or is this a view of the war and ukraine? i reiterated that i do not believe in the military solution to this conflict. your grains broad minister claimed an agreement was reached to allows the voc in companies to sell weapons to key. and that's outrage in ukrainian media for say that's key of would have to see territories to achieve peace. all of us know about the all fresh goals have in fact, the prime minister and criticized key of dependence on the western powers. just use the mass in 2014. after the my done ukraine became entirely controlled by the us. why did the russian president order the use of military force in ukraine? imagined mexico next to you with its defense minister and the entire political scene, including the president and the government under the full russian control. now imagine mexico joining a military organization where russia plays a decisive role. what would you do? and this argument is rational. you cream is not sovereign and is entirely under us

control. the counter offensive ended in failure and if it weren't for the money from the us and the you ukraine would not have survived even 2 weeks. ukrainians have nothing to be offended about for voc. yeah, helps them enormously and people are fed up with it. it leads to nowhere but poverty and death. earlier we spoke with the leader all before we're in a fast team for the republic, a political party in slovakia, my m juries who suggested that fee goes visit to ukraine is a balancing act up to his rhetoric. and yet many in the west, when we say about the meeting couples as like prime minister and the lice, i mean it's, this rhetoric is right. god, i see that was, it is what is it as a balancing act with the, with the which he wants to satisfy, not the only day of training and representatives but the, especially a semester and box semester and partners and western countries really pushing kids

governments true they will be in union to these institutions and so it has some kind of resolutions which can eventually and new to in some cases. also block inc also will think, writes of blog or blocking of your be in funds. so there will be a big pressure on these governments or sure, it is trying to sway them more to, to his sides through this symbol. it was, it was actually update this out. he can get more details on archie to come. i'll see you again in less than 30 minutes the the, [000:00:00;00]

the hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered on peter lavelle. it would seem, israel's war on gaza is changing everything. not least of all the west claim to moral leadership in the world. the so called rules based order has been shown to be a complete fraud. when there is a leadership vacuum, others will fill in the process of getting leadership decline. i'm joined by my guess, garland mix it in washington is a political analyst in new york. we have margaret kimberly. she's the executive editor of black agenda report and in monterey all recross and matthew everett. he is a senior fellow at the american university in moscow and director of the rising tide foundation of canada across type roles and effects. that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate garland,

let me go to you 1st here. when the by the administration came to power, it started banding about this phrase, rule space order, and then it got all of it. satellite underlings to repeat the same thing because of the complex, ongoing conflict in, in gods against where the war on god's these children. we should put it. and then of course the far it's called the ukraine war. where is that rules based order? i can, i can find it. i don't know who it is. and whoever invented it should be just disappeared from public life. garland. yeah, it's simple. it's simply, i'm an american to germany, unbridled power, the law of the jungle, and it's being exposed. it was always the same. built that kind of rhetoric is generally used internally to convince the people who are supporting imperialism, that they're doing the right thing. and that it is, you know, of benevolent form of imperialism, the people of the global south, the people who have suffered from these uh, you know,

constant wars and the machinations of domination were very, very aware of the reality of the rules based, or we'll say, a site essentially the same question to margaret here and by extension here, the rule space order with some kind of moral supremacy. i don't see any of that now . as a matter of fact, i see a morality deficit in n a and, and it's in stark relief now considering what we can see in real time, what's going on in gaza here. where is the leadership here? when you have countries say, oh well, you know, makes the claim like south africa has a genocide is being committed in gaza and then you have all these western capital say, well it doesn't look like 10 is like to me. well that isn't genocide. what is it, margaret? as well as the point here is that genocide was defined by the united nations in the late forties. there is a genocide convention. israel is a signatory, so if not anyone's opinion about what is or is it genocide,

this definition has been accepted for more than 70 years. and you can't now say, well, this isn't genocide, especially when netanyahu and other is really officials openly publicly brag about doing things that are by definition, war crimes that are, by definition genocide. i mean, i can't think of a worst country to try to vouch for, frankly, but the rules based order just means the rules for me not for the. and this is a situation where in with this terrible lack of leadership, which has hurt the u. s. which has hurt is real, but we are not talking about people. you said there's a morality deficit. i think there's an intelligent death to say like, i can't recall a more incompetent administration. and that is something okay. and then saying something here. the main, so you booked today, matthew, you know, we have

a newly minted a french foreign minister and he essentially, and i'm paraphrasing here, said the israel, it's not possible for israel to commit genocide because it's israel. this is the lack of intelligence that mark or just touched on. go ahead, matthew. yeah, it is becoming very difficult for the year of most people in the, in the entire world outside of the united states, including americans themselves, tv sir, this type of, of rhetoric and people in europe where there is such an obvious disregard for the concerns of what the people actually want you have farmers across in germany, across the other one. and now in france, who are really fighting for their lives, because they can see that their government is, is, this is, and i'm, if you're talking about all of europe, all of north america is animated by an ideology that wants to destroy their livelihoods, their means of existence and that's not very democratic, but they are being told, these are the democratic governments that are supposed to represent freedom while they hear these leaders who want to kill them and destroy their livelihoods, to shut down carbon production or, or fertilizer used for these weird abstract limits say things like this,

but in that israel or another nation which is which believes that there's some sort of a divine right to was to have some greater is real. endowed by the creator and some weird covenants 6000 years ago that they can do whatever they want. they cannot do genocide because of that fact. it's very did this in chatting and i think a lot of people are being uh, are, are, are having difficult time receiving these messages. yeah. so my, i think all of us are, that's why we're doing this program here. you know, garland, you know, and i look at some of the main broad seats and magazines like permit the co comes to mind here. they never, uh they ceaselessly talking about right wing groups right. wing revenue radical right away. well, they might be right wing, they might be just different than the status quo. we could debate that, and that's a well worth the debate here. but, you know, the, the west is supporting a supremacist regime in q of and in, in israel, lino zionism is openly racist. it's a premises. and, and, and of course, you know,

we have these elements in ukraine that you and i have talked about for years. they were there, they're recognizable, even the new york times talks about it lamentably, but they do recognize it here. what does that tell you about? i'm a western values about tolerance and diversity and all about it. it's all put to a sham garland. yeah. and i think what people are coming to realize is there is a, a big difference between the values and principles of the people in the west and the values and the principles of the ruling elite, the ruling, the lead have lost their legitimacy throughout the world. and amongst the people and their own nations, that's why the people are, are in the streets. the farmers are in the streets. the people are upsets. jo biden's support is collapsing amongst his own parties, constituencies. and trump is the, you know, a very strange and i'd say a year, but he's pretty much looks to be winning in a blow out because the people are figuring it out. and the divided ministrations of the ruling elite are now isolated in the world. they're isolated at the you in and

they are actually isolated from their own people, or a theory is that the, their government no longer has any concern whatsoever for their personal needs. walter garland, just to extend a palm that here, if you think about, and i'm glad you bring up the farmers in europe. the farmers also in america, you know, what we have is we have the ruling elite, the dest punches down, over and over again, against the power less, you know, there, these people are considered a threat, but they're the ones that have the least amount of power. there's no iron need there, go ahead, garland know, and if you, in the same way that there are some isolated birth, both externally and internally in the, in the empire. they are at war with the world. they're saying to everyone, you know, the world we're trying to stop us from ruling everything we can't do it. and they're saying to their people, we're afraid of internal authorizing. and so we have to sense are our own people this, that whole davos business about censorship being the most important thing simply exposes that they write more with their own citizens and they don't what their citizens have a discussion about what they're really doing. margaret,

i see you nodding your head. so i think your reaction to a garland site to be better than any question i could ask. you, go ahead as well. i think it's very obvious. garland is quite correct. uh, these are people who see they see the people they are supposed to be governing as enemies. they want us to shut up. they want us to go along it, you know, it could be people being censored and what they say about is real, but it could be any number of things. some of these platforms, as we all know, sensor people. we have a situation where at and here in the us now everyone talks on and on and on about democracy. they do not believe in democracy. they do not want the people to have a voice. that is the last thing they want to see. we have a situation where the democrats are said, we're not going to have any primaries at all. we're just gonna let by the coast through. so he can lose in a blow out,

assuming of course they don't get the last minute pull a switch and pick somebody else. but there's not even a pretense of democracy, not even a pretense that they want the people to be heard from. that is the last thing they really want. well, you know, margaret, there's still another option here and i don't want to be melodramatic, but just don't have an election like an ukraine. okay. it's a weird these extraordinary times. i think there's basically this calendar year is going to be unprecedented in unprecedented events. matthew, one of the interest things we're talking about, the division between the leads and the, and the people and, and margaret is already brought up by joe biden here. biden has chosen his donors over the people, even his own people in his own party. matthew. yeah, no, i mean the, the entire agenda that's estimated the democratic machinery, the democratic party machinery is very different based on what it was. and at the time of, of john f. kennedy bobby kennedy with martin luther king, which had a, a very different vibe to and i think a lot of people still have

a sort of romantic view of what they think the democratic party was. and they try to, you know, pick and choose elements of what they hear, abiding, or bernie sanders or something say that reflects something that they remember in their vague memory as being something that would have been said by a kennedy past. but this is, this is long past the matthew john f. kennedy today would be a republican, maybe a liberal republican, but he probably wouldn't be, i'm sorry to interrupt, keep going. yeah. and, and so with martin luther king junior, for that matter. and i, i think that if you, if you think about it, if people are just unwilling to recognize the evil which has taken over like a virus and taking control of many of the, of both parties as far as i could see, there are outliers, outliers within parties but the parties themselves had been taken over by institutions that are tied to this global is difficult, which had been represented in america by the council on foreign relations for over a century and other different branches of this, this thing, this, this oligarchical apparatus that has wanted to undo the american, essentially the american constitution as something which has any meaning or weight

in the world, let alone in america, and especially bring about a restoration of an empire of, of, of, of the very thing that the american founding fathers ironically bought so far to boy, are you from and to or, or just accept the oligarchy that we have. okay. and the oligarchy has exemptions. so i think that's really what it is here because they'll just put in a constitutional amendments to solidify their rule. i mean, i, it's, they'll get it. there's so many different avenues here. what most importantly is they want to deny be the individual individual rights, which is the binding, the ministration. it says that's the world is divided between democracy in a and it's opposite. you know, it's a leads and everybody else, matthew, you know, you're right in and i mean that's the thing. there is john adams, who is, who said a long time ago that america, it is a need, a new type, a new type of nation. but he only worked in a moral and religious society, but he is fully unfit for any other type of society. so if you don't have people who are internally moral in are guided by their collections,

you can't have citizens, you love subjects, you'll have people who will just be inclined to fall prey to whatever shadows are created by shadow puppet tiers. who damage devices? the nasty, that's all, but that's all by design is we all the general internal data and lady. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on leadership decline. stay with our to the the welcome back to the prospect where all things are considered. i'm peter,

to build your mind. you were discussing leadership decline, the pace, go back to garland, garland. and the last sentence of my introduction to this program is i said that then when there is a, a vacuum, others will fill it. there is a leadership vacuum in the world and we see a number or a number of countries, a number of organizations that are beginning to feel that vacuum. and i think 1st and foremost, at our minds of south africa is brief to the regarding israel's ongoing genocide. here in south ask us stepped up and i think we all should be very proud of it. okay . i wish arab countries would be part of that brief, but will hopefully get there one day. but this is a challenge to western leadership. all of the things of the wes claim that they gave to the world and maybe to some degree and still, you know, freedom of speech due process assembly all the in a religion,

freedom of religion. they're turning their back on all of them. and remarkably, the post colonial world is picking up the baton slowly, but surely, garland, you know, i would take a different position. i would argue that the, what, what we've had in the, in the, in the us in power for many years is the illusion of these things. the illusion of democracy. i mean, if you put a bullet in the head of the president, and then the next guy who's going to win in 68, you put a bullet in his head. that's not democracy. if you look at what has happened to bernie sanders in 20162020. so what we've been dealing with for years is the illusion of democracy. the illusion of a foundation of reality and, and principles. when we've always had the rules based international order, you know, of our, if a junior recently and a speech said that he understood or at least supported the tapping of um m l cage of martin luther king's phone because he may have had a communist and it circles, well,

the reality is in the various political views are protected by the constitution. so that would be a violation of the constitution, whether you like any ideology or not. the constitution says you can practice that ideology as long as you don't attempt to overthrow the government through violent means. so the reality is our k junior base, we said, i understand that here we kind to see that we go by the constitution, wait, wait. but in reality that we don't, this is being exposed now for the world to see and for the people who are brainwashed in the us empire who believe that stuff. well, that's a good point, but i didn't mention democracy when i went down my bucket list here, but i, i get your point, i get your point in a mark, right? you know what, what, let's, let's continue with what, why or why not just say it's really interesting the illusion of democracy. i, i'm not gonna argue to strenuously against what he had to say, but i would add that there is a growing him is a ration of people when we, when we see this illusion, you know, be with the mass coming off you, we see more them is a ration and as long as you can keep up the illusion of what garland had to say,

fair enough, things can go along, but when that illusion is being shattered, that's when you're in trouble. oh absolutely, and we've seen this happen slowly but surely over the years and now speeding up where people have no security in their personal lives for decades, the minimum wage hasn't gone up. real wages haven't gone up at all. uh, the little bit of stimulus, uh, health, just poof, it disappeared bite and came into office. brag about that. he was gonna cut child poverty and half, which was a great exaggeration. but all those problems are just gone. and people are not supposed to notice. so what are we told? well people just are stupid, they don't understand inflation has gone down, they're really doing better. they're just too dumb to know it as if your bill at the grocery store is lying to you. so i think that's absolutely true. the

reservation of the people that's part of the issue, this illusion of democracy we'd, we talked about the israel biden is circumventing congress to give israel more weapons and more money. there isn't even a they don't even see the need to keep up the pretense. so all of these things, the misery ration, the lack of democratic policies, in fact, the way people are being treated by those who are governing them, all of it shows um this illusion of democracy and the veil has been lifted. yeah. but matthew, everything that we have talked about him is a ration here, the democracy deposition, the leadership deficit. but we're all asked only one question. do you condemn us? see how they do it? that's it. it's a did it. that's what they do. it's test change to the subject. okay? so, and, and that's, that's what's really frustrating. and that's why i'm glad to have this platform is

to be able to point these very simple things out. they want us to talk about things that they want to talk about. i don't want to talk about those say, i want to talk about what affects me in my community and people around me that i care about, matthew? yeah, it's always the same trope, are you with us or with a terrorist, just try you. you get people to just be me, is very controlled, control the dialectics that, that are completely fraudulent. the, the real solution is why would, why did the c, i a create ok to begin with in the seventy's. what, why is that? why they continued to use different radical islamic groups as ponds for the west to destabilize governments that we don't like that are looking at perhaps a little bit too much for their own people are not playing by the so called rules of the game, or the rules based order that is supposed to keep them set traps for some western rapacious operation. so we're not asking those questions. i think today's 2022 years later after we acquiesced to the cost points of 911 of the given this type of false opposition. i think a lot of people have woken up to the fact that we were lied to drastically and criminally to get a security surveillance de dragnet and

a new age are forever worse than the stabilize governments that we don't like that's led to the current situation. so i think that there's a lot, many fewer people who are believing necessarily this type of false dialectic, but they're trying it again as an, as a formula that, that's been done since ancient times. yeah. you know, you know, you know, garland, you know, why does the united states have to fight israel's enemies? and it means that the united states and israel actually created in the 1st place here. i mean, before we started our recording here, you pointed out to me, i said, happy new year to you and you said, yeah, we have another war. me. why use the united states is incumbent upon the united states to fight other countries on the behalf of a country that doesn't quote, really actually does not share our values. i say that ironically, go ahead. garland. well, i would argue that israel is an imperial military outpost in the, in the middle east, that all of that will, is there in the united states. me, i mean, alexander hate referred to israel as the, as you know,

are on single aircraft carrier. and what is an aircraft carrier use for? it's used to project the military power from the empire r f t junior, also referred to it. so they don't see israel as actually as a country. they see it as a political tool is really using american bombs, american ships, american money, american, everything. so it is, as i've said, often go often times before us, when a criminal uh comes to the scene of the crime, he puts on a gloves. so we won't leave his fingerprints, there is really, is a glove right now, so the us empire can do it to dirt in the middle east. and it can, you didn't least have some, although implausible argument that it's not us gets these real bits over us. really wasn't, but that's, that's a message for cable and the broad seats and all that margaret, the whole world knows who's behind what's going on and gaza. sure, these riley's may pull the trigger, but all the bombs came from the united states. everybody knows that now. okay, except for people in the west, particularly in the united states,

margaret as well. i think the people know uh but the, the so called leadership uh, promote this uh, this lie which is so obviously a lie. and that's one of the reasons that there's a lack of legitimacy. you have this state that is uh, carrying out these facts. you have the corporate and media, we have to talk about them. all they do is cover for the bible administration, the new york times the washington post are worthless if you really want to know what is going on in the world. so we have this elite group controlling things lying to the people who know that things are wrong. that's why there are thousands of people out in the streets, protesting against what the u. s. is doing. and i, i actually blamed by more than anyone for what is happening and god, so he's the one person who could stop it. he's the one person who's bad judgment

lead to this escalation. and the people are well aware of it. and that's why he has an approval rating in the basement. but matthew, there's, i don't see any change, of course here. i guess that's what is so maddening. what is we all watch this a play out in real time. we can actually watch a genocide in real time. i still can't get my head around that here, but there seems to be no, no, no one in power that is willing to change gears. what they'll do is just change the slogan, which doesn't change anything on the ground. matthew, you know, its heart wrenching and just seeing how the, the fuel was being just artificially poured onto the fire, which we could see so easily turning into. i mean, it's already 25000 people have, have the civilians have died or already and thank god you have little things. south africa is taking a creative stand. it's, it is forcing a discussion into play society that's not supposed to happen and that's good. but still, how easy would it be to cut off the fuel for misfire by simply saying, as we should have said, do you agree? no more funding, we won't provide the weapons, we won't do that. and it, we,

it would, it would resolve itself if they, if there was a will. but there is, there doesn't seem to be a will from any of those who are operating within core doors of power within the west. that could do something about this at this point, so it's very demoralizing. yeah, it's demoralizing. it'll, garland, i don't know how many times that clown, but i'm blinking has been to the middle east, like i said, 4 or 5 times. now i'm on his de escalation tour. what does happen? it? only escalation has happened. is that intentional? yes, because i mean the de escalation to or in fact, one of the last times tony blinking went to the middle east. he said, we're going there to de escalate. he got on his plane and while he was in the air flying home, the united states attacked him. and so pretty much we learned that it's tony blinking says, you know, go right, you should go left if he says they mean you know, up, you really means down. tony blinking in the by the administration are people who are not trusted by anyone in the world. they are not capable of making a deal and,

and going along with it. they don't have the moral foundation to keep their word, nor do they have the inclination to keep their word. these people are, are, are psycho past in my opinion. you know, margaret, i want to visualize something uh anthony, blinking in a orange jumpsuit. does that, does that warm your heart just add to the blinking ed biden and yahoo and european leaders and some of biden's predecessors? yes, it does because of these war crimes apply to them. they always get some strong man in africa or some place to bring before the i c c. but all of these people in charge of the so called rules, rules based order should be in the dock in the hague as well. okay, matthew, last 40 seconds. go to you, my friend. well, we're, we're definitely living through historic moment right now. and i, i think that a, the weight of this, this potential is issued. we do have a multiple or lines. there is another destiny that is possible for us to, to take part in. but at the same time, the, the danger of a potential total annihilation is, is a real one to so we have to,

i can just be present, can be aware that the futures under determine. and there could be a livable, dignified future that we said before, that is certain such an amazing point to end on. there are alternatives out there this we and we can do that and it's only going to be people like ourselves that can make that alternative possible. just never stopped talking and never let anyone shut us up as all the time we have. i want to thank my guessing, watching the new york end in montreal, and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. are to see you next time. remember, trust the

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tutorial on both the we are the russian hill, 7 to 6 plane crash side fields around me is this post with metal fragments. lots actually parts of the clean human bodies and lot exclusive for tate here on our t as we get 1st access to the military transport plane price site. which moscow labels the tower tied by a kid by the plane was carrying 6 to 5 ukrainian present as of war for a swamped with russia. russia as foreign minister, sir, do you live with all the holes of practice come friends, ave you? and he takes a marquee for shooting down the russian. busy again, packed with b o w use and that's where i said to be returning to you frame