, you just have to hear it and benjamin ethan, yellows language when he talks about the palestinians, people think that this is a new language because of what happens of the 7 of october. but this is because people have very short memory. you spoke this say you. ready as well disagree, or is it by minister and do you probably remember yourself prime minister begging and the way he talked about the fact in 1980 do during these a invasion of live alone when he compared alpha to hitler in the bunker. so i'm afraid that this is not unique to the particular. ready a catastrophe that we are witnessing at today. it's the most structurally, is rarely joyce perception. i would say rakes is perception or the palestinians as

a sub human. so infer human as some of our little shows like z, z a and likes to reset or government government as well. and some i'd say is inside lack of compassion is reflected, of course in london, berlin and notably washington had not wanting a cease fire. do you think that many jews in what was palestine understand that the biblical prophecy did do by the american christian right from which uh, american politicians get the vote is from that they end up uh, believing in your day or side on the day of judgment to do you think they understand that this is very little, but i, i remember the, the, the early the honeymoon between mentioned mean that them, you know, when he was still a, these really and bustle go to the united nation, he started in 1992, this serious connection with the,

the christian designers. and he was asked about these a, you know, the find letters in the contract. namely, the dues would be either bobby cute, didn't have all the to do research on it in this design scenarios the end of time. and he said, that doesn't matter now with mentors is that now we have genuine headlines and i think that's how these ladies are treated. but moses res, i would say underwear of course of. ready and they just a very even though right, they don't know very much and their media feeds them. this kind of narrative. ready and historical knowledge which fits the ideology and the propaganda rather than allows them to be creative, those thinkers and, and take a more independent position towards the reality. so given what we've been seeing in recent weeks, always seeing the beginning of the end, or could we be seeing the end of the israel project?

it's a very good question. and i, i think that, uh, the terminal is really wor that uh, kind of raised me for the same as of october between with i both the state of do the name, the, the state of the settlers. let's see on a deal practice from the minute the list and the state at least the most secular. um kind of multicultural version of these really i thought they were fighting each other for the future. i think this a despite the fact that it has stopped, of course, because of the war will be resumed very soon. i. ready if you can see the integration void arriving again, this enclosing soul with a, i think it indicates always a because uh, uh for the beginning of the end of all the end of, of the beginning if you want. but uh, i do warm you and the viewer is there any story in these processes which we to

as beginning of an end can be quite long in our lifetime. uh and more important there uh like dishes and fees. we remember the last days of uh, a buffet, so as after got a some other energies like that and therefore uh yes, i do think that the. ready validity of this project is not holding water and it'd be the levy, the right the raise is really don't really say the knowledge. it seems as we're going to is only 2 options. and i agree with him either a knew nothing about. and this is unfolding in front of our eyes as we speak or a one democratic state for. ready and i still hope and it has to be an active list as well as a new story. and it has to be optimised is that despite the, the unfolding of the 1st option maybe was into nash. ready and regional

intervention, we might build the basis for the 2nd option. there is no 3rd option. the present reality will not stay forever. so it's either adult, the task to feed or hopefully building a very different future to those. but his name is andrews in the story for lender, by this time. and of course, accompanying all of this uh these uh, warships and perhaps one of the largest nato nation. ahmad is in history in the eastern mediterranean. the form is extra, genuinely, i really gamma most runs out. it is joe smiled when i asked, why is it everyone keeps invoking in ron? when it comes that i'm us. sunni organizations is a boat and it's some guys is the u. s. policy in syria trying to with, through a president that said, how successfully is how successful is the media en espanol and joe biden. and your v indeed is in trying to make out that this is somehow to do with a ron the october 7th attack. this is, i think we have the best,

the narratives, and we have something that i goal the best, the pretext with the context. and namely, people use the same as a, told her as a pretext to implement policies that were unable to implementing food before. let's take the americans, the americans use the, the, the events of the service over to her as a pretext, to resend a research military presence in the, in the area and to try and win back. some of that has them on the they have lost and due to their failed policies after 2000. and one is really easy to use the event as a pretext to implement the massive asked me cleansing, which they could not the implemented during the time of the war i do for the time of peace because there was no peace. but as he's in time of no war is really is fully aware that using a. ready or you can do much. ready in terms of mass explosions,

then you can do uh during the time of now. ready or so, yes i, i do think that this is one method of not do the other one is a, goes to, to build this story that the earnings behind everything like an octopus that sends all its, uh, you know, uh, whatever you call them, hands into, into or. ready faxing things into, into various areas. instead of, you know, listening to the secretary general's the united nation, who would say, how much does it need to you're on the listing is don't need to, you're on uh to resist. as throughout the use of the. ready population calling. ready zation and oppression against these ladies. there's no need for any power from the outside with the region, little international to pay like personalized people who are exposed to ethnic lensing and now getting the size of the policies. they don't need someone from the

outside to tell them to try and was as a and to drive to the. ready store and stuff this uh colonization and oppression. uh its but incredible how some intelligent people in the west. uh repeating this uh, narrative which comes out of the hollywood budget has nothing to do with the reality on the ground. anyone who knows the other thing is driving from the very beginning, knows as christians and muslims are involved in that that it has a very str. ready left a side to it as well. that is relies on a restaurant in china and iran in brazil, and other countries are willing to challenge the american hegemony. i mean, this is a typical world and people only in this drug. ready that just in terms of period the zation is outside the convention. the framework of most of the empty colonial and successful is driving that happened totally between the 1970s until the end of

the last century. but this is an ongoing struggle. the last of that period they just didn't materialize it. i know it is a picture on social media and check of our in, in gaza doing the rounds. and it was louise also who we interviewed on this. show the president of bolivia as of to 7 diplomatic relations with israel. we saw a columbia acting as you say, brazil, china, russia, all these different voices quietly confident that the arab, well doesn't really matter when it comes to what's happening in guys that regardless of a pattern, the summit in saudi arabia inside the they don't really have any impact into what happens to palestinians and all the thousands of children being killed. the yes, the it's the very least the position by the ira barely jews because i like the genes themselves or societies are very. ready interesting is still regard palestine

is a symbol for. ready of the struggling to be out of. ready ready together to be deliberated, to strive and to progress. so i'm going a such a leeway against. ready wishes of most of the people who live in the, in these are countries can that can be very dangerous in the future. i think it's not a coincidence. the, during the so called the, i don't know if the spring assume many of the demonstrators don't themselves with about us being in a flag. i think there is a kind of an understanding that there is a very complex reality here. you have some regions that assignable committed to the struggle on the side of the better state is like the syrian one. and the same time, they also have their own issues of human rights and civil rights. that the auto blue ones, ones 2 souls which gives you a very clear indication that without

a just solution for the palestine question, the other will not be able to deal with issues of human rights and civil rights release itself from the grip of american imperialism. and build itself as an independent and the bulletin actor in international relations hasn't gone by. how stop you the more from the director of european incentive about a senior studies at the university of extra, after this frank, the, the, or the,

the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the renown just story and then all of the all the ethnic cleansing of palestine dive as a non profit. while we were talking about instability in this region, but of course, it becomes increasingly clear that in the same nato countries arming the ledge, genocide in gaza. this seems to be a degree of instability given the british politicians are considering binding the palestinian flag in uh, in britain of shocking the obviously the united states wouldn't do that. they have a, they have a 1st amendment. what makes this conflict and, and as i say in

a genocide occurring now, so different in terms of blow back when it comes to a civic society in the united states in western europe. the exist in both the states, the very beginnings that is a risk is this event is it doesn't, it's all the game changer it's, it's uh was however, the events in does. ready unfold is right, it would still be in the pocket state design isn't, would still be a circular, colonial state. and the other thing will still be colonized people struggling with very little regional and international help to drive. and when they're at negotiation, independence and treat them. so so i think that is where you, you, you and from that perspective you can see that there is, there may be a change in the lead. ready on sup. ready to the civil society, maybe it's even more. ready movie it's higher then it was, and there is an exactly the,

the mirror image of it. there is even less solar and by the government's in the west to allow freedom of speech and on palestine. i think all this would for tuesday unfortunately depends how you look at it go back to its previous levels. namely, i'm afraid that. ready level is also the directors of both of the other thing is would not be the same after the events and goes again however they would end it. but on the other end, i'm quite sure that the draconian measures that the base of government, for example, is taken, may not really stay in place. so that's a really shows us that as active is especially in the solely donkey movement. we should think about this is a chapter that a lot as a, as a, as an event i was out of context and everything we faced as challenges. and the biggest challenge we have at least in the global most and in the west is the civil

society that he's very broke on this thing and, and yet unable until today to have any significant insights on the policies of the governments towards palestine. this is that for me is a main issue i'm, i'm, i'm less vista though though it, i'm outraged schools when president biden, it tries to explain why he does not support the chinese and russian coal for a ceasefire, which is the most normal and the right thing to do i know thing how, how they can sleep at night knowing what it means, not to a color for the site, but only known. i don't think that this is that different toler policies in the future in the past, and i'm afraid this will be. ready the policies in the future i these my only hope is that somehow the civil societies and so the, during the movement maybe that was them. well, maybe the world would step upgrade. the call is what you want this only diety with

about his being is and make you to month and much more effective factor in changing the reality on the ground. not just in. ready the distilled agend, assigning goes up, but also to uh, change the reality because as you probably know, more than 100, but his ears were killed since the beginning of the service of october in the west bank sizes have been arrested without trying. and the palestinians citizens and israel being harassed daily and by the police and andrew citizen. so we have here a situation. ready were all the other students all over historically, by this thing, need urgently the international community in the region to intervene because they're in balance of power at this moment that history is against them. or is there a change because as per events of the un security council of to be you a back resolution? it is now okay. according to london, berlin washington said that killing children,

invoice numbers on the basis of their ethnicity is okay. now, as a self defense that's now being established. yeah. you know i, i'm even willing to give them some sort of a margin of, of doubt that they do not fully understand. and that's only about the, the leaders at what their message they're supposed to is way or how their message to support in it was very, is understood by these ratings. and it'll be about the society and the police, the leadership like it is these minutes, you know, if you don't follow them and houses are these really flat colors, are these red flags or the, the, the ice of dollars with the colors of these ladies like he's right, he's understand it is a mess. it says we absolves you from all the things you have done until the service

of october, and you have another free license to do whatever you want, regardless of international and the laws laws in, in the does the state. uh, i'm not sure every american, every british policy makers uh, is, is, this is the kind of message they want. it is a that to have. i still hope some of them are the logical of humanity in them. uh, but what we know from the story is that zine is lo, be in america in britain, even if they would have no doubts whether they took the right decision by giving is rarely stopped lunch. they would be very timid and careful not to a challenge these very low be in the countries and, and be, you know, exposed to allegations of the same it is and so on. so it's, it's a situation where they are in the reputable that they themselves put themselves in it. and this is an assumption that the, some of them are not as,

as colors as you have just described them, you know, totally in different due to the images and, and india and the repos we're getting on and i'll on the basis it's on the, does this good, while they were proud about if you trucks coming across the graphic, crossing, of course, and for all the international isolation of these nato powers. as regards what's happening, why the using violent be approved, you then change in being leads, administration, speed it so necessary to talk about a 2 state solution after all the work you've done after all the work. so many scholars have done it to explain why only a one state solution will solve this question. it is interesting to say that i, i spend a very excellent 2 weeks in china in the beginning of this month teaching. and so

in. ready universe, these summit, few diplomats from the chinese foreign ministry and i put that question to them as well. and i think the the mission that the both the russians for and ministry image and use linguistic sheila data even though . ready is do at least challenge the new this goes the west is putting that's what matters now is. ready how is road to a implemented is the destructive policies and only pay a live service to a solution in the future? so in any way it is, i hope it is destined to indicate that these 2 powers, these 2 global powers, might be more involved in the future. and i still learning what should be the original position, because i think also china, china and russia. and he's recently,

you know, if you think about the russian participation in the port that's before we're allowing the west and especially in the united states to be the main mediate. and really this, all of this, both are but to the domain broker. if they want to replace it with maybe other countries, like their busy lives, south africa is broke, is probably they would have to study again, the origins of the conflict, the essence of the conflict. and hopefully they would understand that the 2 state solution is not viable anymore. and if there is an international pressure, it should be towards a different kind of political solution. of course, given this discussion between as it would pull any member of netanyahu's cabinet and a left wing so called left clicking is riley's, how desperate, good, uh, israel. and i mean that you all good of course go to jail anyway after this car in

the beginning, but uh, how desperate could the is really leads get what is the nuclear weapon threats in israel? um i think that so far i, i really cannot predict, uh i, i can only to tell you. ready i thing happened so far at these really uh elite is made of 2 main uh, components $11.00 is the political one and the other one is the security organization which includes the army and was the secret service. and so on to do today. uh, the additions where contains a limited in their extra is against your, um by the people who are paying for all the security up in there, so to speak. uh, however, there is a demographic changing those institutions. and quite

a lot of people who come from the settlements, i know, beginning to climb up in the asher loans, also have the security services. so i don't know how long. ready is more goes more pragmatic, you know, even low risk and i'm willing to give it to them. ready i shall approach that was the around all the use of nuclear weapons. how long will it be sustained if i'm, if my feet are, which would become true that the demo rusty, expose that particular military. and so use the lead with exchange at which time. uh it, by the way, this, this uh lead does not have the bonus being is you over so you can see if they, oh, they totally agree with the presentations about the, the, the destruction of the palestinians and genocide, the policies and ethnic cleansing policies. but when it comes to regional war, i think they're a bit more bushes then they are right, we politicians. so we have to watch and see whether this balance of power is

changing. in order to fully answer your a right to an important question. present you on palm and thank you a thank you very much and that's it for the show. and condolences from the whole team here, we're going underground to those bereaved by the ongoing violence here in the middle east. we'll be back in the brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch my last social media if it's not sensitive and your country and had to a channel going under warranty. if you all know people don't come, don't you handled episodes of going on dependencies after the on july, the 8th 1941 german troops ended and a stony of from the south. soviet soldiers and civilians full of the enemy courageously on the stony and soil go with thousands of casualties found out that

the us wants to but we are giving you $52.00. i get that. i'm not sure if our cuter, which vehicle even as the beauty we bought the what is pushing that during the years following the soviet victory, a large number of monuments loveless and burial sites, were rented to on of those who had fallen in the wall to get get the vs however, recently, many of them have either been demolished vandalized or completely neglected that we sold the of those who do their best to preserve once the left of the memory . so as to prevent, rewrite history and roommate consciousness profile for the why it's uh the,

the, the is this how is ready as slides result in more than 100 past in depth? i'm multitudes of injuries in an estimate 48 hours. if it is a cost of the enclave us government survive is very defensive as of proposed, as opposed to apply open the door, the influence complete control over the territory and a massive so far as our as you had passed sign, an estimated $2000000.00 people joined protests throughout the year and here's one of the, the vows rentavision for what he says was in his rate. so i can be rude to the senior. i must have been the.