was $0.75 of the amount of kids and women. there's about 10000 people are missed this i bought this too fast and just most of them the most of them are in danger to, to buy the. so what we are facing at in the, and uh and this year and a griffin, which one to this month. and it's not a mess, not that is a stomach bug, but better thing. and people from their own houses as they are on land and get all the country to but event them the size that right instead of it, the minister is really president. i is the occurs dog has cold. so i thought, freak is appealed to the international court. of justice, quotes, atrocious and preposterous. now it's in relation to pretoria earlier filing,

a case of choosing israel of cardiology, operation, quote, genocidal in character in gaza on thursday, april receiving one start in the international court of justice and a while by the south africa. as soon as the israel fall, supposedly genocide does nothing more atrocious and preposterous than this flame as well. so that for get filed its legal objection with the un international court of justice in december, urging the court to take measures against these really on the slot. first hearing is expected tomorrow, thursday. the organization of islamic cooperation, surprising more than 50 countries, has by the lawsuit against issued cert, kia malaysian lots in american state of libya also expressed support for the public to the west side. africa expert told us that cooperation in the global size, how strengthens while the west responds to ongoing atrocities and guns

a has been lucky but living at all to solve countries believe in the field, right of human rights and the rhetoric, resistance of power, steering and people and the people of the world and part of the process of libya's fight is solidified. but a many international actors had a case up by piece of africa way they banded together to fight a very fruitful and a repressive regime at an international level. taking this on a day or 2 with the civilians that are conscious of the mexican and part of the pulse of the, of the printer such as, believe yes of africa and the rest of the global cells. why they can't seem to believe this actually is to increase is the lack of response filed by was the active lack of a compassion and some deputy with the over 24000 feet do also billions. that'd be good to the method could within the has a strip for $2.00, which was informed policy is busy, especially the punch of vacation around human rights has been gone and has been seen as contradictory. and let's see that's critical. and we look at the human rest

of trustees, county being funded by the us in some wisdom act is especially on the issue is with other states. and therefore page national communities, especially. so the africa realizing the israel funded and supplied onto the of ideas and she, and so the africa has decided to take up on this action to ensure that simple international accountability on the international arena. and not the that the, the lives and the level of policies remain a bit. and so say can the right time for a wedding state visit to the cross talk studios in moments of peter and guess today talked about noticeable shifts in western rhetoric on the brain conflict. it's chronic. alexa, stone ortiz, the base of the solutions, the,

[000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, the conflict in ukraine to move into its 3rd year during this time. much has happened and many predictions made. western rhetoric has also changed a lot from russia is losing to ukraine, has already one and 2 biden's as long as we can. rhetoric doesn't change the reality on the ground. the cross shocking ukraine, i'm showing you. why my guess lawrenceville was an in falls church. he is a former chief of staff to the chairman of the us joint chiefs of staff and in mont

of say, we cross through friday on tell him he is an independent journalist and a contributor at 21st century wire dot com. all right, gentlemen, cross lock rolls and the fact that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate where if i can go to you 1st here as we go into the new year and the 3rd year of this conflict here, i think it's fair to say, and i'm a pretty skeptical person. i've watched a lot of your commentary. you're very skeptical as well, but it was a glimmer. a sliver of realism is beginning to come into the conversation. unfortunately, and until the centers around finance and of funding this war in proxy war in ukraine. but at the same time, there's still a lot of magical thinking. what are your thoughts as the new year starts? and i think the funding issue is more a congressional problem than it is a statement of, on whether or not to us still support you crying. although i do detect attendance the of, of a fall off there. and i would say that uh,

there are as many republicans as democrats who frankly did test brushes for what reasons i'm unable to file them. but they do. and so i wouldn't discount the possibility possibility the money eventually coming through that said, you're right about the fall off. i think biden's administration realizes that this is a losing proposition, but his focus now is entirely on winning the presidency again in 2024. and he is going to be judge justice calculus now strategic and otherwise he's going to be judging every action on that. i think what they've decided, at least as it really is. the last key has last, but ukraine is one. and how do you present that? and how do you take that to negotiations? well, i, you're right. i'm actually been more fascinated with the how they spun this conflict . uh, the rhetoric behind it ready. it's very interesting is that we had the last major shift was from as long as it takes us as long as we can. and that tells you

a whole lot. and, and essentially you're, there's a sense here that the, by the ministration is saying, well, we did what we could do. now this is a hot potato and they're throwing it to congress as well. i absolutely say, i think this said this is a situation that's really been informed, a formal questionnaire as we speak. and we're seeing this a, this a scenario on folding, which doesn't make any sense. and as my company decides, you know, it doesn't make a lot of science at this moment because the amounts of money that has been thrown, not only to words israel, but also towards the ukraine, is starting to industry break into buying. and it's breaking the bank, which means that the demand savanski is now and has by now realize that he's no longer in the front of the q i. these basically has to wait in line. and i think for me, what's we, the most striking is the, or, of course,

the new speaker house mike johnson on dine loyalty to israel. it's become very clear to me that the jefferson room is no longer a priority for the house republicans. and so we have to draw lessons as well as from the previous speakers. my call to you as well, which was a big supporter of you trying more efforts, which is probably part of the reason why it was likely hosted in the 1st place. but for those that have played attention to the, we can see that in 2020 for many walks you know and doesn't matter. and which bands they all see things, they wouldn't be getting more money, which is water, ironic sense that the, the leadership chatted, was about reducing the office you were spending in the festing span. so there's a lot of things that really don't make any sense at the moment of what we're saying . and i think it's, it's really going to affect the bottom line and the outcome of these conflicts. well, i'm not really sure, larry, let me go back to you. i mean, video, the only thing that congress actually really does when you think about it is spend money or maybe waste money. but i think it's, you know,

what are we getting for this money here? because russia, it should have been bankrupt by now. crimea should be back in ukrainian hands. i mean, i could go on and on. i mean, it's fine. does he know? so we have a bill of goods. so what do we actually getting for? i mean, we'll spend the money, but you know, where's the victory parade? and i think that's one of the problems that there, it's a problem of selling it also. larry, absolutely true that i will say that the american people have not been present in this debate really not significantly. and there are reasons for that. but i sense that they are increasingly worried about what's happening, particularly in gaza and just to show how gaza impacted ukraine. just look at the 155 are to worry around. we were sending hundreds of them thousands of them to ukraine from our reserve stocks in israel that got stopped really quickly. so this

new conflict in gaza is not only peeling people away from bod. it's impacting the entire country in terms of and i've, i didn't think in my lifetime, i would see this. yeah. in terms of the american people support for israel. it is falling off dramatically even amongst jewish americans, particularly among a lot of jewish americans. i but i can't tell you both how many of the regular guests on this program who happened to be a jewish from american and europe clamoring, you know, feeling up my inbox, they want to talk about this because they're so infuriating. and of course is something i talked about every week, but to stay with your brain here. freddy, i mean it's one of the things it's, it's very interesting is that we all know since where he's brought up gaza. we know that all around the world in particularly in the western world, you see these protests against the war in gaza. we're all the protests for ukraine . i miss them. i,

i see i seem to think because this was an elite project from the very, very beginning. most people didn't know where ukraine was, they probably still don't. okay. but this was an elite agenda. that is really not going anywhere. i mean, the least gonna stick with it. i, i'm, i'm, i'm sure of that, but never caught on in the public imagination as well. it's, it's, it's a very good point to peter because obviously, i mean, it's friends and cent per year. mainly you're, you're seeing the, the lack of insurance for this, the ukrainian russian conflict to us diminished friedman dislike. i think everybody's going back to their priority domestically we, we consider us doing that as well. you know, where the political agenda and even towards the preparation of the prize you the presidential election in 2024. i think people are re focusing on what's important we focusing on. obviously the border for it for the united states in europe, throat is trying to basically tackle the items very,

very southern installation which has creep all the businesses all across the european member space. and then of course we have this problem of immigration, which is the fullest problem, but is wrong. the address, big pull communications under a terry bull agenda that is on folding under your pin member states for the last past 2 years. i saw on the crises of you print a p. is that something that is just on the side that will keep you? well, because we just have too much problem about and, and it's getting very, very difficult for a government to solve the id of, you know, sending more money to ukraine. and i think there is all governments, whether it's us, but it's the european members that were more reasonable for the us that would probably take 20 percent of that money to send to you, cried and trying to finish the trunk sold, for example, at the border and then for europe it will be the same. we have still a lot of people, the slipping, the car people directory need for help and supports with the winter commons. i mean these other people we need to support, how can we help orders? when can we can't even help ourselves. and that's, i think,

the reason why we're right now losing interest and supporting you. right? you know, very it's, it's also interesting, larry, is that the, the, the, the thrust of this policy and ukraine was always the punish russia. and if, if they're not getting that and in return is maverick russian economy is back on track. it's a, in a growing account territory. the, the rubel is fine. trade is fine. i mean, none of the things that they had predicted. so, i mean, what's the, you know, bang for the buck. i mean, how much more do you want to spend on getting 0 results all the money for the but for lockheed martin and right the on and i most of the volume of course such as far as see of course, if there was quite literally, if you had shareholder mediators meetings where c e o 's are citing to the shareholders. a business is good businesses really far. and that's the answer right to the leads of america, the millionaire. she made some money off. there's more. but you're also right to

the and my colleagues there is right in saying that people are tired of the wasted . we're looking at millions of dollars having been wasted. and in this country, we're looking at a $343536.00 trillion dollar aggregate debt and next year, a trillion dollar interest payments on that that and federal discretionary spending probably nothing but entitlements and the defense budget. there will be no money left over. so this is just, this is getting of a real problem for the same par, trying to keep its finances and order because it's been so flagrantly irresponsible with the wars over the last 20 plus years. wars. incidentally that none of what, none of which it has one effect. yeah. it's, it's, it's a disaster for the weather. there's the, there's no downside and failing is there, larry? and there's no down side. no, no downside whatsoever. we, we take general c failed $8910.00 times in a row,

and i've gotten it started for example, and make them to use of service or send them to lockheed for 7 larry larry o, you probably know this number. i mean, how many generals were there in the 2nd world war as opposed to a number of generals today? and it's about 8 to one difference. the more all the ways be, be, please be very specific for my viewers, 8 to one in what direction? well, we're talking about more generals for troops. uh now the in world war 2, when we had 12000000 man under arms and much more worse. and then that is in the last 5 years of the 4 star general was retiring 80 percent of them went to work in the defense complex. well i guess that's why you get, well, it's kind of very much like a can to a politicians today, particularly in europe. you become prime minister just to go work for tony blair or later or bill gates. okay. it seems that public service is not the highest calling for these people at what's actually

a big deal. actually. i was testifying before elizabeth warren's committee in the senate recently and the writing majority member from florida. rick scott essentially said, why shouldn't these guys go out and get to make some money where they would, but it was pointed out she was holding a hearing based on the ethics in the defense department. and this is the right came minority member, republican rich scott from florida saying also what they should be able to get. and larry, before we go to the break here, that's why they love nikki haley. she understands how the game works and she's very good at it. right gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine states with our team,

the the, the local make across stock were all things are considered. i'm cute little about your mind you were discussing. you create the okay. i also part of our conversation we in belgrade, we have the even gaiety as a research associate, a bill grades institute of european studies. welcome to the program here. um, better late than never. um, well, i've been talking with larry and freddy about how the the ukraine project is progressing in this new year. one of the things that's very interesting also when we look at it is

a and i'm full of focus very much and how it's pitch to the public. well, i wouldn't be surprised to see, are they gonna say, well, you claim is already one, okay. you know, and, and so, you know, the russians have been defeated. they didn't take 80 pur, uh, they left the 80 percent of ukraine unoccupied. so they, they're a winner. okay. i can see the edits already. you. if you look at some of the think tanks that are already trying to sell this to the public, go ahead. i think they are, and in a way they might be riots because for, from the standpoint on washington, this was a pre meditated war crime. because what they see is parts of ex, soviet union and find the charter. so the big secret is that actually most of ukrainian or russian, and in a sense this is a russian against russian civil war. so that is why a washington is just fueling the fire by giving the old and some of the new weapons

so that their old enemy can, can tire itself in, in this war. however, i think that this won't work because russia is not going to buy debate, and it won't accept the so called korea scenario. the other thing is the 2nd best option, apart from rational following a bargain. you know, the, even with the national corporation staging got all the loads is uh for this frozen conflicts to last for the next couple of decades. so that today you have this anti rush uh, basically uh, sitting next to russia and uh and, and uh, preparing for the kids to, well, you know, that i, we've heard this is like a comic strip, isn't it? okay? because they all of these things that we hear, i'm going to go to larry right now. all these little theories that we come out, the rush is absent from the decision making process. they're, they're the object they're, they're always focused. we, they, they don't have any say, you know, larry, another, one of the trends we've seen is the,

you cleaning ization of the process to build their own arms right now. you know, this is an echo of how the us tried to get out of, uh, uh, indo china, you know, leave it to the locals here. no, it didn't work out. obviously it won't work out this time, but this is another. um, uh, the square foot discursive chains. they're trying to push larry, i don't. uh, i don't question that right or ash. now the reason i, i do question 3rd is the decision to invade when they did the because i think it was quite clear hardly because of rushes, establishing some sort of obedience, if you will, within germany with regard to energy. i think it was quite clear night those days were numbered and what student did by invading understand why they do not understand as motivation. i don't necessarily accept the fact that he had doing, bade but understand that my toe was going. it wouldn't have the last another decade in my view,

t solidified it pretty significantly by the invasion. i think it's still going, but it will take longer now and it will fall apart around the edges before it falls out of the center. and germany will be that center that takes it apart. so i don't, i don't, by the idea that the conflict can continue without some real, real, real repercussions. it needs to stop not least of which uh, not least reason of which is the same reason gods and they just stop all the killing. all the just yeah, well, have an all in all the distraction from other problems we have not least of which is no nuclear weapons treated regime whatsoever anymore. and, and a lot of a smaller it states, again, thinking about getting nuclear weapons. there's a lot of good development. you know a, freddy? i just didn't. i didn't, larry's russian. i was very interested in your i, i, i've thought about it too about the trajectory of, of nato. and this conflict is actually, you've given it a shot in the arm,

i understand that, but losing against russia is also going to be very, very painful. and it's gonna be hard to reconcile. continuing it, go ahead. but it's going to be that sort so terribly difficult for them for the size anyway, it is, know we know in, in, in that sides better. i think for me, different in the room when we talk about changing the narrative is uh what do use use to cite them? well, they're trying to sign. i mean, we started, we have as long as we text and we end up this conflict with literally as long as they can. so clearly it is a problem. yeah. so establishing a narrative of victory based on numbers, numbers, which we have, but we have a point of 400000. you trading that in this conflict. i mean, we're not talking about small numbers and is all peter's i, in my view, is that i impossible to, to sell it. they are very difficult to sell as a big 3. and the us, i think in the european tax payers are very sensitive to the, to but, and of course if you have to have the loss of service or reason to get back or do

you pray, uncomfortable fences or you've left with 2 studies is a victory with the promise of what tomorrow might be made off. nothing is really is concrete. it's and it's pause. that's french people. for example, each reminder, somebody to be the polio and it was, you know, it was creating a great victory. but losing all of these, all right, so your cost so that in europe, i'm not too sure about the united states. so it's proceed within the public realm, but are in front of people in the buying it. so building a narrative on that is going to be extremely, extremely difficult. and uh, i think also we can hold for stephen. also the public is conceiving that, dividing the administration is on tremendous pressure off to do by coal of d. i've got histone retreats, and that's what he's bringing an important role to die because on the p or seen. and it's the message that he's going to be construct around. basically this, the fits us to be some form of victory,

doesn't have to make sense. it just has to be constructed. that's why. oh yeah, i mean, is a, the, the, the russians didn't make it to paris. they be. so, you know, ukraine, one, i mean the, it'll be something it was really like that okay. statement. but, you know, ukraine is also under the norm as amount of strain. i mean, obviously it's young men don't want to fight, obviously because of the meat grinder. but we have a collapse of the economy as well. i mean, and even civil society in order are at stake here in the, in very few people actually talk about that. go ahead, steven. exactly. i mean it, that estimate is around 30000 people legally. leave the country for goods every month. and god knows how many man are trying to make the late red save. and you do brought up a really good point. they're leaving for good. they're not to in the people that have less, they're probably not going to come back. keep going. that's exactly exactly. and on are the thing, is that now you, great,

and ministry of defense is buying 50000 women's infantry gear, which says a lot. and it seems to me that they really don't respect life and are ready to dispense every person. uh, i can't even say man anymore because now they're, they're a mobilizing everybody including people with disabilities which, which we seem uh, in the boss uh, to fight and to pay on this uh for uh for a day or 2. however, i think that at some point there will be a complete collapse, a complete society will collapse and eventually calculation. i think that's the only the only way out of this conflict because otherwise it just won't end. well, you know, larry, i am we guy. steven just brought up the 50000 um uh uno apartments for women. and that tells you one thing, but it tells me something. now i wonder how much each uniform cost. okay. well,

you know, it was a $5000.00 per, i mean this, this whole gripped it is, is infuriating because that's how i have a centrally look at it. for people in the west powerful people. it's a griffin, they're just drawing us aside in the process. look, larry, go ahead and uh, falls church. no that's but that's a huge component of it, but we're, we're dealing in the weeds now. they're important weeds, perhaps, and also a lot of blood and those weeds, but we're looking at a situation in this country right now. where if we stay on the current course with regard to our situation and gaza and all of a lot in general, we probably are going to be inviting a regional war. and the red sea is a, is a, just a tiny little part of that right now. but, and i participated in a more game series about 5 years ago, and it all places you us institute of peace, where we brought in everyone to you, britain, in germany, all, all the people in the world who were interested in the red sea. and there was a lot of shock in that room,

even mercy car was there because they were in with the booth season or, or in with uh, you know, many in, uh, but who is the conflict. and that is the new cock peer to strategic competition. now, and we're seeing the persian golf minutes, you look at the commerce that flows through the i'd say. so there are there's, there are a lot of things percolating right now, particularly for the empire, the american name. well, hey larry, i don't know. i don't know if you notice it with john kirby and his many media appearances. i find it really quite curious when he was talking about getting that blood. why don't you get a lot of media and he really isn't ready. i, you know, but i never let me, let me bid is because i think you'll agree with me. he said, but this, that we really, really have an interest here. we actually have a re, i mean, who gave it away? is that ukraine? no, we don't. okay. we have no interest in watching a jetta side, but in trade, what we really do care about that. i thought it was such a give away larry. we have 60 percent of the world commerce flows through there and,

and diverting it the way they're having to do to a certain extent right now can get very, very expensive and raise prices all across the world. we did a simulation exercise with petroleum in beijing in 2009 and the chinese or other and a shocked when we showed them what would happen if we disturb things like insurance, ship builders and ships owners wanting to apply the season. so this is a very disruptive situation and copays right, it will use that this is serious stuff or is there other things or series in terms of the blood that's following but not necessarily serious in terms of the realtor courtesy. interesting. i size and draw near showers. right to any says we're focusing on ukrainians and to certainly so gaza when the real threat, if there is a genuine threat and the world state threat to the united states has in china. and what does the ukraine war done? but my moscow and china almost in the tacit lives. so we have made

a lot of errors in the past 20 years. all right. say that again. the last where do or we get is over 40 seconds or what do we get to see? how is you can get in this calendar year ready? well, i think is that for me it's very clear that so you frame the decision to and this conflict will come from the united states. but for me, you're trying to print as never decided anything. and just conflict, a nature what and do us what, what come up with a story to tell. but what's very important, peter, is there is a clock attached to that more time responding. less territories and less weight. they're going to have. we've induced negotiations, and i think that's really a to take away is doing to spend the time is up to us since, because russia is in no rush rush. all right, that is a very key point. the point, and i'm, and that's exactly where we're going to end this program here. i want to thank my guess in the falls church bells right handed mercy. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. you next time, remember,

cross stuck with the, [000:00:00;00] the at least 10 people are killed in robinson gung violence in ecuador. does the president declares the states of internal art in conflict in the south american country. about software and ecuadorian tv studio was rated audit stuff. briefly ticking hostage in the midst of a live broadcast. also head on the programming gals, more than a dozen people are killed on scores more when data is,