hello and welcome to cross software. all things are considered non peter lavelle. nato is ukraine. narrative is like the passage of seasons ever changing. we witness, as long as it takes to today's, just the void to feed the binding ministration knows victory over russia is a dead, and now it is satisfied with the slow destruction of ukraine. the process of being ukraine. i'm joined by my guess, wilmer leon in washington. he's a political scientists, author and a radio talk show host in florida. we have craig positive drug to a. he is co hosted the convo couch, and here in moscow, everyone's favorite. we have dmitri bobby, and she is a political analyst and editor. it interests me. internet media project, right? tell them in cross up roles and the fact that music and jump any time you want. and i always appreciate boss. so let me go to you 1st in florida, you and you got up early for this program. so it said that our guest in washington appreciate it very much. in my introduction, we discussed, you know,

the change in narrative to as long as it takes and i'll use my words, interpreting the administration to now to is to avoid him defeat. so if they're avoiding defeat, that means they can't win. so why did they continue? can you explain the logic to me? oh, and by the way, it's going to be very expensive to continue this senseless war that never should have started in the 1st place. go ahead as well when you talk about it's gonna be very expensive. i think that gives you the answer right there. it's who's going to make the money. it might be a loss for ukraine because they've lost so many soldiers. and so many wives, what a half a 1000000 now i think the average age of the front of the line. so we'll get 43 years old. but who really one and that is the deep state, the military industrial complex. sure. this wasn't as long of a war when it ends as afghanistan was, but it's going to be a high intensity what, where a lot of hardware went over very quickly. so, you know, i think that somebody did went in this whole situation and it was the military

industrial complex and they will just simply just do what they normally do. uh, just use the main stream media to kind of give you a little, you know, uh condolences to you know, or ukraine who far brush or the big, bad, bare and stuff. but peter, i do think that they're holding that the bank upside down and, and jostling for just one more coin thing. they can get one more page. they added this whole thing by typing it to border security. so, you know, look for the united states and so press hard on this even though it's not a popular one with a lot of people. i still think you'll see the bite in the ministration. get one or pay day out of this, which just tells you who won the military industrial, complex, wilma, and a in washington. i mean, obviously this is tied to the election cycle. i mean, there's a, a, a flurry of articles to actually kind of build this. and if the, if the advent of a trump presidency, what does it come to pass? they want to make sure that they can get to, you know, more than one year than they like. i may be 4 or 5 years on an annual basis. i mean

they, they really want to build it into the budget here, which i doubt to be able to succeed in doing. but it's really just for binding to avoid humiliation at the polls. not that he has a doesn't have other problems to worry about. go ahead and washington, well, if joe bide is able to make it that far, that that's still up in the air yet to be determined. there's also the rush of phobia and aspect of this, i think by continuing this conflict that enables the democrats to still talk about donald trump is vladimir putin, his best friend. and in, in the, in, in the west, of course we, we can't have anything along those lines. and interestingly enough, up for russian foreign secretary lab, rob, uh, it was reported in test, was talking about where the u. s. provided weapons are showing up outside of ukraine. they have, they are showing up in finland,

they're showing up in sweden. they are showing up in gaza. and this is a conversation that this is not a new revelation because there were discussions a months ago that a lot of these weapons were showing up in african countries. so this really seems to be a money laundering scheme. it seems to be a weapons dissemination, steam. and i think also there are a number of weapons manufacturers that were really angry at joe by and for getting out of afghanistan, what they consider to be early. so this is a way of continuing to funnel money to those weapons manufacturers such as lockheed martin and boeing and raytheon who were making money hand over fist in afghanistan. this is a way of continuing to uh to, to keep that gravy train running. it will demo and we've heard from our 1st to guess here. i mean, there's nothing i disagree with what you're saying. but the problem with it,

with all of this is what about the ukrainians? i mean, the calculations who we've heard here have nothing to do with the wellbeing of that country and it's people demo as well. i think it was, they have nothing to do with a well being or america else, or in general, people usually nasal countries. and let's see what kind of problems we've had a problem. naples general separately, you have a stock number, you know, these we, if you were to, by the, by the us of the time it was trying the why the town reaction to see school. i was all right. well, uh mr. stone, dick is the handle major. she doesn't have anything to do with dialogue, always trying to use a different area. right. but she's most concerned, you know, so, i mean i, it really is a, with both of our guests that there is a lot of private interest in both. most people for me is bureaucracy. how does

bureaucracy work in the west right now? uh, he does not reduce the results. you know, the english no, to save money will save bias or make people's lives better. they used to make an impression and to make an alpha for us, right. of a 2nd. uh, you know, with the, you will never say anything pretty clean, correct is repeat the same price. and you always say, you know, you get your price, salary, things may be going to the dogs, you know what, you really do, what you want to be paid. you know, you will keep your go. so we have the same uh, the same all the way years things from them. you know, they compare rush hallmark, you know, uh by the mazda of the same goals. and do you know of the images you did to the, i'm sure you heard this now. good from nikki haley. they'd be on october 7th. what happened because it was hooton's birthday. i mean, wow,

this is the extent of their, of their intellectual proud this. so let's go back to our guessing and you know, i'm sorry, he's got to go to craig and in florida here, you know, i'm deem a brought up democracy. well i, as we speak right now, hungry is in the dock as it were, with the e. u. intake basically want to take away its voting rights because it doesn't want to waste money on ukraine and essentially, and then the financial times had an expensive article on it is, this is blackmail. so they will, they, they want to subvert democracy within the e. u. 2 prob, a pop up a pretend democracy in ukraine. can you explain that to me? yeah, i have a hard time explaining that, but anything's possible at this point. i mean, nancy pelosi over here in the united states. one is saying that those 2 were calling for a cease fire taking a message that word from vladimir pool for crying out loud. you know what i think those in ukraine who play the boys and game wrong will not only that war, but they'll lose their head. it's like the old kissinger saying,

right to be america's enemies dangerous between americans. right. and it's fatal. but, you know, i think that eventually you'll see a lot of people in the ukraine, whoever's less than ukraine, whoever does web standing that is will eventually pivot to the reconstruction of what's left over there. you can already see black rock and vanguard, putting their steak in the ground and grabbing a property left in right. but what i'm interested is right now was what happens with the russian federation. you know, how much slack are they going to give the new ukranian government, whatever that is, and whoever that is, when they come into power, it seems that when biting got back into power, you saw the whole language, the whole rhetoric of the russian federation, kind of changed even a lot of rob saying, i think it will be not beneficial for you to get involved in the black sea. so i'm looking at what's going to happen as far as the russian federation. i know they don't like to participate so much in regina change and you know, like the and then they added states as a religion. but i think you'll see the russians get

a little bit more involved with the permit that's coming in because you probably know. so you bring up such a good point, you know, and it's something that i tried re, a reminder, our viewers, we look at, essentially in this program. we look at western narratives about this conflict in ukraine. and let me go to wilmer, a in washington. there's one element of the, of the conversation that is never added as a well, what are the russians actually think about all of this? it's never considered whatsoever. the reason why i'm mentioning it is that, yeah, pasta is right. richard will have a very strong interest in who is in ruling in care of and ruling as opposed to the governing. because it's, you know, what we have right now is we're going to have what i think before that happens to be a civil war inside of ukraine playing the blame game. go ahead and washington as well . i don't think it's as much of a concern of, of the who as it is in terms of the what and what i mean by the, what is the audiology, that those that will wind up coming into power are presenting. because if we go

back to russia's stated interest in this entire conflict in getting involved in a conflict in the 1st place, it was, it was 2 d knots of fi ukraine. and to see to it that nato, that ukraine does not become a, a, a part of nato. so now what i think is, is i think those issues are still at the top of the, of the list. and so i don't think it's a matter of who as it is a matter of what is being articulated and which, which is interesting when also i think when you add the finland in nato aspect of this, with the border between finland and, and in that long border between finland and russia and finland now becoming the new proxy here. and hopefully, you know, what we're seeing play as played out in ukraine will not make its way there the

united states. well, i then try to start it somewhere else. well, i think defense, you know, maybe they're not too many people alive, but be the, it's seared into their memory the last time they took on the russians and it didn't work out very well for them. you know? yeah, but it's not work it out of your grand either the united states, outside of doing that can not disagree. there is no learning curve here, but the most, this is very convenient for nato because russia will still be the enemy for them no matter what happens, whatever outcome there isn't ukraine to oh, well, you're right. and well, it was very right. like you reminded us, you know, the to needs all the special needs it 3 because she does it all in russia. dns are fine, right. and you didn't get a prize. you not only to prevent your brain from department and they told me, i don't know who it was that you really, what's becoming a nature around. but the fact don't know, that's why force has to be used. you know,

good news papers was to use because there was already a kind of you know, sense which was in fact a range of community ways. all the, all the blacks. there were several occasions where americans had what they bought, premium samples, with all of those codes. what if he's not going to be your base domain? so russia based together won't be boss who paid was becoming and in the same story about, you know, this, we didn't check the west of breast never goes over meaning to exercises on the baltic sea, even air, you know, all the codes. but roger wasn't, they give you, i'm going to finish a sweet spot between 2014, and that's all okay. my have to jump in here. we have to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the plane steak without the

the russian states never is as tight as i'm one of the most sense community. best of all sense and up the, in the system must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will fan in the european union, the kremlin, move the machine, the state on the rush to day and split the ortiz full neck, even our video agency,

roughly all the band on youtube, the fitness center for the question, did you say stephen twist, which is the welcome next across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle dry and you were discussing ukraine. the hey, let's go back to pasta in florida. obviously the, the new strategy. and it looks like now at least up until the election and maybe the rise of the rationale for the additional age. 61000000000 or so is new security commitments in low of wanting to take we take last territory. so i'm not really

sure how that supposed to work. i think it's kind of a substitute and it is an excuse to give money here because essentially it's so easy to create and going to give up these territories. if it's not going to retake the territories and why doesn't they make peace? why this and they ask for a cease by, i mean, you know, these are these new security arrangements which were done in the u. k. did it last month, the us as replicating it right now, that doesn't solve rushes security problems. i don't know what's in their minds, it just perpetuating the same problem. and that problem ended up in an arm conflict pasta to. well i think that the russian federation understands that the ukrainians and not really wanting to show over here, they're just listening to whatever the west says. so they just go along with it as long as they can. but peter, as to what to point out as the you know, d my and dr. when we were talking about the stakes and what was going on, let's not also forget that there were over a dozen bio labs in which the russian federation took out immediately as the action

started. so that also raises the whole space here. as far as how, how the russians will react and moving forward. but also to when it comes to the main stream media in united states, they're not talking about ukraine. i mean, never. and that's why i continue to say that i think that they will eventually get this money over here, because so many people in the united states, especially the populace, right? are so much concentrated on board or on the border itself. so they're gonna find a way to wrap up some more money, some wandering cash with the border, and eventually these republicans will for why? because the mean, because the populace in the, in the mainstream media, they don't give a damn. as far as you know, what goes on and ukraine, they're oblivious to it. and so with the people. so that's why i think we'll find more funding going uh, you know, to ukraine and that's going to happen. so i mean, as far as strategy is concerned, i don't think you can make any sense of it whatsoever. i mean, the russians are just waiting this out. we knew technically from the beginning they had no chance of losing. but i think we have to define what winning and losing is

to really get a grasp on what's going on over there. yeah, well that's why i said i did this, i'm calling this pro a program avoiding defeat. i mean, what they did, they want to starve off the feed because they know victory is illusory. but that's not solving the problem there. wilmer with them. if i go back to you in, in washington, i've looked at some of these border negotiations. i don't know what these republicans are talking about, that those are not real negotiations. that is just a way to get money and money laundering through because it's not that's not border control. i don't know how you feel about this emigration issue here. but these republicans, this they're, they're essentially lying to their public saying that as a deal in play and then blaming it on trump for goodness, like he's not even in office here. i tend to agree with what processing is that they're going to find a way to get the money, even if i have to fudge the border, go ahead in washington. well, the border discussion has never really been an honest discussion in terms of trying

to solve the problem. have any of these issues ever been, honestly, just got since a game. so because, for example, a lot of the data that they're using in terms of all, now there is this incredible increase in immigrants crossing the border. well, they don't talk about the fact that the manner of, of, of, of, of border protection and arrest has a, they've changed their processes. and since they've changed their processes, that has resulted in more arrests, that doesn't necessarily mean that there is this dramatic influx of people trying across the border. they don't talk about us policy in latin america. they don't talk about the impact that american economic policy is had on decimating the economies. i say in these countries which are forcing people, they're not talking about us policy and haiti, which is forcing haitians to try to find a better life. so it's never been an honest discussion, it's never been

a serious problem. this is really just more blather and blabber for the sake of the election. and they're playing into the uh, what trump, the, one of the cards the trump was playing in the last selection. anti immigrants sent them in racism and in and xenophobia fear of the other. so whether it's russian phobia or whether it's 0 phobia as it relates to just a whole cadre of immigrants trying to come into the united states, it doesn't really matter or, or maybe we're just not work well. or maybe we can talk on some common ground here . it's just another way to spend taxpayers money. it's just another way to print money and someone somewhere will claim a political victory. and i have, i have an idea, go ahead, listed as homeless. this is on it. is on a historic right, so you did state the import. there are a number of things that could, that were us tax payer dollars could be spent that would benefit americans as

opposed to lockheed martin, boeing and raytheon. well, those are they all, you know, they base is, you know, the get closer, we would, we don't have money for that, but there was no money for that. there's not, you know, that's what we, they always say. but there's always money for, for israel, ukraine, etc. dma again, you know, when i look at the, the, the coverage from so called the think tanks that don't seem to think very much is that they don't take into account rushes ames and they've already been aired on this program here. the knots vacation and demilitarization. that's the vector which they have to understand how russia will react to anything that any initiative that the us is a you craig's primary back or we'll push demo. you're absolutely right. that the right of all these think that so we, they will go like that's who you are. absolutely right. and then the senior moment. oh, you know,

you mentioned kind of gary thursday and this number 6 i'm going to give would be the financial times. it's. it's a very bad president. it's b d u o c o that uh we will thank you poor. i'm gary is because you don't submit, we will wake up coordination. we will degrade the standards will crash your economy . you know, basically essentially a dma. essentially what they want to do is they want hungry. they look like ukraine . i thought you know that it was supposed to be the demonstration of a bank or ukraine would look like the you, but no way want to turn hungry into your credit and keep going the amount. exactly . i mean, we have been told that the you gary g believe instead of this, always population that if you are a member of the, you know, guarantee that you will leave a decent lifestyle, you know, and now we see, you know, you use something very different. you know, these are people who hires you for doing something wrong with disagree. your in

those, those will go, don't write. again, i just was told them that, you know, we talked about us money for, for greenforest community for this is just a little bit said that it was a very good deal, you know, invest just in your opinion on was why, because i cool. we have been able to destroy and degrade the russian army substantially. oh, nice. you know, you spend hundreds of thousands of wives of degree just, you know, the deal russians and now you sell it to the american. probably go see this isn't going to be stupid because as the some people seem to think that students are always smart no, soon as you can be very stupid. and again, you know, how does this bureau because you work. just don't say the wrong things haven't would be they, they think your mobile friendly, warm, installed use. otherwise, you can say very simple things. you can say i'm, it's nice that to be cute, sort of people. it's nice that we're going to be on hold and get yourself. i want

to make some for so, i mean it's, it's a real oh, you know, indian always do. and, and this and misery ration here past that isn't really incredible. it just simply incredible to me. we have the you meeting there, they're going to try and they're going to put a lot of pressure on victor audubon to go along with them. i don't think he will in the end, but at the same time, in the mean this gathering of, of, uh, uh, countries in the u. they're talking about a, a long term of 50000000000 euro program for ukraine. what about the, the continents? farmers, haven't they noticed what kind of move they're in all, all across the continent, in france and germany in poland, etc. but they have money for ukraine. they shows you how disconnected these people are as well. it also tells you, you know, how much you know, how previously they also think that they're going to get away with this at the end

of the day. but i mean, nobody's ever held accountable. you know, it's for the figure. they just, you know, we have a saying over here at the united states of the major, right? they'll just eventually forget it. no it onto something else. so i think in europe they think they're going to do the same thing. maybe they'll start in another world war or something, get taiwan involved, and people will automatically forget about what's going on. you know, it's crazy peter. the other day, i was watching the new hampshire primary. and there was an nikki haley supporter that said that he, he was supporting nikki haley. he boated providing because he refused to vote for trump in the last election. he's supporting mickey healey because mickey, he's one of our biggest issues is the ukraine war. i mean it's, they're demented over here. so i think the people in europe, the leaders in europe, the ruling class think they can do the same thing they do in the united states. just pivot to something else. and they'll forget about what happened yesterday. and they'll concentrate and what's in front of them tomorrow. wilmer, what kind of role do you think the ukraine will play in the upcoming election?

obviously, we're all aware of what's going on in gaza, and unfortunately that's not going to be resolved anytime soon. the, the share mystery of watching anything, and we're all culpable. we're all witnesses. it's really degrading morally for all of us. but we're talking about you crate on this program despite and just want to pivot or does he want to just pay up and hopefully like processing no one's really going to notice. go ahead in washington. yes, i think that ukraine is going to play a smaller in smaller role as it relates to the narrative of the 2024 election because it is a lost cause. yeah. but it's vitamins war isn't it? i mean, then you know it does. he have to own up to it. go ahead, do go. well, we're going to see really that's a very good point because i think the donald trump, once he gets on the camp, once he gets out of court and gets on the campaign trail,

he will start to raise the issue of ukraine because it is trumps. because it is by this war, and it is a loss and he will be able to point to that. and so you see, i couldn't solve this in a day. i could have picked up the telephone talk to vladimir boot, and then we couldn't solve the whole problem. but now the united states has wasted all of this money, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. it'll be very interesting to see whether or not the main stream picks up on that trump narrative. uh, and, and shift its focus away. why wouldn't you know where, where we have prosody. when does that to what's happening? what was happening? what we have now, is it blinking, saying, you know, rush is already lost, but if they've already lost, why do you need $60000000.00? i'm sorry to ask these kind of questions gentlemen. that's all the time we have. i want to take my guess in florida, washington, and here in moscow. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are the see you next time. remember process the,

[000:00:00;00] the with the end of world war one, the move in for an indian independence from the british empire flared up with renewed vigor of the british responded to the growth of the national liberation movement with arrest and brutal violence. repression caused active resistance. in march 1919 at the call of mahatma gandhi, a peaceful strike began in the country. but the british responded with a new round of violence and far bade the indians to gather more than 4 people.

on the day of the sea bass at t festivals. by a huge crowd of civilians gathered in the center of the city of i'm gonna start in northern india seeing these as outright defiance. general reginald dyer gave the order to open fire on the on arms people. the barbaric execution claimed the lives of at least 379 indians, including 40 children, the youngest of who was 6 weeks old. the indian national congress considered the official figures to be underestimated and announced the death of more than $1000.00 civilians. the well known greatest newspaper, the morning post called dyer, the man who saved india, gave him a sword and 26000 pounds sterling as a token of gratitude for the massacre. the amorous star massacre wind down in

history as one of the most brutal grinds of the british invaders and only escalated the affair. struggle of the indians for liberation from the colonial yoke. the sick offer what? go that you gotta get better. you can go to the hospital. yes. what you need to do to help you say, i mean what, what do you need to walk up to the that our drug addict is going cold. turkey is like going through withdrawals, and a lot of these 12 schools, the withdrawal giving them money were killed. so you just gotta give him the value of it, right? no one goes, no money, not very good, but truly getting worse and worse every year. it has to be done.

the best of the other issue is really good stuff going on. so you on see if this with the fixture. let me check if you need i don't the i vision in the hospital details how is waiting for this guys in civilian clothing killed 3 sleeping palestinians. one is that meeting special treatment for disability? the, the policy, the web presence authority post, the chilling final phone call with the $60.00 go talking 5 because plain families,