hate crimes. i'm a state department official guest charges dropped after he targets and stokes, a full truck vendor. no jail for steward. sel though it's just as a vice training. so the case has generated a lot of outrage, but it looks like the courts here in new york city. don't consider what stuart selda woods did to be very serious and have given him what many are calling a sweetheart deal. we'll have to see how this case develops as legal proceedings. continue. have a lawsuit goes, caleb mop and artsy, new york. all right, they say with our to international, i'm next, i'm going underground. the option response, the interviews dr. good for monterey, on western countries, support of israel as gaza slot by the

i'm action or tents and welcome back to going underground. broadcasting all around the world from the middle east. quite apart from the trauma and garza from british american to you, nation armed aerial bombardment, there is trauma all around the world. one of the greatest roman specialists in the world is all the cost saliva. doctor gabble much a. he's an award winning all of those things as last studio of interview with us, even found time to interview prince harry earlier in the year. but today he has catastrophe in the middle east on his mind. his books include when the body says no, the cost of hitting stress in the realm of hungry ghosts, close encounters with addiction and the myth of normal trauma, illness and healing. and that talks that culture and joins me again from vancouver in canada. thank you so much. talk to much have a rag coming on the show you. you said recently that everything one says about recent events is going to hurt someone. why is it so difficult to even talk about foam or amongst palestinians in the parliaments of nato countries like your country,

canada, fedloan and other countries in western europe? i think there are 2 major reasons. one of them is the reality that israel, the input this, the phone, the state of is rose, what it is such a deep trauma of you, steve, and you're going in eastern europe. but then of course, with the 2nd lower in germany as well. and european countries feel or fear fender of guilt about what happened. did you lose in europe? that's one stream. but the other end, so that there's a fear that by talking about person in trauma, you somehow and then any shooting or invalidating jewish trauma. but there's a more major reason which is that, um, the english speaking countries, but they clearly were, are rooted in colonialism. the they'll, you know, whether it's united states or canada or australia. and of course, we're all on the belgian french. they all participated in the colonial project.

what i'm saying is that these countries either were rooted in found in colonialism or have colonial policy themselves. so they're more likely to identify with the colonial mindset then with the mindset of the people who've been cologne in arch. and now it doesn't matter how you see the foundation of israel is being really dangerous trauma. the reality is that it couldn't have been established without phone imperial control and the colonization of the land of a land that was already populated by indigenous people. so the colonial mindset dominates less than thinking. and so the idea of this combination of historical jewish drama, and a colonial project that to the west or mines seems perfectly natural. so from the western point of view, the motion would like to do identify with the colonizer, the people being colonized, even after all the progress that so many people are talking about industry on,

on television. i mean, you've, you've compared the lies in a donation media about what's happening in gaza to the lives told the about vietnam before. um, uh the great, and they've done l as book who's been on this show actually, why, why do they lie? again, it's a, it's, it is in the service of imperial policy so that the united states has the biggest empire in the history of the world. is god, what a kind of military bases internationally it dominates the world culturally and less so was trying to rising, but used to donated economically as well. and it's the united states decided a long time ago just as breton decided back in 1917. and the 1920 is that it's an interest. so the video chat prior to establish the jewish entity in palestine. i'm quoting winston churchill in the same way the united states decided

that it's in his interest to have this on single aircraft carrier go to 0. in the middle east and the press always serves the interests of the imperial project. so if you look at any number of american wars, vietnam based on the pack of legalize the gulf of tonkin incident, for example, that gave the excuse of the americans to bundle us. we have now never even happened . but all the press reporters, as reality, the weapons of mass destruction, which was the excuse to invade iraq, which a 5 year old child could tell was it could be concoction. nevertheless, the press and susie has to be tempted. and so for the last 6070 years, this the press as enthused as a lead trumpet at all. all these really talking points and totally ignore the, the, the occupation and the depression and the repeated the killings of palestinians.

because it's, so it's american imperial policy, which is what the, the press is subservient to, you know, what? and then 10 years, 15 years later, don't do some a soul searching. oh, my god, we made a mistake. ellsbury was right. you know, pentagon papers was right. we have now was based on a pack of lies, or they'll do some soul searching. oh my god, there were are no weapons of mass destruction. but the next door that comes along, they'll always fall into line. and they're doing that right now as well. and you think this is a conscious slide, i mean, clearly you've been talking design is communities in recent weeks, a mid sphere that you cause a genocide. then i'm going to say they know they're lying. and what hillary clinton, she knows she's lying. when she talks about bedded babies and the need to beaumont hospital, i don't know if this people at the top nor their line or whether they're so bought

into the so boxed into the 80 ology that they'd be serving all their lives so that they're sitting on fluids but the actual line probably sometimes they are, but probably also often they believe what they're saying because i think when you consider who rises to the top in the system, nobody will speaks the truth ever rises to the top. so there's a selection process that happens, but then you get the level of a clinton or where joe biden, or reissue some smack or justin to do it for that night. or they've been through some of the processes that they have to prove their loyalty to the system. now, by the time they raised the only the most loyal to get there. and so it's hard to tell whether they're lying sometimes or whether just sincerely telling. uh, untruth is, you know, i, i'd have to talk to them personally. i can't tell i, i suspect they do both. and even though they do but, and in this context,

where the peoples of nato countries of the united states and west and your, of backing to the hilt and the, is there any over ations on, on guys of the, the weaponry they've billions of dollars of age and so on, what is the rest of us and the people? how do they cope? i mean, of course, we're not, we're just forgetting for a 2nd. the trauma of all those survivors in, in gaza tonight and today. well, how do you suggest people cope with the trauma of those feeling hopeless in nato countries, arming the legs, genocide as they watch it on social media feeling deck is nothing they can do to stop it. of course, the reality is that these mass movements that arise in response to these horrors, they have their expressions, and a lot of people come together like a $100000.00 people in britain a few days ago. but you know, it's,

it's hard to keep up those kind of movements, you know, and the governments don't care any anyway. but i say to people is number one through the work. and this is for me as much is for anybody else, do the work, speak you to speak it as long as you can connect with other people as much as you can. but don't be attached to the outcome. you know, don't let the outcome defeats, you know, that you contribute to the truth in the world by or pausing some atrocity. but don't take it personally because historically, the good guys always lows. that's just how it is. you know, and, and you have to just make accept the fact that you can do, but it's something you've spoken the truth here. you've helped to sign something like those temporarily. i hope you mean, right. well, you lose temporarily. yeah. but you can do that. there's something important in the world in the long term. that's exactly my point. the idea of contribution has not

been in vain, and there's a family jewish rabbi said 2000 years ago or a little bit more that the task is not yours to finish. but neither are your fee not to take part in it. and so, so do you make your contribution? but don't do that as to the outcome or. okay, then whatever's going well, what about that is this association then between the beginning of children and those working on the weapons that you know, britain's biggest manufacturers be a systems northrop grumman, raise you on boeing in your country in the united states. and of course, the canadian military and the associated companies, as part of the military industrial complex is massive in nature countries. how do you explain that this association between the work is work on the weapons doing the killing? they don't act as musicians and so on. told by their agents and studios and publishers just don't speak out and don't do what you just said about the need to follow your

conscience or something like that. in canada and canada, there's been a number of people in the arts world who have lost their jobs because as we go in here in vancouver island, there are um, academics of spoken to not being threatened by the union by their employing institutions. there's already a lot people to participate in such things. i mean the ours, my on the manufacturer is on the association of that. they, they're cut off from the humanity that they, they couldn't be connected to their sensory commodity and do the job that they do. and i know lots of people are able to be very nice to their families and their dogs . but still the terrible things are there in the world, you know, and this is a well known phenomenon. you know, so that this, the association between what i do in the world and what i allow myself to

feel is, is a very common human trait. and a lot of society edy's it to, it's like that and smells only like that in the west is like that internationally. as long as there's another kind of association us talking to a young muslim student here that to, you know, service colombia. she says that she's not being on her body is the only way she can . so i, you know, so that i actually, she was worried about she's, i'm not even all it is. i'm not feeding my feelings. and i said listen, don't worry about it. that's the organisms attempted to survive or to a new or what's on your bill. we'll come back to your feelings later. so, so that this association it can serve the function of doing terrible things in the world. but sometimes it's also a response to too much pain in the world. i mean, clearly inside edition about the holocaust came through slowly. at 1st it was room

or 1st about what the nazis were doing. i don't know thing. i mean, it's all because you're in canada and we saw a true to applauding members or not c s. s. so there's some just associations going on there. but today we can use social media to see what's happening on this industrial scale in real time. well, and that's a germany there, nancy did everything they could to actually hide what they were doing so that i actually fully believe that all the most german saw the anti jewish laws and practices and a truck and, and violence of the nancy's they didn't know about auschwitz, you know, they didn't know about treblinka, because sometimes they didn't want to know, but they didn't know. which doesn't mean that they didn't support the end to send. that is, and then the, you know, the nancy stay it, but is specifically know about the atrocities. many people did. of course,

many soldiers saw them, but it's been, there must have talked about it at home, but it wasn't the mass media. what is particularly horrendous, right? now and i think it's a politically darth time in the world and i've talked a lot of people about this is that we're seeing it happen. we're seeing babies the bond you see and sticking their limbs of their children are the rental, dr. gabe? oh my tell you, i'll have to stop you that more from the renown physician and award winning all of the after this break the,

[000:00:00;00] the the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with renown physician and award winning all of the adult. you got all of my say, so it's all right, i'll come out today for interrupting you and ended. but when we were talking about the real time viewing of people billions around the world of what's happening in

gaza. i was saying i wouldn't waste is particularly dark time right now is that we're always seeing lot, you know, in live action almost or dismemberment or young children and parents digging their kids out of their revel. and the politicians are just saying this is ok. and, and the media for the most part is justifying it. and there's a huge disconnect with you, but people are watching and what they're being told. and i think that's hard for a lot of people are right now. and this is almost unprecedented. it's, it's impossible to compare corrupt these atrocities. and let me just say for the record that october, the 7th was, itself is an atrocity. and my view, um, but this ongoing, they have plea of cruelty unspeakable cruelty

that we're witnessing in the face of media support. and the political class in most of the western world is just cheering it on. it's the darkest thing i've ever seen in my whole life. and that senior lot is really saying a lot coming for coming from you. obviously. i mean you did mentioned october 7th. the israel is indeed an apartheid state as a is riley and jos, like mid selim say, does not justify events like october. the 7th, i mean, nelson mandela's dad's now have interviewed him and because he believed in the use of violence against civilians in the fight against apartheid south africa. not, nothing justifies october the 7th. but it's not a question of justifying anything. is the collection of, do we understand it and how do we understand it and how do we move forward to something different? and there's always this question of is,

is it is really response start over the 7th port portion of the disproportionate? well, another question is, is that the, the 7th portion of the response to 80 years of oppression and apartheid and killings and massacres. so you can begin with october, the 7th. and i don't believe that the feeling, but i firmly reject the idea that it is legitimate to kill one on people and children and old people and so on. at the same time, when you look at where that arise from, where that came from, which is, as other people have know, that as being called the world's largest concentration camp in 2005 people are blaming home us. and i'm not here to support on us. i don't, i come most certainly what they stand for, what they do. they do their own p. the factor, even if i say that 1st go back to the i know, but we might get on to why you feel,

you have to say that, but could definitely go. yeah, no, really, because the colonization is tilted in such a way as to make it necessary to even say that, you know, but what i was gonna say was, but in 2005, there was a study done in guys internationally actually looking at children in war zones, the more as traumatized kids in the world with the kids living in gaza. this is before how much took over. so you know, so in other words, what we have here is generations of trauma as children growing up in its open air prison looking across the fields where the families used to live in work. and when they do peaceful protests, they're picked up by is really sniper. you know, so why don't we asking was october the 7th, a full portion that response to is ready for us. what are we asking is on the bottom, your browser, but person to talk over the 7. i mean, it's a completely a store call and it is really a story. and you know, i'm puppy talks about the,

his story size, the action of, of the situation. so in the west and media, every attempt is made to the store size of the so like it happened in a vacuum. it's not a justification to say that it did not happen in a vacuum. it happened after decades of collective, brutal trauma visited on the palestinians. that's ongoing. well, that's what it was, the composer, that's what i told you. gutierrez said, of course, and israel cooled on the resignation of the un secretary general and the non pop a week, a be able to see our interview with him on the rumble channel after october, the 7th. but you know about this region. you ford for through. you've studied this area all your life, given me. what about uh, they're only hundreds of thousands of the seats of britain and so many tens of thousands. and so in the united states, the cities across the country and in north america. what about the powells favorite stand by of human nature?

how do you expect the use the events there are those that don't really understand the situation in palestine. to further the idea that this is somehow to do with human nature and that the new kind really strengthened the belief that human nature has the potential to be good out of what we're watching on our social media at the moment is in my book and this is norma, would you kindly mention there's a chapter on the soul calls human nature? and the argument is that human nature is by the necessity, aggressive and individualistic, and am now style and violent. and so total nonsense, you know, the human nature is a range of potentials and it's a question of what conditions give rise to what kind of potentials my son, the annual who haven't met. but my 2nd son, let's just say my 1st and my eldest son into 2 young israelis and instagram

a few days ago, who were against or were against what this tied is doing. well, if this human nature, why and they support him award to, you know, i mean, she looked at the boat, it was a human being, hitler was a human being a jesus was a human being a felon. was a human being. and joe biden is a human being and the sort of the people that oppose job i'm so there is no human nature. what there is that's, that was there is, are systems that promo to one aspect of human potential another. but people are faithful of being infinitely cruel and incidentally kind. and the question is, what kind of conversations that we need to have and what kind of conditions you need to establish. they'll promote the be not non folding over a potential, as opposed to the violent and aggressive and cruel ones. aside from the political structures obviously here in the systems,

then how do you think fear perpetuates these mastic as of, of babies and children, fear of items, warships you mentioned by doing the being a human, the fear of a politician. well look for your father. lessons fear of speaking out fee is of a to have you know where the anti defamation league i understand cold jewish groups was afford piece, hate groups. yeah. yeah. yeah. and jews like me, i always told there were full of self hatred and it was nonsense. you can only laugh if it wasn't so tragic, but um, so known, chowsky said that there's nothing more easy than to make the american people afraid . and fear is a powerful form of political control. because then people are afraid, the rational parts of the mind goes offline and they go into defensive mode and defensive mode, they're willing to, but with any kind of aggression,

they'll look to be fair. after october the 7th. and there's every reason why many israelis will go into sir mode. i mean, something terrible happened during the last people and, you know, now they also doing so in a vacuum. but they don't understand the boston and situation at all. they're not taught it. they're taught to ignore it, but nevertheless, a lot of fear that somebody had nothing. yahoo! who has practice the same policies all his life. he doesn't need fear to do all this. he will presses the palestinians. he has been tortured. he has the villages taken over by settlers. he belongs browser repeatedly getting hundreds of people. but he'll take that fear and he'll use it to justify the worst kind of atrocities. and that's what politicians do. so the vietnam war withdrawal based on his dominated theory, that is for that, the economy to stick with the and then they're going to take over the whole world

to make the american people afraid. and that allows you to manipulate them into it is not but dissipating animal participating in but also condoning the worst kind of atrocities. so fear is both a genuine and human response to the thread. but it's also a postal code to, to manipulate populations with and fear some might say is a part of modern life. i mean, clearly there's a fear in the highly unstable economy about the feeding a family. the idea are in mass media or news is often to try and create fear of your next door neighbor because make the world see more criminal than it is stuff i'd like to say. so how do you, how do you go past this fear and somehow and daily at the moment the fear mongering is done as how mos are isis of regardless of whether the united states

are involved with isis. and they're trying to make americans and canadians feel that somehow mice, they're going to attack vc place in vancouver or something. well, that's the conversation that's going on is that, you know, almost wants to kill all the jews in the world, and they're going to feed them there. they're going to come out to, you know, realistically speaking is speaking, just a little nonsense. a mazda is a relatively small organization compared to say, these early state, living in a area of 5 miles, but 25 miles highly controlled. they've always been so they could sting is are all, but they could never oppose any dangerous signal, significant interested to let alone jews and the rest of the world. that's the 1st point. the 2nd point is, let's assume that how most is you heading organization. that's all it is. let's just assume that for a minute. for the sake of argument, who are these people in almost the same time with the children that i mentioned,

or go into the study in 2005. where are you the most traumatized population in the world? and when most jews, they see were army uniforms. with the start of david and the u. n. n. and everything that's being done to them is done in the name of the jewish state. and the manager of jewish organizations in the world by and large line up with what's happening to them and justify it and have for decades. do we have to do? we have to identify the hatred of them as a member for doing business with historic and assemblies in europe is not the same . i'm not just to find it again and just saying there's nothing more natural then under those conditions, traumatized people will. they ate their oppressors, and if the oppressors are saying we're doing this as jews in the name of the jewish

people, what do we expect? and so i wasn't the only one to respond to october, the 7th in a very um, mixed way, and i thought it was horrible. and at the same time i thought what are the expect after all these like is what did the expect? and that wasn't the only one of the people who visited the place like i, i've been to the occupied territories who, who know the situation 1st and that's hospitality. we're the ones. when i say we, i mean is really i don't identify which is a state. but essentially state, but by the colonial powers, going back to the 1920s that have created a situation where there's gonna be a lot of hatred. and what's really interesting is if you look at the major design

is leaders of been going on. blood of the job within ski then graham was the 1st by minister as 0 learning. the drivetrain ski found the, the version is honest. when of the scientists move in, which became her route, which be led by begun and fundamentally by shamir, and later by shamir, both been going to jump within ski, as well as the motion of the day on, even in the 1950s, said that we call what the odds are doing cameras and but all they're doing is they're defending the land from us. don't take a moment. okay, thank you. all right, thank you. and that's it for the show. and condolences from the whole team here we're going underground to those bereaved by the ongoing violence here in the middle east. we'll be back with a brand new episode on saturday, but until then, keep in touch by the social media. if it's not sensitive in your country and had to add channel going on, the ground tv on mobile don't come to watch. new and old episodes of going underground sees that

the is really our strikes, killed 5 military advisors of the arabian revolutionary guard corps, and the syrian capital, the massive israel has gone as far as to create from us itself. yes, from us has been financed by these really government. they use top diplomatic sources. the is really government of creating and sponsoring hamas to prevent formation of the palestinian states, the italian police use water cannon and tear gas against the protesters and the