we are talking here on the sidelines of the, of all day, 4 of which the sierra care is the title fair multiple. let's see how to insure a security and development for all. and i want to start by asking whether you believe it's even possible to insure security and development for all and do it in a fair manner. well, i think it's something that we have to strive for, for sure. in venezuela's own history, you know, we are, we are a revolution that uh, inspired by c mobile dealer or liberator, who spoke about the librium of the universe as a concept back in the 1870. he saw the, the tensions between the different poles that were rising. and that's how we have to establish some sort of equity in room balance so that we can assure that everyone's interest was consider. and i think this is the point we're reaching now . and in this point in history where we can no longer just sustain a world view, we're only the interest. so one country is accepted. but we have to make sure that

we cater to to the interest of, of different peoples. because that model of the single country is not enough to guarantee for the rest of humanity. safe planet, a safe safety from health or the risk of the seas. so so, so the, there's a need for us to build something different. i think it is achievable, and i think it's something that we have to promote. but even if i put that one country um beyond the breakfast for a for a moment, we'll start from different bases and doubts with different for source, assembled with different challenges. how would you even assess the fairness of the framework if we are all moving in different faces and sometimes in different directions? well, i think that's where the art of diplomacy comes in and the importance of dialogue and, and how we have to build relations with countries among countries are relations field besides the, on the look,

we have to try to understand each others. there's different cultures of diversity president will travis spoke of to republic priority, meaning that uh, not only do we have to have different polls, but the, these that we have to accept the diversity in each fall so they can co exist. so i think it's important that we, we do that effort of, of dialoguing and trying to understand each other, see where our interests can meet. because everybody's obviously has different interests. everybody has different needs. well, there's going to be a point where we can make them meet and, and work together for the best of all. he meant speaking about dialogue. last here they've all day plan the recession. you asked the president of this country, of alignment, put into whether anything should be done to support this process of shaping multiple leverage. and his answer was essentially no, you know, it's a, it's a natural development. and besides, the west is already doing everything necessary to bring multiple air. it's about. do you agree with him that no specific measures a need to, to uh,

protect or support this process? well, i think it's important to like, he mentioned that this is something that is taking place now, and perhaps we will find out that along the way, for example, with the emergence of, of bricks. now as a such a strong platform that we may have to do some things to help it along the way and contribute to, to that building. i think it's important that we, we strengthen those processes because that's where we can really see a new type of arrangement where people can participate in different countries. have different types of participation. and we can overcome a stomach problems that we've had for example, that in, in countries in, in, in the south and the global south or even development seem another way of cooperation for development that doesn't in both of you of one country of another. but actually, it's a, some of necessities and, and opportunities well getting into an argument. so there's bladder report,

a nice thing. sometimes it's very difficult to allow of these lab be a pro se. and not only because your opponents are piling economic sanctions on to a. but also because i think they're now over stepping their own values in their own last to punish countries like ours. for example, i don't know if you've heard that, but the ear has recently introduced the master that would allow its officials, customs, officials to st. uh, russian nationals on their personal belongings like phones, like even toiletries. and that is coming from countries that i still believe to be the champions of personal freedoms and privacy. i wonder if we have come to a point when we have to be concerned about the unraveling of the west because of the western sanctions. well, i think that's something that we're seeing a part of the result of these sanctions. and these policies is that is

a promotion of fate in a way o all, or is it. and then only happens to russians with a, in this case that you mentioned. but you seem to happen, for example, in, in, with less than american migrants in, in, in united states for, you know, there's the, every time you have, you, they place an aggression on the other. it's not only the, the law is not only the section itself, but it's also accompanied by a message of distancing themselves from the other and generating fee or hate. we have to distance ourselves from, from this policy, we have to stop these processes throughout the world. we're seeing this re emergence in both in, in europe hard also in america, of the fastest tendencies that are, use the use hate in order to promote their policy. so it is part of this process they use hate of to promote their the policies, but they're also sort of

a very successful in projecting it out to other countries. they do not see that as hate. in fact they, they seem to be very self righteous. what could possibly uh, bring it to their attention that they're doing the exact same things that they are accusing that adam is off. the problem is that i think it will get to a point that these measures of a take and that they promote, heard them as well. they're going to realize that their actions also have consequences. and they are already those in and academic terms. and we're seeing, for example, the gas prices being probably the highest that they've been in the last few months in the united states and hardly is due because the, the way the essential to impact uh, oil markets, throughout the world. if of countries like when us, when we run, for example, they didn't have the sanctions place on them, there could be different a rush of rush efforts for that fact. yes, they could be

a very different consequences or the very different i'm energy supply and, and the effects on the us people will be quite different, but also is in other issues like even uh, with migration itself and, and part of countries that are under economic distress. because of, of sanctions. well, one of the results sometimes tends to be migration and, and, and this, the united states was also feeling a so there is a feeding loop whether they like it or not. but for the time being, they still prefer not to notice it. yes. and in a way is it is part of the, you know, the, they're part of the problem the, the, they believe that their actions don't have consequences, but they do now. uh, the west is using not only direct sanctions against countries like rational men as well, but also secondary sanctions to penalize those who are willing to do business with the quote unquote negates. and that's could be seen as a direct uh tool against uh,

multiple r a t. uh, you know, if we understand multiple our, it is a space when nations can relate to each other on their own terms, do things sooner or later. multiple letters who really require some sort of formal arrangement or protection against western pressure. well, what we really mean already exists, which is the principles in, in, in trying to know you and charter, the end of practice. oh, but, but, but there are there and, and you know, at one point in time, countries to, to become members of the u. n. the, they signed the, the charter, they agreed to be part of it. and what we need to do is to rescue those, those ideals, and those principles and, and stress the necessity of, of respecting them the, the, the idea, the us, for example, coming both these unilateral masters is completely a violation of, of international law. so we have to do is, uh, we don't have to do the same,

we have to defend and show that we respect international law that then we want a system where multiple everything can fly with. but you know, countries can thrive because there's a minimal respect for each other's interest and, well, mean, i don't know if you would agree with that. but what i find very interesting about our times is that, you know, there's principles that have been and try and in the year and charter for the state is it now makes sort of sense to uphold them because it's in your own benefit. and we see some of the us nominal allies like saudi arabia, like united air amyris becoming members of briggs because they, they funded eat not only uh who, the moral terms, it's in that practical developmental interest. so do you think there's something new about the way countries relate to those values and trying them to you and charge them? well, we're definitely a moment where we realize of the relations have to be different. uh

because again, the, the, the system though that was prevailing uh that was trying to be, impose on the rest of us doesn't have the solutions to our problems. i think what countries are doing or realizing that they have to abide or follow those, those principles that we will share and, and doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to subject ourselves to a country. it means that we have to build spaces where we can dialogue and contribute and cooperate, which is very important. so we, we have to engage in el center relationship rather than incursion. now speaking about when is all of your country has been under western sanctions for, for, for very long time as has iran, cuba, some other nations. but it hasn't trouble with these kind of rapid changes within the international economic and political system that we have observed. recently, and i wonder if you see western sanctions against russia as a standout case,

or whether it's simply the cumulative effect of all those years of sanctions against various countries. that is influencing this for bringing about this rapid change within the international system. well, it also has to do also with the size of countries on the economies, obviously garages of much larger country and the impact that these measures may have on, on, on the world. because of how they affect russia is different from how he may impact smaller countries. but the truth is that about 30 percent of the world is right now, and the some sort of unilateral course of measure from the united states and pressing glass mode has been very open and in denouncing this, these actions and how we have to find new uh new solutions to and the dependency that we have, for example, on the dollar or that we have on, on, on this capable the united states of america and financial institutions. all

american labs, financial institutions will reset those to be international. that's why that's why i presume a little said in, in, in the recent his message to the recent bricks meeting and south africa of the, the importance that it was to, to find new alternatives to find an architecture for new financial model. to think about the, the organization and see how we can have another organization of the world where we're not sort of depending on the united states as a well mr. carlos, we have to take a very short break, rest still dependent on the, on our schedule. but we will be back in just a few moments state you in the

hello and welcome defrost of full force. here we discussed some real name, the since 2016. numerous monuments to soviet soldiers in poland, ukraine and the baltic states have been destroyed or vandalized fish, their stuff by pharmacy. certainly within your muscle or even some others could ask if i really sold that to produce much them at the edge. it's especially almost between the police government denies the rule of soviet so just in the victory of

a non system, and is it raising historical memories of world war 2? is the 40 piece from your store. although it did seem the non supervisor names of trustees would remain, thinks in people's consciousness forever. but as long as russell phobia is profitable and brings dividends, you are willing to have a to rewrite the cost. yes. to, to take up the how provides i need the seats in the car box. do i need to leave the welcome back to me is a part of all the carlos minutes l as deputy minister for for the various for north america. but to call us before the break, we mention sanctions that the united states maintain against your country for many

years. and i know for a fact that the new sale and the reigning experience has been studied in russia extensively to understand what to do and what perhaps not to do when dealing with these direct point in measures against my country. i wonder if oven is l. a has learned anything new or got any new ideas from the russian experience? well, i think it's funny because when will you? uh, i remember one time speaking uh uh, when the sanctions started um under the trump administration, i spoke to uh a russian diplomats boy encounter with an in in washington. and the 1st thing he told me was, well, you have to learn to live with sanctions. and then my ways to, you know, part of what we have seen from the experiences of russia, but also the ron of cuba for many years is that, you know, the point of, of was, of the sanction policy from the united states is to reduce regina change and

produce all these alterations of our reality, which are not in tune with the needs and the wants of the, of our peoples. so we have to learn to, to, even though we have these aggressions how to make our, our own solutions and how to move forward the experience from russia. now, it will, of course, is also interesting for us as all the other ones. and i think what, what we have learned is that nobody's going to give us anything for free. we have to, well, whatever we're gonna do for our future and will however, we're gonna develop our country. we have to do it by this end, that it ourselves by organizing our people's and so i think that that, that is the best lesson that we can learn overall. it's interesting you say that because uh, you know, a substantial part of those sanctions were brought about after the elections of 2018 and next year you're facing another presidential vote. do you expect

any american interference, or do you think the americans wouldn't be too preoccupied with that on domestic political strife? well, i think the, if we look at history, you know, this year will be, that's a 100 and over 3 of the monroe doctrine, which is the thing that i'm going to celebrate. well here's, here's, here's the thing is i, what we seen is a constant intervention in the continent. uh, you know, in different, different types of forms from cause to sanctions, to a invasion is everything. but so, so the tendency is that they will always try to find a way to, um, you know, see in gauging in, in our processes in the military and in their favor we, i think we're the winner. so let people know what the reality are. you know, i, i think we have face, so these aggressive, so these are problems. and we have had a leadership setting leadership on their pressing model that has led the country

out of that, you know, that aggression, we have been able to grow in the last year that and you know, which is something that nobody was been, will, was able to predict uh you know, in just a couple years earlier because they thought that everything would collapse and we have shown that, you know, we are capable of, of achieving a different uh, different outcome. so i think the minnesota people know that, you know, they, they have to keep on advancing in their democratic process in the deepening a revolutionary process. and i think that will be the outcome regardless of what our intervention it takes place. the venezuela is, is an emergency and you know, we will have elections and different forces with metro themselves. but i think the sort of people know where the horizon is thinking about different forces. one voice mail from the west at that time the recognized as the inter and present defend itself that is barely seen or mentioned anymore. how do use is that,

how do you assess his political fortunes? well, i think it was, uh well, she left the countries not even a political figure of any importance right now in venezuela. and i think many countries now realize that it was uh, you know, ridiculous to have a support of the adventure of trying to, to recognize the government lives that didn't exist. and you will have, not only you didn't have a legal basis, but also didn't have any popular support. i mean, nobody though that was for trade us and neither could simply leave the country and to be no effects whatsoever. you can, you can speak and see how it is when it said was overcome that, that chapter i think, you know, when we're looking forward, we're looking ahead and again, for some of the has shown us a way, thoughts, uh, growth towards the improvement of,

of services for the event as well and people, i think that's the path we're on and that's important. but as i said, you're looking forward to that. i also want to ask you to look sideways a little bit because i'm interested in your opinion about the american election. so which are also coming up next year. and i think what's different than we've talked about that a little bit already is that the station for the americans themselves is different there. and they have never been so polarized as they are right now. and i wonder if, if you think that the outcome of the next year, well, it's bill have any bearing on how the multiple r a t shaping or how the vamps on the a continental shaping out. well, i think 1st of all, i want to say, you know, we are respectful of the sovereignty of the people's united states. so whatever the session they make, of course it, we respect and, and, and that's what we want them to do in, in our. but let's, as me, the choice is quite unprecedented, then it's very, i mean, the,

perhaps not very inspiring, even for the americans themselves. and judging from the polls what, well there's, there's many problems in u. s. society. now the, they're facing because of the, their model is again, it's not able to fulfill the expectations of people you have seen growth in, in, in, in homeless mass us and growth in poverty. so there's a lot of traffic asians on the people united states. so then they need to find the a way to, to vote for, you know, solving their own problems and now trying to police the world are trying to engage in our elections. i think i hope that whatever comes as a result is another, i renewed opportunity to engage with united states diplomatically and on equal terms. i mean, you know, maybe maybe a high bar to said, but i think it is important that we remember we've always been willing to engage with united states diplomatically. as long as there's

a relationship with mutual respect, when you don't have them with the respect and then all these other informations comes about. so my hopes that lease or that whatever outcome of this is something that can lead to a respectful relationship. now one of those issues polarizing years, domestic politics is immigration and it's no secret that ben is. alan may migration to the united states is linked perhaps directly to the sanctions policy. and i think this is one of the very, very few ways that americans can directly experience the consequences of the actions. but i wonder if migration is still big enough of a challenge to influence the american approach, either to sanctions or to your own country for their own sake. well, the problem is, where we seeing the draw history in, in us politics, is that sometimes, whenever the selection moments come and there's always a for in the adversary of some sort. and you know, either is it could be one day time when they rush. so any other country,

or it could be in the shape of migrants from anywhere in latin america. this in this case, because of the narrative, they have a negative narrative against the wind as well. you know, they're focusing on minnesota migrants, but, you know, been sort of not even the, the main source of migrants in the united states right now. in any case, a lot of that migration historically, in our region has that to do with the internet in some of the united states. now it sanctions, but before you know, the, the, the cools, the, the sabotage to democratic government. so the just sitting aligned to their purposes that lets for people to seek uh, solutions and to seek them a north because at the end of the day you effect the economies in a way that people, you know, they, they want to look fuller, other economic possibilities so it's is, is a moment where there's a, there must be a lot of reflection on the side of the you, the people for us to see where the real problems are, where the real,

where they should focus their energies. it's not necessarily foreign threats. it's, it's the way it's functioning inside that they need to deal with. i don't know, she would agree with that, but i think it is this perception of invincibility and that for decades about the american political class, to rooted with impunity and to sort of believe that that consequence that actions don't have consequences. and if you look close, the whole concept of american exceptionalism is ultimately rooted in this idea that they are somehow above and beyond which abuse. and my question to you is, what do you think me persuading the american people but the american, the lee is that they're humans like anyone else. and therefore, they shouldn't be constrain south, constrained by some notion of common responsibility or at least responsibility before that own people. i think their model, the current model has shown, is not sustainable. i think you can,

obviously it's not going to be sustainable in the long run. the again, the, the challenges are facing within the country. the goals are poverty, the now the, you know, the growth of drug use. so which has now become one of the main, or the primary costs of, of the thing you use in the. and i say show that there's something essentially wrong with the system that there. and that exceptionalism is not going to be the answer, i think. and also, well, you know, i use, you mentioned the leads for the, the fact that the people are realizing this. i think it's important because, you know, there is the giving, say, this even a massive and imperialist movement. the we don't see in the media but, but the, that it does live in the united states and doesn't, once the country to and it's government to abilities actions. and i think that's growing every day. and, you know, sometime is going to reach those decision makers. there's gotta be new generations of, of, uh,

lawmakers and to come in to us politics that the focus on real people's problems that has to happen. you come from a country with the stronger revolutionary tradition, but i think that comes a point for any country when a revolution has to give way to do engine for, i mean revolutionary smoking, said no to now if you actually need to provide for your people and it's very hard and often times unimed on under appreciated the work of governance. i sometimes wonder if the americans of stock and this revolutionary phase of thinking of themselves as sort of the so the shining seat here on the hill without even caring off for, you know, working the fields or, you know, the roads inside the, inside the hill. well, i think there has to be a change the of that exception list went out at the but, but i think again the, the problems are they, they're going to encounter learning counseling right now in the streets or it's was going to be seeing that change will come because the,

the american system as it exists today does not allow for, in my view, it's nice for a free and comprehensive expression of political will because a choice between the 5 and then trump is with all due respect to the americans as a very poor and limited choice. well, those other movements that i think are important within uh, you know, local, uh, there's gotta be a gradual empowerment people. and this site is going to start is already started and, and, and you know, local levels to see different a different class. so of politicians in, in city councils and other places that are contesting some of these uh, visual policies that come from exceptionalism. it's a process and maybe maybe we're not going to see it next year or, or, you know, maybe in 1020 years it's, you know, sometimes these changes take a long time. but you can see that there's something growing and, and that is that it has to come out because that's the statement,

the way they're doing it is not sustainable. well, uh, on this note mr. call us, we have to leave it there. but thank you very much. for being with us. my pleasure . thank you very much. and thank you for watching hope to hear again and was a part of the

the motor public for you. still nonsense. he's got his new mice. so you are using the whites and what i showed him are you and somebody yeah, yeah. the exposure also no, i don't mind that. yeah. um, but in this tool disposal setting this to me, it is of savings and you have someone give it to see those who managed to free continue the work of undermining russia. nobody needs team is opening offices in the us. those look similar to this. i was so sorry about seeing you on a fully up for an officer for the other thing is that sam got the new guy up by the to the shots, but i want to shift. so the democrats, you obviously deal example because i give the rest of that completely. gotcha. the,

the people that reported killed and there recently is really a tag called the central guys us 30 of the all blocks a desktop in the process of a scene and read it needs a protein 24000 the astonishing videos from around the world as millions dad and so the diety was qualified, he has been 100 day, spends the complex you're brought to between ease rather than m. us at china denounces the us for meddling in its domestic affairs and beds out the washington phrase. the ones knew the elected regional lead to seeking independence from being the.