cause they were never happy with it. and $96.00, they were able to then have another agreement signed. and it's on the basis of that night to night is the $66.00 agreement, which is known as the disease agreement that the un secretary general because of the ongoing tension was able in 2018 to rephrase the matter to see international court of justice. so it's been going on for a while and the main issue is that then as well, then as we have the people believe that the original agreement to allocate that line tagano was basically a matter of collusion between the west. it caused them to the powers that it was not the year assigned much of the territory to die out. now do a venezuela and diana agreed just last month to avoid the use of force in their feud over s a co. now if you had this visit by the us defense official, could that have an impact on this agreement?

so i believe that the, sorry would you give me a question again for you? sure. um, would you give me a quick look at sure we have we have the us defense official visits um, just one month after venezuela and diana agreed to avoid the use of force in their feud over it. so people do you think that will likely have an impact on that agreement of not using force because we've had this visit now from the us defense official. so i've got to speak to that. what i would say is that if this it does trend, then guideline us position because they can say, hey, i have this, you know, this a big, strong ally on my side. so that if you mess with me, you know, you have more to worry about. so you have to see very judicial, have been thinking about whether or not you will attack me, let me die on it. because as i mentioned before it in pre existing to fuel,

ghana does not have the military capability to which stand an onslaught from venezuela. so being able to show that they have that kind of support from the us is a forcing for to, to bolster in their top coffee, then sense of verifiability, right? independent journalist enjoy frasier, jewel, thank you. you're welcome. all right, just say was our to international up next on cross talk, peter lavelle and his guest discussed the changing western narrative over the ukraine conflict by the

the hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, the conflict in ukraine to move into its 3rd year during this time much has happened and many predictions made. western rhetoric has also changed a lot from russia is losing to ukraine has already one and 2 biden's. as long as we can. rhetoric doesn't change the reality on the ground, the cross shocking ukraine, i'm showing you. why my guess lawrence will listen to in falls church. he is

a former chief of staff to the chairman of the us going chief of staff and in mont of say, we cross through friday on tell him he is an independent journalist and a contributor at 21st century wire dot com. all right, gentlemen, cross lock rolls in effect, that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate where if i can go to you 1st here as we go into the new year and the 3rd year of this conflict here, i think it's fair to say, and i'm a pretty skeptical person. i've watched a lot of your commentary. you're very skeptical as well, but it was a glimmer, a sliver of realism is beginning to come into the conversation. unfortunately, it until the centers around finance and of funding this war in proxy war in ukraine . but at the same time, there's still a lot of magical thinking. what are your thoughts as the new year starts? i think the funding issue is more a congressional problem than it is a statement on whether or not to us still support you crying. although i do detect

the tendency of, of a fall off there. and i would say that uh, there are as many republicans as democrats, who frankly did test brushes for what reasons i'm unable to file them. but they do . and so i wouldn't discount the possibility possibility the money eventually coming through that said, you're right about the fall off. i think biden's administration realizes that this is a losing proposition, but his focus now is entirely on winning the presidency again in 2024. and he is going to be judge us as calculus now strategic and otherwise he's going to be judging every action on that. i think what they've decided, at least as it really is. the last key has last, but ukraine is one. and how do you present that and how do you take that to negotiations? well, i, you're right. i'm actually been more fascinated with the how they spun this conflict . uh, the rhetoric behind it ready. it's very interesting is that we had the last major

shift was from as long as it takes us as long as we can. and that tells you a whole lot and, and essentially you're, there's a sense here that divided administration is saying, well, we did what we could do. now this is a hot potato and they're throwing it to congress as well. i absolutely say, i think this said this is a situation that's really been informed, a formal questionnaire as we speak. and we seeing this a, this a scenario on folding, which doesn't make any sense. and as my company decides, you know, it doesn't make a lot of science at this moment because the amounts of money that has been thrown, not only to words as well, but also towards the ukraine, is starting to industry bring that came to buying and is breaking the bank, which means that the minister lensky is now and has by now realize that he's no longer in the front of the q i. these basically has to wait in line. and i think for me, what's we, the most striking is the, or, of course,

the new speaker house mike johnson on dine loyalty to israel. it's become pretty clear to me that jefferson is no longer a priority for the house republicans. and so we have to draw lessons as well as from the previous speakers. my call to you as well, which was a big supporter of you trying more efforts, which is probably part of the reason why it was likely hosted in the 1st place. but for those that have play the tension, peter, we can see that in 2024, many walks you know and doesn't matter. and which bands that they all suit things, they wouldn't be getting more money, which is broader, ironic since the, the, the leadership change was about reducing the office. he was spending in the festing span. so there's a lot of things that really don't make any sense at the moment of what we're saying . and i think it's, it's really going to affect the bottom line and the outcome of these conflicts. well, i'm not really sure, larry, let me go back to you. i mean, video, the only thing that congress actually really does when you think about it is spend

money or maybe waste money. but i think it's, you know, what are we getting for this money here? because russia, it should have been bankrupt by now. crimea should be packing. ukrainian hands. i mean, i could go on and on. i mean, it's fine. does he know? so we have a bill of goods. so what do we actually getting part? i mean, we'll spend the money, but you know, where's the victory parade? and i think that's one of the problems that there, it's a problem of selling it also. larry, absolutely true. so i will say that the american people have not been present in this debate really not significantly. and there are reasons for that. but i sense that there are increasingly worried about what's happening, particularly in gaza. and just to show how gaza impacted ukraine. just look at the 155 are to worry around. we were sending hundreds of them thousands of them to ukraine from our reserve stocks in israel. that got stopped really quickly. so this

new conflict in gaza is not only peeling people away from bod. it's impacting the entire country in terms of and i've, i didn't think in my lifetime, i would say this. yeah. in terms of the american people support for israel. it is falling off dramatically even amongst jewish americans, particularly among a lot of jewish americans. i but i can't tell you both how many of the regular guests on this program who happened to be a jewish from american and europe clamoring. you know, the feeling of my inbox. they want to talk about this because they're so infuriating. and of course is something i talk about every week, but to stay with your brain here. freddy, i mean, it is one of the things it's, it's very interesting is that we all know since where he's brought up gaza. we know that all around the world in particularly in the western world, you see these protests against the war in gaza. we're all the protests for ukraine

. i miss them. i, i see i seem to think because this was an elite project from the very, very beginning. most people they know where ukraine was, they probably still don't. okay. but this was an elite agenda. that is really not going anywhere. i mean, the least gonna stick with it. i, i'm, i'm, i'm sure of that, but never caught on in the public imagination as well. it's, it's, it's a very good point to peter because obviously, i mean, it's friends and son for a year or 2. mainly you're, you're saying the, the lack of insurance for this, the ukrainian russian conflict to us diminished friedman dislike. i think everybody's going back to their priority domestically we, we consider us doing that as well. you know, where the political agenda and even towards the preparation of the prize you the presidential election in 2024. i think people are re focusing on what's important we focusing on. obviously the border for, for the united states in europe,

throat is trying to basically tackle the items very, very southern installation which has creep all the businesses all across the european members space. and then of course we have this problem of immigration, which is a full problem, but is wrong. the address, big pull communications under a terry bull agenda that is on folding under your pin member states for the last past 2 years. i saw the crisis of you print a p. is that something that is just on the side that will keep you well because we just have too much problem about and, and it's getting very, very difficult for a government to solve the id of, you know, sending more money to ukraine. and i think there is all governments, whether it's us, whether it's the european members that were more reasonable for the us, that would probably take 20 percent of that money to send to you, cried and trying to finish the trunk sold, for example, at the border and then for europe it will be the same. we have still a lot of people that slipping the car. people don't actually need for help and supports with the winter commons. i mean these other people we need to support. how

can we help orders? when can we can even help ourselves? and that's, i think, the reason why we're right now losing interest in supporting you. right? you know, very it's, it's also interesting, larry, is that the, the, the, the thrust of this policy and ukraine was always the punish russia. and if they're not getting that, and in return is maverick russian economy is back on track. it's a, in a growing account territory. the, the rubel is fine. trade is fine. i mean, none of the things that they had predicted. so, i mean, what's the, you know, bang for the buck. i mean, how much more do you want to spend on getting 0 results all the money for the but for lockheed martin and right the on and i hosted the volume of course such as far as see if yes, if there was quite lucrative. you had shareholder meters meetings where c e o 's are citing to the shareholders of businesses. good businesses really far. and

that's the answer right to the leads of america, the millionaire. she made some money off this more. but you're also right that, uh and my colleagues there is right in saying that people are tiring of the wasted . we're looking at millions of dollars having been wasted. and in this country, we're looking at a $343536.00 trillion dollar aggregate debt and next year, a trillion dollar interest payments on that that and federal discretionary spending probably nothing but entitlements and the defense budget. there will be no money left over. so this is just, this is getting of a real problem for the same par, trying to keep its finances and order because it's been so flagrantly irresponsible with the wars over the last 20 plus years. wars. incidentally that none of what, none of which it has one effect. yeah. it is. it is. so there's laughter for the while. there's, there's no, there's no downside and failing. it's there,

larry and there's no down side. no downside whatsoever. we, we take general c failed $8910.00 times in a row, and i've got it started for example, and make them to use of service or send them to lockheed for 7 larry larry o, you probably know this number. i mean, how many generals were there in the 2nd world war, as opposed to a number of generals today? it's about 8 to one difference. the more the ways we be, please be very specific for my viewers. 8 to one in what direction we're talking about. more general for troops. uh now the in world war 2, when we had 12000000 man under arms and much more worse. and then that is in the last 5 years of the 4 star general was retiring 80 percent of them went to work in the defense complex. well i guess that's why you've been, well, it's kind of very much like a can to a politicians today, particularly in europe. you become prime minister this to go work for tony blair or

later or bill gates. okay. it seems that public service is not the highest calling for these people at what's actually a big yeah, actually i was just fine before elizabeth ones committee in the senate recently. and the writing majority member from florida. rick scott essentially said, why shouldn't these guys go out and get to make some money back when he would, but it was pointed out, she was holding a hearing based on the ethics in the defense department. and this is the right, came minority member, republican read stuff from florida saying also what they should be able to get a letter. and before we go to the break here, that's why they love nikki haley. she understands how the game works and she's very good at it. right gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine states with our to the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just

a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify all confused who really wants a better wills and is it just because it shows very few fractured images presented to this, but can you see through their illusions, going underground? can the welcome, ect. across stock, were all things are considered. i'm peter real about true mind you were discussing . you create the

okay. i also part of our conversation. we're in belgrade. we have the even gaiety is a research associate a bull grades institute of european studies. welcome to the program here. uh better late than never. um, well, i've been talking with larry and freddy about how the the ukraine project is progressing in this new year. one of the things that's very interesting also when we look at it is a and i'm full of focus very much and how it's pitch to the public where i wouldn't be surprised to see are they gonna say, well, you claim is already one. okay. well, here's the, you know, and, and so, you know, the russians have been defeated. they didn't take 80 pur, uh, they left 80 percent of ukraine unoccupied. so they, they're a winner. okay. i can see the edits already. you. if you look at some of the think tanks that are already trying to sell this to the public, go ahead. i think they are, and in a way they might be riots because for, from the standpoint on washington, this was a pre meditated war crime. because what they see is parts of ex,

soviet union and find the charter. so the big secret is that actually most of ukrainian or russian, and in a sense this is a russian against russian civil war. so that is why a washington is just fueling the fire by giving the old and some of the new weapons so that their old enemy can uh, can tire itself in, in this war. however, i think that this won't work because russia is not going to buy debates and it won't accept the so called korea scenario. the other thing is the 2nd best option of far from rational following a bar. then you know, the international corporation staking got all the loads is uh for this frozen conflicts to last for the next couple of decades. so that you have this anti rush are basically sitting next to russia and, and, and that preparing for them to,

well, you know, that i, we've heard this is like a comic strip, isn't it? okay? because they all of these things that we hear. i'm gonna go to larry right now, all these little theories that we come out. the rush is absent from the decision making process. they're, they're the object they're, they're always focused. we, they, they don't have any say, you know, larry, another, one of the trends we've seen is the ukranian ization of the process to build their own arms right now you, this is an echo of how the us tried to get out of, uh, uh, indo china you know, leave it to the locals here, though it didn't work out. obviously, it won't work out this time, but this is another. um, uh, the square foot discursive chains. they're trying to push larry, i don't, uh, i don't question that right or ash. now the reason i, i do question 3rd is the decision to invade when they did the because i think it was quite clear hardly because of rushes, establishing some sort of obedience, if you will,

within germany with regard to energy. i think it was quite clear night those days were numbered. and what 3rd ended by invading, i understand why they do not understand as motivation. i don't necessarily accept the fact that he had doing, bade but understand that my toe was going. it wouldn't of the last as another decade in my view. he solidified it pretty significantly by the invasion. i think it's still going, but it will take longer now and it will fall apart around the edges before it falls out of the center. in germany, it will be that center that takes it apart. so i don't, i don't buy the idea that the conflict can continue without some real, real, real repercussions. it needs to stop not least of which uh, not least reason of which is the same reason gods and they just stop all the killing. all the just yeah, well, have an all in all the distraction from other problems we have not least of which

is no nuclear weapons treated, rename whatsoever anymore. and, and a lot of a smaller it states, again, thinking about getting nuclear weapons. there's a lot of good development, you know, a, freddy? i just didn't. i didn't. larry's rationale is very interested in your i, i, i, i've thought about it too about the trajectory of, of nato. and this conflict is actually, you've given it a shot in the arm, i understand that, but losing against russia is also going to be very, very painful. and it's gonna be hard to reconcile. continuing it, go ahead. but it's going to be that sort so terribly difficult for the, for the size, any way it is. know we know in, in, in that sides better. i think for me the innocent in the room when we talk about changing the narrative is uh what do use use to cite them? well, they're trying to sign. i mean, we started, we have as long as we text and we end up this conflict with literally as long as they can. so clearly it is a problem. yeah. so establishing a narrative of victory based on numbers, numbers, which we have, but we have

a point of 400000, you trade in depth and discounts. they come in. we're not talking about small numbers and is all speakers i in my view, is that impossible to, to sell it. they are very difficult to sell as a victory. and the us, i think in the european tax payers are very sensitive to the, to but, and of course if you have to have the loss of territories under the bipolar through you probably uncomfortable fences or you've left with 2 studies is a victory with the promise of what tomorrow might be made off. uh, nothing is really is concrete. its and its pause. that's french people, for example, each reminder, somebody to be the polio and it was, you know, it was creating a great victory, but losing all of these all made. so you can sell that in europe. i'm not too sure about the united states. so it's proceed within the public realm, but are in front of people in the buying it. so building a narrative on that is going to be extremely, extremely difficult. and uh, i think also we can proceed and also the public is proceeding that's dividing the

administration is on tremendous pressure off to do by coal of d a. i've got histone retreats, and that's where he's bringing an important role to die because on the p or seen. and it's the message that he's going to be construct around basically does. the fits us to be some form of victory, doesn't have to make sense. it just has to be constructed. that's why. oh yeah, i mean is either the, the, the russians didn't make it to paris. they be. so, you know, ukraine, one, i mean the, it'll be something it was really like that okay. statement. but, you know, ukraine is also under the norm as amount of strain. i mean, obviously it's young men don't want to fight, obviously because of the meat grinder. but we have a collapse of the economy as well. i mean, and even civil society in order are at stake here in the, in very few people actually talk about that. go ahead stephen. exactly. i mean it, that estimate is around 30000 people legally. leave the country for goods every

month. and god knows how many man are trying to make the late red save. and you do brought up a really good point. they're leaving for good. they're not to in the people that have left, they're probably not going to come back. keep going. that's exactly exactly. and on are the thing, is that now you, great, and ministry of defense is buying 50000 women's infantry gear. which sense of loss. and it seems to me that they really don't respect life and are ready to dispense every person uh the icons even say man anymore, because now they're, they're a mobilizing everybody including people with disabilities which, which we seem uh, in the boss uh, 2 fights and 2 belong this uh for uh for a day or 2. however, i think that at some point there will be a complete collapse, a complete society will collapse and eventually population. i think that's the only

the only way out of this conflict, because otherwise it just won't end. well, you know, larry, i am we guy. steven just brought up the 50000 um, uh, unit apartments for women. and that tells you one thing, but it tells me something, no, i wonder how much each uniform cost. okay. well, you know, it was a $5000.00 per, i mean this, this whole gripped it is, is infuriating because that's how i have a centrally look at it. for people in the west powerful people. it's a griffin, they're just drawing us aside in the process. look, larry, go ahead and uh, falls church. no that's but that's a huge component of it, but we're, we're dealing in the weeds now. they're important weeds, perhaps, and also a lot of blood and those weeds, but we're looking at a situation in this country right now. where if we stay on the current course with regard to our situation and gaza and the lot in general, we probably are going to be inviting a regional war. and the red sea is a, is a,

just a tiny little part of that right now. but, and i participated in a more game series about 5 years ago at all place. it is, you us institute of peace, where we brought in everyone at the u. britain in germany, all, all the people in the world who were interested in the red sea. and there was a lot of shock in that room and even mercy car was there because they were in with the booth season or, or in with the you have any and the who is the conflict. and that is the new cocktail to strategic competition. now, and we're seeing the persian golf new, if you look at the commerce that flows through the i'd say so there are there's, there are a lot of things percolating right now, particularly for the empire, the american name. well larry, i don't know. i don't know if you notice it with john kirby and his many media appearances. i find it really quite curious when he was talking about getting that blood. why don't you get a lot of media and he really isn't ready. i, you know, but i never let me, let me bid is because i think you'll agree with me. he said,

but this, that we really, really have an interest here. we actually have a re, i mean he gave it away and said that ukraine no, we don't. okay. we have no interest in watching a jetta side. but in trade, what we really do care about that. i thought it was such a give away larry. we have 60 percent of the world commerce flows through there and diverting it the way they're having to do to a certain extent right now can get very, very expensive and raise prices all across the world. we did a simulation exercise with petroleum in beijing in 2009 and the chinese or other in a shocked when we showed them what would happen if we disturb things like insurance, ship builders and ships owners wanting to apply the season. so this is a very disruptive situation and copays, right, it will use that this is serious stuff, or is there other things or series in terms of the blood that's flowing, but not necessarily the serious in terms of the real security interesting. i size

and draw near showers, right to any says we're focusing on ukrainians into a certainly so gaza when the real threat, if there is a genuine threatened memorial state, threat to the united states has in china. and what does the ukraine war done? but my moscow and trying to almost hitting the task of the lives. so we have made a lot of errors in the past 20 years. all right. say that again. the last, where do are we get is over 40 seconds, or what do we get to see how is you can get in this calendar year ready? well, i think is that for me it's very clear that so you've trained the decision to and this conflict will come from the united states. but for me, you're trying to print as never decided anything and just conflict, a nature what and the us what, what come up with a story to tell. but what's very important, peter, is there is a truck attached to that more time he's spending less territories and less weight they're going to have. we've been just negotiations and i think that's really a to take away is to understand that the time is up to us since because russia is

in no rush. right. so that is a very key point. the point, and i'm, and that's exactly where we're going to end this program here. i want to thank my guess in the falls church build right handed mercy. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. you next time, remember, cross knuckles, the, [000:00:00;00] the, the,

the, [000:00:00;00] the, the idea of bombs, red, crescent ambulance killing at least the 6 of the crew, including a medic and a journalist that says israel intensifies the arrows price in areas and previously declared a safe zones. 3 more countries joined the list supporting the genocide case filed against as well by south africa, the international court of justice and the bangladesh government is not bothered by the us and