sides, but american power versus a rating and power. and the simple term, it's not a question, but who will pay what cost is a more difficult possible to figure out? and people are suddenly looking to the, by the administration to understand that cost clearly you, uh, you helped expand the harvard kennedy school. clearly from this book you show how do you worked on that but is, and i have to say some of the donors are associated with a back end israel, israel soft power gone. now these pictures are beaming all around the world, let alone the us as of power given to the entire international community is watching as, uh, nature powers back and um, to the teeth. uh, this alleged on the side. well, i wouldn't say it's gone uh, but it has been dated or damaged. oh, i think one of the dangers is uh,

it was defense. secretary lloyd austin, put it uh you can win a battle as lose a war. and now there's into terms of tactical successes of these release. it demonstrates that they have a good deal of capability, but in terms of a soft r and the ability to attract others, i think the disproportionate number of casualties and gaza has indeed damaged their soft power. and washington's soft power in recent years let alone the gaza as well as if it did again. i, i think the american sauce power has been damaged by the disproportionate the killing of civilians in the cause of war. uh, vitamin is plead for the israel east to take a more measured approach,

but it, there still damage to americans. sauce power. on the other hand, if you look at american soft power over the years, it, it goes up and down. i mean, sauce power is the ability to get what you want through attraction, rose and coercion or payment. and there are times in the past where american soft power has been very badly damaged. for example, in the 19 sixty's. there were some protests around the world against the vietnam war, but by the 1980 is the american position where they had recovered some really, i think you see americans soft power damaged. uh, ask for the rock and taishan. uh, but then when obama selected it recovers its damaged again by trump recover somewhat with bite. and uh, so the, the in this can be ascertained by the,

on the public opinion polls. the po, trust, trump, is the jumps leading in those opinion polls. right. so looks like no, no i, i, yeah, no i, that's a question or will it be come back and if he does, that would have a severe negative effect on american soft power. but i meant if you, if you look at public opinion, polls it a company like pew has done asking people, i hate to 27 different countries, whether they found america or china more attractive. basically the americans come out ahead. i think good a is 25 of the 2070 countries. so american soft power goes up and down. it could be dented. on the other hand, in comparative terms, is still relatively strong. yeah, paradoxically, that same view, paul, to said the united states was a big threat. they so the us is the threat of i understand, i mean,

you wrote in 2015 that but global futures is the american century over and you were quite sanguine. you are looking at the idea that actually you look at history and you see people for how to print maturely, predict the end of american. uh oh, sorry, any m ha, whether it be british or any, any of you don't think you're gonna have to revise that off to ukraine. not after you create. i think i revise the different trump is a lift gate in november. i think he will do severe damage to american power, but remember that a lot of countries, sauce power to attractiveness comes from it. civil society not just from is government. government does broadcasting and has policies and those can affect, did detract witness. but um, if a country has a vibrant civil society that attracts others, it's better able to recover,

i think back to mean hot hollywood in science of ours, hollywood in the science, but also things like the civil rights movement in the, in the sixty's, the people were marching in the streets around the world to protest american government policy in c. it. um, but they weren't sending the communist international. they were singing martin luther king's, we shall ever account, which is an anthem from american civil society. so i think in the, in that sense of asking is there resilience and terms of ability recover? i think there's still a good deal resilience in american civil society. may because vietnam speech wasn't broke as is why these guy ever dream is to be true. no, no is go back to this new book. you knew stanley johnson, he was a regular on this program at oxford. and you say in the book you had shocked his son became prime minister. what do you make of evidence that suggests he was sent

to destroy a negotiated ukraine piece made in turkey, or i just, i just don't have any evidence or i the answers, i don't know that i shouldn't speculate what i would. i really agree. yeah, but i mean, having said that in the actual book when it comes to ukraine, and i mentioned this because clearly us sanctions have ad. well, they have the opposite effect. they've the west and the economies of western europe . the global south is a clearly ignoring nature, western europe and the united states views on uh, on what happened in ukraine. but in your book, you pay 345. i think you say i had a meeting at the kennedy school in 2014 economist equal you against the wall inclusion was disillusioned by the west. well, how is the 2014 may, then qu wasn't when we had victoria newland,

and the league phone call saying she was picking up who is gonna run the run the country. i'm just surprised about how you company, ukraine, in this latest bully. you said 3 fourths of pace me for 7 poochie and had agreed to receive virus thoughts named the minutes process. but it was not clear whether it would be worth much as we found in 2022. you know that that means the process is unanimously adopt as un security council resolution 2202. but it didn't prevent the russian storm and fading ukraine. and trying to essentially take over the country of people say this is the result of the americans expanding data or not to conciliate, improved adequately. it's important to read what read of broke about ukraine in before he dated in 2021. he basically doesn't accept ukraine is legitimate, independent state,

and he talks about ru skeet mirror the russian world. and ukraine is part of that and he will control it. and i, it's so in that sense, whatever the merits and the merits of a 2014 and the russian invitation to the don boss and quite a bit, then i think it had more roots in what was going on in keys in the efforts to the of of, of popular demonstration to get rid of a repressive a government, then it did who is with pressure, but pressure, i saw it is thread and invaded. and then the missile process suggested that there could be a point of stability. russia taking what it already had. but in the february of $22.00 poor, besides,

he wanted more than he is dated. and as i am going to just a drew up there, that's not really the case is if you have a picture of yourself with the angle a month, or you have a picture with bank of america in the new book don't here. and you know what? i'm going to, michael said, yes, he said that the mintz process was a delaying tactic. so nato could, um, ukraine, this is about nato expansion is a and i mean, on the food end point about the ukraine that's on the, debated as to whether that's approved in the crying these deals. you know, i think if you look back, you'll see that there was a pretty broad consensus in you haven. they told countries that ukraine was not about to be accepted into nato, a 2008. there was a question of ukraine joining nato. i think that was the other european countries, like britain and france and others were not,

would not have allowed that of. and i think the prove this invasion was a threat to a software country with the countries at the show called global south. or realize that the un charter, which protects countries against the kind of invasion that russia had use in their interest made to see they simply as a european conflict, is a great mistake. the canyon delegation to the united states got this right. quite soon afterwards, they said this is a problem for all of us by population that general assembly resolution, of course, i didn't get them. majority is that those who favored russia's view on these things . and it said, immediately afterwards, there was sanctions on the russian composes the new york valet stores russian literature in the western europe. you think they read your work on soft power and

took a do far with the, with the bizarre, a process of banning all things russian in nature countries. well, i think the idea of going on with business as usual, with russia after russia violated what are the basic norms of the international system that you don't take your neighbors territory by force was an appropriate way of st. signaling that this behavior was unacceptable. i think if you'll look at the details, you'll see that some russian artist and composers and so forth who were willing to distance themselves from. and i'm and check off ski and bush can and does the ascii know i'm talking about temporaries that uh the so there were some artist who said we don't support that. they were

a continued to be in the repertoire. but uh, i mean, you seem to be acting as so or asking questions is so is not guilty of a basic violation of a critical norm since 1945. and i think you're just wrong. professor joseph nile, stop you that more from the form of dean of the harvard kennedy school in all to the new book of life in the american century after this by the

the there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth. is the case for the madness of the people. i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also of soon. this is the 3rd world lunacy re washing press for so the funder line likes to say we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deals to this. let me let me on my

have very quick propaganda. you know, a price gear in your i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. the more questions ask a better. the answer is will be the welcome back to going on the right. now i'm still here with professor joseph night. well, i'm a dean of the harvard kennedy school and what are the new book i liked in the american century present? i, we ended pop one, talking about the norms established off to 1945. of course the russians would say, and i think they are, have been saying in the world cool, that they were trying to protect russian speakers in the east and ukraine. but on the broad a point and even the pressure was in the wrong 2 wrongs wouldn't make a right. your book is full of your new book of uh, of, of, in the side lines, violations of those norm. since 1945 only thing. i mean,

clearly at o, b was, i mean, you go all the way back to vietnam, but the so many violations of any kind of know that any, uh, any, uh, no line country would recognize as being in the you in charge. you would need right now the united states is backing uh, the electric genocide in gaza or in israel set. and these and the acting in any norm establish off the $9045.00 and is indeed in violation of course have so many resolutions indeed there has been violations. but notice that in a book like mine, a life and the american sentry published in the united states, i am able to criticize american violations such as the invasion of iraq in russia. i couldn't do that. and indeed, that being the case is of the fact that the journalists in nato countries are not able to report and join this are allowed from west and media into russia. but you

actually speaking about freedom, you speak, you know, mentioned juliet's on. you mentioned edward snowden in your book, were you shocked by the revelations that i'm going to muckle, as i said, the picture of you and her in the new book, that the national security operators in your country was bugging the chancellor of yours was powerful economy. well i think that was a mistake and i think it's pretty why did recognize now, but it has nothing to do with my reading angle at merkel at a harvard commencement ceremony. but us surprised that that was going on. yeah, i thought that i thought the that the, uh, the people in the, in a say, what does that have more sense than to do that? because it is surprising, given, you invented the terms of how you're credited with that. you know, mentioned julian, this on you, of course, there's a case coming up at the end of february now and he, he exposed so many details of as you would put it,

violations of any known since 1945 and, and all that information is there on the internet for the whole global. so to watch it has huge soft power, like the famous video of the john was being gunned down the rock as well. i means i don't mention julian massage there. many others don't mention on both sides. you've many issues of the editor took out a lot of material from the book and wanted to keep it short. so i did 0 to the question to julian and saw it being in the index. it's kind of irrelevant. i only just man mention it because you mentioned freedom and the freedom to expose more crimes. and in the, in this case, a salt and but said the other day that the more money wasn't given just the lensky view, nato couldn't get to china. well, what do you think he meant by that?

especially in the light of the work you've done, which doesn't seem to show any desire by china. and you met many of our officials over decades to invade west virginia, who are a well it, it, a she gene pain has said that he liked the people's liberation army to be able to re capture type one, which they, regardless renegade province by 2027 and many people who feared that china would indeed try to use force to a unified tie one with china. and after the failure of this invasion in ukraine, many people in china and able to reach you at the station region said this shows that the type of vision that people are feeling

a tie. one would be too risky to experience it if putting sale with the land based evasion are certainly right. thank store. this trying to go a 100 miles over the sea with a sea based conviction is of much higher risk stand of changing paint cares. but more than anything else about his control, the communist party and the company as barbara rhys control of china. a failed invasion of taiwan. this is the biggest risk he could take to face. so i think that's the type of thinking was i don't know what store overhead and mind, but that's the kind of thinking people say that the, what happens in your grade also has an effect on what risks are taking in east asia . i want to go back to china, but you mentioned failure. russia clearly says it's hasn't failed, it has killed loads of nazis and so on. and i mean,

this is the financial times this week. i am after doubles rushes. growth of lucas ukraine was stimulates, economy output in russia to rise impact of western sanctions and out banks post ridgewood prophets. so from russia's perspective, they've strengthened the brick since china. i cooperation, organization of strength and ties with china in the global south countries and their economies booming west and europe's is declining. how is russia losing? well, i think if, if you look at the sanctions, they have a, a different effect on different periods and turn time the mediator affective sections after the evasion or a drop in the value of russian stocks, you know, for the ruble and so forth. and then you have the sanctions have the effective what you might call an incident district or they lead to production at home of the goods

that are deprived from abroad. and a grand rush have benefited from that in the which when i called the medium term, as well as the tech support. so boil, which remains in demand. and then a question for russia and for others is what happens over the long run in the is were media gun. it's true that the russia has had certain benefits strongly into an industry terrace, affects the long run they're depriving themselves from sources of technology in europe. which are going to be essential for their accomplishing what they need to do, which was drawing the 4th industrial resolution. if you look at question, today's 2 thirds of its exports are in oil and gas. and it is not made the kinds of innovations that are needed to really join the information revolution.

question, i think the russians have to ask themselves is if they stay isolated from europe and america, are they going to have to pay it is good to technological future. you can say, well, they'll get that from china, but then they're in the past of becoming a uh, like a satellite of china. my understanding is, yeah, the scholarly papers are now being published increasingly and in bricks, countries over western europe. and as i said, west and your economically seems the why the seem to be in, in decline. you do say in the book that it was wrong of uh, a bomb a to put a red line on chemical weapons in syria. but now we have so much more information about whether a side actually used chemical weapons. why in your book, are you saying? absolutely, he did use chemical weapons when that account is being developed by so many

including the o, b, c, w, with all the weapons section in the air. it's not at the bucking, but there's evidence that the sod did indeed use chemical weapons. so i don't know what you're talking about. so you have never heard any of the evidence. i mean there the so much being written at this moment and you say definitely the biggest problem was syria. way about your as it is, use chemical weapons when when that that's a lot to think the pockets the you can find a lot of arguments on the internet about anything but to the preponderance of evidence from reliable sources is that aside, did the jewish chemical weapons and if you don't believe that, what's the matter with the sources of information you're getting? yeah, i look at all, all the different sources and not just sources that are, say,

nature of nation publications. you say the presidential briefing that's given to joe biden, every day. you talk about how a lot of it could just be in the, in the mainstream, in the new york times, or something that is given to the president and how important uh, information is in the public realm. and there's not that much extra in the in tell you suggest in the book as well as do to give you an example of what's called open source and intelligence, meaning what's uh, in the press, what's on the internet so forth. uh is very important part of what should be in that briefing. uh notches seek prints and uh, in an information age open source is to becoming more, more important. and in that open source intelligence as well in secret intelligence, there's evidence by the international chemical weapons association,

which of unit that comes under the united nations. the other side used chemical weapons. yeah, actually i meant the o, b c, w whistle, but it has come forward since then. but what about the dangers of a feedback loop? then? if things are being leaked to gen, listen, so go mainstream newspapers then that's being fed back to president bible. there's just a feedback loop being created that doesn't allow other pieces of information to come in like say, a zalinski has no hope of this calendar offensive, or i said we'll stay in power despite the american bombing of damascus. well, good intelligence presents alternatives, and the alternatives can do the pricing that we are alternatives should centrally as what's in the open source, what's in the secret sources, and have you weighed them in terms of the profit abilities of the alternative

explanations and scenarios in that sites the open source helps you with meeting the, the mainstream press. how to check against some of the things that are in your secret sources. but not if uh, if i know you quote the chomsky in your 2015 book. if uh, if the drums get an idea about manufacturing consent to holds true, just finally, if trump bug gets in, which he looks at to get in, whether it's from jail or whatever, he suddenly writing, i'm the, and the american people want them to be president according to opinion polls, how do you expect them to in nature and what does that mean for the united states as well? first, i think it's not at all clear. the trump is going to get in the polls that one sees at this time are to some extent, not a good indication of the outcomes november. most people don't really pay attention to elections until after labor day, which is in september. so i don't,

i don't think that some of these early polls are accurate in terms of assessing whether trump or but when in, in the november it's, i don't think the trump is go to come back. but if i'm wrong and trump does come back, i think it will have a negative effect on american alliances and american sauce power in like manner include, we can you give nate to bassinet is passed a resolution st in that crowd for any president cannot withdraw from data without consent of the senate, but he could simply refuse to uh to spend money, which was it is within his progress with that of course would have a severe damage present. i thank you. thank you. and that's it for the show of

continued condolences to those surviving beginning in gaza. the new book, a life in the american century, is that now will be back on monday, with a former leading contender to be president of ecuador, now supporting his reyland, sending weapons to zaleski and ukraine, after betraying julius on. just political asylum until then. keep in touch firewall, that social media of itself tends to do a country and have to our channel going on, are going to be a normal. don't come to watch new and old episodes of going underground team and the on the, on the

i have to guess the president savanski himself is basically delusion. and that he has become drunk with his own rhetoric as well as flats or visa to use to receive from the rest. i think this is really to range to me, it is a bit disturbed. his relationship to reality is true about everyone around 2 icons . imagine the

nice to you for people are reportedly kills out to us as pride, rain down on target in syria and iraq to use for and for us to cheap says the situation in the middle east milestones, acetate, critical junction. these, these are all you that, that kind of slow to see if i can see the effect. any doc, if i can do it. right. see, there's a domino. a domino effect is the red process as one of his walkers has been killed along with 3 civilians. and is ready to shutting off the southern dawson city of upon unit and the.