the the hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter level. as many predicted israel's on slots on guys is triggering a much larger middle east complex. it appears the united states is willing to fight . israel's regional enemies for is real. this is what joe biden's, blank check underwriting. israel actually means the cross talking palestine and joined by my guess london, new york. he is a legal in media analyst in toronto. we have who not, i se is a professor of sociology at mount royal university in calgary. and in rome we crossed to romano roberto. she is an author and managing editor of the palestine chronicle. right press stop rules in effect,

that means you can jump any time you want and i always appreciate it. let's go to the good professor. first in toronto, i'm calling this program biden's board, a blank check, and that's essentially what we see coming from the administration. we have these hemming and hawing, you know, negotiations with friends can disagree with each other in private. all of this nonsense is verbal, nonsense, actions speak louder than words and i see nothing coming out of the by the administration, but is stopping israel's onslaught on, on gaza and possible regional ambitions. there is no red line. they can't cross. go ahead in toronto. yeah, thank you for having me look in 1986 when buying was a member of the us senate committee on foreign relations. he said very bluntly, the israel didn't exist us, we invented. and he argued at that point, he opposed sales to weapon sales to saudi arabia, because then i quote, the saudis could not become agents of us interest in the birds shipping,

the persian gulf region. it has always viewed israel as in as an investment for us imperial, interested in the region. um and, and it, i mean, over it seems since its founding in 1948, the united states has given israel anywhere between i've seen estimates of a $130000000000.00. i've seen people account for inflation. the saying it's closer to $300000000000.00. now the majority of that money goes to weapons and, and weapons sales. by the way, these relays have to spend the majority of that funding to buy weapons from american defense firms and defense contractors. and so it's basically when he says it's an investment he is, that's the only moment he's telling the truth. he sees it as the largest u. s. military base in the world. and, and as, as a base that serves us imperial, interested in the region. and in the us that has no red lines itself over what israel does, because the us will pursue its goals in the region,

regardless of how much death and destruction that causes to the people of the region. and this is really critical to understate. you know, uh, underlying that the, the us to use israel as an imperial outpost that's, that's the reason for its support. it has nothing to do with democratic values. it has nothing to do with respect for human rights or international law. there's nothing to do with these talking points that saturate our political discourse well in this part, where professor it is, it seems quite obvious to me that you are a regular viewer of this program because that's what i'd say every single week here . let me go to a line or, well i know in light of what we heard from our guest in toronto, um i don't want to be too per box and of here, but it seems to me that buying this put a genocide on the ballot. well, what so fascinating to me is how the narrative is changing every single day and how there was, is up to it in counter programming from a variety of very,

very popular and very important platforms which give a different version of this. i was also worried, learning is that they remember where we were here october. the 7th. the narrative of this um, as max blumenthal causes the texas chainsaw massacre story which has been refuted, i hearken back to one of the greatest lions in american sentiment from the man who shot liberty balance. when the legend becomes fact, print the legend. and what we're seeing is, is this evolving the narrative, which is, brings into mythology, which is now being a butthead by reality. and americans have really, they, they understand the ukraine, the because they hate russia and russo phobia. yeah. yeah. yeah. but a lot of americans are so, you know, explain this again. how is real or this particular area, the world is a, is an actual real threat and watch that story again. and how has the narrative of

october the 7th kind of dwindled? do you see what's happening here? it's like watching birds and memories and you're seeing huge movements of, of themes change. and when it drifts off completely, americans are gonna say, wait a minute, you let us on to something we don't understand. and buying is assuming that people are following along to the music that everybody's on. well, what bird with this? yeah, but the be that the trick there is never to give context. and that's where these people, when did the, the estimate and the, the american administration, these relays in american allies. i don't want to contextualize anything. and it's really remarkable when you will, and when you allow people like our on our, our guest on our program to give the context it is. so i opening for so many people . i didn't know that. okay. i, i actually ramana i was actually in the or after october 7th i was on a pod cast and very smart guy, really

a nice guy. but he didn't even realize that gus was under siege. he didn't know it was being blockaded. see, this is what we have to deal with here. what makes it so difficult to get a what i would say an alternative narrative, but the truth out. go ahead. romano. yes. first of all, of course, and there is a lock from mainstream media to analyze the situation impala and, and then go to the in particular, in general, even prior to october 7. but following october 7, it was very important for the actors involved in this tool for both of the narrative that i agree. it was like a mess and legend and then towards functional. not only for ease law to carry out genocide and acts as we are seeing now, unfortunately for the $118.00 days in a row, but also to be um, do a party to called justification to the actions of the united states. because now

we're seeing, yes, it's true that the united states has in for, in the region. and i totally agree that this is the main reason why the united states has consistently supported as well. so all the year. but what we are witnessing now is that the united states is kind of available to know its own interests in the retail. we have never seen so many actors involved even know, say dr. b, a open the, against the united states. and despite all of this, the united states is still along with is also because of the pro is may not be in the country, the upcoming elections, and so forth. and so on a so of course they needed a validation justification. and the tried to push the clock back to over 20 years ago. they tried to say it's like $911.00 guys. so this is a war on terror. we are completely testified. well,

i think this justification is not working with the current audiences anymore in the west and in the us either. well yeah, if you go back to the professor in toronto, i mean, yeah, i absolutely expect is conflict to expand and 11 on is the, the front and center here. these railings will drag the america. we have to keep it, you know, who wags, who wags the dogs here. this is the problem here because i don't think the buying ministration wants to have the conflict expanding to 11. i'm, but that is real certainly does, since it's not winning in gaza. so if it's not winning and gossip, it will expand the conflict. and of course, you have these ridiculous center, senators, i won't even mention on my program here that they want to not, you know, give it to a ram, say exactly what is real, wants the united states to do go head in toronto. yeah, and it's and yahoo has one to be us to take on their end for a very long time. have us. i don't believe us or even want and all that. we're actually the, or the, even some political, a sort of groups in israel that don't want that all that word but, but israel as

a whole, has moved so far to, to, to the right that they do want like that. there are, there are elements that certainly want that all that were. let me, let me pull out a quote from biting himself recently when asked about the attack on the us based in, in jordan and be a reporter ask them, you know, do you hold a rand responsible for this? and this was his response, and i quote yes and i quote in the sense that there supplying the weapons to the so that, okay, so you're in the meeting, the us is responsible for the genocide of the problems they need because you're supplying israel with the weapons did do that, so you are in the thick of it. you said aircraft carriers immediately to predict israel as they carried out the genocidal operation. high ranking military officials are meeting with these really military military officials on a consistent basis. of course, the people in the region are making the right read that the us is actively involved in this and are responsible for all the acts of genocide that these ratings are

committing. there are just as responsible as these released. and this is the possibility of a wider regional war, is still on the table. i've said this before, it doesn't, it's not every war starts because everybody agrees we what just started a war, you know, war can start and everybody's saying we don't want to war and then it still happens anyway. i'm not predicting it will happen. i'm not saying that it will for sure happens, but it's still a very real possibility on the table. yeah, but, i mean, i think we can, you know, we can extend that argument, lionel. i mean, if, if netanyahu, who wants to save his own political skin here, it's in, it's in his interest to expand the complex evey will do, there's not much spite and can do to stop that. you know, i'm, i was explaining to somebody what i think i try to do and with all due respect, i hope no one takes offense at this. i feel almost like a special ed teacher who understands that my classroom, namely the american people. my fellow americans have learning disabilities. they

live under a 19, uh 60 seventy's delusion that all of our ammunition is just comes out of nowhere that we can beat any, any country at any time. and the people like has below how much the hose these odds are. all of these are primitive spears throwing tribal on whichever risk you have. and why look the item before we go to the break, all the groups you just mentioned there they are. the result of american involvement in the middle east isn't exactly there all reactions to american imperial interest in the middle east supported by israel. that is the facts here never presented in mainstream media or they have to jump in here folks. we have to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion. i'm house, i'm stay with our team, the

hi. i'm rick sanchez and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different little opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do you have the state department to see i a weapons bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. i changed or whatever. you don't want my shell stay main straight because i'm probably going to make you comfortable. my show is called stretching time. but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way you the

in the 1870s. the colonial expansion of the british empire in the nile valley in greece, the british decided to get complete control over sudan. however, the deeply religious people of that country did not want to obey 4 laws. the unceremonious intervention of british officials lives of people's discontent. it's spokesmen was the theologians mohammed of thought. the drug blamed himself the mahdi the design. he began to gather an army against the invaders. by 1884, most of the sudanese cities were in the hands of the modern great britain decided to intervene directly. but the troops of ahmad gave the invaders at drubbing in $1885.00. the rebels. the capital car to the feet of britain was totaled

only by the very end of the 19th century. after the death of ahmad, the british were able to regain their control of sudan. unable to defeat the living body, the british took revenge on the dead one. these remains were drawn out of the mazda liam, and thrown away into the nile. odds had was brought to england as a trophy. however, the victory of the modest revolt became the 1st successful action of the peoples of africa against the colonial afresh. and remained at dark stain on the reputation of the british empire. the welcome act across software. all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. true mind you were discussing palestine the the ok,

let's go back to the in room on another place. and this element in that the main stream media in governments are, are, are peddling all the time is the, the day after i find it. so insulting. what do we deal with? what's going on today? and worry about that later. and of course, the day after never includes any kind of a active role on the part of the palestinians are just objectified like they've been for the last 75 years. so i mean it, for as far as i'm concerned, this is just another a distraction against what's going on in gaza, which is a genocide. go ahead in room. seduce me on the one hand, it has a lot to do with the, the new version. i have had, we were speaking of all it's a while ago. yes. because of course there is this idea that there is no right of self determination. this, this people are so the human eye is that we do not have to agree on the right of

self determination. so we can completely as a colonial power and intuitive power decide on the fate of millions of people. but the problem here is go to, so that is look, if you know, trying to speak about the day after, but not only east east, around the west, in general, the united states, the european countries, speaking about a 2 state solution and a d minutes arrived speed but they have no idea even on how to end these work the the true now. so we are speaking about something that is completely, you know, out of the, or we'll of priorities of the actual priority of here. and you told us not to know how to end the work because of insurance pressures because and when you throw the defense minister, you can access these as an extra potential threat. in this case, i think it's the truth, each other. that is why they're not simply stop the war award. that gets rosie and

the officer say, i'm leaving in this region. and i am, you know, the midst of invincibility, even from the ministry point of view, coordinate points of view has completely east call me the integers now. so if the does not know how to put it on its own existence in the region. and, you know, speaking about the future of cause of a, in this moment without informing such a powerful act or like the policy and resistance, which is now currently leading up, 40 minutes for me. but also politically as talk to you directly. we're seeing at events in the negotiations undergoing and we're seeing that the last one is for with, you know, in the policy number existence, hands, these means something. and despite the fact that you know, the west seems not to be aware of it. like you actually did when paul, to deal with these we already for, for yeah,

they live in this fanciful unicorn world. it's, it's really exhausting covering it. i mean, i do, this is what i do for living, but i believe that's what that's exhausting. an age is me here. let's go back to the professor in toronto. you know, we just romano is talking about the x a central threat to israel. i think it's a good point, but i think we can be more refined in the a b, there's an x, a central type design is a, in the, in design is by the all what g that we've seen in getting worse and more worth more and more radical over the decades, particularly under the present government here, that is under threats. okay. and, and it doesn't know how to move forward, okay. it has no, dear control. it, we, all the reaction do with only with violence because it only believes in deterrence . well, if you're deterrence is in tatters, then you're even more dangerous. that's what i worry about. go ahead and toronto. absolutely. let me just very, very quickly say that the real existential threat right now instead of house being and people who are you? good. yeah. and yeah, yeah, right, yeah, right, okay,

but i got that it got it. yeah. whatever, yeah, i know people agree, but i just want to make that clear. sure. i'm doing an interest. so zionism is a political ideology that was always going to go down the path of, of using violence it's, it's a very simple equation. i won't get into the academic complexities of it. people and palestinians lived on the land. zionism was a project that said, well, we wouldn't different people that live on the land. so we have to remove those people. fortunately off the land because they will never just leave their land. who does, nobody does, nobody just says, oh, i'm gonna leave my home. and so, so it was violence from the 19 early part of the 19 hundreds and, and that violence continues the 20th century into the 21st century minus was inevitably going to get more and more extreme. and, and so this genocidal operation is not the 1st 1948 was the 1st mass explosion of the palestinians and we're, the housing is always called the ongoing could not abide, which means catastrophe. and we're seeing this next phase of mass explosion happening right now. but it's, it was never going to look at it. of course it has produced and it is producing

right now completely devastating consequences that it will take palestinians generation of the hill and but, but it was never going to actually succeed because palestinians, this is their homeland, they're never going to leave it. we can share the homelands, we can make it both of our homelands of, of, you know, i've, i've made this very clear and that in other, in other writing what, what, what, what are the, what a radical i yeah. what a radical idea. my good. have you seen rights for everyone while that's really, you know, that's radical thinking line on the same line of thinking here is that i, i don't know if you heard because it was in the last new cycle that come, our harris had some kind of election event and i don't know why anyone in their right mind would go to such an event, but we'll leave that aside. but to women and had jobs were turned away. so what, what's going on with the, the liberal, tolerant west. ok. i mean, it's just absolutely disgusting. this kind of behavior line. oh, wait. oh it's funny. again, i always represent this i'm, it's like i'm

a traveler in time. i'm dealing with the people here in my country who have no idea of what's going on. and i'm trying my best to, to tell them please, for the love of god. listen to what's going on right now. you know, years ago i'll never forget. there was a, an instance where i think it was karen hughes or somebody from the, from the george bush administration. and she was talking to some, some very wealthy saudi arabian women who wore veils. and she said one day, you know, one day i'm going to have you be able to walk without that veil and drive if you want. and this woman stood up, she says, i have 12 drivers would use all the other teresa this us. and i'll never forget the idea that we are still intellectually landlocked in a time where if i went to times square, which is about 5 blocks from me now, and i said, here's a $1000.00. can anybody even remotely approximate what zionism

means? what is it you? yeah, i'm embarrassed to say people would say i have no idea what you're talking about because we think that there is this place called israel, that is always attacked by these people. call the terrorist who want them obliterated. and if you want to speak up about this, you're, then they change the, the dynamic, and you're an energy semite. you turn it. and right now on college campuses, people who just merely want to express an idea at of all things this, this marketplace are free ideas. they're expelled or can be submitted, but they can be, it can be raises and, and promote d i stuff that's a different story and i am living in this intellectual field and, and they talking deal was like this, this refreshing always is like, i'm not alone. somebody understand what's going on here. i swear to you. i'm on

a desert island. the are my country. yeah. well the that, that is, that will, that is really destroys to live any kind of moral legitimacy. the united states has and the world moving forward. a ramona, i think that you know what you, we've seen, you know, the system. it's just a systematic rape story. we've seen the unrestored business again, slight of hand change the topic, change to the topic. but i think anthony, blinking, i can imagine him in an orange jumpsuit. it is, you know, it's like, it's really incredible to read these mainstream reports about or the, what they call the atrocities on october 7. and then there's always a line towards the end of the article, say no further evidence was provided, even we'd be under a story. so why are you leaving? we've pads piece of meals if you have no evidence and you admitted to that. and then there is, you know, the, the idea of these mainstream and media who is, you know, invincible in its pursuing all the,

to us. but we have seen time and again throughout history how the tooth was constantly manipulated what i am with. and this thing here, and now if the, the new generation to a gives me some hope, berries, etc. and there is a, you know, they're switching to something else. the, you know, the police say of the house or i do not seem to work so well with the new generations. they open 6 tall uh from you know, one gets ready with me and then they see something else. and they're curious about it. and we seem to have tons of race and you know, the day after the scene for campaign from zara the, you know, the, the past and branding the giant. and they went physically to the stores and say, you cannot do this. so this innovation seem less aware, less, you know, sensible as a tool to the, the big tax of the house bar. and despite the fact that is what it is so desperate,

and that's, we reported with the policy and chronicled, they're actually buying artificial intelligence system to try to direct the debate on social media. but, and despite the fact that we know that there is no fee, so basically censorship with some social media, especially with a mess up pack form, which is the biggest as social media platform. but despite all of this, this is not the process on media works. and the, or accusations and allegations do not seem to register with the new generation. and it's happened in the past professor if you're seeing that change of consciousness and generations because, you know, i think of a, the number of times that israel is mode, the grass mowed the lawn as it were. but in this time around, there's so much more awareness, youtube and things like this is really quite extraordinary. during all of this strategy, that is the only little sliver of hope that i see that people are interested in

what's going on. go ahead, professor. yeah, i agree, i've said this before, genocide has consequences. people don't just forget about a man, a man said the perfect word already. yeah, and you said a perfect word earlier, fanciful. the americans and his relays have his fanciful idea that a year after this operation ends, people are going to move on. this is, this is entirely false. people will never forget about this. there are that people's political consciousness of, of the world of politics, of, of the, over their place in history and, and in the activism is being shaped in this moment. and the consequences of that will be felt far and wide for a long time to them. hopefully, uh to, to advance more freedom and liberation for more people are all and you know that we can end on this note here. but i, i was thinking and use what you said their professor years from now people will ask you, what did you do? what did you think, and what did you know? and that will haunt a lot of people and i, and i'm really glad that i have i like everyone can see my stripes on my shoulder.

and i take a lot of blackboard, lady and gentlemen, that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guest in toronto, new york, and in rome. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. and next time, remember across the rules, the russian states never as tight as i'm sort of the most sense community best ingles, all sense and up the in the system must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will then in the european union,

the kremlin mission, the state on the russia through day a s r t exposed next. even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services for stephen twist, which is the last what happened on october? the 2nd was a deal breaker for it was the slaves revolting against the master. when slaves revolt against the legitimate masters, that is not going to be peaceful and it is going to be violent terrorist here, and that will take care, right. and there, there is, there, there,

and just surrounding the entire area of the body became ready for us. you know, they knew we're going to scatter like ship a terrible tragedy and terrible revenge because okay, so i am, i know who the me to come off the the, on the floor, especially though play shall be the good is of being prevented. but it seems to be that we don't want, it needs to be what he wants to do, peoples of the land, to leave in peace and prosperity. is it possible to have peace in this region ever again? the, the,

the, the headlines on how to international vladimir putin says most modern russian weapons are superior to foreign count the pods of the countries defense minister releases the latest numbers on key of taco fields along israel says it's wrapping up its military campaign in a fun unit, so now how that site set on the southern city over a font leading behind a trail of destruction and despair at prescott b o t. one area in west, in northern johnson, was invited by his rating almost at the beginning of the ground operation, with the shortest by the extensive destruction of building springs and infrastructure. and the american defense secretary vows to us, we'll take all the necessary steps to defend itself. they've been coming.