standard biden's, as long as we can, rhetoric doesn't change the reality on the ground. the quiet lute saying it's spread through the streets of popcorn. you're getting is capital where at least one person is reported to have lost the life of the countries police and minute fate. going stripe also have the and i mean it hits fund is really a psych incentive doesn't telling full medical workers and see patients. that's the idea of intensifies is 4 buttons of areas previously, but the safe so this is really starting come us congress, not the palestinian population and we're doing so in full compliance with international instead of 8 to 5 minutes. and that's a yahoo! a pass through to him down his reservation on garza, the arab league, and other countries back south africa's multitude. the international court of

justice states is fails, committing genocide in the enclaves on the bung with district governments at hip large over us. and you take criticism of his general election, so she testing under the full time for the the headlines box one minute past 3. i must go time this thursday. do feel free to head over to doc. com for more on any of those stories. if not, i'll be back with default and use run down in just under dollars. the hello and welcome to cross ok. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, the conflict in ukraine to move into its 3rd year during this time. much is

happened and many predictions made. western rhetoric has also changed a lot from russia is losing to ukraine, has already one and 2 biden's. as long as we can. rhetoric doesn't change the reality on the ground. the cross shocking ukraine, i'm joining you. why my guess lawrence will listen to in falls church. he is a former chief of staff to the chairman of the us going chief of staff and in mont of say, we cross through friday on tell him he is an independent journalist and a contributor at 21st century wired dot com. all right, gentlemen, cross lock rolls in effect, that means you can jump anytime you want, and i always appreciate, literally, if i can go to you 1st here as we go into the new year and the 3rd year of this conflict here, i think it's fair to say, and i'm a pretty skeptical person. i've watched a lot of your commentary. you're very skeptical as well. but of a glimmer, a sliver of realism is beginning to come into the conversation. unfortunately,

it until the centers around finance and funding this war in proxy war in ukraine. but at the same time, there's still a lot of magical thinking. what are your thoughts as the new year starts? i think the funding issue is more a congressional problem than it is a statement of, on whether or not to us still support ukraine, although i do detect attendance the of, of a fall off there. and i would say that uh, there are as many republicans as democrats, who frankly did test brushes for what reasons i'm unable to file them. but they do . and so i wouldn't discount the possibility possibility the money eventually coming towards that said, you're right about the fall off. i think biden's administration realizes that this is a losing proposition, but his focus now is entirely on winning the presidency again in 2024. and he is going to be judge justice calculus now strategic and otherwise he's going to be

judging every action on that. i think what they've decided at least to that really is the last key has last, but ukraine is one. and how do you present that? and how do you take that to negotiations? well, i think you're right. yeah. i'm actually been more fascinated with the how they spun this conflict. uh the rhetoric behind it ready. it's very interesting is that we had the last major shift was from as long as it takes us as long as we can, and that tells you a whole lot. and, and essentially you're, there's a sense here that divides administration to say, well, we did what we could do. now this is a hot potato and they're throwing it to congress as well. i absolutely say, i think this does, this is a situation that's really big. and follow the formal questionnaire as we speak. and are we seeing this a, this a scenario on folding, which doesn't make any sense? and as my colleague decides, you know, it doesn't make

a lot of science at this moment because the amounts of money that has been thrown, not only to words israel, but also towards the ukraine, is starting to history very that came to buying and is breaking the bank, which means that the minister lensky is now and has by now realize that he's no longer in the front of the q i. these basically has to wait in line. and i think for me, what's we, the most striking is the, or, of course, the new speaker house mike johnson on dine loyalty to israel. it's become very clear to me to jefferson is no longer a priority for the house republicans. and so we have to draw lessons as well as from the previous because my call to you as well, which was a big supporter of you trying more efforts, which is probably part of the reason why it was likely hosted in the 1st place. but for those that are flayed attention, peter, we can see that in 2024, many walks you know, and doesn't matter. and which bands that they all suit things,

they wouldn't be getting more money, which is broader, ironic sense that the, the leadership should was about reducing the office. he was spending in the 1st name span. so there's a lot of things that really don't make any sense at the moment on what we're saying . and i think it's, it's really going to affect the bottom line and the outcome of these conflicts. well, i'm not really sure. let me, let me go back to you. i mean, video, the only thing that congress actually really does when you think about it is spend money or maybe waste money. but i think it's, you know, what are we getting for this money here? because russia, it should have been bankrupt by now. crimea should be packed in ukrainian hands. i mean, i could go on and on. i mean, it's fine. does, you know, so we, uh, a bill of goods. so what do we actually getting for? i mean, we'll spend the money, but you know, where's the victory parade? and i think that's one of the problems that there, it's a problem of selling it also. larry, absolutely true. so i will say that the american people have not been present in

this debate really not significantly. and there are reasons for that. but i sense that there are increasingly worried about what's happening, particularly in gaza. and just to show how gaza impacted ukraine. just look at the 155 or 10 worry rounds. we were sending hundreds of them thousands of them to ukraine from our reserve stocks in israel. that got stopped really quickly. so this new conflict and gaza is not only dealing people away from bod. it's impacting the entire country in terms of and i've, i didn't think in my lifetime, i would say this. yeah. in terms of the american people support for israel. it is falling off dramatically even amongst jewish americans, particularly among a lot of jewish americans. i can't tell you both how many of the regular guests on this program who happened to be a jewish from american and europe clamoring,

you know, filling up my inbox. they want to talk about this because they're so infuriating. and of course, is something i talk about every week, but to stay with your brain here friday. i mean, it is one of the things it's, it's very interesting is that we all know since where he's brought up because we know that all around the world in particularly in the western world, you see these protests against the war in gaza. we're all the protests for ukraine . i miss them. i, i see i seem to think because this was an elite project from the very, very beginning. most people didn't know where ukraine was, they probably still don't. okay. but this was an elite agenda that is really not going anywhere. i mean, the least gonna stick with it. i, i'm, i'm, i'm sure of that, but never caught on the public imagination as well. it's it's, it's a very good point to peter because obviously, i mean, it's friends and son for year. mainly you, you're saying the,

the lack of insurance for the ukrainian russian conflict to us diminished friedman dislike. i think everybody's going back today, their priority domestically we, we consider us doing that as well. you know, where the political agenda and even towards the preparation of the price of the presidential election in 2024. i think people are re focusing on what's important we focusing on obviously the border for it for the united states in europe, the roads trying to basically tackle the very, very southern installation which has crippled the businesses all across the european members space. and then of course we have these problem of immigration, which is a full problem, but is wrong. the address, big poll communications and a terry bull agenda that is on folding under your pin meadows page to the last past 2 years. i saw the crises of you print a p, is that something that is just on the side, the road, if you will, because we just have too much problem about and, and it's getting very,

very difficult for a government to solve the id of, you know, sending more money to ukraine, i think there is all governments, whether it's us, what is the european members that were more reasonable for the us that would probably take 20 percent of that money to send to you crying and trying to finish the trunk sold, for example, at the border and then for europe it will be the same. we have still a lot of people, the slipping because people don't actually need for help and supports with the winter commons. i mean, these other people we need to support, how can we help orders when can we can even help ourselves. and that's, i think, the reason why we're right now losing interest and supporting you. right. you know, very it's, it's also interesting, larry, is that the, the, the, the thrust of this policy and ukraine was always the punish russia. and if, if they're not getting that and in return is maverick russian economy is back on track. it's a, in a growing count territory. the, the rubel is fine. trade is fine. i mean,

none of the things that they had predicted. so, i mean, what's the, you know, bang for the buck. i mean, how much more do you want to spend on getting 0 results while the main for the but for lockheed martin and right the on and i hope to the volume of course such as far as see of course, if there was quite lucrative you had shareholder meters meetings were c, e o. 's are starting to the shareholders. a business is good businesses, road farm. and that's the answer right? the, the lead. so america, the millionaire, she made some money off this more. but you're also right that, uh, and my colleague there is right in saying that people are tired of the wasted. we're looking at millions of dollars having been wasted. and in this country, we're looking at a $343536.00 trillion dollar aggregate debt and next year, a trillion dollar interest payments on that that and federal discretionary spending probably nothing but entitlements in the defense budget. there will be no money

left over. so this is just, this is getting of a real problem for this and par, trying to keep its finances and order because it's been so flagrantly irresponsible with the wars over the last 20 plus years. wars. incidentally that none of what, none of which it has one effect. yeah. it is. it is a disaster for the well there's, there's a there, there's no downside. and failing is there, larry, there's no down side. no, no downside whatsoever. we, we take general c failed 8910 times in a row, and ask on his time for example, and make them to use of service or send them to lockheed for 7 larry larry o, you probably know this number. i mean, how many generals were there in the 2nd world war, as opposed to a number of generals today? it's about 8 to one difference. the more all the ways be be, please be very specific for my viewers. $8.00 to $1.00 in what direction we're talking about more general's per troops. uh now the more award to when we had

$12000000.00 man under arms and much more worse. and then that is in the last 5 years of the 4 star general was retiring 80 percent of them went to work in the defense complex. well i guess that's why you get, well, it's kind of very much like a can to a politicians today, particularly in europe. you become prime minister this to go work for tony blair or later or bill gates. okay. it seems that public service is not the highest calling for these people at what's actually a big yeah, actually i was just fine before elizabeth ones committee in the senate recently. and the writing majority member from florida. rick scott essentially said, why shouldn't these guys go out and get to make some money back when he would, but it was pointed out she was holding a hearing based on the ethics in the defense department. and this is the right,

came minority member republican read scott from florida saying also what they should be able to get a letter. and before we go to the break here, that's why they love nikki haley. she understands how the game works and she's very good at it. right gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine states with our team, the is already those lines. as can be started by line, please can be satisfied for the importance of we can never be kind of a station, so that transparency is extraordinary. john mystic patrice then just

succeeded in finding documents that existed in making them available to the was public. i mean, what could be more moving box by publishing information and sharing information with the public. he was exercising the right to free speech. he did so in the public interest lies tends to me, engulfing endlessly to relate continuously. and i know why advice may assume that no one who is the guy that illegal anymore wisely bought the adjustments for to be on box weighing a 175 used to go through the sentence. are we going to let that stay the welcome back across stock? were all things are considered? i'm futile about you mind you were discussing. you create

the ok. i also part of our conversation we in belgrade, we have the even gaiety as a research associate. a bill grades institute of european studies. welcome to the program here. uh better late than never. um, well i've been talking with larry and freddy about how the the ukraine project is progressing in this new year. one of the things that's very interesting also when we look at it, is that, and i'm full of focus very much and how it's pitched to the public where i wouldn't be surprised to see are they gonna say, well, you claim is already one. okay. you know, and, and so, you know, of the russians have been defeated. they didn't take 80 pur, uh, they left 80 percent of ukraine unoccupied. so they, they're a winner. okay. i can see the edits already. you. if you look at some of the think tanks are already trying to sell this to the public, go ahead. i think they are, and in a way they might be riots because for, from the standpoint on washington,

this was a pre meditated war crime. because uh, what they see is parts of ex, soviet union and finding your charter. so the big secret is that actually most of ukrainian or russian, and in a sense this is a russian against russian civil war. so that is why a washington is just fueling the fire by giving the old and some of the new weapons so that their old enemy can uh, can tire itself in, in this war. however, i think that this won't work because russia is not going to buy debate and it won't accept the so called korea scenario. i think is the 2nd best option apart from rational following a bar. then you know, the international corporation staking got all the loads is uh for this frozen conflicts to last for the next couple of decades. so that you have this anti rush

are basically sitting next to russia and, and, and preparing for them to well, you know. 6 we've heard this is like a comic strip, isn't it? okay? because they all of these things that we hear. i'm going to go to larry right now. all these little theories that we come out, the rush is absent from the decision making process. they're, they're the object they're, they're always focused. we, they, they don't have any say it will, larry another, one of the trends we've seen is the, you cleaning ization of the process to build their own arms right now. you know, this is an echo of how the us tried to get out of, uh, uh, indo china, you know, leave it to the locals here though it didn't work out. obviously, it won't work out this time. but this is another, um, uh, the square foot discursive chains. they're trying to push larry, i don't, uh, i don't question that, right. or actually now the reason i, i do question through this decision to invade, when they did though, because i think it was quite clear arlay because of rushes,

establishing some sort of obedience, if you will, within germany with regard to energy. i think it was quite clear night those days were numbered and what food and dated by invading. i understand why they do not understand as motivation. i don't necessarily accept the fact that he had doing bade but understand it. may tell was going. it wouldn't have the last, there's another decade in my view. t solidified it pretty significantly by the invasion. i think it's still going, but it will take longer now and it will fall apart around the edges before it falls out of the center. and germany will be that center that takes of the bar. so i don't, i don't, by the idea that the conflict can continue without some real, real, real repercussions. it needs to stop not least of which uh, not least reason of which is the same reason gods and they just stop all the

killing. all the just yeah, well, have an all in all the distraction from other problems we have not least of which is no nuclear weapons treaty regime whatsoever anymore. and, and a lot of a smaller it states, again, thinking about getting nuclear weapons. there's a lot of good development, you know, it's friday it, since i can. larry's rationale is very interesting or i, i, i, i've thought about it too about the trajectory of, of nato. and this conflict is actually given in a shot in the arm. i understand that, but losing against russia is also going to be very, very painful, and it's gonna be hard to reconcile. continuing it, go ahead. but it's going to be that sort so terribly difficult for them for the size anyway. it is no, we 9 in, in that size, but i think for me, the innocent in the room when we talk about changing the narrative is uh, what do use use to cite them? well, there are countries saying, i mean, we started, we have as long as it takes and we end up this conflict with literally as long as

they can. so clearly it is a problem. yeah. so establishing a narrative of victory based on numbers, numbers which we have, but we have a point of 400000. you trading that in this conflict. i mean, we're not talking about small numbers and it's all peters. i in my view, is that impossible to, to sell it. they are very difficult to sell as a big 3. and the us, i think, can be your pin tax payers are very sensitive to the, to box. and of course, if you add to that, the loss of the territories and to get back all of the ukraine, you come to offenses. oh you've like we have to sad easy is a victory with the promise of what tomorrow might be made off. nothing is really is concrete. and as far as, as french people, for example, each we might have some little bit of napoleon was, you know, was creating a great victory, but losing off of these. all right, so you go so that in europe, i'm not too sure about the united space, so it's proceed within the public realm,

but are in french, people are not buying it. so building a narrative on that is going to be extremely, extremely difficult. and uh, i think whole so we can proceed and also the public is proceeding that's divided administration is on tremendous pressure off to do by cool of the i've got missed the retreats and that's what he's bringing an important role to diet because on the p, all seeing and it's the message that he's going to be construct around, basically does the feed us to be some form of victory, doesn't have to make sense. it just has to be constructed. that's why. well, yeah, i mean, is either the, the, the russians didn't make it to paris. they, we, so, you know, ukraine one, i mean, the, it'll be something, it was silly like that. okay. steven, but, you know, ukraine is also under the norm as amount of strain. i mean, obviously it's young men don't want to fight, obviously because of the meat grinder, but we have a collapse of the economy as well. i mean, and even civil society in order are at stake here in the, in very few people actually talk about that. go ahead stephen. exactly. i mean,

uh it, that estimate is that around 30000 people uh, illegally leave the country for good every month. and uh, god knows how many man are trying to make the late red saving. you do brought up a really good point. they're leaving for good. they're not in the people that have left, they're probably not going to come back, keep going. actually. exactly and on are the thing, is that now you, great and ministry of defense is buying 50000 women's infantry gear which says a lot. and it seems to me that they really don't respect life and are ready to dispense every person uh, the accounting and say, man anymore, because now they're, they're a mobilizing everybody including people with disabilities which, which we seem uh, in the boss uh, 2 fights and 2 prong, this uh for uh for

a day or 2. however, i think that at some point there will be a complete collapse, a complete for size will collapse and eventually population. and i think that's the only, uh, the only way out of this conflict because otherwise it just won't end. well, you know, larry, i'm with guy. it's even just brought up to $50000.00 um, uh, uniforms for women. and that tells you one thing, but it tells me something, no, i wonder how much each uniform cost. okay. well, you know what, a $5000.00 per, i mean this, this whole gripped it is, is infuriating because that's how i have essentially looked at it for people in the west, powerful people. it's a griffin and they're destroying a society in the process. look, larry, go ahead and uh, falls church. no, it's, but that's a huge component of it, but we're, we're dealing in the weeds now. they're important weeds perhaps, and there's a lot of blood in those weeds, but we're looking at a situation in this country right now. where if we stay on the current course with

regard to our situation and gauze and the locked in general, we probably are going to be inviting a regional war. and the red sea is a, is a, just a tiny little part of that right now. but i participated in a more game series about 5 years ago, and it all places you us institute of peace, where we brought in everyone at the u. britain in germany, all, all the people in the world who were interested in the red sea. and there was a lot of shock in that room, even mercy car was there because they were in with the season or, or in with the you have any and the who is the conflict. and that is the new cocktail to strategic competition. now, and we're seeing the persian golf new, if you look at the commerce that flows through there, it's a so there are there's, there are a lot of things percolating right now, particularly for the empire, the american name. well, hey larry, i don't know. i don't know if you noticed it with john kirby and his many media

appearances. i find it really quite curious when he was talking about getting that play. why don't you get a lot of media and he really is ready. all right, you know, but i never let me leave it is because i think you'll agree with me. he said, but this, that we really, really have an interest here. we actually have a root hobby who gave it away and said that ukraine no, we don't. okay. we have no interest in watching a jetta side, but in trade, what we really do care about that. i thought it was such a give away larry. we have 60 percent of the world commerce flows through there and, and diverting it the way they're having to do to a certain extent right now can get very, very expensive and raise prices all across the world. we did a simulation exercise with petroleum in beijing in 2009 and the chinese or other and a shocked when we showed them what would happen if we disturb things like insurance . uh, ship builders and ships owners wanting to apply the season. so this is a very disruptive situation, and kirby's right,

it will use that this is serious stuff. or is there other things or series in terms of the blood that's following, but not necessarily the serious in terms of the realtor courtesy interesting. i say and draw nearer chalmers, right to any, says we're focusing on ukrainians and to certainly so gaza when the real threat, if there is a genuine threat and the world state threat to the united states has in china. and what does the ukraine war done? but my moscow and china almost in the tacit alliance. so we have made a lot of errors in the past 20 years. all right, friday and again, the last, where do are we get is, are 40 seconds or what do we get to see? how is you can get in this calendar year ready? the well, i think is that for me it's very clear that so you've trained the decision to have this conflict will come from the united states. but for me, you're trying, you print as never decided anything. and just conflict a nature way and, and do us what, what come up with a story to tell. but what's very important, peter, is there is a truck attached to that more time. he's spending less territories and less weight

. they're going to have within this negotiations, and i think that's really the take away is to understand that the time is up to us . since because russia is in no rush rush. all right, that is a very key point. the point, and i'm, and that's exactly where we're going to end this program here. i want to thank my guess in the falls church bells right handed mercy. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. you next time, remember cross knuckles the, [000:00:00;00] the,

by the early 1950. can you became one of the centers of resistance to colonialism in africa. the british invaders infringed on the most basic rights of the local population. great britain pursued the policy of squeezing out the local population from their indigenous lands. the best airable areas were given to white farmers, dooming canyon stepfather, d, and hunger. this caused the sharp protest of the peasants and led to the emerging of the mile mile movement. which started the fight against the invaders. the rebels skulled themselves canyon land and freedom army disappeared. the leader of the movement would be anti colonial. active as jo, mo kenyata, the freedom fighters used guerrilla tactics and attacked individual units of the greatest troops. the latter responded with massive air rays and artillery effects. when suppressing the uprise of london relied on maximum cruelty over $50000.00 canyons were killed. about 300000 people were thrown into abrasions and concentration camps,

where tortures in no way inferior in girls. each of the nazis was widely practiced . the veracity of the colonial list only led the temporary success. in 1963, the british empire had to recognize the independence of gain. yeah. however, the colonial regime left behind a trail of blood and wounds that canyon nation has not recovered from on sale. now, the for your courage and leadership and tenacity in journalism and published dixon victoria's logic. and it just, this depends on it the