the i'm action or attention, welcome back to going underground, broadcasting all around the world from the middle east. quite apart from the trauma and garza from british american to you, nation armed aerial bombardment, there is trauma all around the world. one of the greatest trauma specialists in the world is all the costs of. i've talked to gamble my child, he's an award winning offers. and his last studio of interview with us even found time to interview brings harry is here in the and today he has catastrophe. in the middle east on his mind, his books include when the body says no, the cost of it and stress in the realm of hungry ghosts, close encounters with the diction and the myth of normal trauma, illness and healing. and that talks at culture and joins me again from vancouver in canada. thank you so much. talk to much have a rag coming on the show you. you said recently that everything one says about recent events is going to hurt someone. why is it so difficult to even talk about

foam or amongst palestinians in the parliaments of nato countries like your country, canada, fedloan and other countries in western europe? i think there are 2 major reasons. one of them is the reality that israel, the input this, the found the state of is rose, wooded and such a deep trauma of jewish people. and you're going in eastern europe. but then, of course, with the 2nd lower in germany as well. and europe and countries feel a fear offender of guilt about what happened. did you lose in europe? that's one stream. but the other end, so that there's a fear that by talking about person in trauma, you somehow and then any shooting or invalidating jewish trauma. but there's a more major reason, which is that, um, the english speaking countries, particularly where are rooted in colonialism. the they'll, you know,

whether it's united states or canada or australia. and of course, it's all on the belgium and france. they all participated in the cool little project. what i'm saying is that these countries either were rooted in founded in colonialism or have colonial policy themselves. so they're more likely to identify with the colonial mindset, the mindset of the people being colonial. now, it doesn't matter how you see the foundation of israel is being willing to injure strong. the, the reality is that it couldn't have been established without for an imperial control. and the colonization of the land of a land that was already populated by indigenous people. so the colonial mindset dominates less than thinking. and so the idea of this combination of historical jewish drama, and a colonial project that to the west or mines seems perfectly natural. so from the

western point of view, that motion would like to do identify with the colonizer, the people being colonized, even after all the progress. and so many people are talking about industry on, on television. i mean, you've, you've compared the lies in a donation media about what's happening in gaza to the lives told the about vietnam before. um, uh the great and laid down eligible, who's been on this show actually, why, why do they lie? again, it's a, it's, it is in the service of imperial policy so that the united states has the biggest empire in the history of the world is good. what a kind of military bases internationally it dominates the world culturally and less . so was china rising, but used to donated economically as well. and it's the united states, besides a long time ago, just as breton decided back in 1917. then the 1920 is that it's an

interest to the british empire to establish the jewish entity in palestine. i'm quoting western churchill in the stanley. this is decided that it's in his interest to have this on single aircraft carrier go to 0 in the middle east. and the practice always serves the interests of the imperial project. so if you look at any number of american wars of vietnam based on the pack of complete lines, the gulf of tongue can incident, for example, that gave the excuse to the americans to bomb the us. we are now never even happened. but all the press reporters, as reality, the weapons of mass destruction, which was the excuse to invade iraq, which a 5 year old child could tell, was a complete concoction. the never the last, the press and suzy has to be tempted. and so for the last 6070 years, this, the press as enthusiastically trumpeted all,

all these really talking points and totally ignore the, the, the occupation and the depression and the repeated killings of palestinians. because it suits american imperial policy, which is what the, the press is subservient to, you know, what? and then 10 years, 15 years later, they'll do some soul searching. oh my god, we, we made a mistake. ellensburg was right. you know, pentagon papers was right. we have now was based on a pack of lies, or they'll do some soul searching. oh my god, there were are no weapons of mass destruction. but the next door that comes along, they'll always fall into line. and they're doing that right now as well. and you think this is a conscious lie? i mean, clearly you've been talking design is communities in recent weeks, a mid sphere that you cause a genocide. then i'm going to say they know they're lying. and what hillary clinton,

she knows she's lying. when she talks about bedded babies and the need to beaumont hospital, i don't know if these people are the top nor their line or whether they're sold, bought into the, so boxed into the 80 ology that they'd be serving all their lives. so that they're saying untruths. but other actually line probably sometimes they are, but probably also often they believe what they're saying because i think when you consider who rises to the top in the system, nobody was speaks the truth ever rises to the top. so there's a selection process that happens. but then you get the level of a clinton or a well joe biden, or re issue some smack or justin to though for that matter, they've been through so many a processes that they have to prove their loyalty to the system. now, by the time they race are the only the most loyal will get there. and so it's hard to tell whether they're lying, sometimes of weather or just sincerely telling. uh,

untruths is, you know, i, i'd have to talk to them personally. i can't tell i, i suspect they do both. and even though they do, but, and in this context where the peoples of nato countries of the united states invest in your backing to the hilt and the, is there any over ations on, on guys of the, the weaponry the billions of dollars of age. and so on, one of the rest of us and the people, how do they cope? i mean, of course, we're not, we're just forgetting for a 2nd, the trauma of all those survivors in, in gaza tonight and today. well, how do you suggest people cope with the trauma of those feeling hopeless in nato countries, arming the legs, genocide as they watch it on social media feeling deck is nothing they can do to stop it. but of course, the reality is that these mass movements that arise in response to these horrors,

they have their expressions. and a lot of people come together like a $100000.00 people in britain a few days ago. but you know, it's, it's hard to keep up those kind of movements, you know, and the governments don't care any anyway. but i say to people is number one through the work. and this is for me as much is for anybody else, do the work, speak you to speak it as loudly as you can. connect with other people as much as you can. but don't be attached to the outcome. you know, don't like the outcome defeats, you know, that you contribute to the truth in the world by or pausing some atrocity. but don't take it personally because historically, the good guys always low is owed, as you know. and, and you have to just make accept the fact that you can do something. you've spoken the truth. you're, you've helped to sign something like those temporarily. i hope you mean so well,

you lose temporarily. yeah. but you can do that. there's something important to know role in the long term. that's exactly my point, that your contribution has not been in vain. and there's a fan as jewish rabbi said 2000 years ago, or a little bit more that the task is not yours to finish. but neither are you see not to take part in it. and so, so do you make your contribution? but don't do that as to the outcome. ok then whatever. well, what about that is this association then between the killing of children and those working on the weapons. and, you know, britain's biggest manufacturers be a systems, northrop grumman raphael and boeing in your country in the united states. and of course, the canadian, military and associated companies as part of the military industrial complex is massive in nature countries. how do you explain that this association between the work is work on the weapons doing the killing settlement act as musicians and so on

told by their agents and studios and publishers just don't speak out and don't do what you just said about the need to follow your conscience or something like that in canada, in canada, there's been a number of people in the arts world who have lost their jobs for business because i'm in here and vancouver, i live there are um, academics of spoken to a not being threatened by the union by their employing institutions, those are the people who are participating such things. i mean the ours, my on the manufacturers is on the association of that they, they're cut off from the humanity that they, they couldn't be connected to this se, commodity and do the job that they do. and i know lots of people are able to be very nice to their families and their dogs, but still do terrible things out there in the world. you know, and this is a well known phenomenon. you know?

so so that this, the association between what i do in the world and what i allow myself to feel is, is a very common human trait. and a lot of society edy's it to, it's like that, it's not only like that in the west. it's like that international as long as there's another kind of association us talking to a young muslim student here at that time. you know, so there's going to be a, she says that she's not being on her body is the only way she can. so i, you know, so that i actually, she was worried about, she's, and i mean obviously i'm not feeling my feelings. and i said listen, don't worry about it, that's the organisms attempt to survive or to endure what's uninsurable. we'll come back to your feelings later. so so that this association it can serve the function of doing terrible things in the world. but sometimes it's also

a response to too much pain in the world. i mean, clearly inside edition about the holocaust came through slowly. at 1st it was room or 1st about what the nazis were doing. i don't know thing. i mean it's all because you're in canada and we saw a true to applauding members are not c s s, so there's some just associations going on there. but today we can use social media to see what's happening on this industrial scale in real time. well, and that's a germany there, nancy did everything they could to actually hide what they were doing so that i actually fully believe that all the most german saw the anti jewish laws and practices and a to an end violence of the nancy's they didn't know about auschwitz, you know, they didn't know about treblinka, and sometimes they didn't want to know, but they didn't know. which doesn't mean that they didn't support the anti semitism

in the, you know, the nasty state but is specifically know about the atrocities. many people did, of course, many soldiers saw them, but it's been, they must have thought about it at home. but it wasn't the mass media. what is particularly horrendous right now, and i think it's a politically darth time in the world. and i've talked to a lot of people about this is that we're seeing it happen. we're seeing babies bond this effect and sticking their lives of their children or the rental doctor got all my tell you. i'll have to stop you that more from the renown physician and award winning all of the after this break the hi. i'm rick sanchez. and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch

my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. little opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do the have the state department c. i a weapons, bankers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't marshall state main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time. but again, it's not. we don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way inside the, the welcome back to going undergoing. i'm still here with renown physician and award winning goals. i don't you got all of my tag. i'm so sorry. don't come out today for interrupting you in ended. but when we were

talking about the real time viewing of people billions around the world of what's happening in gaza, i was saying that what makes this of it particularly dark time right now is that we're all are seeing lot, you know, in live action almost the dismemberment the young children and parents digging their kids out of the rubble. and the politicians are just saying this is okay. and, and the media for the most part is justifying it. and there's a huge disconnect with what people are watching and what they're being told. and i think that's hard for a lot of people right now. and this is almost unprecedented. it's impossible to compare corrupt these atrocities. and let me just say, for the record that october, the 7th was, itself is an atrocity. and my view um, but this ongoing, they play the cruelty unspeakable cruelty

that we're witnessing in the face of media support. and the political class in most of the western world is just cheering it on. it's the darkest thing i've ever seen in my whole life. and that's saying a lot is really saying, is that coming coming from you obviously. i mean you did mentioned october 7th. the israel is indeed an apartheid state as a israeli a n g o is like, but selim say, does that justify events like october? the 7th, i mean, nelson mandela's dad's now have interviewed him and of course he believed in the use of violence against civilians in the fight against apartheid. south africa not nothing justifies october. the 7th, i don't, but it's not a question of justifying anything. is the question of, do we understand it and how do we understand it and how do we move forward to something different? and there's always this question of is, is,

is really respond stuck over the 7th port portion of the disproportionate. well, another question is, is that the, the 7 portion of the response to the, to years of oppression and apartheid and killings and massacres. so you can begin with october, the 7th. and i don't believe that the feeling, but i firmly reject the idea that it is legitimate to kill one on people and children and old people and so on. at the same time, when you look at where that arise from, where that came from, which is, as other people have know, that has been called the world's largest concentration camp in 2005 people are blaming home us. and i'm not here to support them us, i don't, i come most certainly what they stand for, what they do, what they do, their own p, the factor, even if i say that to push them back to the i know,

but we might get on to why you feel you have to say that because generally, yes. oh, yeah. no, yeah, because the colonization is tilted in such a way as to make it necessary to even say that, you know, but what i was gonna say was, but in 2005, there was a study done in guys internationally actually looking at children in war zones the more as traumatized kids in the world with the kids living in gaza. this is before how much to go over. so it's, you know, so in other words, what we have here is generations of trauma as children growing up in his open air prison looking across the fields where the families used to live in work. and when they do peaceful protests, they're picked up by his early sniper. you know, so why don't we asking was october the 7th, a pop portion, that response to is ready for us. what are we asking is on the bottom, your browser, but person to talk over the 7. i mean, it's a completely

a store call. and as is really historian, you know, i'm puppy talks about the historic size of the action of, of the situation. so interested in media, every attempt is made to the store size of the so like it happened in a vacuum. it's not a justification to say that it does not happen in a vacuum. it happened after decades of collective, brutal trauma visited on the palestinians. that's ongoing. well, that's what it was that and that's what i told you. gutierrez said, of course, and israel cooled on the resignation of the un secretary general and the non pop a week, a be able to see our interview with him on the rumble channel after october, the 7th. but you know about this region. you ford for through. you've studied this area all your life, given me. what about uh, they're only hundreds of thousands of the seats of britain and so many tens of thousands and so in the united states, the cities across the country and in north america. what about the powells

favorites? stand by of human nature. how do you expect the use the events there are those that don't really understand the situation in palestine. to further the idea that this is somehow to do with human nature, and that the kind really strengthened the belief that human nature has the potential to be good out of what we're watching on our social media. at the moment in my book to mr. norma, would you kindly mention there's a chapter on this sort of human nature? and the argument is that human nature is by a necessity, aggressive and individualistic, and am now style and violent and so on. total nonsense, you know, um human nature is a range of potentials and it's a question of what conditions give rise to what kind of potentials my son, the annual who you haven't met. but my 2nd son,

let's just say my 1st and my eldest son into 2 young israelis and instagram a few days ago, were against or were against what this side is doing. well, if this human nature, why and a supporting the war to, you know, i mean, she looked at the boat, it was a human being, hitler was a human being. jesus was a human being and tell him, was a human being. and joe biden is a human being and so are the people that oppose job, i mean, so there is no human nature. what there is that's, that was there is, are systems that promo to one aspect of human potential another. but people are faithful of being infinitely cruel and incidentally kind. and the question is, what kind of conversations that we need to have and what kind of conditions you need to establish. they'll promote the be not non folding over a potential, as opposed to the violent and aggressive and cruel ones. aside from the political

structures obviously here in the systems, then how do you think fear perpetuates these mastic as of, of babies and children, fear of vitamins warships you mentioned by doing the being a human the fear of a politician? well look for your father lawson's fear of speaking out. fee is of uh you know, at the anti defamation league i understand cool. jewish groups, those are the 4 piece. hate groups. yeah, yeah, yeah. and just like me, i always told there were full sales data and then it was nonsense, you know, particularly laugh if it wasn't so tragic but so known. chowsky said that there's nothing really easy then to make the american people afraid. and fear is a powerful form of political control, because then people are afraid, the rational parts of the mind goes offline and they go into the defensive mode and

defensive mode. they're willing to work with any kind of aggression. now look to be fair. after october, the 7th. so there's every reason why many is early, so we're going to fear and mode. i mean, some thing terrible happened during the last people and, you know, now they also doing so in a vacuum where they don't understand the boston and situation at all. they're not taught it. they're taught to ignore it. but nevertheless, a lot of fear that somebody had nothing. yahoo! who has practice the same policies all his life. he doesn't need fear to do all this. he will presses the past indians. he has been tortured. he has the villages taken over by settlers. he belongs browser, repeatedly getting hundreds of people, but he'll take that sphere and he'll use it to justify the worst kind of atrocities . and that's what politicians do. so the vietnam war withdrawal based on his

dominated theory that is related to kind of this particularly, and then they're going to take over the whole world to make the american people afraid. and that allows you to manipulate them into is not but dissipating animal participating in, but also condoning the worst kind of atrocities. so fear is both a genuine and human response to thread, but it's also a potent quote to, to manipulate populations with and fear some might say is a part of modern life. i mean, clearly there's a fear in the highly unstable economy about the feeding of family. the idea or in mass media or news is often to try and create fear of your next door neighbor. because make the world see more criminal than it is stuff. i lied say so . how do you, how do you go past this fear and somehow and daily at the moment the fear

mongering is done as how mos are isis of regardless of whether the united states are involved with isis. and they're trying to make americans and canadians feel that somehow hamas are going to attack these, the place in vancouver or something. well, that's the conversation that's going on is the most wants to kill all the jews in the world, and they're going to see them there. they're gonna come out to, you know, realistically speaking is speaking, just a little nonsense. a mazda is a relatively small organization compared to say, these early state, living in a area of 5 miles, but 25 miles, highly controlled. they've always been, uh, so they could sting a 0, but they could never oppose any dangerous signal, significant, interested to that alone, jews and the rest of the world. that's the 1st point. the 2nd point is, let's assume that how most is you heading organization. that's all it is. let's just assume that for a minute. for the sake of argument,

who are these people are not much the same from that, that showed him that i mentioned, or go into the study in 2005. where are you the most traumatized population in the world? and when most jews, they see were army uniforms. with the start of david and the us and. and everything has been done to them is done in the name of the jewish state. and the major jewish organizations in the world by and large line up with what's happening to them and justify it and have for decades. do we have to do? we have to identify the hatred of them as a member for doing business with historic and assemblies in europe is not the same . i'm not justifying it again and just saying there's nothing more natural then under those conditions, traumatized people will. they ate their oppressors,

and if the oppressors are saying we're doing this as jews in the name of the jewish people, what do we expect? and so i wasn't the only one to respond to october, the 7th in a very, um, mixed way, and i thought it was horrible. and at the same time i thought, what are the expect after all these back is what did you expect? and that wasn't the only one lot of the people who visited the place like i, i've been to the occupied territories who, who know the situation 1st. and that's how still it to a we're the ones when i say we, i mean these really i don't identify with as a state, but essentially state, but by the colonial powers. going back to the 19 twenty's that i've created a situation where there's gonna be a lot of hatred. and what's really interesting is if you look at the major sign is

leaders of ben gloria on the beach of within sky begwayne was the 1st by minister, the 0 loading. the drivetrain ski found the, the version is honest. when of the scientists move in, which became her route, which be led by begun and fundamentally by shamir, and later by shamir, both been going to gelatin ski as well as the motion of the day on, even in the 1950s, said that we call what the odds are doing cameras and but all they're doing is they're defending the land from us. don't take up all much. i thank you. all right, thank you. and that's it for the show. and condolences from the whole team here we're going underground to those bereaved by the ongoing violence here in the middle east. we'll be back with a brand new episode on saturday, but until then, keep in touch by the social media. if it's not sensitive in your country and had to add channel going on the ground to the normal, don't come to watch. new and old episodes of going underground sees that

the the, the,

the, the, it is really our strike hills 5 iranian is law, make revolutionary guard poor advisors in the syrian capital, damascus. israel has gone as far as to create from us itself. yes, from us has been financed by these really govern the use top diplomatic uses, the is really governmental creating and sponsoring her mom to prevent the formation of a palestinian state. free latin american countries request international courts investigate report it is really crimes in gaza. the can to tally and police use water cannon and tear gas against pro.