that 65000 tons of bonds, 3 times the power of hiroshima have now killed at least 24000 palestinians, mostly women and children. will john list to all of them trying to bypass nature nation propaganda and censorship. have now been killed in god's oven. john lists all around the globe and the whole of world war 2. and yet to washington and the client, europe, and states continued to back. israel now facing genocide charges initiated by south africa and backed by the arab league at the international court of justice. the by the ministration is being bypassing congress to approve weapons sales, to kill the children of garza. and in tandem with britain, both backing israel strikes in jerusalem and on levon and syria and iraq, they have a really bombarded the world's poor as country human, which defective sanctioned israel in shipping and supportive un resolutions one, palestine. joining me now from roman italy is for my british diplomat allister crook. he was once middle east advisor to the army and unions, foreign policy chief and his not director of the baby based conflicts for him. thank you so much for coming back. i was so happy new year, obviously not happy with it. yeah. yeah. it's the only thing going to happen with

you. yeah. for many people. so i'm not quite sure if the shed you'll attendance of beside the foreign minister up in spiteful is about gaza. human or ukraine, these scheduled to meet you foreign ministers in brussels. how alienated from the world of the us? you nato allies. off to 4 percent of gauze, this population is now dead, disappeared or wounded, a completely divorced, completely divorced. so ho, particularly the middle east is boiling with and they see these images every day. and they say children that are dead and they see bones folding very sees a rubble pulling people out of the rubble. i mean it's, it's perfect. it's disgusting. and so they have furious costs, the middle east, and in the global south as well. i mean, it is a, is actually stirring up a very strong, sort of antique colonial issue like sentiment besides that. so when you talk

about the international court of a, to a section, then in the aid from many and the global side of it is who's also you're up in america in the west that song on trial as well, for well, for what's happening in gossip. i mean, is for pace right across it's is creating something really quite important. i believe in terms of a new sentiment, sentiment of, you know, we finished with the groaning, so we finished with a lot of this hedge and what makes the rules, or we want to be solved for and we want to be independent. obviously the court, some people in the go was out believe was on the trial as well after it has been seen by so much of humanity as a goal to, for the hedge fund. as you put in, come to think of it. the gold is in the netherlands, which gave it's backing. i've never heard of the netherlands, a navy, a,

a gates backing for the strikes by britain in the united states only em yes, i mean, that's right. i mean, but in fact, i mean, i think we should understand that it was actually a vote against it by most western states. i mean, it's away from spain. all said, no, we're not joining this person, of course was the front of the queue. so i guess we're ready for it and we'd like to join. but uh no, i don't think we're going to see this is a great success and mattress packed. and it's also a sort of for all the puzzling because i don't think it a chief tennessee. in fact, i had one person one come and take it courted her reputed missile strikes. i mean, it's nice to know that that's supposed to be therapeutic. you might be trying that on the gossip, but i mean, the therapeutic strikes. i think what he means and what the commentator was trying

to suggest is, you know, again, this is the west trying to send a message. now, what's the message? i think it's quite complicated because quite can be this conflict with israel at the center of it. these walls is abide to become more intense. it's already wide, but it's going to become i think, significantly more intense in the coming days. a that's it. i think means that there is homeless, that israel, unless something intervenes unexpected, is going to try and push has bullet back across the river on the autonomy. oh hey. most of the time the us envoy fell to get any political agreement. and the israelis have said repeatedly that they have all these displaced. um is riley's in hotels on the dead sea and they've got to go home and that means it has pulled, it has to be pushed behind the atomic. let me just say that makes no political

military sense because of course, you know, has bullets ms. also not confined to the 28 kilometers between the lead time a and the blue line of the size of less than that. i mean, they haven't immediately long range missile, so it doesn't really make much ministry sense anyway. but as far as ro, once that spot america's given the green light to it. so what i think is really happening is that in a sense um, we sold to begin with, the object of the white house was ready to contain the conflict of costs to contain it within garza. and to give this all pretty well a free hand to try and eliminate how much to say describe it in gaza, but they didn't want it to expand it clearly. now they are coming to the conclusion . it is going to expand very likely. and that is um, into lebanon. and so i think now what they're trying to do is sort of send messages

to iran to iraq. and they've been strengthening very strongly in recent days to sort of sites look, you know, we don't want to wall with you. but don't campbell, don't allow this to become more intense, don't allow the war to widen. because i don't think the united states once the war with iraq, they understand that that is a bridge to fall. but they wanted to make sure of that. so that trying to attempt bit down in iraq and in syria in him. yeah. and then i think that was really the purpose of these miss hall attacks was sending a message to help. i mean, i don't think it was a very convincing message. well, i think some people would say they said too much, alex, what they did is send a message to me. uh that uh, international shipping and commodities are more valuable than the children of garza and the premiums have gone up. they must have known that was going to be retaliation is not going to make premiums go down and then close the on your point

about as well or. and of course, in the past few days, iran has conducted these strikes and focused on and, and iraq and syria. do you not think that every and it will surprise you as buller? some people in resistance movements in the region may be wondering whether there's a bit of bluff that's been going on since the victories of as well. that does have $11.92 and so on. they don't really reacting and some people saying, you know, we're on is attacking these most ad headquarters. you know, in groups like this, it should be doing more human. does, you know, i disagree imposing. i think both ways saying here is there was an agreement to amongst the front, the actors, the access to the, for systems for whatever you want to call it the, the, this stage to this process that we're in the moment this conflict would be by

consent that all the parties would consent to it, but then they would be free to do what they thought was necessary once it to be clear. it was, oh, is this? it was a desire to avoid the sliding into a major war where we're going to see nation states all their infrastructure destroyed by bombing from the united states or from israel like we've seen happen in gaza. so the i'm was always to protect the nation, states itself, the structure of the nation state. and that would be the, if you like the, the share of the act is like has buller and the unsolved law would be in the, at the front. and the nation state would be if, as much as possible, the pep dogs to have it so that it didn't slip into a major war. and the 2nd part of it, to the end of a sudden, australia made this very clear and is the speech. she said,

we're only gonna really get involved if we believe that how mazda is in trouble is about to, to lose it straight. and that's not happening. and he did say this time and we saw a lot more beta who speaks for some, but grace was saying, look, we've reached a 100 days, is time to increase the intensity. now this is a very calibrated process because you know, step by step up the ladder so that it doesn't, if you like, bring again bowl to the middle east and destroy many people's because underscore needlessly the infrastructure of states and send us all back even tend to us, so i think it's very tacitly calibrated, and now we've moved to a period of greater intensity. we saw that they were on the striking base and focused on and in the rock. and indeed the rock is striking into syria and against

american bases in iraq. they were striking at murray some basis in syria to actually make the so yes, we're in the. yeah, it is american auto pine troops. yeah, no, no pets. these are income. i'm i that may be clear to those who live in the global south and bricks, nations and shanghai corporation organization countries. but you began actually by talking about the risk imagery coming from gaza censorship in uh, west and your advisor was going to just quickly talk about less than your given you were the advisor to the foreign policy. chief of the 6 crime allegations have been headed, baby stories, and they just sort of disappeared. i think a lot of to a lot of people who accosting doubts on them from the original attacks that last year as of on demand as already said, thomas alone is responsible for what is happening. some of the support for is there any genocide from the council of your political committee?

they all going to discuss this. apparently it was the end of this month. clear that west in your uh could be co conspirators in any conviction for genocide of the i. c, j i, yes, i mean, this is a style of your up now and of america. the, you know, the, the main myth of the west that somehow we are culturally superior that we've inherited those from greek sold. and the, the for, you know, we have the right, the mandate lead the well is over. and the west, most of the states just don't accept that. we all somehow have this election to leadership. and so we see ball or west is fix to a narrative. it tries to get the winning narrative. well my husband is we have the winning narrative and they have a 20 narrative which is not as good. and we repeat how narrative from the top to

the very bottom, and every one, let's say the same, same narrative. of course, what's happened in, in a rock in ukraine and elsewhere is, you know, is that not or has been sold has descended into deception into a blatant lag on the part of the west pride trying to sustain these merits. it's the so they say all these things, and of course everyone understands no when they say, as of on demand, i think that russia is losing a new crate. i mean, it's our nonsense that for you know long, but the says this is jessica, magical thinking. so this is i, i mean, i think this is the case that we but we are suffering across the board. so all these things, garza, ukraine, all of this, we must support the narrative. otherwise the west is finish because it's mrs.

deteriorating is frank mentee. and if it also loses the narrative, then well over it's done. well, maybe that's what's coming anyway. maybe it'll be quite good for the west to go through the process of cut the losses and to try and regenerate itself in a new way. in this new year it will be not easy, not fun, but nonetheless, i think the west is so much in the, in the state of decline and deterioration that we do need some form of a sausage, something to college, of which some green shoes possibly come the much caustic work, i'll stop you. the more from the former advisor, a middle east issues to e foreign policy. if you have a savannah after this break, the show seemed wrong. just don't

have to shape out the application and engagement because the trail when so many find themselves will support. we choose to look so common ground, the the name of the this of them. but he's like, i'm on the see at the end of this, i guess i didn't mall what had a little more of a school. i thought of it either. i won't say that it's not a lot of blood that is somewhat of the a media blast. yeah. you got one way just under then use it in video sort of the song of a k. i knew i love it. so it goes to that. i mean, i think you can only go see, i'm a persona of a will not be that many part by that i, i didn't go don't get almost the end to see that. but so that sort of i that out of in, to see if they have and the single method of some of the manual. and all that into model is there's a main dimension on it. be just a model units off on, you know,

the system just likes it and say i getting of them. but these are, let's see, let me look to see like tennessee, by the video in and out of a sec that on so being at that point i see on there the most to the boss, i need to see, i'm the and he said he had been in the meeting with jimmy, and so those new battery needs be what somebody that guess i'm giving which i'm i press the ok. so you see the goals in a 2nd? i mean either it is by you say no, i think it's like that. and then jerry, i'm going to, i think the end of this in the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with i was to grow, pull the british diplomatic founder and current director of the baby based conflict for him

a how so you were i don't know whether you're trying to ingram she that because you're in a truly about the new is yet to be born and the, the end part one. since i'm speaking to you from the middle east though, and clearly it's being watch the death of the old, the very close to be here. the response from saudi arabia in the u. a has to be new orleans to clearly given rep rushmore with their on and syria. and what happened before you m a now has the right to self defense under the u. n. john, clearly whereas israel has no right of self defense, of course human has the right of self defense. israel doesn't. uh well, what's the likelihood of the us trying to use the lines you that remembered saudi arabia guitar you basis to launch then next to british and american ask strikes on the i'm and i think it's highly unlikely because i don't think that any of the states really are looking for a resumption of the conflict with some unsolved and am

a recall that they will salsa day will being recipients of miss on a tax from a young man as various times when they crossed the red line. as far as the m a niece concerned. so i think, as i say, you know, the understanding of the resistance access is that it is not to cause a big more. it's not to destroy people's economy. it is a slow if you like, squeezing all the israel and the united states to the point at which they have to stall in gaza. and it's also about changing the power to breaking the whole power. but just to underline that, i know that iran, for example, which is a sort of principle in the resistance texas and sits in the sort of the, the control room for the c opperation office office sent for it. i mean, is,

was consulting and reassuring sign. the reagan and making sure it's not in intro, it is not in the runs interest, it's not in saudi arabia's interest to have its own energy infrastructure destroyed . neither of them. and so i don't think there's really any likelihood that that's going to have those communication then. but how a goest must badging be looking at the destruction of world trade routes, which are going to be, was sent by these british and american as strikes? not of somehow things are going to be best for the chinese economy because of this . and of course, for exports from the persian gulf and gcc as well. so what you're saying there is communication, but that kind of powerless to stop written in the united states, lessening this crisis escalated. i don't think, i mean china of course is watching. i mean, i think, you know, they have

a long term vision and so they can see that what's going to come out of this is a new global holder. and is going to be a global order in which china and russia are good to have a big se. so i don't think that that responsible to box it. but the other thing is that there are new trade routes. opening the all big group is opening. there are other routes, trade routes, dropping the north south car doors opening up. there are a lot of things that are open make that were intended. oh. as from the beginning to sort of less of the couple a little bit from the cities come out. i'm from the show, the points which the west sits, all so i don't think no, i think they understand what's going on perfectly well. i mean, they'll be some people who have something else. but as far as i understand, you know, if it's chinese vessels who are not landing in israel, or if it's fresh and bustle. supposing to the red sea on hand, i mean clearly scandinavian members of nato in the wake of the ukraine. that was

part of the american response to those arctic roots then. but then what about mahmoud abbas, who sits there in jerusalem? we've seen this arithmetic situation in the west bank and in jerusalem is american protection of a boss. all it is really stopping the why is us not being killed? i to you to know. all i can say is i think it's of westbank is on the brink of explosion, which could have it's already on the knife edge, the tension there is huge. and i don't know, and is it american protection? i don't know. i imagine it just, i imagine is protected because he's not useful for the americans and for the west. but if i mean, he is completely ignored and disliked by 90 percent of the palestinians. so, i mean, he's the relevant, it's not really important. i mean, with a,

he sits in the mikado, not, i mean, it's not something worthy to waste much time on. and as for the censorship in western europe and to american populations, maybe there's less sense as you back from united states because it seems to me that the demonstrations a bigger there for valid students all a direct even there are in the west and you're a double us had the whole session on information wolf or is it and they'd be getting to fail the big silicon valley of censorship organizations, high tech censorship organizations. are they as the palestine managed to break through the censor? i'm not entirely, i mean, you know, sitting here and in europe in western europe. i mean the, the, the 1st day of the course of justice and the hey, was not covered by western media main street media. i mean bbc sky. they ignored it and concentrated only on it and return to it only on the

2nd day when israel was presenting its defense. so it is still very much everything is locked on. you're not allowed to refer to the south african case that they might have very coaching the i might say from the, particularly from the the, the irish lawyer. she was fantastic. and she argued on live on legal tops, which was really important and not just diverse. it into sort of solely emotional feelings. yeah. but thinking state department, when they were just, i mean they didn't deny it about being worried that they could be done for co conspirators. what happens then? i mean, i mean, i suppose the district would have just as has shown such pos shallots in previous years of its existence. can you really,

can we foresee blinking bus me being held liable along with joe biden for aging genocide? and can we see countries like britain and astray? leah being told that they failed in their obligations to prevent genocide. i think, you know, the, i think there are 2 aspects here. i mean quite clearly. um, you know, we've had problems with what is a criminal act in terms of the lowest of the war vices for me, of cause and apparently western states if you like, come involved in that and we have the same with the genocide case. no, i think so. as i understand it, they, it's a majority both when it comes, but it might be some time to comes something. so it could be a cellphone or something like that or not. and i don't think we're gonna see

america in the adult somehow. they still have a privileged and exception this position, even though they're not positive. i mean, you are advisor to the foreign policy to have your equipment. and i mean, you'd be advising joseph beretta and i don't know whether you'd be thinking, preparing to, you know, be done for trends as i guess you'd be advising that you form policy to once a situation i, i will be saying that the, the european position on what is happening in casa is atrocious, and is entirely wrong. and they need to understand they can simply stand by that position that we stand with israel and read every single phase of context as if you know, the, the incident. what happened only has happened on the 7th of october, and there was no before and no wide uh, context of this. this was just something that, you know, that was done by

a small group. and the time they attribute it like this is the same thing. they do, and you crazy. you know, russia southern movie illegally, the heart, decided to invade, you print as it still was no history as a snow was in the background. there was no 2014, there was no, my movement include data. i mean, this is, this is how they do politics. it and they, it has consequences because the consequences that they don't see a big pond here. what the rest of the world is saying to them, because they say no, no, this is in there. this is what happens. we system, this is a narrative. no, there's no question. there's no other. there's no other any of these exercises. this is american. but when you do that, you can't hear, you, you, you lost the ability to, to emphasize or listen to what other people are saying. they come even listen to what the russians say anymore. no, no, no, we don't,

yours lie. we don't pay any attention to what you say. i should say that i, i follow to exactly. i started by saying, well john list were killed in gaza. so farther than the whole of world war 2 gonzalo lira the us john, this, the state department appears not to have helped us to, i'm less money advisor lensky is a torturer, is a. so is a p as rooms a, because i don't, there is a parents indicative of, of how little the united states protects us citizens if they go against the narrative and dangerous for us nationals around the world. if they do is not agree with us, you know, i mean, of course. so gonzalez, it was least so, but for, i think all generous and indeed all people who comment and say things truthfully, with any integrity, are at risk. yes. i mean, here and euro. i mean, you know,

you can be cancelled, you can be penalized in many ways. or the most of this one is that you'll just me a, with somebody negation, usually a navigation that's of a sexual nature in order to damage your reputation for good. so, i mean, this is, and in fact, um the whole of the, of ups, the main topic, the paper that they sent out was how dangerous it is. and we must do more to stop this information. i mean, it's mentioned time and time again about how what the main focus must be. how do we 40 percent of the was the population we're going to election this year and only 10 percent chance of them getting it right. and therefore, we must, all this information on mile information from taking root. well, i think that's so name of the so many, many will be hoping that uh, yeah, judy is on his case. uh that comes in february is more important than those people

in davos just finally then. so the way you're talking, i mean, by the end of 2024, then complete the feeds violent from nato and ukraine and nicholas tail made still in british media. right. and it's already happened and it's happened, i mean, maybe incomplete, the defeated. but what about china? they gonna desperately start going into the slab, trying to see what they're going to be too frightened and more concentrating on the us elections as a, he's up. as you know, china is in a different position from russia because china is a big trading country. and you know, it's one some lesson. so, i mean, i was in russia recently and you know, there are no channels of communication with russia. i was told that the vice level that, you know, there's nothing they treat us like the enemy, they just need eric. that's, and i think china looks at this, and it has no illusions about to unite with the united states even whether you know,

english and support the united states in china. but the same time, they don't want to get into that position where you know all the channels of communication arcot because they are a big trading nation and they've got different interest rusher, understands that china are on the stand side. but they still work very closely together. as a good, thank you and that's it for the show. i'll continue condolences to those very by the u. k. u. s. back slaughter and guys, and we'll be back with a brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch 5 or less as a media. if it's all tents and in your country and add to that channel going under warranty, the normal don't come to what's new and old episodes of going undergrad sees after the hello and welcome to the cross stuff full born here we discussed some real in

the disturbing images from the capital city, other than the republic where 27 civilians are killed and 25 wounded. as ukraine shows, a busy mach kids on sunday morning. the bush at last has alta gemini, for intervening on israel's be off. on the genocide case of africa is taken to the international court of justice. also this so we have from a published and you and now living in jerry and about how he's relatives office drawings and surviving gaza. us on that already be killed, vice ready for more than 25 minutes. my house is gone. my father also as you see where we are on the.