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the, [000:00:00;00] the, the entire international community has been focused on the war in palestine since it began on october 7th, while no civilized person supports terrorism, including acts of wanton violence against civilians. israel's response has been a mockery of international law in respect to human rights. tens of thousands of palestinians have been killed since the start of the conflict with 90 percent of them being civilians. and many more tens of thousands have been injured. there is not a single, fully functioning hospital in garza and the world food program says that half of all palestinians face start ation on a scale not seen in decades. there are currently between 1200000 and 2000000 palestinian refugees on the border with egypt. the largest movement of refugees

since the 2nd world war. with that said, these rarely government says that it will continue the war for months to come. and it's doing so with a full throated support of the united states. i'm john kerry onto welcome to the whistle blowers the. 2 2 more as always, awful, it's rarely justifiable either morally or legally. and even when governments attempt to justify it, they are rarely convincing. there is no excuse, for example, when a drone blows up a family or kills journalists or bombs a wedding. there is no excuse when in a sense of. busy beings are sheldon to oblivion or when rockets land on a church, a mosque or a hospital where civilians have taken refuge. there's no excuse when armies occupied villages,

forcing people out of their homes. and if they're lucky into refugee camps, whoever 1st said that war is hell. certainly knew what he was talking about. and technological advances don't make more any nicer. they just make a deadlier. the rest of us rely on truth tellers and journalists to tell us what's happening on the ground in more time. we only learn the truth about cambodia. for example, when john pills, your told us about it. we only learned what was really happening in vietnam, thanks to daniel ellsberg and sy hersh. and we're now learning truths from guys. thanks to our next guest. we're very happy to have chris hedges with us today. chris is a pulitzer prize winning journalist who was a foreign correspondent for 15 years from the new york times. he's an arabic speaker who served as the middle east, bureau chief and leader as the bulk and bureau chief for the paper during the war in the former yugoslavia. he previously worked overseas in central america for the christian science monitor and p r and the dallas morning news. he's the host of the show, the chris hedges report,

which is broadcast on the real news. you can also find his work at chris hedges dot sub stack dot com. chris, thanks so much for joining us. good to have the extra. thank you, chris. you've spent 7 years reporting from the middle east, including gaza. you have a deep understanding of the issues that have shaped the region and you recently attempted to reach of the border that divides guys from egypt with other international journalists to protest israel's blockage of form reporters from the strip and call for a ceasefire. so before we get into a more substantive discussion, tell us about that trip and why you, another journalist and photographers felt compelled to, to make that trip. because it's clearly is really policy to block coverage. how do they do that? they're constantly cutting off internet service electricity, phone service, and they have killed now over a 100 palestinians. journalists, many of the eldest sometimes often that with their families. clearly targeting

journalist, just as they did, was sharing a novel aqua from i was just the euro. who was shot by in his really stipe or she out on the helmet and aflac jackets. so you have about an inch and a half space as you know. and uh, and that is because the level of slaughter is something that we have not seen in decades. so i was in, sorry about during the war we were hit with 3 to 400 shells a day, you know, 4 to 5 data day, 2000 wounded a day. that's nothing compared to god we're, we're talking often upwards of 200 people being killed. a day, thousands of people wounded thousands more missing under the rubble. i think there's a statistic that says that every 10 minutes a child in gaza is killed. we've seen the pictures of child amputees. and so it's the level of killing that for those of us who have been as i have in a siege is just so unfathomable. and then also the fact that is real is working

very, very hard to mask the extent of that carnage. so that's why it was run by the egyptian press syndicate. now, we did not get to russell, and we didn't get to rafa because according to the egyptian government, they did not want an incident. israel is actually bombing the, the border at ross itself. and they have killed a, there was one strike that killed a gyptian sort of heading 3. so all of the a trucks are about 6 kilometers back of the very border itself is being attacked. that, of course, is where many palestinians have had to flee. supposedly it was a safe area along with honda, eunice city. i know very well. so yeah, that was i think those of us who spent a lot of time is added covering gaza along with my colleagues that out a 0. and every welton felt that we had to try to make some kind of protest of because the, the,

the goal is clearly to frown this uh, these kinds of massacres um, from the rest of the world. the united nations officials are telling us that some 90 percent of the deaths and injuries and guys are of civilians. fully half of guidance are at risk of starvation. that's according to the world food program. 90 percent of guidance, eat one meal a day. there isn't a single, fully functioning hospital in the whole of garza and as many as 2000000 guidance or at the border with egypt trying to save themselves. there is no end in sight to any of this misery. aside from the so called thoughts and prayers that we see for most countries in the world, why are so few nations doing nothing or almost nothing to help the palestinians? is it a question of these. busy at least not permitting it or is there something else? it's well that the palestinians, their friend less and they're powerless. and so they don't have anyone to advocate

for them. they've, this has long been true throughout the history of the 75 years of occupation and i include the or world, well, they rhetorically will say the right thing, but do nothing. i'm so this just fits with that pattern. i do want to make it clear . i haven't covered armed conflicts for 2 decades, that this is not a war against hamas. and as you just on the statistics of starvation that you just cited, this is a war against the palestinians. and the goal is to create a humanitarian crisis of such extremity. literally starvation, the spread of infectious diseases. there's no se sanitation, there is no clean water. people are packed in the u. n. schools which are then often bombed by the israelis. so we're talking about cholera, we're talking about all sorts of and we are in the cause of seeing wholesale death, not just from the bombs uh,

but from exposure from disease. and, and that is really the choice that is real and tends to offer the palestinians, either dest, through one of these means, or you are actively cleansed, you wait. and then there will reach a point and children dying parents watching their children, where the desperation will become so extreme. this is i think the is really policy that they will be able to empty gaza that has been stated publicly. oh yeah, i trust in hebrew, in english by many of the people around that in yahoo and i should stress that this is the most extreme government. they are errors, i'm of the fascist stick rabbi america, honda. when i was a lived in his real, the cock party which he ran was actually outlawed. he was eventually assassinated. and but the strain of kind of jewish fascism is always been there.

going all the way back to vladimir job job, attend ski, who mussolini, called a good factors. it's always been there. the route party, which was denounced by leading jewish intellectuals in the united states, albert einstein, hannah aaron, cindy hook, and others, they called in a fascist party that's, that's the party that nothing yahoo! his father belonged to and called for the complete ethnic, cleansing of palestinians from a store in palestine. that strain has always been there within sign isn't but now it's triumphant. now it's taken over and they, they speak and in bloodcurdling language, they call palestinians and nazi's. uh, you know, human animals except we've all heard that kind of rhetoric, but don't, that's not a hyperbolic. i know them, i actually know b b, i mean, that is what they believe. and when they talk about essentially the populating gaza, they mean it is uh,

and the only power that has the ability to essentially stop at the united states. uh, and that just is quite literally because for instance, their tank shells are produced in the united states. right. if that kind of stuff is cut off, they can't carry out this genocide, but unfortunately, especially the congress has, is bought and paid for by the israel lobby. and, and so i think those of us who have covered this conflict for a long time. uh we, and i know, i gotta say every day its quite from attic. i mean i see the pictures i recognize the streets. my office was in the center of guys, a city it's, it's, i think, you know, they may very well get away with it. help us understand us policy here, chris, i just don't understand the, the. ready on questioning, full throated support for israel that we see from the, by the administration. the us is supposed to be the guardian of global human rights . it's the country that mandates the human rights report every year for from every

embassy that it has all around the world. only someone who's blind deaf and dumb could misty human rights violations, and crimes against humanity that are taking place in gaza. why does the us allow this to happen? why do, why do washington policy makers jump up and down on some countries? and then what is real, get away with doing even worse? well, because of the money, i mean, you know, we live in a system of legalized bribery. right? biden is one of the largest recipients, i think may be the largest recipient of money from the israel lobby. so there's one because of the power of money to dominate the american political system. but also there's a cost if you attempt to stand up to the israel lobby. i mean, they've just talked about a $100000000.00 being used to take down rashid and to leave and others who have spoken out against the genocide. so, number one,

the fact that of the corruption in congress and number 2 because they are politically powerful enough to bring you down. i think that's, that's a, that's why in terms of america while you been overseas as i have this is farcical. the idea that the united states, the site isn't right, but you know, it's interesting and you may have noticed if you read the human rights reports out of the embassies, they're often very good. yes that's they are so like i cover, i lived in egypt and covered egypt, which does not have a great human rights record. but the report was good. i wrote the human right. oh, the rain for solar. yeah, the reports are actually really good. nobody, the government, the u. s. government doesn't pay any attention to them, but i always admire that people are right on because i, that's kind of my job as a journalist. this, that's the final i already saw. they're actually not bad. we're going to take a short break and when we come back, we're going to continue our conversation with pulitzer prize winning journalist chris had just on the situation in gaza. please stay to

the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the, the take a fresh look around. there's a life kaleidoscopic, isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power, tired vision with no real opinions. pictures designed to simplify. it will confuse who really wants a better world. and is it just because it shows very few fractured images presented

to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground? can the the, the new, the, the that is the one who bed for the default. the goal, something despite is the good that perhaps the district that's what the next. busy to that would work

the the welcome back to the whistle blowers, i'm john kerry onto we're speaking with chris hedges, one of the country's most renowned journalists, a pulitzer prize winner. and the former middle east bureau chief for the new york times. good to have you back with this chris. thank you. thank so much chris. these really connected recently took up legislation that you just kind of alluded to that would quote, encourage palestinians in gaza to relocate to the various countries of the world

and quote. and it was immediately endorsed by benjamin netanyahu. and by it's even more right wing governmental partners. there's a phrase of course that describes a policy like this. that phrase is ethnic cleansing. is that what we're heading toward here? the forest relocation of the palestinian people. that's clearly the goal is realized, call it transfer of, of, but there's huge resistance within the world, of course. so, uh, nothing yahoo has publicly stated that. they've been speaking to countries in africa, south america of and uh, there been reports that they will offer monetary inducements to accept refugees. when blinking anthony, blinking made his 1st trip to the middle east, the bag carrier for essentially the netanyahu government. and he met with president c, c in egypt and della and jordan and others, and attempted to sell them on this idea that they would accept

a certain number of palestinians, or they could roundly reject it. of course, um, uh, fiercely by egypt. because if you, as cc is pointed out, well if you want to move them out of because they're, they're saying that this is the, as well as the saying, this is humanitarian. a voluntary uh you know, exodus and humanitarian gesture and a see, see what said, well don't put them in the egyptian sign, i want you put them in the negative, which is the desert that is real control. so once they leave causal, they'll never come back. that's clearly the goal. that's where they, they've stated that publicly. that's not the secret. that is why their primary focus is making life a living hell for palestinian. i don't think from all i can tell from a distance they've inflicted terrible damage on her moss, which functions is all a symmetrical. you know, the surgeon forces do hit and run small groups, all that kind of stuff. the palestinians have learned how to do that. pretty well the same way has bella did when israel invaded southern lebanon and israel best it

was a stalemate. many people would offer you that is real, essentially had to withdraw. so yes, this goes back to its focuses. and that's why you're using, i mean, they talk about having to bomb hospitals, right? well, you know, because there are tunnels with turned out under cheaper. there weren't any but right? but then if you know what, don't think, go into the tunnels. i mean, you know, these, these kind of very obvious questions are not asked. so yes, that's clearly the policy. but there is huge resistance within the arab world. there actually i had read a report, i think was out of elders 0, but there were quotas, apparently 700-0028 rap 1100000 egypt, all of which was rejected. there have been reports in the egyptian press that the united states has offered monetary for forgiveness of egypt and economy is not in good shape. but when in 1 data or something like that very, it's very big that, um, uh, but if, you know, if you have, let's say

a 1000000 palestinians in egypt and sign it on the border, you are going to get cross border incursions on the part of palestinian resistance, that means it's really air strikes in egypt. i mean, and, and the different government as well aware of that. so that is that the intent i think is clear what they can actually accomplish. we don't know, but that's what they're moving towards, and that's why they are of, you know, the whatever a gets in is token and also it can't get, get very far, can't get much past ra, fun of so, and you have the desperation is such that what a truck to do get in are getting looted because people are so desperate like water and food and everything else. so that's, that's what is real wants the, by the ministration, certainly fully understands that they're trying to cover themselves by, you know, rhetorically saying, well, they should be more surgical in their strikes. you know,

they shouldn't kill so many civilians. i think that is just cover for the body administration. rhetorical cover um, but yes, that's the goal and, and when nothing yahoo talks about the war lasting months. and i think the reason is because for them that war is not want in till gaza is ethnically cleansed. i think you're right. getting a little deeper into this refugee situation. the egyptians are adamant that they will not open the border to accept refugees, even on a temporary basis. the gulf arabs, the rockies as well, are adamant that they will not accept any more palestinians than what they have already. the jordanians, the same situ. ready action on the surface of things, it may seem cool to people who don't understand the history of the region. with that said, the reason that these countries are accepting refugees is that they took refugees in 1948 and those refugees were never allowed to go home again. is that what we're seeing here, that, that these riley's just want to push them out forever?

and they're happy to tell a lie or to have the americans tell belie that this is just a temporary move to, to try to, to have violence abated. yeah. well, i'm not even sure the israeli government is not calling a temporary even. i mean, they're quite upfront that these people are there, they're not offering any kind of a time limit by which they can return. so ethnic cleansing has been part of the design this project since its inception. yes. creation of the state of israel in 1948, you had 750000 palestinians pushed off of their land. many had been living there for hundreds of years. many of them ended up in gaza. uh and uh, and then after the 1967 war, when israel took the remaining parts of the, of the west bank and gaza, the remaining parts of his store in palestine. another 350000 people were pushed

into the ashbrook. mm hm. uh, but there's also been a slow motion ethnic cleansing, of thousands of palestinians are dispossessed every year. yes. so that's why, for instance, the jordanian army has moved up to the borders of the west bank because they don't want. so you have 5500000 palestinians under occupation, but you have another 9000000 palestinians outside historic palestine outside of israel in the diaspora. um and uh, and so it, it's very clear, it's not a, you know, that the number one, of course it's not going to be temporary if they're pushed out of but this creates obviously a kind of regional instability that the or world doesn't want to deal with me, chris, you have a piece on your some stack entitled the death of israel in which you talk about how is real, was already at war with itself before october 7th. there were nationwide protests

against netanyahu's, so called judicial reform legislation, and the government, which remains in place is the most extremely right when government in israel's history, which says a lot the several ministers actually have felony convictions for hate crimes that they committed against palestinians. and even though countries usually rally around their leaders in times of war, netanyahu's, popularity was recently polled at just 15 percent. simply said, something has to get or what do you think that's going to look like war or no more things have to get ugly right? well, if you go back and read, i think the most pressing and writers on israel is the side and thinking of yes, yahoo leibowitz, for instance, have so they fully understood where this was going. that when you essentially construct a society to build an occupation for us, then that's about the prisons and steps are wholesale surveillance and secret

police. and all of the accoutrements that come with any occupying force and that has a poisoning effect on your own society. and of it, and so we reached a point where the, especially with the nothing you who government, which is you correctly point out is the most extremist in israel. a history where is real head, fractured largely along secular. and let's call it extreme. zion is religious lines . um, what israel remains, according to all opinion polls, and i believe they're true unified in terms of it's a salt against gaza, but that's a negative unity. it's a unity that's built around hate. yes. um, which is not sustainable ultimately over the long term. and i think also internationally, israel's not going to recover from this. it will forever be associated with the victims the palestinian victims. it's kind of pretend since the only democracy

in the middle east, which was always a lie. democracy was only for jews, not for anyone else in israel that it was kind of the bastion of western civilization. i. all of that is gone. then we'll have democracy in the mid area, right? so you saw in the u. n vote, you had 10 countries. it was a non binding resolution, but you only had 10 countries stand with israel, and 2 of them were united states and israel. so it will become more and more despotic. i think we should also be clear that nothing yahoo in that opinion poll is telling nothing you i was fully aware of the day the warranties finished politically is done. and so he has a very kind of twisted personal interest in continuing conflict because it, it retains, and he retains power. right? and i think there's probably also this thought that if we de populate guys or the palestinians are gone. um uh, you know, this, i think my guess is that he's thinking this may resurrect him. me politically. we

can't forget the west bank. i mean the, the west bank itself is devolving into increasing violence. it's right of the palestinian authority, which as we, as it was basically equivalent colonial governments setup as there was no kind of credibility left with the pallet stay in some us. so one of the things that is real is done is drive a mazda of stock into the stratosphere. i mean, they've been the rest best recruiting weapon. i'm off as i cover the war and also, but it was, you know, and the best recruiting, the weapon, the fmla ad with the desk quads. it's the same idea. i mean, they're recruiting now in lebanon and all sorts of other places. so yeah i, i think that is real, that, that it was always a mask, always a pretense, but that's gonna be gone. uh and uh, and the forces that control is real. we've already seen it with the, you know, human run about jewish human rights groups and internal as they've all all been

targeted. yes, even history, a history teacher was put in jail for 4 days. were i've been putting something up on his private, on his side, or i don't know what it was about calling for a cease fire. something so, um, you know, that says the great line from facilities about the scene in part of the tyranny athens and both on others and finally post on it. so remember there are many parallels by the way, the united states st. oh yes. indeed. many parallels and, and also is this ramp out of control, militarism which is infected, the united states, but also infected israel. chris hedges, thank you so much for being with us. the philosopher noam chomsky once said that the wanton killing of innocent civilians is terrorism. it's not a war against terrorism, he's right. and it ought to be mystified to all of us when governments either forget this or choose to ignore it. waging war against civilians is never right.

promoting terrorism is never right. genocide and ethnic cleansing are never right. and it is incumbent upon all of us to make sure that it ends thank you for joining us for another episode of the west of lowers. i'm john kerry onto we'll see you next time the. 2 2 2 2 the acceptance, and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously . why watch something that's so different. several opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to planes or do they have the state department, the c, i a weapons, bankers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and

whatever you do. don't marshall state main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way the french to spend minutes to admit that a number of the country citizens off. i think for ukraine it comes up to power as deny, though any french mercenaries in the country up to 60 a, legit for and soldiers were killed in a russian strikes and all cases image of palestinian civilians and medical workers allegedly torch advice ready for us as a lawyer describes the troubling human rights situation that a $1000.00 in prison, but unfortunately the present service and the patient out thirties are not responding to any requests concerning the thousands of the tvs