the, the i'm action or times you're welcome back to a brand new season of going underground rule, gusting all around the world from to buying the honda of them, at least over 100 days have passed since the onset of young the american back to more ongoing so 65000 tons of bonds, 3 times the power of hiroshima have now killed at least 24000 palestinians, mostly women and children. will john list to all of them trying to bypass nature. a nation propaganda and censorship have now been killed in god's oven. john lists all around the globe and the whole of world war 2. and yet to washington and that kind europe and states continued to back. israel now facing genocide charges initiated by south africa and backed by the arab league at the international court of justice . the by the ministration is being bypassing congress to approve weapons sales to

kill the children of garza. and in tandem with britain, both backing israel strikes in jerusalem and 11 in syria and iraq, they have a really bombarded the world's poor as country human, which defective sanctioned israel in shipping and supportive un resolutions on palestine. joining me now from roman italy is for my british diplomat allister crook. he was once middle east advisor to the army and unions, foreign policy chief and is not director of the baby based conflicts for him. thank you so much for coming back. i was so happy new year, obviously. not happy with it. yeah. yeah. as long as you're going to have the view . yeah. for many people. so i'm not quite sure if the schedule attendance of, beside the foreign minister up in spiteful is about garza human or ukraine. these scheduled to meet you foreign ministers in brussels. how alienated from the world of the us, you nato allies of to 4 percent of gods. this population is now dead, disappeared or wounded, are completely divorced, completely divorced. so ho,

particularly the middle east is boiling with and they see these images every day. and they say children that are dead and they see bones falling very see the rubble pulling people out of the rubble. i mean it's, it's perfect. it's disgusting. and so they have furious costs, the middle east, and in the global south as well. i mean, it is a, is actually stirring up a very strong, sort of antique colonial issue like sentiment besides that. so when you talk about the international court of a, to a section, then in the hague, from many, and the global sizes is who's also you're up in america in the west that song on trial as well, for, or for what's happening and gossip. i mean, it's a straight across, it's is creating something really quite important,

i believe in terms of a new cents a month and cents a month of, you know, we finished with growing some. we finished with a lot of this hedge and we make the rules or we want to be solved for and we want to be independent. obviously the court, some people in the go was out believe was under trial as well after it has been seen by so much of humanity as a cool to for the hedge fund. as you put in, come to think of it. the gold is in the netherlands, which gave it's backing. i've never heard of the netherlands, a navy, a gates backing for the strikes by britain in the united states only em yes, i mean, that's right. i mean, but in fact, i mean, i think we should understand that it was actually a vote against it by most western states. i mean, it's away from spain. all said, no one, not joining this person, of course was at the front of the queue. so i guess we're ready for it and we'd

like to join. but uh no, i don't think we're gonna see this is a great success and mattress packed. and it's also a sort of for all the puzzling because i don't think it a chief tennessee. in fact, i had one person, one commentate had quoted her reputed missile strikes. i mean, it's nice to know that that's supposed to be therapeutic you might be trying that on the gossip. but i mean, the therapeutic strikes. i think what he means and what the commentator was trying to suggest is, you know, again, this is the west kind of send a message. now, what's the message? i think it's quite complicated because quite can be this conflict with israel at the center of it. these walls is about to become more intense. it's already wide, but it's going to become, i think, significantly more intense in the coming days. a dresser,

i think means that there is homeless. that israel, unless something intervenes unexpected, is going to try and push has bullet back across the river and economy. the hey, most of the time the us and for fail to get any political agreement. and this really is a said repeatedly that they have all these displaced. um is riley's in hotels on the dead sea and they've got to go home and that means that has pulled out has to be pushed behind the atomic. let me just say that makes no political military sense because of course, you know, uh, has bullets miss house and not confined to the 28 kilometers between the lead time a and the blue line of the size of let them know. i mean, they have intermediates long range missile, so it doesn't really make much military sense anyway. but as far as ro, once that support america has given the green light to it. so what i think is really happening is that in

a sense we sold to begin with the object of the white house was ready to contain the conflict of gauze to contain it within gaza. and to give israel pretty what a free hand to try and eliminate how much to say describe it in garza, but they didn't want it to expand it clearly. now they are coming to the conclusion . it is going to expand very likely. and that is going to lever. and so i think now what they're trying to do is sort of send messages to iran to iraq when they've been strengthening very strongly in recent days. to sort of say, look, you know, we don't want to wall with you. but don't campbell don't allow us to become more intense, don't allow the war to whiten. because i don't think the united states once a war with iraq, they understand that that is a bridge to fall. but they wanted to make sure of that. so that trying to attempt

big down in iraq and in syria in the, in the month. and i think that was really the purpose of these miss hall attacks was sending a message to help. i mean, i don't think it was a very convincing message. well, i think some people would say they said that what they did is send a message to me uh that uh, international shipping and commodities are more valuable than with children of gaza . and the premiums have gone up. they must have known that was going to be retaliation is not going to make premiums go down and then close the on your point about as we'll learn. of course, in the past few days, iran has conducted these strikes into pakistan and, and the rock in syria. do you not think that every and it will surprise you as well the some people in resistance movements in the region may be wondering whether there's a bit of bluff that's been going on since the victories of his will just have 11 and 926 and so on, they don't really reacting and some people saying, you know,

we're on is attacking these the most ad headquarters, you know, in groups like this, it should be doing more human. does, you know, i disagree imposing. i think both ways saying here is there was an agreement amongst the front, the actors, the axis of resistance, whatever you want to call it the, the, this stage, this process that were in the moment this conflict would be by consent that all of the parties would consent to it, but then they would be free to do what they thought was necessary once it to be clear. it was, oh, is this? it was a desire to avoid the sliding into a major war where we're going to see nation states all their infrastructure destroyed by bombing from the united states or from israel like we've seen happen in gaza. so the i'm was always to protect the nation, states itself,

the structure of the nation state. and that would be the if you like the, the share of the actors like has buller and the unsolved law would be in the, at the front. and the nation state would be if, as much as possible, kept officers of it so that it didn't slip into a major war. and the 2nd part of it, to the end of a sudden, australia made this very clear and is 1st speech. she said, we're only gonna really get involved if we believe that how mazda is in trouble, is about to, to lose it straight. and that's not happening. and he did say this time and we, so i boy beta who speaks for some, but graves was saying, look, we've reached a 100 days, is time to increase the intensity. now this is a very calibrated process because you know,

step by step up the ladder. so that it doesn't, if you like, bring again bowl to the middle east and destroy many people's was underscore needlessly the infrastructure of states and send us whole back, you know, tend to us. so i think is very tacitly calibration. and now we've moved to a period of greater intensity. we saw that they were on the striking base and purchased on and in the rock. and indeed the rock is striking into syria and against american bases in iraq. they were striking at murray from bases and syria to actually make yeah. so yes, we're in the. yeah, it is american auto pine troops. yeah, no, no pets. these are income i, i, that may be clear to those who live in the global south and bricks, nations and shanghai corporation, organization countries. but you began actually by talking about the rhetoric imagery coming from gaza censorship in uh,

west and your advisor was going to just quickly talk about wes in your given you would advise it to the foreign policy. chief of the 6 crime allegations have been headed baby stories, and they just sort of disappeared. i think after a lot of people were costing doubts on them from the original attacks that last year. let's move on to land. as already said, thomas alone is responsible for what is happening. some of the support for is there any genocide from the council of your political committee? they all going to discuss it. apparently it was the end of this month. clear that west in your uh, could be co conspirators in any conviction for genocide at the i. c, j i. yes, i mean, this is the style of europe now and of america. the, you know, the, the main midst of the west, that somehow we are culturally superior that we've inherited those from greek

sold. and the, the for, you know, we have the right, the mandate to lead the well is over. and the west, most of the states just don't accept that. we all somehow have this election to leadership. and so we see ball or west is fix to a narrative. it tries to get the winning narrative. well, my has is we have the winning narrative and they have a 20 narrative which is not as good. and we repeat how narrative from the top to the very bottom, and every one, let's say the same, same narrative. of course, what's happened in, in a rock in ukraine and elsewhere is, you know, is that not or to have been sold has to send it into deception and to blake, like on the part of the west pride trying to sustain these merits. it's the so they

say all these things, and of course everyone understands, you know, when they say, as of on demand, i think, said a rush who is losing a new crate. i mean, it's, are not something that you know long, but the says this is just kind of magical thinking. so this is, i, i mean, i think this is the case that we, the, we are suffering across the board. so all these things, casa ukraine, all of this, we must support the narrative. otherwise the west is finish because it's mrs. deteriorating is frank mentoring. and if it also loses the narrative, then where over it's done. well, maybe that's what's coming anyway. maybe you'll be quite good for the west to go through the process cuts losses and to try and regenerate itself in a new way. in this new year. it will be not easy, not fun. but nonetheless, i think the west is so much in the, in the state of the klein and terry issue that we do need some form of cause us,

it's something to call to of which some green shoes possibly can a much talusick work. i'll stop you. the more from the former advisor, a middle east issues to e foreign policy. if you have a savannah after this break, the show seemed wrong. just don't you have to shape house to come after kids and engagement trails. when so many find themselves worlds of parts, we choose to look for common ground, the the

welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with that was to grow. well, the british diplomats and founder and current director of the baby base conflicts for him. a how so you were i don't know whether your child ingram. she that because you're in the, it's really about the new is yet to be born and the, the end part one. since i'm speaking of you from the middle east though, and clearly it's being watch the death of the old, the very close the here. the response from saudi arabia in the u. a has to be new orleans to clearly given rep rushmore with their on and syria. and what happened before you m a now has the right to self defense under the u. n. john, clearly whereas israel has no right of self defense, of course human has the right of self defense. israel doesn't. uh well, what's the likelihood of the us trying to use the united? i remembered saudi arabia guitar, you basis to launch then next to british and american ask strikes on the i'm and i

think it's highly unlikely because i don't think that any of the states really are looking for a resumption of the conflict with some unsolved and am a recall the table sofa table being recipients miss on a tax from a young man as various times when they crossed the red line as far as the m a niece concerned. so i think as i say, you know, the understanding of the resistance axis is that it is not to cause a big more, it's not to destroy people's economy. it is a slow, if you like squeezing of the israel and the united states to the point to which they have to stall and gossip. and it's also about changing the power to breaking the whole power into. but just to underline that,

i know that iran, for example, which is a sort of principle in the resistance texas and sits in the sort of the, the control room for the see operation office of center for it. i mean this boy's consulting and reassuring side here, right. and making sure it's not in intro. it is not in the ron's interest, it's not in saudi arabia's interest to have its own energy infrastructure destroyed . neither of them. and so i don't think there's really any likelihood that that's going to happen, but it's communication then. but how a goest must badging be looking at the destruction of world trade routes, which are going to be worse than to buy these british and american as strikes? not of somehow things are going to be best for the chinese economy because of this . and of course, for exports from the persian gulf and gcc as well. so what you're saying there is

communication, but that kind of powerless to stop written in the united states, lessening this crisis escalated. i don't think, i mean china of course is watching. i mean, i think, you know, they have a long term vision and so they can see that what's going to come out of this is a new global holder. and it's going to be global order and which china and russia are good to have a big se. so i don't think that that responsible to box it. but the other thing is that there are new trade roads opening the all big group is opening. there are other routes, trade routes dropping to north south card or is opening up. there are a lot of things that are open make that were intended. oh, as from the beginning to sort of less than the couple a little bit from the cities canal, i'm from the show, the points which the west sits. all so i don't think no, i think they understand what's going on perfectly well. i mean,

they'll be some people who have something else, but as far as i understand, you know, if it's chinese vessels who are not landing in israel or if it's fresh and vessels that buzzing through the red sea on hand. i mean, clearly scandinavian members of nato in the wake of the ukraine, that was part of the american response to it. and so those optic roots then, but then what about mahmoud abbas, who sits there in jerusalem? we've seen this arithmetic situation in the west bank and in jerusalem is american protection of a bus all. it is really stopping the why is us not being killed? i don't or you don't know. so i can say is, i think the west bank is on the brink of explosion, which could have so rarely arms knife edge the attention. there is huge and i don't know. and is it american protection? i don't know. i imagine it just, i imagine is protected because he's not useful for the americans and for the west.

but i mean, he is completely ignored and dislike by 90 percent of the palestinians. so i mean, he's very relevant. it's not really important. i mean, whether he sits in the mikado, not, i mean, it's not something worthy to waste much time on. and as for the censorship in western europe and to american populations, maybe there's less then since you've actually in the united states, because it seems to me that the demonstrations a bigger there for about a student solid energy than there are in the west. and you are a java or sad level session on information wolf or is it. and they beginning to fail the big silicon valley of censorship, organizations, high tech censorship organizations. and they, as the palestine managed to break through the sense you as i'm not entirely, i mean, you know, sitting here and in europe in western europe. i mean the, the,

the 1st day of the culture of justice and the hey, was not covered by western media main street media. i mean b, b, c. so sky, they ignored it and concentrated only on it and returned to own me. on the 2nd day when israel was presenting its defense, so it is still very much everything is locked on. you're not allowed to refer to the south african case that they mounted very coach. and the i might say from the, particularly from the, the, the irish lawyer she was fantastic. and she argued on live on legal tops, which was really important and not just diverse, it into sort of solely emotional feelings. yeah. but lincoln state department when they were just, i mean they didn't deny it about being worried that they could be done for co

conspirators. what happens then? i mean, i mean, i suppose the generically just as is shown in such posh ality in previous years of its existence. can you really can we foresee blinking personally, being held liable along with joe biden for aging genocide? and can we see countries like britain in a stray? leah being told that they failed in their obligations to prevent genocide. i think you know that i think there are 2 aspects here. i mean quite clearly. so, you know, we've had problems with what is a criminal act in terms of the notice of the war by this bombing of cause and apparently western states, if you like, come involved in that and we have the same with the genocide case. now i think so as i understand it, they, it's

a majority both when it comes, but it might be some time kind of comes from. so it could be a cellphone or something like that or not. and i don't think we're going to see america in the adult somehow. they still have a privileged exception. this position, even though they're not positive, i mean, you are advisor to the foreign policy of your equipment. and i mean, you'd be advising joseph beretta and i don't know whether you'd be thinking, preparing to, you know, we've done the trend is, i guess you'd be advising that you form policy to what's the situation i, i will be saying that the, the european position on what is happening in casa is atrocious, and is entirely wrong. and they need to understand they can simply stand by that position that we stand with israel and read every single face context

as if you know, the, the incident. what happened only has happened on the 7th of october, and there was no before and no wide uh, context of this. this was just something that, you know, that was done by a small group. and the time they attribute it like this is the same thing. they do, and ukraine, you know, russia southern movie illegally, the heart, decided to invade, you print as it still was no history as this noise in the background. there was no 2040. there was no, my movement include a taught, i mean this is, this is how they do politics. it and that has consequences because the consequences that they don't see a big time here, what the rest of the world is saying to them. because they say no, no, this is an art. this is what happens when says, this is a narrative. no, there's no question. there's no of, there's no other any of these exercises. this is american. but when you do that,

you can't hear, you, you, you lost the ability to, to emphasize or listen to what other people are saying. they come even listen to what the russians say anymore. no, no, no, we don't, yours lie. we don't pay any attention to what you said. i should, i should say that i, i follow to exactly. i started by saying, well john list were killed in gaza. so farther than the whole of world war 2 gonzalgo lira, the us gen list, the state department appears not to have helped us to, i'm less money by zalinski is a torturer is a. so it's a p as rooms a, because i don't, there is a parents indicative of, uh, how little the united states protects us. citizens if they go against the narrative and dangerous for us nationals around the world. if they do a no, it'd be with us. you know, i mean, of course, so gonzalez, it was least so, but for,

i think all generous and indeed all people who comment and say things truthfully, with any integrity or risk. yes, i mean, here in the, in europe, i mean, you know, you can be cancelled. you can be penalized in many ways. or the most obvious one is that you'll just me a, with somebody negation, usually a navigation that's of a sexual nature in order to damage your reputation for good. so i mean, this is, and in fact, um, the whole of the, of the main topic, the paper that they sent out was how dangerous it is. and we must do more to stop this information. i mean, it's mentioned time and time again about how what the main focus must be. how do we 40 percent of that was the population we're going to election this year and only 10

percent chance of them getting it right. and therefore, we must, all this information on mile information from taking root. well, i think that's all name of the store. many, many will be hoping that, uh, yeah, judy is on his case. uh the comes in february is more important than those people that double. it's just finally then. so the way of talking, i mean, by the end of 2024, then complete defeats violent from nato and ukraine. nicholas tail made still in british media. right. then that's already happened and it's happened. i mean, maybe incomplete, the defeated. but what about china? they gonna desperately start going into the slab, trying to see what they're going to be too frightened and more concentrating on the u. s. selections, as a, he's up, as you know, china is in a different position from russia because china is a big trading country. and, you know, it's one some lesson. so, i mean, i was in russia recently and you know, there are no channels of communication with russia. i was told that the vice level

that, you know, there's nothing they treat us like the enemy, they just need eric. that's. and i think china looks at this, and it has no illusions about, do you not with united states and whether you know, english and support the united states in china. but the same time, they don't want to get into that position where you know, all the channels of communication. i'll talk because they are a big trading nation and they've got different interest rusher understands that china are on the stand side, but they still work very closely together as the correct. thank you and that's for the show. i'll continue condolences to those very by the u. k u. s. back souls here in garza, we'll be back with a brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch by roll i social media. if it's not tense and in your country and have to have channel going on the warranty, the normal don't come to what's new and old episodes of going underground. c sassik . the

look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings accept. we're such orders at conflict with the 1st law show you live in to the patient. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at the point, obviously is to create a trust rather than fit the job with artificial intelligence. we have somebody in the team and the robot most protects this phone. existence was alexis hello and welcome to the cross stuff for here we discussed some real in

the russian foreign minister, a circuit line prob, addresses the un security council about the latest do crating and attack on a donuts market. the emphasized that the blood of $27.00 civilians is on the hands of those 2 arm. there's an team, regina hospitals, and southern guys that come under intense is really attack all the red present ambulance center. it's around by idea of forces to hear about the dire medical situation in the enclave. we didn't have anything that can meet. they give us is killing us. there's no gas to cook. it, no need to add to it. all the basic necessities are expensive. the cheapest thing today is a human being.